Btw, I am a huge Paprika freak - if you are into these things I can recommend the best paprika in the world: La Chinata.
It is made here in Spain in limited quantities and is oak-smoked...you can get in hot or sweet versions but the thing about it is that is the first spice in the world to achieve coveted DOC status....it really is that good.
Imo, if one is serious about cooking Mediterenean food this is an essential...
That paprika looks wonderful!!
I may have seen it in stock at one of the local stores here called central market. I might have to get a canister of it.
I think more Americans should be more European....
I see many Americans romanticize a French or Italian or whatever lifestyle, but they are really not anything like my cohorts from those countries when it comes to core lifestyle values and philosophy.
I see many Americans romanticize a French or Italian or whatever lifestyle, but they are really not anything like my cohorts from those countries when it comes to core lifestyle values and philosophy.
I always think people should let others make up their own minds regarding their opinions.
I love many parts of the US but I would have to take out a jumbo loan on a home to live there and I am happy living in a paid for home here in Texas. What I try to do is bring elements of places I love back home and appreciate them in my day to day. Call me what you want but I am happy with my appreciation for other cultures as well as certain local cultures within the US. I am just not simply content with my local flavor if you will as it can get old like any one thing can get old after a while hence I incorporate many flavors into my life.
Fellows
That's fair Fellows. I have been fortunate to live my life in a very international work place and I have really enjoyed it. I suspect you see many more Americans each that than do I
I always think people should let others make up their own minds regarding their opinions.
Fellows
Don't mix finding a behavior humorous with not approving of it. Just about everyone we send to France or Spain or Italy comes back sure that they have found their true identity. It's funny, but I get it. In many ways we have a colder lifestyle here in the US. We have gutted our local businesses for suburban malls and abandoned our local proprietors for national chains. Many live in impersonal subdivision where you can’t even get a newspaper without driving.
So I just got my first enamelled cast iron piece of cookware from Le Creuset made in the northern French town of Fresnoy-Le-Grand. It is their signature "flame" color and I love it. A 4.5 qt round "french oven" or dutch oven as others call them.
Congratulations.
The Le Creuset dutch oven is one of the world's perfect things.
It is virtually impossible to ruin food in it, and it can cook many things better than anything else. Despite numerous attempts to reverse engineer it, nothing compares - except for pots costing even more.
The closest knock-off was from a company just on the other side of the border with Belgium, I believe, with a production process almost identical. Wasn't as good and went out of business.
A Le Creuset pot substitutes for - and outperforms - many other pots.
Anyone who eats would be wise to buy one. It has a lifetime warranty, and over time will save your culinary ass again and again. It is the best kichen investment you can make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz
mmmmm.... that's not my point, though. There are people dying of starvation in this world and somehow I needed a $285 saucepan?
That's nasty, petty, and wrong. One good Le Creuset can save money on food, other pots, energy (cooks at lower temperatures) and help you eat well which everyone, even all those people dying of starvation, want. There is no link between a good kitchen pot and altruism, except that your response to his good kitchen pot was the opposite of altruistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz
My point -- one more time -- is that Americans tend to get caught up some fairly bourgeois, if not downright effete buying habits, and that needn't be if people were focused solely on what was necessary to do the job.
As to what I have done for poor people, I give, not loan, roughly 3-4% of my yearly gross to poor. That doesn't include the 10% of my gross that I give, not loan, to various Church and nonprofit entities.
You insult him and brag about your charity in what is likely the most condescending statement ever posted on the internet. If you are involved in charity, bragging about it sullies it. Do it out of the goodness of your heart, and not to brag about. And such condescension... all because he bought a decent pot. Yay for him! Boo for you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz
Go kick the cat or something, we're just talking here. Peace!
Do not kick the cat! I am a cat and I do not like getting kicked!
Peace yourself! Do you know how yucky you sound in this thread? He's friendly you're yucky. You should go out and buy a nice pot and be less yucky. I recommend Le Creuset as a sensible choice. Eat well, be happy, do good things, and please, don't kick the cat!
Not meaning to get personal with Fellowship, which I don't think was actually in dispute; when I read his initial post he mentioned something to the effect that he felt "more French than American," then went into painful detail about his purchase.
The first thing that came to my mind, was Americans trying to buy themselves some European sophistication -- we'll leave the empathy-deprived, gauche, "look at my new expensive toy" aspect for another time. The topic deserved a nudge back to something less esoteric.
