Unless I missed it in the headline, Apple should have told their employees ahead of time that they were not to request the credit. Yes, it was a free phone, but I can totally see someone thinking they could apply for this (no, I don't agree with that, I just can see someone thinking it was OK). Apple could have avoided confusion with a simply memo to all of it employees. I find it hard to believe that Apple did in fact distribute any kind of notice if 800 employees tried to take advantage of this, nor can I believe that all 800 employees knowingly did something wrong.
What a load of bollocks - seems a pretty obvious rort.
I do not think that Apple would be so stupid that they would fire a person just for filing for a $100 refund (even for a gift).
This will soon be proven as a modern myth.
Some people might have really abused the refund deal - by filing multiple requests for store phones.
Those (few) people might have gotten fired. A handful - not hundreds.
Hiring and training personnel is a costly thing. As a shareholder I would think firing people for an act that is in the grey zone (i.e. filing for their own phone) would be plain stupid - both from a employer-employee-relations perspective and from an economical view.
A warning - yes.
A "the $100 you got will be withdrawn from your next salary" - probably.
A pink iSlip (for not reading the small print) - hopefully not.
The true reason is probably Apple getting rid of personnel not needed any longer.
The issue of an employee that was given a free iPhone by the company also trying to claim the $100 refund is not in any way a gray area; it is incredibly clear on an ethical scale. Common sense and decency should inform any employee as such. On top of that the refund policy clearly spells it out: no employee given an iPhone by the company is eligible for a refund. Then there is the fact that any employee with doubts can just ask management for clarification.
The bottom line is that any employee seeking out the refund on a free phone is acting dishonestly, and there is no excuse for their behavior. They deserve to be fired.
The article says that Mac sales in August were way up.
Check out any college campus in the country. It's crazy how many notebook computers that sport that iconic apple on the back. I would dare to say that at my school, about 20-30 percent are Macs.
Regarding the firing of the 800 employees... ah, NOW it makes sense.
To wit, I was on the campus of DeAnza college in the Silicon Valley the other day, and there was a booth out with a (rather pushy) lady RECRUITING people to work in Apple retail!
I thought to myself, "Hmm, why would they be desperate to get more people... are they expanding the number of stores very rapidly or something? We already have a lot of Apple Stores in the Bay Area, after all."
Now we know why... to replace the firees. Classy move, Apple. \
Don't get me wrong, I think the firees shouldn't have tried to cheat Apple... but if you were to ask me if Stevie J knew about the whole backdating of options thing while it was going on, I'd have to smile.
Let's just say I think that, like most corporations, there's probably two sets of rules going on at Apple....one for the big boys, and one for everyone else. The diff is, the big boys get to cheat with amounts way bigger than $100.
Unless I missed it in the headline, Apple should have told their employees ahead of time that they were not to request the credit. Yes, it was a free phone, but I can totally see someone thinking they could apply for this (no, I don't agree with that, I just can see someone thinking it was OK). Apple could have avoided confusion with a simply memo to all of it employees. I find it hard to believe that Apple did in fact distribute any kind of notice if 800 employees tried to take advantage of this, nor can I believe that all 800 employees knowingly did something wrong.
The travesty is that there are probably some workers who requested a $100 refund because their coworker peer pressure, and did so with a nagging conscience. Unfortunately, they have now learned a hard lesson too.
Third, I would bet that anyone trying to unjustly claim their $100 refund would get fired, even a software developer working on Leopard. Of course, most of those higher up in the company aren't so stupid or needy of an extra 100 bucks to even attempt that. I hardly think the lead programmer on Leopard, for instance, would even think of such a thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Let's just say I think that, like most corporations, there's probably two sets of rules going on at Apple....one for the big boys, and one for everyone else. The diff is, the big boys get to cheat with amounts way bigger than $100.
...
I have to laugh at the idea of a valued software developer getting fired for this. To replace a retail person even a genius would not be that hard. Replacing software developers is harder. There is two sets of rules for people, it is a cold hard fact of life. Some people are more expendable.
Unless I missed it in the headline, Apple should have told their employees ahead of time that they were not to request the credit. Yes, it was a free phone, but I can totally see someone thinking they could apply for this (no, I don't agree with that, I just can see someone thinking it was OK). Apple could have avoided confusion with a simply memo to all of it employees. I find it hard to believe that Apple did in fact distribute any kind of notice if 800 employees tried to take advantage of this, nor can I believe that all 800 employees knowingly did something wrong.
