Well, I really don't care about the milliseconds I will save by using the keyboard shortcuts. I want to be able to do browsing without using keyboard. A mouse must be enough, when using the bookmarks. BUT, the thing is, no matter who is right, that doesn't matter, because it's up to a choice, and Safari doesn't give that choice.
Abster2core explained it to you. If you have a button on your mouse set up for
control-clicking, just click and hold on the blank tab area and a menu drops
down with the choices "new tab" and "reload all tabs". Drag to "new tab" and
release the button. You do have the choice of not using the keyboard.
[QUOTE=And last but not least, it doesn't have a "new tab" button!!! This stubbornness is killing me, Apple! Just put a damn button on the toolbar!!![/QUOTE]
i agree, a new tab button should be standard on safari, but there is a third party solution. if you download SafariStand from versiontracker.com and follow the instructions to install it, "new tab" will be amongst the buttons you can load when you customize your toolbar. the program has other features, but i've found this to be the one i use the most.
before reading this talkback string, however, i didn't realize you could right click where there isn't a tab to get a new tab. that would work also, however it may pose a problem when you've populated the entire tab area with tabs...where would you right click in that case?
anyway, safaristand works for me, if only for the new tab button. i'm sure it does a lot more too.
just to clarify, i'm not using safari 3 beta. i'm on safari 2. i don't know if there are any issues with 3. i'm also on a PPC mac, so i don't know if there are any universal binary issues.
What happened the the anti-phishing features that appeared early on in the the Safari 3 builds? They were looking really promising... I think it was AppleInsider that posted the screenshots of Safari with these features. Did Apple cut them?
What happened the the anti-phishing features that appeared early on in the the Safari 3 builds? They were looking really promising... I think it was AppleInsider that posted the screenshots of Safari with these features. Did Apple cut them?
Well, I really don't care about the milliseconds I will save by using the keyboard shortcuts. I want to be able to do browsing without using keyboard. A mouse must be enough, when using the bookmarks. BUT, the thing is, no matter who is right, that doesn't matter, because it's up to a choice, and Safari doesn't give that choice.
The button I am talking about is not an unusual one. Every browser except Safari has it, and it's one of the main and most used buttons.
Right-click the tab. Works like a button to me.
I don't use Firefox. Where is the new tab button?
Nevermind. Found it.
So you would foresake Safari because it doesn't have a New Tab Button? But you would move your mouse from one side of your screen to the other rather than right-click the mouse?
Please don't bother to respond. I was just talking to myself.
Hold down the control key and click a tab and you get more choices, click in a blank 'tab' area and you get one choice.
As the adage goes, the more choices, the longer it takes to make a decision.
For speed, simplicity and a cleaner interface, buttons are kept to a minimum. That's basic, good, application design.
For sure, command-t, as well as, command-n, command-l and even command-o are significantly faster than any button could be, and thank heavens Safari isn't cluttered with them.
In case people didn't notice, every browser (including Safari) has the option to pick and choose which buttons you want. For example, I find the Print button to be completely stupid and hide it almost immediately. So how hard is it to add a button to safari's button options? Hell, they still have one for "Report a bug" (how problematic is Safari that they're still concerned about problem web sites?). And, for some reason, no one complains about the utter overflowing of command-key shortcuts, even though Apple's keyboard doesn't even have the glyphs on them to match to the shortcut (so, what does a caret mean?)
The find also has all these options as well. I don't see people complaining about having the option to have a button for Burn or Trash or Contextual Menu or Hierarchy or whatever.
BTW, I don't recall Firefox having the button, only because I recall having to download an extension to add one (yes, I use one in Firefox, so he's not the only one who likes it).
Tabs are retarded anyways. Why put a button to increase this bad habit? Tabs should remain tucked away to prevent the general public from decreasing their ability to multitask. You can leave that stuff to Windows and MDI apps. Everytime I say that word, MDI, I feel like punching the person that created the concept right in the face.
To those who haven't gotten into the habit of doing tabbed browsing, you'll be much happier with a Spaces/Exposé combination. Make a space, lock Safari to it, open new windows to your heart's content and use Exposé. It's like tabs...only it's visual.
Hold down the control key and click a tab and you get more choices, click in a blank 'tab' area and you get one choice.
As the adage goes, the more choices, the longer it takes to make a decision.
A button is pretty much the simplest possible way to access this feature.