Conspicuous consumption is always in bad taste -- willfully putting it on display. Not many people can shell out two bills on a Dutch oven, and it's obtuse to try to draw a crowd on the subject, my answer to Fellowship's "what have you done for the poor" challenge notwithstanding.
Back to the root of what I suspected was a shallow comment that deserved a nudge -- the "being more French than American." My apologies, effete snobbery is not my strong suit:
Elizabeth Bates has been to Rome
And looked at the statues there;
Elizabeth Bates has scaled the Alps
And sniffed the mountain air.
Elizabeth Bates has winced at Nice
And quibbled at gay Paree,
And lifted her delicate eyebrows at
Indelicate Barbary.
Elizabeth Bates has "done" the globe
From Panama back to the States,
But all she saw on the way around
Was Miss Elizabeth Bates.
—Milo Ray Phelps, New Yorker, December 21, 1928
(Edit: Don't get me wrong, Fellowship is a sweetie.)
dmz I happen to love France yet I am an American. I think you need to learn how to live and let live. It should not concern you if I happen to love what the French are good at. I have explained myself fully within this thread with the vacuum example in particular I think you need to take a look at it and read it about 12 times or as needed until you "get it".
I for one do not have any desire for an inexpensive cast iron pot which is not constructed with enamel coatings. There are many acidic foods which react with the non-enamel coated untreated cast iron pot and as I cook with ingredients that are acid containing I decided on an enamel pot. Enamel pots are indeed more expensive than $30-40 uncoated pots. I view this subject like a I view a tool. If you use them often and want them to last buy quality. If not do not buy nice and / or expensive tools.
You really need to get a life and stop wasting your time nailing me on a cross for buying a nice French Le Crueset French Oven.
I have used my pot three times for my family since buying it and I get to avoid MSG and added fats you get when you eat out. American restaurants seem to think foods loaded with salt / MSG is what people want.
The Le Creuset dutch oven is one of the world's perfect things.
It is virtually impossible to ruin food in it, and it can cook many things better than anything else. Despite numerous attempts to reverse engineer it, nothing compares - except for pots costing even more.
The closest knock-off was from a company just on the other side of the border with Belgium, I believe, with a production process almost identical. Wasn't as good and went out of business.
A Le Creuset pot substitutes for - and outperforms - many other pots.
Anyone who eats would be wise to buy one. It has a lifetime warranty, and over time will save your culinary ass again and again. It is the best kichen investment you can make.
That's nasty, petty, and wrong. One good Le Creuset can save money on food, other pots, energy (cooks at lower temperatures) and help you eat well which everyone, even all those people dying of starvation, want. There is no link between a good kitchen pot and altruism, except that your response to his good kitchen pot was the opposite of altruistic.
You insult him and brag about your charity in what is likely the most condescending statement ever posted on the internet. If you are involved in charity, bragging about it sullies it. Do it out of the goodness of your heart, and not to brag about. And such condescension... all because he bought a decent pot. Yay for him! Boo for you!
Do not kick the cat! I am a cat and I do not like getting kicked!
Peace yourself! Do you know how yucky you sound in this thread? He's friendly you're yucky. You should go out and buy a nice pot and be less yucky. I recommend Le Creuset as a sensible choice. Eat well, be happy, do good things, and please, don't kick the cat!
Wow what a kind soul you are. I can't say I know you my friend but I thank you for your kind words. I can safely report that I have had nothing but perfect meals from my pot to date. I have used this pot three times and each time it has delivered far beyond my belief. It has such even cooking at low temps as you say and it is not at all a problem to clean up. Over the years I have had more and more of a love for cooking and this pot really has been a fine investment to serve the goal of great food at home for my family.
I think it's difficult to understand the investment when we live in such a fast-food culture.
But that aside, to me the pot still seems like an extravagance. I can't really understand how much of a difference it makes in cooking. I mean, if you made the same meal with this pot and with a "control" pot, would a blind taste-tester really discern a difference? I understand and greatly respect the rationale behind purchasing the pot, but I can't understand whether it really makes a difference.
*That also said, the pot itself is beautiful and I think anything that makes you more respectful of food and the cooking process is entirely worth it.
I think it's difficult to understand the investment when we live in such a fast-food culture.
