Actually the Mac Pro and powermacs have been released at WWDC more often than MWSF in past last few years, but I think november is NOT going to happen. There is no reason to announce a Pro grade computer of that expense for the holiday season. Apple knows that, and will hold off. MWSF is January, and Tax refunds are in February. My guess is still MWSF. It would be a poorly orchestrated release for a computer in that price range during the holidays. Nobody would have the money for it after holiday gifts, and it's too much to be a holiday gift. The loss of sales would reflect poorly in the quarterly report.
We're talking about a professional grade computer, mostly purchased by businesses, not individuals. Many such businesses like to make such purchases before the end of the year. Regardless, I don't agree with your reasoning (which kind of contradicts itself). I think Apple will release a new Mac Pro when the computer is ready, unless it's ready within just a few weeks of a major event like WWDC or Macworld, in which case they might delay introduction for the event. If Apple was concerned about people not having money after the holidays, they would have rescheduled MWSF years ago, perhaps to March or April when some people really get tax refunds.
Actually the Mac Pro and powermacs have been released at WWDC more often than MWSF in past last few years, but I think november is NOT going to happen. There is no reason to announce a Pro grade computer of that expense for the holiday season. Apple knows that, and will hold off. MWSF is January, and Tax refunds are in February. My guess is still MWSF. It would be a poorly orchestrated release for a computer in that price range during the holidays. Nobody would have the money for it after holiday gifts, and it's too much to be a holiday gift. The loss of sales would reflect poorly in the quarterly report.
Yep, that's when I bought my G5. Except for then, all recent pro machines have come mid-year, so who knows what will happen. If Apple isn't selling many Mac Pros, they may not be in any hurry to upgrade them, much like the mini.
Yep, that's when I bought my G5. Except for then, all recent pro machines have come mid-year, so who knows what will happen. If Apple isn't selling many Mac Pros, they may not be in any hurry to upgrade them, much like the mini.
If Apple is not selling many Mac Pros, then conversely that means not many people are buying them. Wouldn't that scenario lead Apple to update the Mac Pros sooner so they would have more people buying them?
If Apple is not selling many Mac Pros, then conversely that means not many people are buying them. Wouldn't that scenario lead Apple to update the Mac Pros sooner so they would have more people buying them?
Yes, that's what I would have thought about the mini, too.
I would think most folks that are professionals and companies rather utilize the tax deduction for 2007 than actually a tax refund to buy their computers.
As an independent contractor I rather utilize the deduction, since it has been years that I have seem a refund.
I would think most folks that are professionals and companies rather utilize the tax deduction for 2007 than actually a tax refund to buy their computers.
As an independent contractor I rather utilize the deduction, since it has been years that I have seem a refund.
Obviously there is more than one way to look at it. but the holiday season isn't when I go computer shopping. And I do use my refund for computers.
But WWDC is the usual venue for it, over the past 3 years, although I don't think they are going to wait that long.
Actually the Mac Pro and powermacs have been released at WWDC more often than MWSF in past last few years, but I think november is NOT going to happen. There is no reason to announce a Pro grade computer of that expense for the holiday season. Apple knows that, and will hold off. MWSF is January, and Tax refunds are in February. My guess is still MWSF. It would be a poorly orchestrated release for a computer in that price range during the holidays. Nobody would have the money for it after holiday gifts, and it's too much to be a holiday gift. The loss of sales would reflect poorly in the quarterly report.
If Apple isn't selling many Mac Pros, they may not be in any hurry to upgrade them, much like the mini.
The mac pro is still profitable and there is a demand for them, especially because some pro applications require a mac pro. Its a key part of their strategy.
While it is true that the 64-bit ABI is improved, the impact of these things isn't really going to kill or otherwise negatively impact 32-bit application programming any time soon. Apple simply took advantage of an opportunity: they were creating the 64-bit ABI for Obj-C 2.0, and thus didn't have any legacy to contend with. I doubt any developers will look at these 3 things and say "oh, let's not bother with a 32-bit version because the 64-bit ABI has these 3 things". Instead they'll build for both 32-bit and 64-bit, and you may find that Cocoa 64-bit apps run at the same performance as Cocoa 32-bit apps... i.e. these new features (and on x64 vs x86, the improved instruction & register sets) will balance out the negative impact of larger pointers.
