I laughed out loud when I read Steves swipe at Nokias "our phones are open NERR" ad campaign
Steve
Quote:
Nokia, for example, is not allowing any applications to be loaded onto some of their newest phones unless they have a digital signature that can be traced back to a known developer. While this makes such a phone less than ?totally open,? we believe it is a step in the right direction.
That's automated, if it gets a certain amount of traffic in a certain amount of time, then it will become red.
I made mention the other day of the fact that one of the threads was RED despite the fact that there were no comments on it at all. Unless the servers are doing the timewarp AGAIN ??
I think you have that backwards. Apple delayed Leopard to put developers onto the iPhone, or so the official line goes. I don't think they were telling lies.
iPhone OSX 1.0 wasn't Leopard though. IIRC the kernel was Tiger based.
1.1 added many of the security features that are in Leopard including the signed apps and sandbox. The iPhone hackers found it easy to break into 1.0 phones because most of the apps ran unsigned as the root user. Is iPhone OSX 1.1 Leopard? Probably close enough.
What's interesting is that Apple are adding features from iPhone OSX into Mac OSX. I don't remember them announcing signed apps before.
The real meaning of the news....
Apple will release iPhone OSX based on Leopard on 2/2008 (probably will be some delays though) and an iPhone SDK with it.
It would have been stupid if Apple released an SDK based on Tiger, and then break all the third party apps in 6 months.
I think you have that backwards. Apple delayed Leopard to put developers onto the iPhone, or so the official line goes. I don't think they were telling lies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation
What developers? Apple is still the only developer for the iPhone, Apple would have separate teams working on Leopard and the iPhone anyway. They delayed leopard because it still had a lot to smooth out, but I believe it was originally intended to have Leopard out before the iphone came out, it only makes logical sense, same goes for the new iMac.
aegis is referring to Apple's official explanation for delaying Leopard until October. Perhaps you haven't read it:
"However, iPhone contains the most sophisticated software ever shipped on a mobile device, and finishing it on time has not come without a price -- we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS(R) X team, and as a result we will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference in early June as planned"
Yes, definitely. If he'd only have said this at the beginning there would have been very little bitching.
It was the "write a web app if you want to develop" line that everyone was up in arms about. I could easily have handled "We'll have an SDK next year; they're hard to write and will take time".
Amorya
exactly, this is what everyone has been waiting for.
He may or may not be correct, I lean to the idea that he is at least partly correct. The bigger issue is that the way this has been handled by Apple makes it look very much like what the poster suggests. There has been much about Apples handling of the iPhone and then the Touch that is questionable. Much of seems to be vary faulty understanding of what the consumer wants and what he finds acceptable.
Quote:
As far as I can tell, the iPhone users were satisfied (for the most part) with Apple's product and offerings.
This is far from the case, especially for business and more professional users. The iPhone or Touch are or where buggy, has issues with sync'ing and did not deliver everything advertised.
One of the big missing but advertised briefly feature was DiskMode on the Touch. This was a biggy to me as it is a feature that is wanted, I'd even like to see it on the iPhone.
The stories about the bugs are on the network if you care to look them up.
Quote:
It was iPhone user wannabe's that seemed most vocal. There was a ton of "I'm not even going to consider getting one 'till..." type of complaints.
I'm not sure why you call somebody declaring what is missing to satisfy their desire to buy a complaint. It is just a enumeration of needs. When you go to the car dealer you don't just take the model off the lot that is closes to you, you get one with the features you need. If it isn't on the lot you are at, you may very well go to another dealership. Frankly people are doing Apple a favor here and saving them a lot of time with marketing studies.
Now complaining about stuff that was or is missing that was advertised to be there is another thing and equally justifiable.
Quote:
And, my personal opinion is that they're still gunna just bitch, bitch, bitch.
Well for a while anyways. The reality is that there is real competition coming for both the Touch and the iPhone. When that gets here we can stop bitching and simply buy the hardware that suits our needs.
The problem is that Apple HARDWARE is the best on the market right now. So why not bitch about the lack of software? Lets be honest people bitch about the lack of software for the PS3 and no one thinks that is evil.
Quote:
I think it's iPhone envy.