Quote:
For speed, simplicity and a cleaner interface, buttons are kept to a minimum. That's basic, good, application design.
Buttons are optional, so this has absolutely nothing to do with application design. Thanks to "Customize Toolbar...", Apple doesn't have to keep them to a minimum -- otherwise why would we have such obscure and infrequently used buttons as Bug Reporting, Webclip and Autofill? If those are permitted, something as basic and essential as tab creation is an absolute no-brainer, even if if it's not there by default.
I would go further though, to say that if you're going to be touting an important new navigation-oriented feature in a web browser, it belongs as a toolbar default. I am not positive since I haven't used Leopard, but the previews I've seen make it look like Webclip will be part of the default set. Well, the tabbed browsing improvements in 3.0 are going to be much more useful to the average user than Webclip.
Tabs are retarded anyways. Why put a button to increase this bad habit? Tabs should remain tucked away to prevent the general public from decreasing their ability to multitask. You can leave that stuff to Windows and MDI apps. Everytime I say that word, MDI, I feel like punching the person that created the concept right in the face.
To those who haven't gotten into the habit of doing tabbed browsing, you'll be much happier with a Spaces/Exposé combination. Make a space, lock Safari to it, open new windows to your heart's content and use Exposé. It's like tabs...only it's visual.
Tabs are not quite the MDI of Windows. The trouble with MDI was that there was no easy way to quickly access an open document if another document already filled the screen -- you always had to go through multiple steps, as in checking a menu, finding a titlebar name that hopefully represented the document you're looking for, then selecting the document (of course, if they were NOT maximized, this was not so much an issue). Exposé and multiple windows is no different in that sense since it requires two steps -- a keyboard or mouse shortcut to enter Exposé, then selecting the window you want. That's great if all your windows are easily distinguishable, you don't have so many open that it becomes hard to make out the contents, and your system can handle the overhead of having that many windows open simultaneously (much less that of Exposé itself). I can tell you from using a Mac mini that more windows = slower and slower Exposé, and that lots and lots of primarily text webpages reduced to tiny thumbnails on a dark background don't make it any easier. They actually make it harder, because I then have to mouse over each one to find the title that represents the correct window.
People use tabs because they reduce clutter and the need for manual window management (I like seeing my desktop, tyvm, I don't need to rearrange all my windows so they're on top of each other). They don't duplicate resources or screen space unnecessarily (each window is another toolbar, possibly another bookmark bar), and they allow grouping of pages (like Spaces, in a sense). If you're already browsing, tabs are always on screen -- there are no extra steps to take, no application switcher to launch, no menu to look through (unless you've launched an absurd number of tabs, of course). These attributes make them ideal for multitasking, at least in a web browsing environment.
Tabs are retarded anyways. Why put a button to increase this bad habit? Tabs should remain tucked away to prevent the general public from decreasing their ability to multitask. You can leave that stuff to Windows and MDI apps. Everytime I say that word, MDI, I feel like punching the person that created the concept right in the face.
To those who haven't gotten into the habit of doing tabbed browsing, you'll be much happier with a Spaces/Exposé combination. Make a space, lock Safari to it, open new windows to your heart's content and use Exposé. It's like tabs...only it's visual.
just to clarify, i'm not using safari 3 beta. i'm on safari 2. i don't know if there are any issues with 3. i'm also on a PPC mac, so i don't know if there are any universal binary issues.
I couldn't find an extension for Safari 3 yet. I wish we didn't need one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianus
Buttons are optional, so this has absolutely nothing to do with application design. Thanks to "Customize Toolbar...", Apple doesn't have to keep them to a minimum -- otherwise why would we have such obscure and infrequently used buttons as Bug Reporting, Webclip and Autofill? If those are permitted, something as basic and essential as tab creation is an absolute no-brainer, even if if it's not there by default..
Thanks for explaining. I don't know why people/Apple try to force their preferences onto other people.
So you would foresake Safari because it doesn't have a New Tab Button? But you would move your mouse from one side of your screen to the other rather than right-click the mouse?
Please don't bother to respond. I was just talking to myself.
Well, I did it for other reasons. Refer to my first post. Safari is not near Firefox as a browser. And this makes me sad.
I just had to register over here to help those ppl out who cant live with a new-tab button.
Seriously: When you open a new tab, WHAT you want to achieve in 98% ?
Lemme guess: type in an url and press enter to visit that page.