Yep, that's when I bought my G5. Except for then, all recent pro machines have come mid-year, so who knows what will happen. If Apple isn't selling many Mac Pros, they may not be in any hurry to upgrade them, much like the mini.
those 2 models make up the bottom and top end of their line up
if they are not balanced and pitched correctly then its surely a major problem?
i think the current mac pro is fine, but very overpriced. The mini on the other hand is next to useless for anything other than light home use and again is overpriced.
i'd like to see a price drop instead of upgrades and then maybe i'd buy either model depending on my needs.
When the MacPro came out its quad cores (or rather tandem dual cores) were a good deal compared to similar PCs from Dell and the like. Good value hardware and the option to run both OS X and XP, fantastic
Now you can buy a Del XPS 420 at close to 1/3 of the price of the powermacs if you settle for a slightly slower CPU and a much better GPU and RAM that is half the price of the type Apple has to use for their woodcrests.
To become competetive Apple has to either scrap the quad cores and move to octacore upwards. Or they can split the pro line into two. A prosumer at half the price of the current ones using the cheaper Intel CPUs and nonbufferd DIMMs, and a workstation with starting with dual quadcores
The macpros are what currently gives by far least bang for the bucks.
Now you can buy a Del XPS 420 at close to 1/3 of the price of the powermacs if you settle for a slightly slower CPU and a much better GPU and RAM that is half the price of the type Apple has to use for their woodcrests.
To become competetive Apple has to either scrap the quad cores and move to octacore upwards. Or they can split the pro line into two. A prosumer at half the price of the current ones using the cheaper Intel CPUs and nonbufferd DIMMs, and a workstation with starting with dual quadcores
The macpros are what currently gives by far least bang for the bucks.
Yeah it's terrible, they are going to have to update pretty soon.
Penryn is out tomorrow so maybe new Mac Pros next week or the week after.
It would be great to see a single quad Penryn on the low end and going up to dual quad core.
So I'm guessing that the general AI consensus from this thread is that new Mac Pro's will be announced on tuesday? I just want to make sure you guy's are all in agreement.
So I'm guessing that the general AI consensus from this thread is that new Mac Pro's will be announced on tuesday? I just want to make sure you guy's are all in agreement.
LOL, I am not in agreement. While I wish they would announce them then... Apple loves to poke and prod my hopes. Loves to knock them down and break them into a million pieces. Since I'm hoping for asap... It'll probably be MWSF
Tuesday or Wednesday next week would be nice. So, I am hoping that will be the day. But you never know with Apple. The only thing that makes me confident is coming now is the talk Apple reserve a bunch of chips ahead of time, so that would make me believe they will release it very soon, rather than wait almost 2 months for MWSF.
I actually though that 3000+ $ would make me a decent machine in march 2008, so I would spent another 1000$ on display and will have my upgrade complete. 4000 is too much, I mean while computing power grows the price should go down, this is what the progress is meant to be.
LOL, I am not in agreement. While I wish they would announce them then... Apple loves to poke and prod my hopes. Loves to knock them down and break them into a million pieces. Since I'm hoping for asap... It'll probably be MWSF
Gosh, by your logic Apple should announce that they are discontinuing the Mac Pro altogether.
I fervently hope that there will be a new Mac Pro this coming week. But I have to admit that I have begun preparing myself for disappointment.
Now you can buy a Del XPS 420 at close to 1/3 of the price of the powermacs if you settle for a slightly slower CPU and a much better GPU and RAM that is half the price of the type Apple has to use for their woodcrests.
I just went to the Dell and Apple online stores and built as near to identical baseline 2.66 GHz quad core machines as I could. The MacPro came out almost $500 less than the Dell workstation. I have one of those Dell machines at work, and while its a nice machine it isn't of the same build quality and design calibre as the MacPro. And the Dell's video card had half the VRAM of the Mac's, even though it was arguably a bit higher performance -- but I wasn't pushing the GPU on purpose because, argue all you want, even the "lowly" 7300GT is just fine for many (if not most) users. Dell still sells lots of these workstations, by the way, so there must be good reasons to choose them over the XPS 420 and its ilk (I know what the reasons are, so don't bother telling me).
