I'm sure then they were UNIX networks at Universities, mid to large corporations, and government agencies. All with dumb terminals until the early to mid 1980s where the PC replaced the dumb terminal.
Didn't you mean to say "where the dumb PC [read MS DOS compatible] replaced the dumb terminal" ? Sorry, couldn't resist
[QUOTE=rahlgren;1157776]I don't understand why when I get an email with pictures in it, I also have to tell the program to save the pictures. Didn't it already download them anyway? Just go ahead and put them in the folder I've chosen for downloads./QUOTE]
Try and take a look in Mail Preferences -> General -> Downloads Folder
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahlgren
I'd like to permanently set Mail as my default mail program instead of having Mail arbitrarily reset it to Eudora. I can't delete Eudora as I don't trust that everything got transferred to Mail.
And you're sure that it isn't Eudora changing the default app?
what about smilies ? when you type ";" and ")" in thunderbird (even in full text mode), you get a nice but in Mail 2.0 (Tiger), when someone writes you a , you only get a ";" and ")" !
This report goes to great lengths to follow the origins, history, and maturity of the Apple's Mail client. For those readers with limited time or who are only interested in what's due in Leopard, you can skip to page 3 of this report.
I could return your latter argument: Smart Folders require mails to be filtered to fall into special rules. Unfortunately, real life doesn't always follow rules. Imagine I've got two groups of friends who exchange lots of e-mails so I want one folder for one group and another for the second group so I can see discussions of either group all in one place without being disturbed by any other e-mail in between. Easy you say, just set the Smart Folder to filter with regard to sender/recipient? Unfortunately, some people belong to both groups, and not every time mails are being sent to the group but to one person only (in particular me, otherwise I wouldn't receive it obviously). I can't see any rule to cover that, but it's easy with 'hard' folders and simple filtering that covers 90% of all cases and me manually moving the remaining 10%.
I got lots of similar cases with my e-mail, so I can't imagine there wouldn't be a use for hard folders for other people.
Thing is, I can arbitrarily move any e-mails to any hard folder which I can't with Smart Folders. Life IS arbitrary oftentimes.
It's not so arbitrary that you can't create a Smart Folder that filters through some sender/recipients and adds a second condition that excludes e-mails from certain sender/recipients. I bet I could set you up with a Smart Folder that does this and has 99% accuracy...which would then be a guaranteed 100% if you keep your e-mail messages grouped as threads.
I know some people give up early on Smart Folders because they can't be bothered figuring out the exact query that will fit their specific situation.
It's very, very handy, I do it with a script from the command line at the moment.
Imagine you have a message from two months ago with the subject "Re: Fw: Your mail" which is about some very crucial matter. Nice to be able to change it to "Brain transplant schedule for November" or whatever, so that you can quickly see it while scanning your "important" folder.
Imagine if you could *edit* the content of the e-mail too? Tampering with e-mail subject lines or content for that matter is not something Apple will ever allow. I can see how it could be useful for sorting purposes but it's mostly irrelevant considering it's a chore to sift through e-mail by just looking at the subject line in most cases.
In general, nobody remembers the subject line of the e-mail but they remember the general idea of the e-mail. A simple search for "brain transplant" or "Dr. Frankenstein" would have found that e-mail instantly.
I know some people give up early on Smart Folders because they can't be bothered figuring out the exact query that will fit their specific situation.
This is an understandable sentiment but I think you're approaching the situation rather dogmatically. Smart folders are useful, but so are normal folders.
I've been writing database front ends for two decades now. Despite this, I still don't want to treat my mail as a single database table accessed solely by stored queries. There is utility in manually managing storage that will never be done away with, no matter how "smart" our folders get. Each method is optimal for some daily tasks.
Thankfully we don't have to exclusively use one or the other.
Will we finally get the ability to request a Return Receipt in Mail.app?
If not, business users will likely continue to use Thunderbird or Entourage etc, which makes it all the more bizarre if Apple has left out this simple and oft-requested feature!
Any users of the development release able to advise one way or the other?
It would be so great - SO GREAT - if writers stuck to the truth and cited references relating historic fact. As things stand this article is not swaying enough from the truth to incur wrath but just enough from it to be really and truly annoying.
Steve is a true visionary never satisfied with e status quo.