And now think for a while, .. if u type in that url,.. maybe it isn't such a bad decision to leave out a stupid button that clutters things, because: you need to move your hands to the keyboard nonetheless if you open a new tab and want to do sth with it!
I use Safari mostly for the speed. Camino was just too slow when I wanted to view Flash pages (even with Flash blocking on). Ad-blocking with PithHelmet is nice, and you can actually double-click the tab bar to open new tabs and close them with the scroll wheel with Twicetab.
Crazy little nob thingy, AKA the Nubbin, AKA the, well, it's a little risque so it's best left to the reader's imagination. LOL
Again, the whole keyboard shortcut versus mouse stuff (buttons or click actions) is really about choice. If my hand is on the mouse don't force me to go to the keyboard. Maybe I'm lounging with my feet up on the desk, maybe I'm drinking coffee. Don't force me turn around, put down the mug of caffeinated goodness, just because there's no button.
Sure, hide the button by default or turn off actions by default. I don't mind. Make the interface as clean and simple as possible. Great.
But I like choices as much as I like options, which is just as much as I like customizations.
+++
1. Choices are a good thing.
2. Sometimes you have to compromise. But then try to do it the right way. There are keyboard-centric applications like word processing where people are probably craving for kb shortcuts. Then there are kiosk-like applications where people are likely to just point and klick all the time because that's the only way to follow links anyway, or because they're sitting on the couch with just their wireless mouse. That's when you definitely DON'T want to HAVE TO press keys for anything.
Macs and OSX are great, but in that regard Apple has made a few stupid decisions. Hey, a one-button mouse is sure simpler of course than a two-button mouse, but only as long as you don't have to abuse that single button by long-pressing it or Ctrl/Cmd-clicking with it or (in case of a touchpad) making strange double-finger-touch-he-touchpad-and-press-button-at-the-same-time actions. Or all these Cmd-W and Cmd-Q actions. Main problem is they aren't visible.
I really liked all the AI articles on the new Leopard features, but this one was definitely the least interestin one. Even though there was only 1 out of three pages on Safari 3, they filled half of it with Safari 1+2.
It's of course not AI's fault it's just that Safari is one of the less interesting new features of Leopard.
Comments
Well, I really don't care about the milliseconds I will save by using the keyboard shortcuts. I want to be able to do browsing without using keyboard. A mouse must be enough, when using the bookmarks. BUT, the thing is, no matter who is right, that doesn't matter, because it's up to a choice, and Safari doesn't give that choice.
Abster2core explained it to you. If you have a button on your mouse set up for
control-clicking, just click and hold on the blank tab area and a menu drops
down with the choices "new tab" and "reload all tabs". Drag to "new tab" and
release the button. You do have the choice of not using the keyboard.
i agree, a new tab button should be standard on safari, but there is a third party solution. if you download SafariStand from versiontracker.com and follow the instructions to install it, "new tab" will be amongst the buttons you can load when you customize your toolbar. the program has other features, but i've found this to be the one i use the most.
before reading this talkback string, however, i didn't realize you could right click where there isn't a tab to get a new tab. that would work also, however it may pose a problem when you've populated the entire tab area with tabs...where would you right click in that case?
anyway, safaristand works for me, if only for the new tab button. i'm sure it does a lot more too.
just to clarify, i'm not using safari 3 beta. i'm on safari 2. i don't know if there are any issues with 3. i'm also on a PPC mac, so i don't know if there are any universal binary issues.
Edit: Here's the article on TUAW
http://www.tuaw.com/2006/10/19/scree...leopard-build/
What happened the the anti-phishing features that appeared early on in the the Safari 3 builds? They were looking really promising... I think it was AppleInsider that posted the screenshots of Safari with these features. Did Apple cut them?
Edit: Here's the article on TUAW
http://www.tuaw.com/2006/10/19/scree...leopard-build/
Same here, I wonder what happened to them. Someone earlier mentioned privacy concerns with sending URLs to google...... ?
Well, I really don't care about the milliseconds I will save by using the keyboard shortcuts. I want to be able to do browsing without using keyboard. A mouse must be enough, when using the bookmarks. BUT, the thing is, no matter who is right, that doesn't matter, because it's up to a choice, and Safari doesn't give that choice.
The button I am talking about is not an unusual one. Every browser except Safari has it, and it's one of the main and most used buttons.
Right-click the tab. Works like a button to me.