Envy? That is a good question. The reality is that I've been in the Apple store several times looking at the iPhone, as both a personal purchase and a suggestion for a corporate project, and end up having to walk away. The release of a SDK may tip the scales in the future but one does not count the chickens before they are hatched.
For one of these uses the Touch would have been almost ideal if it had come with BlueTooth. Is it wrong to highlight that issue? I don't think so. Will Apple have new products on the market soon that solve some of these desire issues? Yep I think it is a given and in fact think the SDK is really coming to support a more PDA/Tablet like machine.
I don't believe you are correct. As far as I can tell, the iPhone users were satisfied (for the most part) with Apple's product and offerings. It was iPhone user wannabe's that seemed most vocal.
Well, of course. The people that the iPhone does not satisfy aren't going to buy one. For some of us (like myself) we love a load of features such as multitouch, decent syncing, the whole iTunes bit... but find some other bits so critically lacking that we can't buy the phone and be happy overall. For me, allowing third party apps will solve all my major criticisms with iPhone except the lack of 3G.
He may or may not be correct, I lean to the idea that he is at least partly correct. The bigger issue is that the way this has been handled by Apple makes it look very much like what the poster suggests. There has been much about Apples handling of the iPhone and then the Touch that is questionable. Much of seems to be vary faulty understanding of what the consumer wants and what he finds acceptable.
But, as you admit, you're not an iPhone customer. Informed consumers that have put cash on the barrel (by definition) knew what they were getting and were satisfied. I don't believe there were any appreciable number of iPhone customers who were dissatisfied - as long as you define "iPhone customer" as someone who actually purchased one of the phones with their own money.
Some companies are already taking action. Nokia, for example, is not allowing any applications to be loaded onto some of their newest phones unless they have a digital signature that can be traced back to a known developer. While this makes such a phone less than ?totally open,? we believe it is a step in the right direction. We are working on an advanced system which will offer developers broad access to natively program the iPhone?s amazing software platform while at the same time protecting users from malicious programs.
The devil will be in the details behind this statement. Just wait.
It *is* Apple, and it *is* Steve Jobs in the captain's chair...
This might be a stupid question... but does anyone think this is the sort of developement that might mean Mail for the ipod touch? and can anyone access .mac mail via safari on their Touch?
This might be a stupid question... but does anyone think this is the sort of developement that might mean Mail for the ipod touch? and can anyone access .mac mail via safari on their Touch?
That is a stupid question, you are very very stupid
Well, of course. The people that the iPhone does not satisfy aren't going to buy one. For some of us (like myself) we love a load of features such as multitouch, decent syncing, the whole iTunes bit... but find some other bits so critically lacking that we can't buy the phone and be happy overall. For me, allowing third party apps will solve all my major criticisms with iPhone except the lack of 3G.
Amorya
And THAT is why I consider it "complaining". Of all the phones on the market and all the manufactures making phones, Apple was the ONE manufacturer that came under fire for not providing the whiners with their "perfect phone experience".
Why is that? Perhaps 'cause Apple came the closest so far to making the perfect phone? And for that it deserves all the crap?
This is certainly great news! I'm with those who argee that this may not have happened if it were not for those vocal users and developers who demanded it. Thanks to Apple for communicating that they will come through.
Opening up to 3rd party apps certainly makes the current software differences between the iPhone and the iPod touch all the more confusing. Does Apple really want 3rd parties developing Notes, Calendaring, Mail, weather, etc. applications for the iPod touch? That is what is bound to happen if the current differences stay in place.
Now, I have to decide if I want to change carriers and get an iPhone, or if I should just go with the iPod touch.
Comments
I laughed out loud when I read Steves swipe at Nokias "our phones are open NERR" ad campaign
Steve
Nokia, for example, is not allowing any applications to be loaded onto some of their newest phones unless they have a digital signature that can be traced back to a known developer. While this makes such a phone less than ?totally open,? we believe it is a step in the right direction.
Brilliant
That's automated, if it gets a certain amount of traffic in a certain amount of time, then it will become red.
I made mention the other day of the fact that one of the threads was RED despite the fact that there were no comments on it at all. Unless the servers are doing the timewarp AGAIN
I think you have that backwards. Apple delayed Leopard to put developers onto the iPhone, or so the official line goes. I don't think they were telling lies.
iPhone OSX 1.0 wasn't Leopard though. IIRC the kernel was Tiger based.