So you give NO credit to the hundreds of engineers at NeXT? Do you really think Steve understands MACH? Or what SOS Interface was all about? Or had the competence to put together the class system of NeXTSTEP? What you refuse to see is although NeXTSTEP is close to OS X and vice versa that it's taken nearly ten years for Apple to get where NeXTSTEP was ten years ago. Put that in your Kool-Aid jar and drink it.
It would be so great - SO GREAT - if writers stuck to the truth and cited references relating historic fact. As things stand this article is not swaying enough from the truth to incur wrath but just enough from it to be really and truly annoying.
I do it every day. The "+" button in Mail 2.0's lower-left corner by default creates a regular, rather than Smart, mailbox at the top level (they're positioned in the very bottom of the sidebar), stored locally. Email-filtering rules can deliver from any inbox to any of these folders. I have one that pulls certain automated notices out of my work POP inbox into a folder, and another that filters mailing list postings out of an imap account. If you don't mind that the folders are top-level, try it!
I use Mail at home and Thunderbird at work, in both cases with two POP and two IMAP accounts, and though the visual metaphor is different in their respective sidebars, I really can't see any functional difference. There's little that I can do in one that I can't in the other, with respect to folder management.
The only problem then is, that under a sub-folder you can't create another sub-folder.
Like Family with under that relatives.
Or Forums and under that the names of the various forums.
I don't know about the posters original motivation for his request but there are good reasons to want this sort of arrangement. First; if we acknowledge that Apple storage of E-Mails as individual files is a good thing we then realize they are simple file system objects. This means that writing scripts to work against specific types of E-Mails is very easy.
Lets say for Example that you can get Mail to sort out all E-Mails of advertisements from a specific vendor for you. If these end up in a specific directory you can then write simple scripts to purge these ads every 45 days for example. Other important E-Mails can be backed up to secondary storage automatically. The idea here is to populate your USB dongle with only the stuff from correspondents that you find important automatically.
Things like searching for specific files with Finder would be easier too.
In the end I would want what the original poster is looking for myself. The usability enhancements that Apple is making with OS/X have me looking seriously at it for use on a laptop. This from a Linux user. The thing is they need to move forward as far as removing artificial restrictions with respect to power users.
Dave
Exactly, most Apple applications are too limited.
Same with current iCal. You can have done To Do's deleted after a certain amount of time, or not at all.
There is no option to mark them flagged "done" and have them visually removed and to be popped up by clicking a button or so.
Then there is iTunes. Don't even get me started on that POS crapware.
All Apple software is just not done. It all misses small things to make them perfect for me, meaning I have to resort to 3rd party software.
I'd love to go to Apple because I do like Mac OS X a lot, and it's a nice change from Microsoft, but even in Windows and it's default Outlook Express and Windows Media Player (which I both don't use btw) I can do the things I miss in Apple's default software :-(
Yes. I just tried it (on 2.0), actually with a subfolder of a subfolder of a subfolder of a folder. I'm not sure there is any limit to how deep you can nest folders.
Yes. I just tried it (on 2.0), actually with a subfolder of a subfolder of a subfolder of a folder. I'm not sure there is any limit to how deep you can nest folders.
Here's one nested thrice:
Hmm, need to retest it myself again then. Must have done something silly last time...
NeXT had email back in 1988? How? There was no real internet in 1988! I was running an Amiga and a C128 back then and was considered a NERD, I do not remember email, I do remember local-networking chat-rooms using modems but not emails?
Weird
E-mail between computers existed through much of the 1970s, over non-standard networks. ARPANET had an early version, before becoming "the Internet". UNIX in the late 1970s supported e-mail to users of remote machines (if you knew a "path" from your machine to the remote machine). Mail to "fred@remotemachine" was addressed as:
To: nearbymachine!furthermachine!remotemachine!fred
The implementation depended on machine-to-machine file copy and machine names that were unique to neighboring machines. Each hop removed the left-most machine name from the "bang" list. See: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP>;
"Internet-style" e-mail names became common in 1982-83 as RFC 822 was adopted as an e-mail standard for the Internet, and a standard for mixing the 2 e-mail addressing systems was defined. My Amiga 1000 back in 1986 was often dialing up UNIX machines in order to read/send e-mail to both types of addresses. And to read news-groups (USENET) and download new freeware.
Comments
I'm sure then they were UNIX networks at Universities, mid to large corporations, and government agencies. All with dumb terminals until the early to mid 1980s where the PC replaced the dumb terminal.
