Thats quite a contradictory statement there. One one hand you are rubbishing any potnetial devices from Nokia stating the iphone is "here and now" yet you ask for time in the hope that iphone will allow 3rd party applications?
You missed my point. How long has Nokia been making phones? How long has the iPhone been out?
Second place is just another looser. I really don't see this as an iPhone killer by any means. I think Nokia is going to remain in the same boat they are in. Waaay behind the iPhone. Apple next Gen iPhone will probably sell 3 to 4 times as many as the first one. And also have 3 to 4 times as many features as the first one, not to mention all the 3rd party apps. The iPhone2 will probably have more developers than freaking Microsoft.
Apple next Gen iPhone will probably sell 3 to 4 times as many as the first one. And also have 3 to 4 times as many features as the first one, not to mention all the 3rd party apps. The iPhone2 will probably have more developers than freaking Microsoft.
What makes you so sure of this? You would have thought that the first time tbh.
Competition is good. The one good advantage that Apple has is that it controls all aspects of the phone in a tightly knit team. Hopefully, they have the ability to produce results as quickly as the established cell phone manufacturers. Time will tell and it will be pretty soon in this industry.
Competition is good. The one good advantage that Apple has is that it controls all aspects of the phone in a tightly knit team. Hopefully, they have the ability to produce results as quickly as the established cell phone manufacturers. Time will tell and it will be pretty soon in this industry.
I wouldnt count on that. Didnt Apple divert people from the Leopard team just for the iphone? I think they could expand their teams tbh
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Not sure what this is in response to. Has Nokia made a further announcement about ship dates?
Or does the confirmation of an iPhone SDK somehow confirm another manufacturers plans?
BTW, it seems like you might be hesitant to brand anyone a "fanboy" when you are so wildly and uncritically drooling over Nokia's "plans".
It may surprise you to know that I still plan on getting an iphone.
It may surprise you to know that I still plan on getting an iphone.
Not at all. I just think "fanboysim" is an overused and abused term-- so, for instance, I wouldn't dismiss you as a "Nokia fanboy" just because you seem pretty jazzed about what they're up to.
And I'm can't figure out what you meant by asking if anyone thought "this" is still vaporware-- did you mean the iPhone SDK, or the Nokia phone, or the Symbian touch OS, or what?
I wouldnt count on that. Didnt Apple divert people from the Leopard team just for the iphone? I think they could expand their teams tbh
Ok bavlondon2 I am glad you are excited about Nokia's offerings. It's a good thing for the iPhone. It will probably be the fastest moving Apple product as far as new features due to how competitive the cell phone market is. Which only makes owning an iPhone that much more important.
It's definitely vaporware if it's not released. Until it's for sale it's vaporware.
Expanding their teams is not as easy as you think. They have infrastructure in place that needs to be expanded to hold more people. Funny how they are in the process of building a new corporate headquarters? You also have to realize they have 22,000 some full time employees. To add say another 3,000 employees is a huge step for a business. Once you add all these new people you have to train them on certain things within the company. Once you add them you also better make sure they have something to do and higher ups to keep them moving. You can't in 6 months say well the iPhone has cooled down now so we are letting you go. There is too many internal changes and time investied to bring so many in and ship them out after the phone and Leopard are released. This is why Apple is spread so thin right now. They are not sure how big it will be (iPhone) and don't want to grow bigger than they need. So they will take it slow and move as they see fit. You can't just throw people at something without careful planning.
And this still doesn't negate the fact you want us to consider a Nokia phone that your telling us is trying to develope something similar to Apple's property (Coverflow) which you know they can't release on a phone. I'd rather have the phone that's making the waves not the one trying to catch up.
Not sure what this is in response to. Has Nokia made a further announcement about ship dates?
Well, from the press release, all we have is:
These technologies will be available for all S60 device manufacturers during 2008.
Umm, that's not a very precise date for an SDK release date (for hardware developers no less). Even Apple announces dates with a granularity of a month. This is an entire year! I can only surmise the release date will be July 1st give or take 6 months. Or perhaps the various kits will be delivered piecemeal over 2008.
As for a device like in the video to be released in February 2008? I really don't think so. It may be live demonstrated, but people won't be impressed if it is like the video. I don't think anyone is impressed by the video. Perhaps parts of this S60 UI accelerator kit and touch UI kit will be released then. If it was to be released Feb, dollars to donuts, we would have heard about the device at least 2 months ago.