1.1 added many of the security features that are in Leopard including the signed apps and sandbox. The iPhone hackers found it easy to break into 1.0 phones because most of the apps ran unsigned as the root user. Is iPhone OSX 1.1 Leopard? Probably close enough.
What's interesting is that Apple are adding features from iPhone OSX into Mac OSX. I don't remember them announcing signed apps before.
The real meaning of the news....
Apple will release iPhone OSX based on Leopard on 2/2008 (probably will be some delays though) and an iPhone SDK with it.
It would have been stupid if Apple released an SDK based on Tiger, and then break all the third party apps in 6 months.
I think you have that backwards. Apple delayed Leopard to put developers onto the iPhone, or so the official line goes. I don't think they were telling lies.
What developers? Apple is still the only developer for the iPhone, Apple would have separate teams working on Leopard and the iPhone anyway. They delayed leopard because it still had a lot to smooth out, but I believe it was originally intended to have Leopard out before the iphone came out, it only makes logical sense, same goes for the new iMac.
aegis is referring to Apple's official explanation for delaying Leopard until October. Perhaps you haven't read it:
"However, iPhone contains the most sophisticated software ever shipped on a mobile device, and finishing it on time has not come without a price -- we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS(R) X team, and as a result we will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference in early June as planned"
Yes, definitely. If he'd only have said this at the beginning there would have been very little bitching.
It was the "write a web app if you want to develop" line that everyone was up in arms about. I could easily have handled "We'll have an SDK next year; they're hard to write and will take time".
Amorya
exactly, this is what everyone has been waiting for.
Thanks for the announcement Steve.
I don't believe you are correct.
He may or may not be correct, I lean to the idea that he is at least partly correct. The bigger issue is that the way this has been handled by Apple makes it look very much like what the poster suggests. There has been much about Apples handling of the iPhone and then the Touch that is questionable. Much of seems to be vary faulty understanding of what the consumer wants and what he finds acceptable.
As far as I can tell, the iPhone users were satisfied (for the most part) with Apple's product and offerings.
This is far from the case, especially for business and more professional users. The iPhone or Touch are or where buggy, has issues with sync'ing and did not deliver everything advertised.
One of the big missing but advertised briefly feature was DiskMode on the Touch. This was a biggy to me as it is a feature that is wanted, I'd even like to see it on the iPhone.
The stories about the bugs are on the network if you care to look them up.
It was iPhone user wannabe's that seemed most vocal. There was a ton of "I'm not even going to consider getting one 'till..." type of complaints.
I'm not sure why you call somebody declaring what is missing to satisfy their desire to buy a complaint. It is just a enumeration of needs. When you go to the car dealer you don't just take the model off the lot that is closes to you, you get one with the features you need. If it isn't on the lot you are at, you may very well go to another dealership. Frankly people are doing Apple a favor here and saving them a lot of time with marketing studies.
Now complaining about stuff that was or is missing that was advertised to be there is another thing and equally justifiable.
And, my personal opinion is that they're still gunna just bitch, bitch, bitch.
Well for a while anyways. The reality is that there is real competition coming for both the Touch and the iPhone. When that gets here we can stop bitching and simply buy the hardware that suits our needs.
The problem is that Apple HARDWARE is the best on the market right now. So why not bitch about the lack of software? Lets be honest people bitch about the lack of software for the PS3 and no one thinks that is evil.
I think it's iPhone envy.
Envy? That is a good question. The reality is that I've been in the Apple store several times looking at the iPhone, as both a personal purchase and a suggestion for a corporate project, and end up having to walk away. The release of a SDK may tip the scales in the future but one does not count the chickens before they are hatched.
For one of these uses the Touch would have been almost ideal if it had come with BlueTooth. Is it wrong to highlight that issue? I don't think so. Will Apple have new products on the market soon that solve some of these desire issues? Yep I think it is a given and in fact think the SDK is really coming to support a more PDA/Tablet like machine.
Dave
I don't believe you are correct. As far as I can tell, the iPhone users were satisfied (for the most part) with Apple's product and offerings. It was iPhone user wannabe's that seemed most vocal.