Didn't you mean to say "where the dumb PC [read MS DOS compatible] replaced the dumb terminal" ? Sorry, couldn't resist
Try and take a look in Mail Preferences -> General -> Downloads Folder
I'd like to permanently set Mail as my default mail program instead of having Mail arbitrarily reset it to Eudora. I can't delete Eudora as I don't trust that everything got transferred to Mail.
And you're sure that it isn't Eudora changing the default app?
Does Mail 3.0 display now smilies ?
This report goes to great lengths to follow the origins, history, and maturity of the Apple's Mail client. For those readers with limited time or who are only interested in what's due in Leopard, you can skip to page 3 of this report.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
The link to page 3 does not actually work (don't worry, i did read the entire article).
I could return your latter argument: Smart Folders require mails to be filtered to fall into special rules. Unfortunately, real life doesn't always follow rules. Imagine I've got two groups of friends who exchange lots of e-mails so I want one folder for one group and another for the second group so I can see discussions of either group all in one place without being disturbed by any other e-mail in between. Easy you say, just set the Smart Folder to filter with regard to sender/recipient? Unfortunately, some people belong to both groups, and not every time mails are being sent to the group but to one person only (in particular me, otherwise I wouldn't receive it obviously). I can't see any rule to cover that, but it's easy with 'hard' folders and simple filtering that covers 90% of all cases and me manually moving the remaining 10%.
I got lots of similar cases with my e-mail, so I can't imagine there wouldn't be a use for hard folders for other people.
Thing is, I can arbitrarily move any e-mails to any hard folder which I can't with Smart Folders. Life IS arbitrary oftentimes.
It's not so arbitrary that you can't create a Smart Folder that filters through some sender/recipients and adds a second condition that excludes e-mails from certain sender/recipients. I bet I could set you up with a Smart Folder that does this and has 99% accuracy...which would then be a guaranteed 100% if you keep your e-mail messages grouped as threads.
I know some people give up early on Smart Folders because they can't be bothered figuring out the exact query that will fit their specific situation.
It's very, very handy, I do it with a script from the command line at the moment.
Imagine you have a message from two months ago with the subject "Re: Fw: Your mail" which is about some very crucial matter. Nice to be able to change it to "Brain transplant schedule for November" or whatever, so that you can quickly see it while scanning your "important" folder.
Imagine if you could *edit* the content of the e-mail too? Tampering with e-mail subject lines or content for that matter is not something Apple will ever allow. I can see how it could be useful for sorting purposes but it's mostly irrelevant considering it's a chore to sift through e-mail by just looking at the subject line in most cases.
In general, nobody remembers the subject line of the e-mail but they remember the general idea of the e-mail. A simple search for "brain transplant" or "Dr. Frankenstein" would have found that e-mail instantly.
I know some people give up early on Smart Folders because they can't be bothered figuring out the exact query that will fit their specific situation.
This is an understandable sentiment but I think you're approaching the situation rather dogmatically. Smart folders are useful, but so are normal folders.
I've been writing database front ends for two decades now. Despite this, I still don't want to treat my mail as a single database table accessed solely by stored queries. There is utility in manually managing storage that will never be done away with, no matter how "smart" our folders get. Each method is optimal for some daily tasks.
Thankfully we don't have to exclusively use one or the other.
If not, business users will likely continue to use Thunderbird or Entourage etc, which makes it all the more bizarre if Apple has left out this simple and oft-requested feature!
Any users of the development release able to advise one way or the other?
Here's one very basic necessary feature I'd like to see in Mail someday if not sooner:
I'd like to be able to edit the subject line to my own liking. To not be able to do this is just bizarre. Forwarding is not the answer.
One work-around is to move the message to the Drafts folder, edit the subject line, and then move it back to the inbox.
Steve is a true visionary never satisfied with e status quo.
So you give NO credit to the hundreds of engineers at NeXT? Do you really think Steve understands MACH? Or what SOS Interface was all about? Or had the competence to put together the class system of NeXTSTEP? What you refuse to see is although NeXTSTEP is close to OS X and vice versa that it's taken nearly ten years for Apple to get where NeXTSTEP was ten years ago. Put that in your Kool-Aid jar and drink it.
Will we finally get the ability to request a Return Receipt in Mail.app?