But that aside, to me the pot still seems like an extravagance. I can't really understand how much of a difference it makes in cooking. I mean, if you made the same meal with this pot and with a "control" pot, would a blind taste-tester really discern a difference? I understand and greatly respect the rationale behind purchasing the pot, but I can't understand whether it really makes a difference.
*That also said, the pot itself is beautiful and I think anything that makes you more respectful of food and the cooking process is entirely worth it.
I appreciate your final bit of disclaimer at the end but to the former I would say that you are simply not in the know of how cast iron with a tight fitting lid cooks compared to pots and pans you use for other cooking methods. You can cook a larger array of meals for your family and have leftovers. I could care less about most "fast food"
"Slow food" is what I would rather have but I am not against anyone who likes fast food.
But that aside, to me the pot still seems like an extravagance. I can't really understand how much of a difference it makes in cooking. I mean, if you made the same meal with this pot and with a "control" pot, would a blind taste-tester really discern a difference? I understand and greatly respect the rationale behind purchasing the pot, but I can't understand whether it really makes a difference.
It really does make a difference. A less experienced cook might think the difference is in other things, but it really is the pot. That's what I've been told by experienced cooks. I've had meals out at people's houses where they credit Le Creuset.
The pot is able to both retains heat and surround food with it evenly. It doesn't burn stuff, no hot spots, and makes stuff tender. It's easy to use since you can cook on the stove or oven with it (one pot instead of two). It's what high tech slow cookers aspire to do, but Le Creuset, with its old school approach, does it better. It's like a little oven within an oven, evenly, slowly, and forgivingly cooking your food. If you have to do stuff, and friends are coming over to eat, it's the best way to make lots of food and know it will turn out well without stressing.
As for extravagant - if you factor in the price of food over a year, the cost is negligeable. If you factor in the price of the pot over its lifetime (my mother uses Le Creuset from her mother, and it's still covered by warranty), the cost is negligeable. There are other metrics (food money saved, culinary ass saved, eating healthy and good food) that also makes it sensible. How much do you spend on food over 50 years? What percent of that is $200?
I understand your point, but I think you've got the wrong target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz
Not meaning to get personal with Fellowship, which I don't think was actually in dispute; when I read his initial post he mentioned something to the effect that he felt "more French than American," then went into painful detail about his purchase.
I don't pretend to know his motivations but he seemed to post in a friendly "look what I just got" way rather than recreate the scene you describe from Moliere.
You claim his pot is not a pot but a symbol of American ?bourgeois? conspicuous effete consumption. I disagree. I think it?s just a pot: a practical, well-made, widely-sold, widely-purchased, widely-used, widely-admired pot. Le Creusets are sold in common everyday stores and are found in common everyday homes. They're everywhere, last forever, are endlessly useful, easy to clean, and conserve energy. It is easy to make large amounts of good healthy food in them, perfect for company. Despite their origin, they have long been an American workhorse hardly worthy of pontification. Le Creuset is a staple, not a symbol.
It's funny that this is an Apple forum. Many people make the same criticism about Apple's customers ? that Apple products symbolize conspicuous consumption ? comments that are thankfully dissipating as more people recognize their value. It is ironic that a place where we argue the value of a computer that costs $2000 and lasts 3 years would also be the place where we would argue the value of a pot that costs $200 and lasts for generations.
Audience Member 1: "What do you think the Rolls Royce represented?"
Audience Member 2: "I think it represented his car."
-Stardust Memories
?Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?
- You know who
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz
The first thing that came to my mind, was Americans trying to buy themselves some European sophistication -- we'll leave the empathy-deprived, gauche, new-money "look at my new expensive toy" aspect for another time.
Anyone attempting to buy one?s way into European sophistication ? a ghastly goal to begin with ? with a Le Creuset pot will fail miserably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz
The topic deserved a nudge back to something less snobbish.
Nothing snobbish about Le Creuset. It's like saying Americans eat pasta to put on Italian (or Chinese) airs. Not true. They just like pasta and like many things of foreign origin, in America is Americanized. The snobbery is in viewing the innocuous act of buying a kitchen appliance as a character flaw symbolic of a societal flaw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz
Conspicuous consumption is always in bad taste -- willfully putting it on display.