So what's really the issue here? It is that Apple simply does not have a plain-vanilla Mac that targets the market that PCs have dominated for the past 20+ years. Apple has the iMac because it can do that style of machine better than pretty much anyone else (note the use of the word "style"). Apple has the iMac mini because it too has a market segment that isn't flooded with competitors. And Apple has the MacPro for the high-end workstation market because they like the margins and having the mindshare of the pros who use their high-end software to do work that is substantial enough to justify spending a few grand more on a machine. Sorry if you're not part of those target markets.
Should Apple step back into the low-end of the generic PC market? They've been there before, so they know what its like. They aren't there now most likely because the margins suck and the competition is stiff. Apple isn't setup to compete in the "we're all the same, selling for cutthroat prices" market, and personally I don't want them to be. They are much more interesting the way they are. When they tried to be in that part of the market they were lost and wandering aimlessly, and nearly folded up shop.
On the other hand, there is something to be said for a single-chip built-to-order machine with lots of options. I think the MacPro design is great, but it is more robust than I need at home. I also don't need the high-end Xeon processors and FB RAM. I would like a choice of video cards, and the option to put in a couple of desktop-class hard drives and maybe 2 optical drives. Intel has a vast selection of chips and chipsets that fill this market (hence the XPS 420 and all its multitude of competitors) so it is easier than ever before for Apple to build such a machine. If they did that though, it would erode the fringes of the iMac, iMac mini, and MacPro markets where their margins are better. And the cost of doing business in the market we're talking about is not inconsiderable... they'd be expected to keep pace with the absolute latest processors, memory, drives, gpus, etc. I'm tempted to think that they should offer such a machine only via their online BTO store, and outsource construction of it to another company (Intel directly? [actually after I wrote this I realized that pretty much everybody already outsources things to Taiwan and China so this would mostly just amount to an expanded arrangement with an existing supplier]). Keep the Apple label on it, but keep it out of the Apple Stores (and other retail) and stay with the Dell business model for that particular class of machine. It would make a particular market segment happier, and would minimize the disruption to their other lines.
Comments
Actually the Mac Pro and powermacs have been released at WWDC more often than MWSF in past last few years, but I think november is NOT going to happen. There is no reason to announce a Pro grade computer of that expense for the holiday season. Apple knows that, and will hold off. MWSF is January, and Tax refunds are in February. My guess is still MWSF. It would be a poorly orchestrated release for a computer in that price range during the holidays. Nobody would have the money for it after holiday gifts, and it's too much to be a holiday gift. The loss of sales would reflect poorly in the quarterly report.
We're talking about a professional grade computer, mostly purchased by businesses, not individuals. Many such businesses like to make such purchases before the end of the year. Regardless, I don't agree with your reasoning (which kind of contradicts itself). I think Apple will release a new Mac Pro when the computer is ready, unless it's ready within just a few weeks of a major event like WWDC or Macworld, in which case they might delay introduction for the event. If Apple was concerned about people not having money after the holidays, they would have rescheduled MWSF years ago, perhaps to March or April when some people really get tax refunds.
Actually the Mac Pro and powermacs have been released at WWDC more often than MWSF in past last few years, but I think november is NOT going to happen. There is no reason to announce a Pro grade computer of that expense for the holiday season. Apple knows that, and will hold off. MWSF is January, and Tax refunds are in February. My guess is still MWSF. It would be a poorly orchestrated release for a computer in that price range during the holidays. Nobody would have the money for it after holiday gifts, and it's too much to be a holiday gift. The loss of sales would reflect poorly in the quarterly report.
PowerMac G5 Quad was announced late October 2005.
PowerMac G5 Quad was announced late October 2005.
Yep, that's when I bought my G5. Except for then, all recent pro machines have come mid-year, so who knows what will happen. If Apple isn't selling many Mac Pros, they may not be in any hurry to upgrade them, much like the mini.
Yep, that's when I bought my G5. Except for then, all recent pro machines have come mid-year, so who knows what will happen. If Apple isn't selling many Mac Pros, they may not be in any hurry to upgrade them, much like the mini.