As a former Apple employee, I can tell you that there is NO WAY that Apple didn't send a memo to every employee warning them that they were inelligible for this rebate. That's just the way the company operates. Having said that, I find the story hard to believe anyway. I do know that as a retail endeavour grows as quickly as Apple's has, it becomes incredibly more difficult to find qualified, honest staff members, particularly at the lower rungs of the ladder.
Staffing the first ten stores was a piece of cake. Sooner or later, though, your best staff either gets promoted or moves on to bigger and better things.
Retail in general expects 80% or more of its staff to steal from the company at some point. That's factored into the cost of doing business. I don't know where Apple Retail is now, but a few years ago it was way below average in this regard (meaning far fewer stole from the company). I figured they couldn't keep that up forever. But I still doubt the accuracy of this story.
So if you got an iphone as a gift, you aren't entitled to the refund? And fire 800 people because of it?
Seems full to the brim of BS to me. Unless there was a company memo that expressly said not to try for the refund.
Should there be a company memo also forbidding stealing?. Or how about a company memo forbidding greed. I am with Apple on this one.. sorry your cousin or brother or whatever relative you have working for apple got canned. In case your brother or cousin still feel enraged, tell them to look up the meaning of the word "refund" or "Reimburse". It doesn't matter how apple chose to implement the refund.. one cannot have a refund for something that one did not pay for. I think that would have been common sense 101
I do not think that Apple would be so stupid that they would fire a person just for filing for a $100 refund (even for a gift).
This will soon be proven as a modern myth.
Some people might have really abused the refund deal - by filing multiple requests for store phones.
Those (few) people might have gotten fired. A handful - not hundreds.
Hiring and training personnel is a costly thing. As a shareholder I would think firing people for an act that is in the grey zone (i.e. filing for their own phone) would be plain stupid - both from a employer-employee-relations perspective and from an economical view.
A warning - yes.
A "the $100 you got will be withdrawn from your next salary" - probably.
A pink iSlip (for not reading the small print) - hopefully not.
The true reason is probably Apple getting rid of personnel not needed any longer.
I disagree.. Fraud in a retail environment is extremely serious. The number one issue for all retailers (not just apple) is fraud. If i were running a retail operation, i wouldn't tolerate it for a second. I'd fire an employee for stealing even $10. Wanna know why?.. cause for every theft you discover, there is 10 you did not discover.. you think this is the first time these employees have been dishonest?. Maybe for a few but the majority have probably been dishonest before.. as soon as you catch them, can them. Dishonesty in the workplace, especially theft in a retail environment is not tolerable
So if you got an iphone as a gift, you aren't entitled to the refund? And fire 800 people because of it?
Seems full to the brim of BS to me. Unless there was a company memo that expressly said not to try for the refund.
I disagree. The spirit of the $100 discount was to offer some sort of apology (perhaps not right word) to those who purchased the phone only a few months earlier (or less).
It was not intended for someone who got the phone free from Apple. I think every reasonable person knows this. Who reading this article didn't think that the employees were finding a loophole to scam the $100 credit?
It is just short of stealing. They should be fired or at the very least reprimanded.
I agree, that's a bit ridiculous. Perhaps quietly asking the employees to give back the $100 would have been more apt, as they never explicitly said that they couldn't claim the refund. Then there's the double-edged sword...they knew the phone was a gift, but still claimed the money on it. Hmm...I still don't think firing the employees was a good idea.
Again, we all know right from wrong even if there isn't a sign in front of our face telling us it is wrong. They were wrong and I am sure they knew it as they did it.
but if you were to ask me if Stevie J knew about the whole backdating of options thing while it was going on, I'd have to smile.
...
#1 - It's already been disclosed that Steve knew about the backdating
#2 - Steve didn't receive any of the backdated options
#3 - Backdating options is not illegal as long as the accounting is done properly
What apple did wrong was they didn't do the accounting right on the backdating. The person responsible for the accounting, Apple's CFO at the time, resigned from Apple's board and no longer works for the company.
I disagree. The spirit of the $100 discount was to offer some sort of apology (perhaps not right word) to those who purchased the phone only a few months earlier (or less).
It was not intended for someone who got the phone free from Apple. I think every reasonable person knows this. Who reading this article didn't think that the employees were finding a loophole to scam the $100 credit?
It is just short of stealing. They should be fired or at the very least reprimanded.
It's not just short of stealing, it is stealing. And in multiple places in the refund agreement, it's made clear that they are not eligible. Including the very first line of the rebate page
also, I find the talk about inflection point the more interesting part of this story. I've been thinking for a while now that the seemingly large growth rates apple is seeing could be just the tip of the iceberg.