As for Apple being unable to compete with Nokia, now that they will have touch feature in their UI, you guys have got to be kidding me. Of course they will be able to compete, both in hardware and in software. Apple can compete with featuritis phones, but that's not their way and not something they would be proud of selling. Under Steve Jobs, Apple is nothing but extremely targeted with their products. They will not be competing with Nokia, Samsung, LG, HTC, on trying to cram every feature into a cell phone. You can bank on this now, that Nokia will have a phone with more features than Apple's phones. However, you can bet that Apple will have phones that will be "elegant" for want of a better term.
Since now your complaint about 3rd party apps is resolved the other majory complaint people continue to drag on is about flash which has been discussed.
Flash has been widely criticized for its performance on OS X. Adobe has yet to do much to fix the situation. Apple leaving flash support off of the phone will likely persuade Adobe to do something about the performance, which would be a good thing for all Mac users. Flash support for h.264 is a step in the right direction towards support of flash video on the iPhone. As h.264 is much more efficient codec.
I don't know about you guys, but that Nokia is too bulky. I got rid of my Sprint PDA with slide out keyboard because I hated wearing that leather thing on my belt and I'd always lose it and it couldn't fit into my pocket. I love the sleekness of the iPhone, nice and slim.
Since now your complaint about 3rd party apps is resolved the other majory complaint people continue to drag on is about flash which has been discussed.
Flash has been widely criticized for its performance on OS X. Adobe has yet to do much to fix the situation. Apple leaving flash support off of the phone will likely persuade Adobe to do something about the performance, which would be a good thing for all Mac users. Flash support for h.264 is a step in the right direction towards support of flash video on the iPhone. As h.264 is much more efficient codec.
Fair enough. My main gripe though was lack of video recording, although ive been assured by a friend who works at Apple that it will be fixed in a future update so im just patiently waiting then ill buy my iphone.
Fair enough. My main gripe though was lack of video recording, although ive been assured by a friend who works at Apple that it will be fixed in a future update so im just patiently waiting then ill buy my iphone.
Here is an analysis of Nokia and Apple's mobile offerings. It is a nice read without fanboi material.
I believe Apple is "pulling a Microsoft" with the iPhone.. in the good sense.
MS has (or had) the knack of starting small, getting wrong (mostly), but then getting it better with the 2nd attempt, then by 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc they not only got it quite well, but also took over the whole (or most) of the market.
They did this with Office, Windows, Windows Mobile, Internet Explorer, etc etc...
Apple is starting small with "only" a few million iPhones sold, getting the feedback, seeing how to possibly make an iPhone and iPhone Pro, figuring out WHO can build this many phones (we're talking TENS of MILLIONS per month, not just a paltry half million or so like today).
No one could've suddenly sold like Moto, Nokia, or Samsung.. Apple is ramping up and looking at least 5-7 years in the future.
Make no doubt that Apple will offer a consumer, entry level iPhone of somekind eventually. Whether its in round 2 or 3, it will happen.
Didn't all the manufacturers scoff at the idea of a full touch interface for a phone? Why, all of a sudden is it the best thing since sliced bread? How, in such a short time, did the iPhone become the #4 smartphone sold in the US and the #1 selling phone from At&t? Why is it that everyone is trying to produce an iPhone killer and not, say, a Motorola killer? Why are there so many new concept phones that look a lot like iPhones? Hmmmmm....
If the press release and the video are anything to go by, this appears to be Nokia's answer to PalmOS and Windows Mobile Professional (whichever one has the touchscreen support), and even Symbian with UIQ. Perhaps not an answer exactly, but an implementation of a feature.
Nokia aren't really worried about PalmOS and Windows Mobile. Outside the USA those are statistically irrelevant and Nokia doesn't really sell phones in the USA although I'm sure they'd like to.
It would appear to be a direct answer to Apple but you're also right about UIQ. UIQ has always been a touch interface (with a stylus). Nokia's S60 UI has always been non-touch. I think Nokia have seen that they were wrong and are now playing catch-up.
UIQ3 added in UI transitions too, most of which just slowed down the UI to be honest, and made it annoying. It's still a much better UI than S60 though IME.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THT
The usage of sensors is interesting though. That could be something that is Apple-inspired. Apple didn't originate the idea, but I definitely think they reinvigorated the usage of onboard instrumentation for UI usage.
Again I don't think this is entirely because of Apple. Nokia's main competitor in Europe is Sony Ericsson and they've already got phones out that use accelerometers as part of the UI to do things like change to the next track in the music player - just shake the phone and goes to the next track - stuff like that.
It's great that Apple seems to have scared Nokia into being more UIQ like. Symbian always was a touch based OS back in the Psion EPOC days and even Nokia's S80 UI was touch based on their Communicators, so it's good to see Nokia find it's roots again.