I don't use Firefox. Where is the new tab button?
Nevermind. Found it.
So you would foresake Safari because it doesn't have a New Tab Button? But you would move your mouse from one side of your screen to the other rather than right-click the mouse?
Please don't bother to respond. I was just talking to myself.
Hold down the control key and click a tab and you get more choices, click in a blank 'tab' area and you get one choice.
As the adage goes, the more choices, the longer it takes to make a decision.
For speed, simplicity and a cleaner interface, buttons are kept to a minimum. That's basic, good, application design.
For sure, command-t, as well as, command-n, command-l and even command-o are significantly faster than any button could be, and thank heavens Safari isn't cluttered with them.
In case people didn't notice, every browser (including Safari) has the option to pick and choose which buttons you want. For example, I find the Print button to be completely stupid and hide it almost immediately. So how hard is it to add a button to safari's button options? Hell, they still have one for "Report a bug" (how problematic is Safari that they're still concerned about problem web sites?). And, for some reason, no one complains about the utter overflowing of command-key shortcuts, even though Apple's keyboard doesn't even have the glyphs on them to match to the shortcut (so, what does a caret mean?)
The find also has all these options as well. I don't see people complaining about having the option to have a button for Burn or Trash or Contextual Menu or Hierarchy or whatever.
BTW, I don't recall Firefox having the button, only because I recall having to download an extension to add one (yes, I use one in Firefox, so he's not the only one who likes it).
To those who haven't gotten into the habit of doing tabbed browsing, you'll be much happier with a Spaces/Exposé combination. Make a space, lock Safari to it, open new windows to your heart's content and use Exposé. It's like tabs...only it's visual.
Right-click the tab. Works like a button to me.
I don't use Firefox. Where is the new tab button?
Right-click? Where right-click on my MBP? Or my Mac, for that matter? Oh, its some "new" invention of apple's they've recently added?
Hold down the control key and click a tab and you get more choices, click in a blank 'tab' area and you get one choice.
As the adage goes, the more choices, the longer it takes to make a decision.
A button is pretty much the simplest possible way to access this feature.
For speed, simplicity and a cleaner interface, buttons are kept to a minimum. That's basic, good, application design.
Buttons are optional, so this has absolutely nothing to do with application design. Thanks to "Customize Toolbar...", Apple doesn't have to keep them to a minimum -- otherwise why would we have such obscure and infrequently used buttons as Bug Reporting, Webclip and Autofill? If those are permitted, something as basic and essential as tab creation is an absolute no-brainer, even if if it's not there by default.
I would go further though, to say that if you're going to be touting an important new navigation-oriented feature in a web browser, it belongs as a toolbar default. I am not positive since I haven't used Leopard, but the previews I've seen make it look like Webclip will be part of the default set. Well, the tabbed browsing improvements in 3.0 are going to be much more useful to the average user than Webclip.
Right-click? Where right-click on my MBP? Or my Mac, for that matter? Oh, its some "new" invention of apple's they've recently added?
We have been talking about buttons using a mouse, not the trackpad.
Now if it was the trackpad, using a keyboard command in lieu of a button is a no brainer.
Tabs are retarded anyways. Why put a button to increase this bad habit? Tabs should remain tucked away to prevent the general public from decreasing their ability to multitask. You can leave that stuff to Windows and MDI apps. Everytime I say that word, MDI, I feel like punching the person that created the concept right in the face.
To those who haven't gotten into the habit of doing tabbed browsing, you'll be much happier with a Spaces/Exposé combination. Make a space, lock Safari to it, open new windows to your heart's content and use Exposé. It's like tabs...only it's visual.
Tabs are not quite the MDI of Windows. The trouble with MDI was that there was no easy way to quickly access an open document if another document already filled the screen -- you always had to go through multiple steps, as in checking a menu, finding a titlebar name that hopefully represented the document you're looking for, then selecting the document (of course, if they were NOT maximized, this was not so much an issue). Exposé and multiple windows is no different in that sense since it requires two steps -- a keyboard or mouse shortcut to enter Exposé, then selecting the window you want. That's great if all your windows are easily distinguishable, you don't have so many open that it becomes hard to make out the contents, and your system can handle the overhead of having that many windows open simultaneously (much less that of Exposé itself). I can tell you from using a Mac mini that more windows = slower and slower Exposé, and that lots and lots of primarily text webpages reduced to tiny thumbnails on a dark background don't make it any easier. They actually make it harder, because I then have to mouse over each one to find the title that represents the correct window.