Call it an inflection point or call it critical mass, but i think Apple is approaching a point where their market share growth could really take off. I won't be surprised at all to see Apple really start to close in on the unit shipments of Dell and HP because they can sell something Dell can't - Leopard. And with all of the anticipation behind Leopard, there really hasn't been much talk about the impact of better iPhone integration. Seemingly everyone wants an iPhone and the iPhone should have an even greater halo effect on Mac sales than the iPod has had.
Comments
Translation: We are about to announce an xMac!
*SLAP*
Well, it appears that Apple did not build a check
Hmmm, what if that was by design, to weed out all non-hackers who were not fit to serve in the beloved Apple corps.
Unless I missed it in the headline, Apple should have told their employees ahead of time that they were not to request the credit. Yes, it was a free phone, but I can totally see someone thinking they could apply for this (no, I don't agree with that, I just can see someone thinking it was OK). Apple could have avoided confusion with a simply memo to all of it employees. I find it hard to believe that Apple did in fact distribute any kind of notice if 800 employees tried to take advantage of this, nor can I believe that all 800 employees knowingly did something wrong.
What a load of bollocks - seems a pretty obvious rort.
This will soon be proven as a modern myth.
Some people might have really abused the refund deal - by filing multiple requests for store phones.
Those (few) people might have gotten fired. A handful - not hundreds.
Hiring and training personnel is a costly thing. As a shareholder I would think firing people for an act that is in the grey zone (i.e. filing for their own phone) would be plain stupid - both from a employer-employee-relations perspective and from an economical view.
A warning - yes.
A "the $100 you got will be withdrawn from your next salary" - probably.
A pink iSlip (for not reading the small print) - hopefully not.
The true reason is probably Apple getting rid of personnel not needed any longer.
The bottom line is that any employee seeking out the refund on a free phone is acting dishonestly, and there is no excuse for their behavior. They deserve to be fired.
Check out any college campus in the country. It's crazy how many notebook computers that sport that iconic apple on the back. I would dare to say that at my school, about 20-30 percent are Macs.
To wit, I was on the campus of DeAnza college in the Silicon Valley the other day, and there was a booth out with a (rather pushy) lady RECRUITING people to work in Apple retail!
I thought to myself, "Hmm, why would they be desperate to get more people... are they expanding the number of stores very rapidly or something? We already have a lot of Apple Stores in the Bay Area, after all."
Now we know why... to replace the firees. Classy move, Apple.
Don't get me wrong, I think the firees shouldn't have tried to cheat Apple... but if you were to ask me if Stevie J knew about the whole backdating of options thing while it was going on, I'd have to smile.
Let's just say I think that, like most corporations, there's probably two sets of rules going on at Apple....one for the big boys, and one for everyone else. The diff is, the big boys get to cheat with amounts way bigger than $100.
...
Unless I missed it in the headline, Apple should have told their employees ahead of time that they were not to request the credit. Yes, it was a free phone, but I can totally see someone thinking they could apply for this (no, I don't agree with that, I just can see someone thinking it was OK). Apple could have avoided confusion with a simply memo to all of it employees. I find it hard to believe that Apple did in fact distribute any kind of notice if 800 employees tried to take advantage of this, nor can I believe that all 800 employees knowingly did something wrong.
Boy am I glad you don't run the company .
Third, I would bet that anyone trying to unjustly claim their $100 refund would get fired, even a software developer working on Leopard. Of course, most of those higher up in the company aren't so stupid or needy of an extra 100 bucks to even attempt that. I hardly think the lead programmer on Leopard, for instance, would even think of such a thing.
Let's just say I think that, like most corporations, there's probably two sets of rules going on at Apple....one for the big boys, and one for everyone else. The diff is, the big boys get to cheat with amounts way bigger than $100.
...
I have to laugh at the idea of a valued software developer getting fired for this. To replace a retail person even a genius would not be that hard. Replacing software developers is harder. There is two sets of rules for people, it is a cold hard fact of life. Some people are more expendable.
Unless I missed it in the headline, Apple should have told their employees ahead of time that they were not to request the credit. Yes, it was a free phone, but I can totally see someone thinking they could apply for this (no, I don't agree with that, I just can see someone thinking it was OK). Apple could have avoided confusion with a simply memo to all of it employees. I find it hard to believe that Apple did in fact distribute any kind of notice if 800 employees tried to take advantage of this, nor can I believe that all 800 employees knowingly did something wrong.
As a former Apple employee, I can tell you that there is NO WAY that Apple didn't send a memo to every employee warning them that they were inelligible for this rebate. That's just the way the company operates. Having said that, I find the story hard to believe anyway. I do know that as a retail endeavour grows as quickly as Apple's has, it becomes incredibly more difficult to find qualified, honest staff members, particularly at the lower rungs of the ladder.