Comments
Thats quite a contradictory statement there. One one hand you are rubbishing any potnetial devices from Nokia stating the iphone is "here and now" yet you ask for time in the hope that iphone will allow 3rd party applications?
You missed my point. How long has Nokia been making phones? How long has the iPhone been out?
Apple next Gen iPhone will probably sell 3 to 4 times as many as the first one. And also have 3 to 4 times as many features as the first one, not to mention all the 3rd party apps. The iPhone2 will probably have more developers than freaking Microsoft.
What makes you so sure of this? You would have thought that the first time tbh.
Just shown off in London... this may be what I'm REALLY looking for.
An 'iPhone' that actually allows you to use it to its full potential (like 3rd party apps, Bluetooth that works, etc)
Coming Feburary 2008.
It looks unfortunately a lot thicker and there is no price yet (although I wouldn't be surprised if it was 400-600euro range) and no real date.
I'm guessing no sooner than Feburary 2008.
Hopefully Apple can avoid the Symbian-like worms/virus with their SDK.
Anyone still think this is vapourware then?
Competition is good. The one good advantage that Apple has is that it controls all aspects of the phone in a tightly knit team. Hopefully, they have the ability to produce results as quickly as the established cell phone manufacturers. Time will tell and it will be pretty soon in this industry.
Anyone still think this is vapourware then?
Not sure what this is in response to. Has Nokia made a further announcement about ship dates?
Or does the confirmation of an iPhone SDK somehow confirm another manufacturers plans?
BTW, it seems like you might be hesitant to brand anyone a "fanboy" when you are so wildly and uncritically drooling over Nokia's "plans".
Competition is good. The one good advantage that Apple has is that it controls all aspects of the phone in a tightly knit team. Hopefully, they have the ability to produce results as quickly as the established cell phone manufacturers. Time will tell and it will be pretty soon in this industry.
I wouldnt count on that. Didnt Apple divert people from the Leopard team just for the iphone? I think they could expand their teams tbh
Not sure what this is in response to. Has Nokia made a further announcement about ship dates?
Or does the confirmation of an iPhone SDK somehow confirm another manufacturers plans?
BTW, it seems like you might be hesitant to brand anyone a "fanboy" when you are so wildly and uncritically drooling over Nokia's "plans".
It may surprise you to know that I still plan on getting an iphone.
It may surprise you to know that I still plan on getting an iphone.
Not at all. I just think "fanboysim" is an overused and abused term-- so, for instance, I wouldn't dismiss you as a "Nokia fanboy" just because you seem pretty jazzed about what they're up to.
And I'm can't figure out what you meant by asking if anyone thought "this" is still vaporware-- did you mean the iPhone SDK, or the Nokia phone, or the Symbian touch OS, or what?
I wouldnt count on that. Didnt Apple divert people from the Leopard team just for the iphone? I think they could expand their teams tbh
Ok bavlondon2 I am glad you are excited about Nokia's offerings. It's a good thing for the iPhone. It will probably be the fastest moving Apple product as far as new features due to how competitive the cell phone market is. Which only makes owning an iPhone that much more important.
It's definitely vaporware if it's not released. Until it's for sale it's vaporware.
Expanding their teams is not as easy as you think. They have infrastructure in place that needs to be expanded to hold more people. Funny how they are in the process of building a new corporate headquarters? You also have to realize they have 22,000 some full time employees. To add say another 3,000 employees is a huge step for a business. Once you add all these new people you have to train them on certain things within the company. Once you add them you also better make sure they have something to do and higher ups to keep them moving. You can't in 6 months say well the iPhone has cooled down now so we are letting you go. There is too many internal changes and time investied to bring so many in and ship them out after the phone and Leopard are released. This is why Apple is spread so thin right now. They are not sure how big it will be (iPhone) and don't want to grow bigger than they need. So they will take it slow and move as they see fit. You can't just throw people at something without careful planning.
And this still doesn't negate the fact you want us to consider a Nokia phone that your telling us is trying to develope something similar to Apple's property (Coverflow) which you know they can't release on a phone. I'd rather have the phone that's making the waves not the one trying to catch up.
Not sure what this is in response to. Has Nokia made a further announcement about ship dates?
Well, from the press release, all we have is:
These technologies will be available for all S60 device manufacturers during 2008.
Umm, that's not a very precise date for an SDK release date (for hardware developers no less). Even Apple announces dates with a granularity of a month. This is an entire year! I can only surmise the release date will be July 1st give or take 6 months. Or perhaps the various kits will be delivered piecemeal over 2008.