You've got the wrong target. Le Creuset is not conspicuous consumption any more than sleeping on a mattress is conspicuous consumption. This past week someone bought a diamond-encrusted skull for 130 million dollars. That's your target. Some have argued a $600 phone is conspicuous consumption. But Le Creuset? You might as well target French toast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz
Not many people can shell out two bills on a Dutch oven, and it's obtuse to try to draw a crowd on the subject, my answer to Fellowship's "what have you done for the poor" challenge notwithstanding.
The price of Le Creuset is based on cost of production ? individual molds must be made and broken for each one - yet pay for themselves many times over. If you are on a budget, it is a sensible investment. Besides, you would be surprised at the relative cost of cooking utensils among the world?s poor. Well made, hand made pots are not the problem. It?s the cost of, and access to, ingredients that are the problem.
As for the old saw that no one should ever buy anything as long as there are starving people in the world... that should probably be its own thread and deleted for all time! Bill Gates is the world's greatest philanthropist and a conspicuous consumer (what a house!). Paul Allen has a 500 million dollar boat and is also an incorigeable philanthropist. For all we know, Mother Teresa had the first flat screen TV in India. The world's problems, my friend, are not solved by depriving oneself of a decent pot. If anything, I would guess that anyone who knows how to cook themselves a decent meal is more likely to be altruistic than those who cannot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz
Back to the root of what I suspected was a shallow comment that deserved a nudge -- the "being more French than American." My apologies, effete snobbery is not my strong suit
What is more effete snobbery: a well-intended post about buying a pot and sharing recipes, or a semiological analysis that criticizes it as emblematic of nationalistic and demographic foibles?
It really does make a difference. A less experienced cook might think the difference is in other things, but it really is the pot. That's what I've been told by experienced cooks. I've had meals out at people's houses where they credit Le Creuset.
The pot is able to both retains heat and surround food with it evenly. It doesn't burn stuff, no hot spots, and makes stuff tender. It's easy to use since you can cook on the stove or oven with it (one pot instead of two). It's what high tech slow cookers aspire to do, but Le Creuset, with its old school approach, does it better. It's like a little oven within an oven, evenly, slowly, and forgivingly cooking your food. If you have to do stuff, and friends are coming over to eat, it's the best way to make lots of food and know it will turn out well without stressing.
As for extravagant - if you factor in the price of food over a year, the cost is negligeable. If you factor in the price of the pot over its lifetime (my mother uses Le Creuset from her mother, and it's still covered by warranty), the cost is negligeable. There are other metrics (food money saved, culinary ass saved, eating healthy and good food) that also makes it sensible. How much do you spend on food over 50 years? What percent of that is $200?
They are eternally sturdy. My mother's (which was her mother's) has got to be more than 50 years old. My mother doesn't follow the rules on how you're supposed to take care of it, and yet it's pretty forgiving. I know she's used steel wool on it and over the decades some of the enamel in the interior has erroded.
If you scrape at it, it will scrape. But its hard-fired enamel, almost like a glassy stone surface, not some heinous dupont petrochemical. As long as you resist the urge to use an abrasive cleaner, it rewards you by retaining a super smooth surface and therefore super easy to clean. But even if you don't, it still seems to age gracefully.
They now have a cheaper line of pots out that are based on cermamic, not iron and I would not get one of those. They look like the real deal, and obviously the company is trying to cash in on their name with a more affordable line, but they are the real waste of money. I'd either get the real deal, or pass.
You know the best part of cast iron is how it retains heat when you have it heated up and put something in it that is cooler it does not cool down the pan. For example when you want to sear a piece of chicken or beef etc. In aluminum cookware while aluminum is a good conductor of heat it is poor poor poor at retaining heat when you put something cooler in it it looses oohmph to retain the originial temp of the preheated pan (it can actually cool down). With cast iron you get the pot up to temp and put something cooler in it you have virtually no "cool down" or heat loss in the pot as cast iron retains heat very very well and you continue with your successful cooking.
The other great part is that after you have cooked a meal in a cast iron pot the pot keeps the meal warm after you have cooked the meal. Again it is that retained heat feature which serves as yet another benefit. No heating source needed to keep the food warm in case you decide to go back for seconds or something like that.
Fellows
Ohh and the (other) best part of this pot is that it cooks tougher cuts of beef so you are enabled to buy cheaper tougher cuts of beef for example and the way the heat cooks with cast iron it breaks down the collagen just right and the meat comes out just perfect. NOT tough. It is the nature of the steady consistent radiant heat. Even the lid retains and radiates heat.