If Apple is not selling many Mac Pros, then conversely that means not many people are buying them. Wouldn't that scenario lead Apple to update the Mac Pros sooner so they would have more people buying them?
If Apple is not selling many Mac Pros, then conversely that means not many people are buying them. Wouldn't that scenario lead Apple to update the Mac Pros sooner so they would have more people buying them?
Yes, that's what I would have thought about the mini, too.
Tax refunds are in February.
I would think most folks that are professionals and companies rather utilize the tax deduction for 2007 than actually a tax refund to buy their computers.
As an independent contractor I rather utilize the deduction, since it has been years that I have seem a refund.
I would think most folks that are professionals and companies rather utilize the tax deduction for 2007 than actually a tax refund to buy their computers.
As an independent contractor I rather utilize the deduction, since it has been years that I have seem a refund.
Obviously there is more than one way to look at it. but the holiday season isn't when I go computer shopping. And I do use my refund for computers.
But WWDC is the usual venue for it, over the past 3 years, although I don't think they are going to wait that long.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/aug/07macpro.html
Actually the Mac Pro and powermacs have been released at WWDC more often than MWSF in past last few years, but I think november is NOT going to happen. There is no reason to announce a Pro grade computer of that expense for the holiday season. Apple knows that, and will hold off. MWSF is January, and Tax refunds are in February. My guess is still MWSF. It would be a poorly orchestrated release for a computer in that price range during the holidays. Nobody would have the money for it after holiday gifts, and it's too much to be a holiday gift. The loss of sales would reflect poorly in the quarterly report.
Yes there is.
I want one.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Obviously there is more than one way to look at it. but the holiday season isn't when I go computer shopping. And I do use my refund for computers.
But WWDC is the usual venue for it, over the past 3 years, although I don't think they are going to wait that long.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/aug/07macpro.html
Agreed.
I can't wait for the new MacPro and displays, hopefully sooner than later.
If Apple isn't selling many Mac Pros, they may not be in any hurry to upgrade them, much like the mini.
The mac pro is still profitable and there is a demand for them, especially because some pro applications require a mac pro. Its a key part of their strategy.
These are in the new ABI for 64bit...
Non-fragile instance variables
Zero-cost exceptions (mainly for objective-c++)
and faster messaging dispatch...
While it is true that the 64-bit ABI is improved, the impact of these things isn't really going to kill or otherwise negatively impact 32-bit application programming any time soon. Apple simply took advantage of an opportunity: they were creating the 64-bit ABI for Obj-C 2.0, and thus didn't have any legacy to contend with. I doubt any developers will look at these 3 things and say "oh, let's not bother with a 32-bit version because the 64-bit ABI has these 3 things". Instead they'll build for both 32-bit and 64-bit, and you may find that Cocoa 64-bit apps run at the same performance as Cocoa 32-bit apps... i.e. these new features (and on x64 vs x86, the improved instruction & register sets) will balance out the negative impact of larger pointers.
Yep, that's when I bought my G5. Except for then, all recent pro machines have come mid-year, so who knows what will happen. If Apple isn't selling many Mac Pros, they may not be in any hurry to upgrade them, much like the mini.
those 2 models make up the bottom and top end of their line up
if they are not balanced and pitched correctly then its surely a major problem?
i think the current mac pro is fine, but very overpriced. The mini on the other hand is next to useless for anything other than light home use and again is overpriced.
i'd like to see a price drop instead of upgrades and then maybe i'd buy either model depending on my needs.
Now you can buy a Del XPS 420 at close to 1/3 of the price of the powermacs if you settle for a slightly slower CPU and a much better GPU and RAM that is half the price of the type Apple has to use for their woodcrests.
To become competetive Apple has to either scrap the quad cores and move to octacore upwards. Or they can split the pro line into two. A prosumer at half the price of the current ones using the cheaper Intel CPUs and nonbufferd DIMMs, and a workstation with starting with dual quadcores
The macpros are what currently gives by far least bang for the bucks.
Now you can buy a Del XPS 420 at close to 1/3 of the price of the powermacs if you settle for a slightly slower CPU and a much better GPU and RAM that is half the price of the type Apple has to use for their woodcrests.