As for a device like in the video to be released in February 2008? I really don't think so. It may be live demonstrated, but people won't be impressed if it is like the video. I don't think anyone is impressed by the video. Perhaps parts of this S60 UI accelerator kit and touch UI kit will be released then. If it was to be released Feb, dollars to donuts, we would have heard about the device at least 2 months ago.
As for Apple being unable to compete with Nokia, now that they will have touch feature in their UI, you guys have got to be kidding me. Of course they will be able to compete, both in hardware and in software. Apple can compete with featuritis phones, but that's not their way and not something they would be proud of selling. Under Steve Jobs, Apple is nothing but extremely targeted with their products. They will not be competing with Nokia, Samsung, LG, HTC, on trying to cram every feature into a cell phone. You can bank on this now, that Nokia will have a phone with more features than Apple's phones. However, you can bet that Apple will have phones that will be "elegant" for want of a better term.
Yes it is.
Since now your complaint about 3rd party apps is resolved the other majory complaint people continue to drag on is about flash which has been discussed.
Flash has been widely criticized for its performance on OS X. Adobe has yet to do much to fix the situation. Apple leaving flash support off of the phone will likely persuade Adobe to do something about the performance, which would be a good thing for all Mac users. Flash support for h.264 is a step in the right direction towards support of flash video on the iPhone. As h.264 is much more efficient codec.
Since now your complaint about 3rd party apps is resolved the other majory complaint people continue to drag on is about flash which has been discussed.
Flash has been widely criticized for its performance on OS X. Adobe has yet to do much to fix the situation. Apple leaving flash support off of the phone will likely persuade Adobe to do something about the performance, which would be a good thing for all Mac users. Flash support for h.264 is a step in the right direction towards support of flash video on the iPhone. As h.264 is much more efficient codec.
Fair enough. My main gripe though was lack of video recording, although ive been assured by a friend who works at Apple that it will be fixed in a future update so im just patiently waiting then ill buy my iphone.
Fair enough. My main gripe though was lack of video recording, although ive been assured by a friend who works at Apple that it will be fixed in a future update so im just patiently waiting then ill buy my iphone.
Here is an analysis of Nokia and Apple's mobile offerings. It is a nice read without fanboi material.
http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.co...and-apple.html
Here is an analysis of Nokia and Apple's mobile offerings. It is a nice read without fanboi material.
http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.co...and-apple.html
Excellent post.
I believe Apple is "pulling a Microsoft" with the iPhone.. in the good sense.
MS has (or had) the knack of starting small, getting wrong (mostly), but then getting it better with the 2nd attempt, then by 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc they not only got it quite well, but also took over the whole (or most) of the market.
They did this with Office, Windows, Windows Mobile, Internet Explorer, etc etc...
Apple is starting small with "only" a few million iPhones sold, getting the feedback, seeing how to possibly make an iPhone and iPhone Pro, figuring out WHO can build this many phones (we're talking TENS of MILLIONS per month, not just a paltry half million or so like today).
No one could've suddenly sold like Moto, Nokia, or Samsung.. Apple is ramping up and looking at least 5-7 years in the future.
Make no doubt that Apple will offer a consumer, entry level iPhone of somekind eventually. Whether its in round 2 or 3, it will happen.
If the press release and the video are anything to go by, this appears to be Nokia's answer to PalmOS and Windows Mobile Professional (whichever one has the touchscreen support), and even Symbian with UIQ. Perhaps not an answer exactly, but an implementation of a feature.
Nokia aren't really worried about PalmOS and Windows Mobile. Outside the USA those are statistically irrelevant and Nokia doesn't really sell phones in the USA although I'm sure they'd like to.
It would appear to be a direct answer to Apple but you're also right about UIQ. UIQ has always been a touch interface (with a stylus). Nokia's S60 UI has always been non-touch. I think Nokia have seen that they were wrong and are now playing catch-up.
UIQ3 added in UI transitions too, most of which just slowed down the UI to be honest, and made it annoying. It's still a much better UI than S60 though IME.
The usage of sensors is interesting though. That could be something that is Apple-inspired. Apple didn't originate the idea, but I definitely think they reinvigorated the usage of onboard instrumentation for UI usage.
Again I don't think this is entirely because of Apple. Nokia's main competitor in Europe is Sony Ericsson and they've already got phones out that use accelerometers as part of the UI to do things like change to the next track in the music player - just shake the phone and goes to the next track - stuff like that.
It's great that Apple seems to have scared Nokia into being more UIQ like. Symbian always was a touch based OS back in the Psion EPOC days and even Nokia's S80 UI was touch based on their Communicators, so it's good to see Nokia find it's roots again.