Yes. That's ticket #3001 for Apple Mail. Unfortunately the other three thousand which mostly are bugs will have to be taken care of first.
It would be so great - SO GREAT - if writers stuck to the truth and cited references relating historic fact. As things stand this article is not swaying enough from the truth to incur wrath but just enough from it to be really and truly annoying.
Would you care to point them out?
I do it every day. The "+" button in Mail 2.0's lower-left corner by default creates a regular, rather than Smart, mailbox at the top level (they're positioned in the very bottom of the sidebar), stored locally. Email-filtering rules can deliver from any inbox to any of these folders. I have one that pulls certain automated notices out of my work POP inbox into a folder, and another that filters mailing list postings out of an imap account. If you don't mind that the folders are top-level, try it!
I use Mail at home and Thunderbird at work, in both cases with two POP and two IMAP accounts, and though the visual metaphor is different in their respective sidebars, I really can't see any functional difference. There's little that I can do in one that I can't in the other, with respect to folder management.
The only problem then is, that under a sub-folder you can't create another sub-folder.
Like Family with under that relatives.
Or Forums and under that the names of the various forums.
I don't know about the posters original motivation for his request but there are good reasons to want this sort of arrangement. First; if we acknowledge that Apple storage of E-Mails as individual files is a good thing we then realize they are simple file system objects. This means that writing scripts to work against specific types of E-Mails is very easy.
Lets say for Example that you can get Mail to sort out all E-Mails of advertisements from a specific vendor for you. If these end up in a specific directory you can then write simple scripts to purge these ads every 45 days for example. Other important E-Mails can be backed up to secondary storage automatically. The idea here is to populate your USB dongle with only the stuff from correspondents that you find important automatically.
Things like searching for specific files with Finder would be easier too.
In the end I would want what the original poster is looking for myself. The usability enhancements that Apple is making with OS/X have me looking seriously at it for use on a laptop. This from a Linux user. The thing is they need to move forward as far as removing artificial restrictions with respect to power users.
Dave
Exactly, most Apple applications are too limited.
Same with current iCal. You can have done To Do's deleted after a certain amount of time, or not at all.
There is no option to mark them flagged "done" and have them visually removed and to be popped up by clicking a button or so.
Then there is iTunes. Don't even get me started on that POS crapware.
All Apple software is just not done. It all misses small things to make them perfect for me, meaning I have to resort to 3rd party software.
I'd love to go to Apple because I do like Mac OS X a lot, and it's a nice change from Microsoft, but even in Windows and it's default Outlook Express and Windows Media Player (which I both don't use btw) I can do the things I miss in Apple's default software :-(
The only problem then is, that under a sub-folder you can't create another sub-folder.
Like Family with under that relatives.
Or Forums and under that the names of the various forums.
Huh? You certainly can have sub folders.
Huh? You certainly can have sub folders.
But also sub-folders under sub-folders?
But also sub-folders under sub-folders?
Yes. I just tried it (on 2.0), actually with a subfolder of a subfolder of a subfolder of a folder. I'm not sure there is any limit to how deep you can nest folders.
Here's one nested thrice:
Yes. I just tried it (on 2.0), actually with a subfolder of a subfolder of a subfolder of a folder. I'm not sure there is any limit to how deep you can nest folders.
Here's one nested thrice:
Hmm, need to retest it myself again then. Must have done something silly last time...
NeXT had email back in 1988? How? There was no real internet in 1988! I was running an Amiga and a C128 back then and was considered a NERD, I do not remember email, I do remember local-networking chat-rooms using modems but not emails?
Weird
E-mail between computers existed through much of the 1970s, over non-standard networks. ARPANET had an early version, before becoming "the Internet". UNIX in the late 1970s supported e-mail to users of remote machines (if you knew a "path" from your machine to the remote machine). Mail to "fred@remotemachine" was addressed as:
To: nearbymachine!furthermachine!remotemachine!fred
The implementation depended on machine-to-machine file copy and machine names that were unique to neighboring machines. Each hop removed the left-most machine name from the "bang" list. See: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP>;
"Internet-style" e-mail names became common in 1982-83 as RFC 822 was adopted as an e-mail standard for the Internet, and a standard for mixing the 2 e-mail addressing systems was defined. My Amiga 1000 back in 1986 was often dialing up UNIX machines in order to read/send e-mail to both types of addresses. And to read news-groups (USENET) and download new freeware.