Staffing the first ten stores was a piece of cake. Sooner or later, though, your best staff either gets promoted or moves on to bigger and better things.
Retail in general expects 80% or more of its staff to steal from the company at some point. That's factored into the cost of doing business. I don't know where Apple Retail is now, but a few years ago it was way below average in this regard (meaning far fewer stole from the company). I figured they couldn't keep that up forever. But I still doubt the accuracy of this story.
So if you got an iphone as a gift, you aren't entitled to the refund? And fire 800 people because of it?
Seems full to the brim of BS to me. Unless there was a company memo that expressly said not to try for the refund.
Should there be a company memo also forbidding stealing?. Or how about a company memo forbidding greed. I am with Apple on this one.. sorry your cousin or brother or whatever relative you have working for apple got canned. In case your brother or cousin still feel enraged, tell them to look up the meaning of the word "refund" or "Reimburse". It doesn't matter how apple chose to implement the refund.. one cannot have a refund for something that one did not pay for. I think that would have been common sense 101
I do not think that Apple would be so stupid that they would fire a person just for filing for a $100 refund (even for a gift).
This will soon be proven as a modern myth.
Some people might have really abused the refund deal - by filing multiple requests for store phones.
Those (few) people might have gotten fired. A handful - not hundreds.
Hiring and training personnel is a costly thing. As a shareholder I would think firing people for an act that is in the grey zone (i.e. filing for their own phone) would be plain stupid - both from a employer-employee-relations perspective and from an economical view.
A warning - yes.
A "the $100 you got will be withdrawn from your next salary" - probably.
A pink iSlip (for not reading the small print) - hopefully not.
The true reason is probably Apple getting rid of personnel not needed any longer.
I disagree.. Fraud in a retail environment is extremely serious. The number one issue for all retailers (not just apple) is fraud. If i were running a retail operation, i wouldn't tolerate it for a second. I'd fire an employee for stealing even $10. Wanna know why?.. cause for every theft you discover, there is 10 you did not discover.. you think this is the first time these employees have been dishonest?. Maybe for a few but the majority have probably been dishonest before.. as soon as you catch them, can them. Dishonesty in the workplace, especially theft in a retail environment is not tolerable
So if you got an iphone as a gift, you aren't entitled to the refund? And fire 800 people because of it?
Seems full to the brim of BS to me. Unless there was a company memo that expressly said not to try for the refund.
I disagree. The spirit of the $100 discount was to offer some sort of apology (perhaps not right word) to those who purchased the phone only a few months earlier (or less).
It was not intended for someone who got the phone free from Apple. I think every reasonable person knows this. Who reading this article didn't think that the employees were finding a loophole to scam the $100 credit?
It is just short of stealing. They should be fired or at the very least reprimanded.
I agree, that's a bit ridiculous. Perhaps quietly asking the employees to give back the $100 would have been more apt, as they never explicitly said that they couldn't claim the refund. Then there's the double-edged sword...they knew the phone was a gift, but still claimed the money on it. Hmm...I still don't think firing the employees was a good idea.
Again, we all know right from wrong even if there isn't a sign in front of our face telling us it is wrong. They were wrong and I am sure they knew it as they did it.
but if you were to ask me if Stevie J knew about the whole backdating of options thing while it was going on, I'd have to smile.
...
#1 - It's already been disclosed that Steve knew about the backdating
#2 - Steve didn't receive any of the backdated options
#3 - Backdating options is not illegal as long as the accounting is done properly
What apple did wrong was they didn't do the accounting right on the backdating. The person responsible for the accounting, Apple's CFO at the time, resigned from Apple's board and no longer works for the company.
I disagree. The spirit of the $100 discount was to offer some sort of apology (perhaps not right word) to those who purchased the phone only a few months earlier (or less).
It was not intended for someone who got the phone free from Apple. I think every reasonable person knows this. Who reading this article didn't think that the employees were finding a loophole to scam the $100 credit?
It is just short of stealing. They should be fired or at the very least reprimanded.
It's not just short of stealing, it is stealing. And in multiple places in the refund agreement, it's made clear that they are not eligible. Including the very first line of the rebate page
If you bought your iPhone before August 22
Call it an inflection point or call it critical mass, but i think Apple is approaching a point where their market share growth could really take off. I won't be surprised at all to see Apple really start to close in on the unit shipments of Dell and HP because they can sell something Dell can't - Leopard. And with all of the anticipation behind Leopard, there really hasn't been much talk about the impact of better iPhone integration. Seemingly everyone wants an iPhone and the iPhone should have an even greater halo effect on Mac sales than the iPod has had.