Comments
Looks good, I am going to check this one out...
Btw, I am a huge Paprika freak - if you are into these things I can recommend the best paprika in the world: La Chinata.
It is made here in Spain in limited quantities and is oak-smoked...you can get in hot or sweet versions but the thing about it is that is the first spice in the world to achieve coveted DOC status....it really is that good.
Imo, if one is serious about cooking Mediterenean food this is an essential...
That paprika looks wonderful!!
I may have seen it in stock at one of the local stores here called central market. I might have to get a canister of it.
Fellows
I think more Americans should be more European....
I see many Americans romanticize a French or Italian or whatever lifestyle, but they are really not anything like my cohorts from those countries when it comes to core lifestyle values and philosophy.
I see many Americans romanticize a French or Italian or whatever lifestyle, but they are really not anything like my cohorts from those countries when it comes to core lifestyle values and philosophy.
I always think people should let others make up their own minds regarding their opinions.
Fellows
I love many parts of the US but I would have to take out a jumbo loan on a home to live there and I am happy living in a paid for home here in Texas. What I try to do is bring elements of places I love back home and appreciate them in my day to day. Call me what you want but I am happy with my appreciation for other cultures as well as certain local cultures within the US. I am just not simply content with my local flavor if you will as it can get old like any one thing can get old after a while hence I incorporate many flavors into my life.
Fellows
That's fair Fellows. I have been fortunate to live my life in a very international work place and I have really enjoyed it. I suspect you see many more Americans each that than do I
I always think people should let others make up their own minds regarding their opinions.
Fellows
Don't mix finding a behavior humorous with not approving of it. Just about everyone we send to France or Spain or Italy comes back sure that they have found their true identity. It's funny, but I get it. In many ways we have a colder lifestyle here in the US. We have gutted our local businesses for suburban malls and abandoned our local proprietors for national chains. Many live in impersonal subdivision where you can’t even get a newspaper without driving.
carry on, dont blame me I have no free-will.
So I just got my first enamelled cast iron piece of cookware from Le Creuset made in the northern French town of Fresnoy-Le-Grand. It is their signature "flame" color and I love it. A 4.5 qt round "french oven" or dutch oven as others call them.
Congratulations.
The Le Creuset dutch oven is one of the world's perfect things.
It is virtually impossible to ruin food in it, and it can cook many things better than anything else. Despite numerous attempts to reverse engineer it, nothing compares - except for pots costing even more.
The closest knock-off was from a company just on the other side of the border with Belgium, I believe, with a production process almost identical. Wasn't as good and went out of business.
A Le Creuset pot substitutes for - and outperforms - many other pots.
Anyone who eats would be wise to buy one. It has a lifetime warranty, and over time will save your culinary ass again and again. It is the best kichen investment you can make.
mmmmm.... that's not my point, though. There are people dying of starvation in this world and somehow I needed a $285 saucepan?
That's nasty, petty, and wrong. One good Le Creuset can save money on food, other pots, energy (cooks at lower temperatures) and help you eat well which everyone, even all those people dying of starvation, want. There is no link between a good kitchen pot and altruism, except that your response to his good kitchen pot was the opposite of altruistic.
My point -- one more time -- is that Americans tend to get caught up some fairly bourgeois, if not downright effete buying habits, and that needn't be if people were focused solely on what was necessary to do the job.
As to what I have done for poor people, I give, not loan, roughly 3-4% of my yearly gross to poor. That doesn't include the 10% of my gross that I give, not loan, to various Church and nonprofit entities.
You insult him and brag about your charity in what is likely the most condescending statement ever posted on the internet. If you are involved in charity, bragging about it sullies it. Do it out of the goodness of your heart, and not to brag about. And such condescension... all because he bought a decent pot. Yay for him! Boo for you!
Go kick the cat or something, we're just talking here. Peace!
Do not kick the cat! I am a cat and I do not like getting kicked!
Peace yourself! Do you know how yucky you sound in this thread? He's friendly you're yucky. You should go out and buy a nice pot and be less yucky. I recommend Le Creuset as a sensible choice. Eat well, be happy, do good things, and please, don't kick the cat!
Not meaning to get personal with Fellowship, which I don't think was actually in dispute; when I read his initial post he mentioned something to the effect that he felt "more French than American," then went into painful detail about his purchase.
