IE RIP, Apples new web browser

burningwheel · October 17, 2002 12:36PM

sniped from macosrumors.com:

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Microsoft may never release a 6.x version of Internet Explorer for the Mac, according to Apple sources. This is because "the browser is the operating system," as Netscape and Microsoft both realized back in the days of the full-on browser wars; Apple plans to introduce its own version of the Mozilla/Chimera browser with tie-ins to .Mac (called, by some, Web.Mac) for this very reason.

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i hope you don't have to be a.mac subscriber to get this browser

mrmister · October 17, 2002 12:42PM

I bet you do!

peve · October 17, 2002 5:22PM

an "i"browser would be a good thing.

take a mac out of the box - put it on your desk - fire it up ...and the only thing that the majoraty of computer users today are missing from apple is a browser.

lets face it, most users:

-do email

-surf the web

the basis is a operating system that provides both of the first two needs.

next to that every person has special needs - and is willing to install software.

ok. we have ms ie - but "hell"! its microsoft!

it's a bunch of crap with a bad interface!

and that is sitting ontop of a modern os with a beautiful gui.

i want a "i"browser!

(i can't believe i just wrote that)

luca · October 18, 2002 9:32AM

Let's hope Chimera gets a LOT better before they start including it. Maybe they'll aqua-fy Mozilla. I know some people dislike Mozilla (for unknown reasons), but it's much more stable than Chimera and it seems more complete. However, I do think they'll remove the Mail and News parts of Mozilla if they use it.

Anyway, it would be cool. Mozilla is super stable and it seems to work with anything I throw at it (It's the only browser I've used for more than a month). I can't say the same about Chimera.

ghost_user_name · October 18, 2002 9:43AM

[quote]Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:

I know some people dislike Mozilla (for unknown reasons)<hr></blockquote>The app is very slow to launch.

The interface is slow.

The interface does not conform to Apple's HIG.

It uses a strange custom element for popup menus (I don't mind the other "standard" elements like buttons since they will handle CSS properly).

The text entry is atrocious (not as bad in more recent builds).

It immediately crawls to a standstill during mousedown events (yucky legacy Carbon code).

The implementation of the sheets looks "hacked on" at best.

Unlike other Mac browsers, it doesn't have a customizable toolbar.

Services are MIA.

Drag-and-drop is wonky.

Mostly, it's the interface and the interface's speed and responsiveness (or the lack thereof). The interface can REALLY break an app and the user's experience if it doesn't properly conform to the OS it is running on.

Personally, I think the idea of an Apple-branded browser is an AWFUL idea. The LAST thing I want to do is add another browser to my list that I have to check code in to be sure it displays properly. I think any web developer would tell you exactly the same. Well, what if it is based on Gecko like Chimera is? Shouldn't it be a breeze and be identical to Mozilla and other Gecko-based browsers? Well, apparently not, since Mozilla and Chimera don't even render identically! Of course, this is probably mostly the fault of Chimera's bad font handling, but there could certainly be other issues at hand.

Also, since no one else has said this, I should add that MacOSRumors doesn't exactly have the best track record for reliability or honesty for that matter. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[ 10-18-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]

amorph · October 18, 2002 10:25AM

I posted something like this on MacNN earlier when a similar thread came up:

I agree that a standalone Apple web browser is a boneheaded idea. However, a set of libraries and frameworks to beef up OS X as a web platform is another matter entirely. The pieces are already falling into place: Sherlock shows that Apple recognizes that the web has transcended the traditional browser; Apple just released a standalone JavaScript engine for OS X; Apple hired the Chimera guy, who has made a number of interesting comments about the Gecko engine; and, of course, Gecko was designed to serve as a cross-platform system resource. It's just that, in its most familiar form, it's the back end for various standalone clients.

I can really see Apple offering libraries for: JavaScript (here already), CSS, DOM, XSL/XSLT, XHTML, etc. and then (maybe) shipping a thin front end that brings them all together into a familiar , simple browser. But the browser would not be the raison d'etre (sorry, no accents, I'm on Windows), the back end would. And the back end would allow Apple and third parties to both use standard, consistent services to integrate their apps with the Web.

This, I like.

dj_adequate · October 18, 2002 12:06PM

Amorph, I hope you are right. That would really be a big bonus for some of the work I do. Right now, one of the few areas that windows still beats OS X for the things I do is the easy availability of web services. I can tuck an IE window into a small desktop agent and hit a server very easily. Doing the same code in OSX would require a lot more work.

I like the idea of web information being able to live outside of traditional browsers. System level services would make that happen.

jccbin · October 18, 2002 8:13PM

This would be a unique way of using distributed computing to perform advanced functions for users. Think of the other areas to which this could be applied - interlinked frameworks across continents...

Ohhhh, Strong Encryption, My Arse...

rick1138 · October 18, 2002 9:38PM

Strong encryption is actually very easy to do.The best browser will be OmniWeb when the new rendering engine is finished.Mozilla sucks-bloated code.

hobbes · October 18, 2002 10:34PM

I don't believe a word MOSR says, especially since R.M. sought his fortunes elsewhere, but I've got to just say that "Web.Mac" is just about the worst name I've heard in a long time.

I do think an Apple-branded, re-vamped Chimera browser is in progress, though. Why? Pride, for one. The browser and the office suite the two places Apple has let Microsoft have their way (by agreement for the first, and because they have no choice for the second). Now that the Gecko engine has come of age (and the official MS-Apple agreement has ended) they can address the first. And over the next few years I believe Apple will attempt to address the second.

[ 10-18-2002: Message edited by: Hobbes ]

hobbes · October 18, 2002 10:54PM

[dp]

[ 10-18-2002: Message edited by: Hobbes ]

robster · October 21, 2002 5:19AM

I'd like to see Apple build an HTML etc.. rendering engine into the OS, so that:

a. Apps could use it without building it in separately.

b. you could type a URL into a finder window and surf straight from the finder

mrmister · October 21, 2002 6:31AM

[quote] you could type a URL into a finder window and surf straight from the finder<hr></blockquote>

Arrrgh! For the love of God, can't I just have each program do what it does well, and work nicely with the other programs? With the Finder not behaving as I'd like it to now, the last thing I want to see is it also become a low-end web browser.

rogue27 · October 21, 2002 9:15AM

I think the system-wide html thing would be neat, since apple's help viewer could use it to then.

torifile · October 21, 2002 9:28AM

[quote]Originally posted by mrmister:



Arrrgh! For the love of God, can't I just have each program do what it does well, and work nicely with the other programs? With the Finder not behaving as I'd like it to now, the last thing I want to see is it also become a low-end web browser.<hr></blockquote>

I agree. Let's stay away from the windows explorer/internet explorer mess over on the windows side. It's just not right. Am I in a browser or in the file manager or does it matter? Hell, yes, it matters. My files are mine, not the internet's. If I want to go to a webpage, I'll use a program for that.

overhope · October 21, 2002 2:14PM

[quote]Originally posted by robster:

I'd like to see Apple build an HTML etc.. rendering engine into the OS<hr></blockquote>

Help Viewer has one, so does Sherlock 3, and I can't help but to wonder why there are so many .xml files lying around my hard drive...

Of course, building the web browsing into the OS sounds familiar... can't quite place where...

ibrowse · October 21, 2002 6:55PM

What always bugged me about Explorer in Windows was that you could browse your files by opening folders and looking at them, or you could open the "Explorer" program and do the exact same thing, only slower. Does anybody know why they did include a mini version of their web browser as a second file management program?

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: iBrowse ]

IE RIP, Apples new web browser

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