People use tabs because they reduce clutter and the need for manual window management (I like seeing my desktop, tyvm, I don't need to rearrange all my windows so they're on top of each other). They don't duplicate resources or screen space unnecessarily (each window is another toolbar, possibly another bookmark bar), and they allow grouping of pages (like Spaces, in a sense). If you're already browsing, tabs are always on screen -- there are no extra steps to take, no application switcher to launch, no menu to look through (unless you've launched an absurd number of tabs, of course). These attributes make them ideal for multitasking, at least in a web browsing environment.
Tabs are retarded anyways. Why put a button to increase this bad habit? Tabs should remain tucked away to prevent the general public from decreasing their ability to multitask. You can leave that stuff to Windows and MDI apps. Everytime I say that word, MDI, I feel like punching the person that created the concept right in the face.
To those who haven't gotten into the habit of doing tabbed browsing, you'll be much happier with a Spaces/Exposé combination. Make a space, lock Safari to it, open new windows to your heart's content and use Exposé. It's like tabs...only it's visual.
What color is the sky in your world?
just to clarify, i'm not using safari 3 beta. i'm on safari 2. i don't know if there are any issues with 3. i'm also on a PPC mac, so i don't know if there are any universal binary issues.
I couldn't find an extension for Safari 3 yet. I wish we didn't need one!
Buttons are optional, so this has absolutely nothing to do with application design. Thanks to "Customize Toolbar...", Apple doesn't have to keep them to a minimum -- otherwise why would we have such obscure and infrequently used buttons as Bug Reporting, Webclip and Autofill? If those are permitted, something as basic and essential as tab creation is an absolute no-brainer, even if if it's not there by default..
Thanks for explaining. I don't know why people/Apple try to force their preferences onto other people.
So you would foresake Safari because it doesn't have a New Tab Button? But you would move your mouse from one side of your screen to the other rather than right-click the mouse?
Please don't bother to respond. I was just talking to myself.
Well, I did it for other reasons. Refer to my first post. Safari is not near Firefox as a browser. And this makes me sad.
On Windows, Safari is already there, although its close box is strangely on the wrong end of window's title bar.
Lmao nice article, and I love the quoted, strangely it is - coming from a Mac user. xD
is the beta version which can be downloaded right now essentially same as what will be included in Leopard?
Yes and no.
The one in beta is a debug=full release and the WebKit is many regressions behind the current WebKit Trunk.
Seriously: When you open a new tab, WHAT you want to achieve in 98% ?
Lemme guess: type in an url and press enter to visit that page.
And now think for a while, .. if u type in that url,.. maybe it isn't such a bad decision to leave out a stupid button that clutters things, because: you need to move your hands to the keyboard nonetheless if you open a new tab and want to do sth with it!
Crazy little nob thingy, AKA the Nubbin, AKA the, well, it's a little risque so it's best left to the reader's imagination. LOL
Again, the whole keyboard shortcut versus mouse stuff (buttons or click actions) is really about choice. If my hand is on the mouse don't force me to go to the keyboard. Maybe I'm lounging with my feet up on the desk, maybe I'm drinking coffee. Don't force me turn around, put down the mug of caffeinated goodness, just because there's no button.
Sure, hide the button by default or turn off actions by default. I don't mind. Make the interface as clean and simple as possible. Great.
But I like choices as much as I like options, which is just as much as I like customizations.
+++
1. Choices are a good thing.
2. Sometimes you have to compromise. But then try to do it the right way. There are keyboard-centric applications like word processing where people are probably craving for kb shortcuts. Then there are kiosk-like applications where people are likely to just point and klick all the time because that's the only way to follow links anyway, or because they're sitting on the couch with just their wireless mouse. That's when you definitely DON'T want to HAVE TO press keys for anything.
Macs and OSX are great, but in that regard Apple has made a few stupid decisions. Hey, a one-button mouse is sure simpler of course than a two-button mouse, but only as long as you don't have to abuse that single button by long-pressing it or Ctrl/Cmd-clicking with it or (in case of a touchpad) making strange double-finger-touch-he-touchpad-and-press-button-at-the-same-time actions. Or all these Cmd-W and Cmd-Q actions. Main problem is they aren't visible.
It's of course not AI's fault it's just that Safari is one of the less interesting new features of Leopard.