The first thing that came to my mind, was Americans trying to buy themselves some European sophistication -- we'll leave the empathy-deprived, gauche, "look at my new expensive toy" aspect for another time. The topic deserved a nudge back to something less esoteric.
Conspicuous consumption is always in bad taste -- willfully putting it on display. Not many people can shell out two bills on a Dutch oven, and it's obtuse to try to draw a crowd on the subject, my answer to Fellowship's "what have you done for the poor" challenge notwithstanding.
Back to the root of what I suspected was a shallow comment that deserved a nudge -- the "being more French than American." My apologies, effete snobbery is not my strong suit:
Elizabeth Bates has been to Rome
And looked at the statues there;
Elizabeth Bates has scaled the Alps
And sniffed the mountain air.
Elizabeth Bates has winced at Nice
And quibbled at gay Paree,
And lifted her delicate eyebrows at
Indelicate Barbary.
Elizabeth Bates has "done" the globe
From Panama back to the States,
But all she saw on the way around
Was Miss Elizabeth Bates.
—Milo Ray Phelps, New Yorker, December 21, 1928
(Edit: Don't get me wrong, Fellowship is a sweetie.)
Starting to look like cookware needs to be added to the list of things you don't talk about in polite company, up there with politics and religion.
You nailed it:
The person who got pissy managed to link the pot to politics and religion!
I for one do not have any desire for an inexpensive cast iron pot which is not constructed with enamel coatings. There are many acidic foods which react with the non-enamel coated untreated cast iron pot and as I cook with ingredients that are acid containing I decided on an enamel pot. Enamel pots are indeed more expensive than $30-40 uncoated pots. I view this subject like a I view a tool. If you use them often and want them to last buy quality. If not do not buy nice and / or expensive tools.
You really need to get a life and stop wasting your time nailing me on a cross for buying a nice French Le Crueset French Oven.
I have used my pot three times for my family since buying it and I get to avoid MSG and added fats you get when you eat out. American restaurants seem to think foods loaded with salt / MSG is what people want.
Well I don't want it so I cook at home..
Fellows
Congratulations.
The Le Creuset dutch oven is one of the world's perfect things.
It is virtually impossible to ruin food in it, and it can cook many things better than anything else. Despite numerous attempts to reverse engineer it, nothing compares - except for pots costing even more.
The closest knock-off was from a company just on the other side of the border with Belgium, I believe, with a production process almost identical. Wasn't as good and went out of business.
A Le Creuset pot substitutes for - and outperforms - many other pots.
Anyone who eats would be wise to buy one. It has a lifetime warranty, and over time will save your culinary ass again and again. It is the best kichen investment you can make.
That's nasty, petty, and wrong. One good Le Creuset can save money on food, other pots, energy (cooks at lower temperatures) and help you eat well which everyone, even all those people dying of starvation, want. There is no link between a good kitchen pot and altruism, except that your response to his good kitchen pot was the opposite of altruistic.
You insult him and brag about your charity in what is likely the most condescending statement ever posted on the internet. If you are involved in charity, bragging about it sullies it. Do it out of the goodness of your heart, and not to brag about. And such condescension... all because he bought a decent pot. Yay for him! Boo for you!
Do not kick the cat! I am a cat and I do not like getting kicked!
Peace yourself! Do you know how yucky you sound in this thread? He's friendly you're yucky. You should go out and buy a nice pot and be less yucky. I recommend Le Creuset as a sensible choice. Eat well, be happy, do good things, and please, don't kick the cat!
Wow what a kind soul you are. I can't say I know you my friend but I thank you for your kind words. I can safely report that I have had nothing but perfect meals from my pot to date. I have used this pot three times and each time it has delivered far beyond my belief. It has such even cooking at low temps as you say and it is not at all a problem to clean up. Over the years I have had more and more of a love for cooking and this pot really has been a fine investment to serve the goal of great food at home for my family.
Respectfully,
Fellowship
But that aside, to me the pot still seems like an extravagance. I can't really understand how much of a difference it makes in cooking. I mean, if you made the same meal with this pot and with a "control" pot, would a blind taste-tester really discern a difference? I understand and greatly respect the rationale behind purchasing the pot, but I can't understand whether it really makes a difference.
*That also said, the pot itself is beautiful and I think anything that makes you more respectful of food and the cooking process is entirely worth it.
I think it's difficult to understand the investment when we live in such a fast-food culture.