To become competetive Apple has to either scrap the quad cores and move to octacore upwards. Or they can split the pro line into two. A prosumer at half the price of the current ones using the cheaper Intel CPUs and nonbufferd DIMMs, and a workstation with starting with dual quadcores
The macpros are what currently gives by far least bang for the bucks.
Yeah it's terrible, they are going to have to update pretty soon.
Penryn is out tomorrow so maybe new Mac Pros next week or the week after.
It would be great to see a single quad Penryn on the low end and going up to dual quad core.
So I'm guessing that the general AI consensus from this thread is that new Mac Pro's will be announced on tuesday? I just want to make sure you guy's are all in agreement.
LOL, I am not in agreement. While I wish they would announce them then... Apple loves to poke and prod my hopes. Loves to knock them down and break them into a million pieces. Since I'm hoping for asap... It'll probably be MWSF
LOL, I am not in agreement. While I wish they would announce them then... Apple loves to poke and prod my hopes. Loves to knock them down and break them into a million pieces. Since I'm hoping for asap... It'll probably be MWSF
Gosh, by your logic Apple should announce that they are discontinuing the Mac Pro altogether.
I fervently hope that there will be a new Mac Pro this coming week. But I have to admit that I have begun preparing myself for disappointment.
Now you can buy a Del XPS 420 at close to 1/3 of the price of the powermacs if you settle for a slightly slower CPU and a much better GPU and RAM that is half the price of the type Apple has to use for their woodcrests.
I just went to the Dell and Apple online stores and built as near to identical baseline 2.66 GHz quad core machines as I could. The MacPro came out almost $500 less than the Dell workstation. I have one of those Dell machines at work, and while its a nice machine it isn't of the same build quality and design calibre as the MacPro. And the Dell's video card had half the VRAM of the Mac's, even though it was arguably a bit higher performance -- but I wasn't pushing the GPU on purpose because, argue all you want, even the "lowly" 7300GT is just fine for many (if not most) users. Dell still sells lots of these workstations, by the way, so there must be good reasons to choose them over the XPS 420 and its ilk (I know what the reasons are, so don't bother telling me).
So what's really the issue here? It is that Apple simply does not have a plain-vanilla Mac that targets the market that PCs have dominated for the past 20+ years. Apple has the iMac because it can do that style of machine better than pretty much anyone else (note the use of the word "style"). Apple has the iMac mini because it too has a market segment that isn't flooded with competitors. And Apple has the MacPro for the high-end workstation market because they like the margins and having the mindshare of the pros who use their high-end software to do work that is substantial enough to justify spending a few grand more on a machine. Sorry if you're not part of those target markets.
Should Apple step back into the low-end of the generic PC market? They've been there before, so they know what its like. They aren't there now most likely because the margins suck and the competition is stiff. Apple isn't setup to compete in the "we're all the same, selling for cutthroat prices" market, and personally I don't want them to be. They are much more interesting the way they are. When they tried to be in that part of the market they were lost and wandering aimlessly, and nearly folded up shop.
On the other hand, there is something to be said for a single-chip built-to-order machine with lots of options. I think the MacPro design is great, but it is more robust than I need at home. I also don't need the high-end Xeon processors and FB RAM. I would like a choice of video cards, and the option to put in a couple of desktop-class hard drives and maybe 2 optical drives. Intel has a vast selection of chips and chipsets that fill this market (hence the XPS 420 and all its multitude of competitors) so it is easier than ever before for Apple to build such a machine. If they did that though, it would erode the fringes of the iMac, iMac mini, and MacPro markets where their margins are better. And the cost of doing business in the market we're talking about is not inconsiderable... they'd be expected to keep pace with the absolute latest processors, memory, drives, gpus, etc. I'm tempted to think that they should offer such a machine only via their online BTO store, and outsource construction of it to another company (Intel directly? [actually after I wrote this I realized that pretty much everybody already outsources things to Taiwan and China so this would mostly just amount to an expanded arrangement with an existing supplier]). Keep the Apple label on it, but keep it out of the Apple Stores (and other retail) and stay with the Dell business model for that particular class of machine. It would make a particular market segment happier, and would minimize the disruption to their other lines.