Well, of course. The people that the iPhone does not satisfy aren't going to buy one. For some of us (like myself) we love a load of features such as multitouch, decent syncing, the whole iTunes bit... but find some other bits so critically lacking that we can't buy the phone and be happy overall. For me, allowing third party apps will solve all my major criticisms with iPhone except the lack of 3G.
Amorya
Google apps and data on a cache for:
excel
word
power point
synchro with avantgo client
syncrho with exchange (you know the one that you cannot get rid of it at work)
for emails, contacts (important) and appointment/meetings
skype and voip on wifi.
gps ? (i still have a doubt on the hardware side)
my next palm could be an iphone after all no !
He may or may not be correct, I lean to the idea that he is at least partly correct. The bigger issue is that the way this has been handled by Apple makes it look very much like what the poster suggests. There has been much about Apples handling of the iPhone and then the Touch that is questionable. Much of seems to be vary faulty understanding of what the consumer wants and what he finds acceptable.
But, as you admit, you're not an iPhone customer. Informed consumers that have put cash on the barrel (by definition) knew what they were getting and were satisfied. I don't believe there were any appreciable number of iPhone customers who were dissatisfied - as long as you define "iPhone customer" as someone who actually purchased one of the phones with their own money.
Some companies are already taking action. Nokia, for example, is not allowing any applications to be loaded onto some of their newest phones unless they have a digital signature that can be traced back to a known developer. While this makes such a phone less than ?totally open,? we believe it is a step in the right direction. We are working on an advanced system which will offer developers broad access to natively program the iPhone?s amazing software platform while at the same time protecting users from malicious programs.
The devil will be in the details behind this statement. Just wait.
It *is* Apple, and it *is* Steve Jobs in the captain's chair...
You starting in with that again!
*slap*
This might be a stupid question... but does anyone think this is the sort of developement that might mean Mail for the ipod touch? and can anyone access .mac mail via safari on their Touch?
That is a stupid question, you are very very stupid
You may be right though
Reasons why SDK wasn't announced before:
- Need to shake out the bugs.
- iPod Touch is mentioned and Apple did not want to "show their hand".
- Some features are dependent on Leopard (Xcode 3.0/Obj-C 2.0) so it couldn't be released until Leopard was released.
- Steve wanted to surprise us at MWSF.
Reasons why SDK was announced now:#1 reason SDK wasn't announced before is due to lack of developers.
Well, of course. The people that the iPhone does not satisfy aren't going to buy one. For some of us (like myself) we love a load of features such as multitouch, decent syncing, the whole iTunes bit... but find some other bits so critically lacking that we can't buy the phone and be happy overall. For me, allowing third party apps will solve all my major criticisms with iPhone except the lack of 3G.
Amorya
And THAT is why I consider it "complaining". Of all the phones on the market and all the manufactures making phones, Apple was the ONE manufacturer that came under fire for not providing the whiners with their "perfect phone experience".
Why is that? Perhaps 'cause Apple came the closest so far to making the perfect phone? And for that it deserves all the crap?
Damn. Let's just sue them.
My concern is that Apple may be reacting too much to the pressure and releasing the keys to the kingdom too early.
I want them to lock this baby down like a drum before they start letting every malware author take their crack.
Ever heard the phrase, "you don't take candy from strangers"?
How about YOU don't install apps from unknown authors?
Opening up to 3rd party apps certainly makes the current software differences between the iPhone and the iPod touch all the more confusing. Does Apple really want 3rd parties developing Notes, Calendaring, Mail, weather, etc. applications for the iPod touch? That is what is bound to happen if the current differences stay in place.
Now, I have to decide if I want to change carriers and get an iPhone, or if I should just go with the iPod touch.
So how long after Feb. for M$ to build Outlook w/ Exchange for iPhone?
<Squirt!>
Right after they finish their VirtualZune emulator product.
--
Squirted from my ZunePhone
</Squirt!>
It *is* Apple, and it *is* Steve Jobs in the captain's chair...
I'm getting SOOOOO sick of this Jobs bashing.
I've been using products he's brought to market for close to 30 years now and have always gotten WAY more than my money's worth.
He's apparently a jerk as a person. So were Jackson Pollock and Mozart.
The guy's brought a whole new level of art to technology.
I laugh hysterically at losers calling for his ouster as CEO.