But that aside, to me the pot still seems like an extravagance. I can't really understand how much of a difference it makes in cooking. I mean, if you made the same meal with this pot and with a "control" pot, would a blind taste-tester really discern a difference? I understand and greatly respect the rationale behind purchasing the pot, but I can't understand whether it really makes a difference.
*That also said, the pot itself is beautiful and I think anything that makes you more respectful of food and the cooking process is entirely worth it.
I appreciate your final bit of disclaimer at the end but to the former I would say that you are simply not in the know of how cast iron with a tight fitting lid cooks compared to pots and pans you use for other cooking methods. You can cook a larger array of meals for your family and have leftovers. I could care less about most "fast food"
"Slow food" is what I would rather have but I am not against anyone who likes fast food.
Fellows
But that aside, to me the pot still seems like an extravagance. I can't really understand how much of a difference it makes in cooking. I mean, if you made the same meal with this pot and with a "control" pot, would a blind taste-tester really discern a difference? I understand and greatly respect the rationale behind purchasing the pot, but I can't understand whether it really makes a difference.
It really does make a difference. A less experienced cook might think the difference is in other things, but it really is the pot. That's what I've been told by experienced cooks. I've had meals out at people's houses where they credit Le Creuset.
The pot is able to both retains heat and surround food with it evenly. It doesn't burn stuff, no hot spots, and makes stuff tender. It's easy to use since you can cook on the stove or oven with it (one pot instead of two). It's what high tech slow cookers aspire to do, but Le Creuset, with its old school approach, does it better. It's like a little oven within an oven, evenly, slowly, and forgivingly cooking your food. If you have to do stuff, and friends are coming over to eat, it's the best way to make lots of food and know it will turn out well without stressing.
As for extravagant - if you factor in the price of food over a year, the cost is negligeable. If you factor in the price of the pot over its lifetime (my mother uses Le Creuset from her mother, and it's still covered by warranty), the cost is negligeable. There are other metrics (food money saved, culinary ass saved, eating healthy and good food) that also makes it sensible. How much do you spend on food over 50 years? What percent of that is $200?
I understand your point, but I think you've got the wrong target.
Not meaning to get personal with Fellowship, which I don't think was actually in dispute; when I read his initial post he mentioned something to the effect that he felt "more French than American," then went into painful detail about his purchase.
I don't pretend to know his motivations but he seemed to post in a friendly "look what I just got" way rather than recreate the scene you describe from Moliere.
You claim his pot is not a pot but a symbol of American ?bourgeois? conspicuous effete consumption. I disagree. I think it?s just a pot: a practical, well-made, widely-sold, widely-purchased, widely-used, widely-admired pot. Le Creusets are sold in common everyday stores and are found in common everyday homes. They're everywhere, last forever, are endlessly useful, easy to clean, and conserve energy. It is easy to make large amounts of good healthy food in them, perfect for company. Despite their origin, they have long been an American workhorse hardly worthy of pontification. Le Creuset is a staple, not a symbol.
It's funny that this is an Apple forum. Many people make the same criticism about Apple's customers ? that Apple products symbolize conspicuous consumption ? comments that are thankfully dissipating as more people recognize their value. It is ironic that a place where we argue the value of a computer that costs $2000 and lasts 3 years would also be the place where we would argue the value of a pot that costs $200 and lasts for generations.
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The first thing that came to my mind, was Americans trying to buy themselves some European sophistication -- we'll leave the empathy-deprived, gauche, new-money "look at my new expensive toy" aspect for another time.
Anyone attempting to buy one?s way into European sophistication ? a ghastly goal to begin with ? with a Le Creuset pot will fail miserably.
The topic deserved a nudge back to something less snobbish.
Nothing snobbish about Le Creuset. It's like saying Americans eat pasta to put on Italian (or Chinese) airs. Not true. They just like pasta and like many things of foreign origin, in America is Americanized. The snobbery is in viewing the innocuous act of buying a kitchen appliance as a character flaw symbolic of a societal flaw.
Conspicuous consumption is always in bad taste -- willfully putting it on display.
You've got the wrong target. Le Creuset is not conspicuous consumption any more than sleeping on a mattress is conspicuous consumption. This past week someone bought a diamond-encrusted skull for 130 million dollars. That's your target. Some have argued a $600 phone is conspicuous consumption. But Le Creuset? You might as well target French toast.
Not many people can shell out two bills on a Dutch oven, and it's obtuse to try to draw a crowd on the subject, my answer to Fellowship's "what have you done for the poor" challenge notwithstanding.
The price of Le Creuset is based on cost of production ? individual molds must be made and broken for each one - yet pay for themselves many times over. If you are on a budget, it is a sensible investment. Besides, you would be surprised at the relative cost of cooking utensils among the world?s poor. Well made, hand made pots are not the problem. It?s the cost of, and access to, ingredients that are the problem.
As for the old saw that no one should ever buy anything as long as there are starving people in the world... that should probably be its own thread and deleted for all time! Bill Gates is the world's greatest philanthropist and a conspicuous consumer (what a house!). Paul Allen has a 500 million dollar boat and is also an incorigeable philanthropist. For all we know, Mother Teresa had the first flat screen TV in India. The world's problems, my friend, are not solved by depriving oneself of a decent pot. If anything, I would guess that anyone who knows how to cook themselves a decent meal is more likely to be altruistic than those who cannot.
Back to the root of what I suspected was a shallow comment that deserved a nudge -- the "being more French than American." My apologies, effete snobbery is not my strong suit
What is more effete snobbery: a well-intended post about buying a pot and sharing recipes, or a semiological analysis that criticizes it as emblematic of nationalistic and demographic foibles?
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It really does make a difference. A less experienced cook might think the difference is in other things, but it really is the pot. That's what I've been told by experienced cooks. I've had meals out at people's houses where they credit Le Creuset.
The pot is able to both retains heat and surround food with it evenly. It doesn't burn stuff, no hot spots, and makes stuff tender. It's easy to use since you can cook on the stove or oven with it (one pot instead of two). It's what high tech slow cookers aspire to do, but Le Creuset, with its old school approach, does it better. It's like a little oven within an oven, evenly, slowly, and forgivingly cooking your food. If you have to do stuff, and friends are coming over to eat, it's the best way to make lots of food and know it will turn out well without stressing.
As for extravagant - if you factor in the price of food over a year, the cost is negligeable. If you factor in the price of the pot over its lifetime (my mother uses Le Creuset from her mother, and it's still covered by warranty), the cost is negligeable. There are other metrics (food money saved, culinary ass saved, eating healthy and good food) that also makes it sensible. How much do you spend on food over 50 years? What percent of that is $200?
I'm sold.
Do these chip?
I'm sold.
Do these chip?
They are eternally sturdy. My mother's (which was her mother's) has got to be more than 50 years old. My mother doesn't follow the rules on how you're supposed to take care of it, and yet it's pretty forgiving. I know she's used steel wool on it and over the decades some of the enamel in the interior has erroded.
If you scrape at it, it will scrape. But its hard-fired enamel, almost like a glassy stone surface, not some heinous dupont petrochemical. As long as you resist the urge to use an abrasive cleaner, it rewards you by retaining a super smooth surface and therefore super easy to clean. But even if you don't, it still seems to age gracefully.
They now have a cheaper line of pots out that are based on cermamic, not iron and I would not get one of those. They look like the real deal, and obviously the company is trying to cash in on their name with a more affordable line, but they are the real waste of money. I'd either get the real deal, or pass.
I'll go home and cook something real nice now
I'm sold.
Do these chip?
You know the best part of cast iron is how it retains heat when you have it heated up and put something in it that is cooler it does not cool down the pan. For example when you want to sear a piece of chicken or beef etc. In aluminum cookware while aluminum is a good conductor of heat it is poor poor poor at retaining heat when you put something cooler in it it looses oohmph to retain the originial temp of the preheated pan (it can actually cool down). With cast iron you get the pot up to temp and put something cooler in it you have virtually no "cool down" or heat loss in the pot as cast iron retains heat very very well and you continue with your successful cooking.
The other great part is that after you have cooked a meal in a cast iron pot the pot keeps the meal warm after you have cooked the meal. Again it is that retained heat feature which serves as yet another benefit. No heating source needed to keep the food warm in case you decide to go back for seconds or something like that.
Fellows
Ohh and the (other) best part of this pot is that it cooks tougher cuts of beef so you are enabled to buy cheaper tougher cuts of beef for example and the way the heat cooks with cast iron it breaks down the collagen just right and the meat comes out just perfect. NOT tough. It is the nature of the steady consistent radiant heat. Even the lid retains and radiates heat.