Apple to fire up Penryn-based Mac Pros

1568101120

Comments

  • Reply 141 of 398
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,419member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by takemura View Post


    I actually though that 3000+ $ would make me a decent machine in march 2008, so I would spent another 1000$ on display and will have my upgrade complete. 4000 is too much, I mean while computing power grows the price should go down, this is what the progress is meant to be.



    No. You are fundamentally wrong here. Technology is always stratified. $4000 today buys you "x" amount of speed/storage/feature that same $4000 system will be available in a couple of years but it'll simply have "more speed" "more storage" "more features". As technology progresses you get more at a "given" price point but generally those pricepoints still exist. You are correct though from the PoV of "computing power grows the price should go down" it "does" go down. The Macbook of today at $1099 is faster than the first Macbook Pro that was $2500.
  • Reply 142 of 398
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Programmer View Post


    ...................Should Apple step back into the low-end of the generic PC market? They've been there before, so they know what its like. They aren't there now most likely because the margins suck and the competition is stiff. Apple isn't setup to compete in the "we're all the same, selling for cutthroat prices" market, and personally I don't want them to be. They are much more interesting the way they are. When they tried to be in that part of the market they were lost and wandering aimlessly, and nearly folded up shop.

    ..................................



    That's such bullshit. #1 Apple was almost dead before the return of Steve Jobs. The PC was killing them because the Mac had nothing to offer, and no hope for the future. Things are quite different now. You talking times before the Think Different Campaign. That changed everything. Steve Jobs has changed everything. People will actually buy Macs now, and not wonder if there will be new software versions available for them next year. Your brain is wandering aimlessly programmer if you think no one was going to catch that line of crap.
  • Reply 143 of 398
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,419member
    I don't think what he's saying is crap at all.



    Before Steve Jobs Apple's answer to low cost computers were Performas which did anything "but" perform. Apple also tried clones and that was a horrible idea as well.



    Truth is Apple's best talent had left the company and the ideas coming from the remaining talent were plebeian at best. What the NeXT acquisition did was infuse the platform not only with a solid and proven OS core but more importantly a sense of direction and leadership.



    A Mac mini is as low as you're going to get from Apple. They have no desire to deliver sub $500 general computers.
  • Reply 144 of 398
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,455member
    I don't think we're talking about sub $500 computers here. I think we're talking about desktops that perform at the POST $500 area. While I like the mac mini and believe it has it's place... I think there is also a place for a 1k-1.5k machine. This is what I was used to buying before Apple moved to G5. This is what PC users are used to buying.



    Anyways, It would be wise for apple to release these mac pro's sooner than later. Especially if they are hoarding the chips... I'm sure intel wants them to be available asap, and wouldn't give most of the supply to apple if they weren't going to use them for another 2 months. So I do feel there is a slight possibility we will see something sooner than later.
  • Reply 145 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker View Post


    Your brain is wandering aimlessly programmer if you think no one was going to catch that line of crap.



    Meh, you might think its bull but I still hear it all the time. "Why should I get a Mac when Windows is just as good, cheaper, and has all the software (particularly games)". The people that will line up to buy the $500-$1500 low margin desktops are the same ones who spew that line.
  • Reply 146 of 398
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,455member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Programmer View Post


    Meh, you might think its bull but I still hear it all the time. "Why should I get a Mac when Windows is just as good, cheaper, and has all the software (particularly games)". The people that will line up to buy the $500-$1500 low margin desktops are the same ones who spew that line.



    And you're 100% right, I'm sure onlooker will agree with it. It's time Apple delivers to this crowd. They would grow very quickly. And NOOOO the iMac does NOT fit this crowd.
  • Reply 147 of 398
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647 View Post


    And you're 100% right, I'm sure onlooker will agree with it. It's time Apple delivers to this crowd. They would grow very quickly. And NOOOO the iMac does NOT fit this crowd.



    That was my point. I thought it was obvious.
  • Reply 148 of 398
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647 View Post


    And you're 100% right, I'm sure onlooker will agree with it. It's time Apple delivers to this crowd. They would grow very quickly. And NOOOO the iMac does NOT fit this crowd.



    I know, why don't people get this? Over and over again people say no this isn't Apple's market and they can't compete with Dell etc. If that was the case then Apple should just give up altogether as their models all have competing models in the PC world - you can buy a quad core PC at 1/3rd of the price of Apple's cheapest quad.



    The problem is that Apple don't make the model that is the most popular model in the PC world and that's one of a few reasons why their market share is low.



    Yes a Mac Mini is ok but the graphics suck. Is that ok for most people? No because all the families I know who own cheap PCs need the machine capable of playing games for their kids. What about the iMac, that's ok but the families I know wouldn't buy an iMac simply because they wouldn't buy a product like that and let kids use it.



    What they would buy is a small headless machine at £800-900 with a cheap screen that can be replaced for £50. I know this because that's what they own (though some have £500 machines) and they explain to me why they bought the computer.



    The Mac Pro is overpriced compared to what the market is offering consumers. The iMac is the right price but is the wrong design for a lot of people. I keep wanting to get an upgrade to my Mini at home so I can do what I do at work and I just cannot bring myself to like the iMac at all - I'm basically paying double the price of my Mini for the benefit of a decent but not great graphics card. Hopefully Apple will see sense and build a single quad Penryn Mac Pro with 2GB Ram for close to £1000. Obviously I'd prefer a smaller form factor but if they refuse to build it, I have no choice but to get a workstation for home use, which is a little strange.



    I might get another laptop actually, I had a couple of power cuts recently and it's pretty annoying. A second generation MBP refurb for £899 would be fine and it has faster graphics than the current iMac. Some people might question why I'd get a laptop and not an iMac and the answer simply is that I'd be paying for an actual laptop with the benefits of a laptop like being able to run it off the battery and I would expect laptop performance and no glossy screen. If I buy a desktop, I don't expect laptop performance.
  • Reply 149 of 398
    Sorry, Programmer,



    but we need a Mid-Tower.



    Your arguments do have some resonance. But Many non-Major vendors are offering much better graphics cards than the Mac Pro for much cheaper prices.



    A quad 2.4 gig is 150 quid, a GT 8800 is 150 quid. Don't tell me Apple can't build the mid-tower.



    Apple will never compete in 'blah, blah, blah.'



    Intel, Mac Mini, X-Serves and Dual Booting later...



    Those 'don't need more than 15 inch iMac' arguments don't work anymore.



    Along with the Macs should or can't do games.



    2.3 million in sales there is space for the Mid-Tower.



    1500 plus for a Tower with a crap gpu is poor.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 150 of 398
    Quote:

    I know, why don't people get this? Over and over again people say no this isn't Apple's market and they can't compete with De



    If that was the case, how come their Mac Pros are cheaper?



    A load of crock. Ok, so they won't ship junk. But starting a tower line at 1600 instead of 995 is poor.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 151 of 398
    In the days of PPC one could understand.



    But with the dirt cheap Conroe line? No excuse.



    And another thing. Why is Apple skimming off the 'Ram' off the 512 meg Radeon Pro in the iMac? It's a 60 quid gpu. And they're skimming off ram?



    WHY?!?!? Why do they do that? Blank look? Ram has never been cheaper...or GPUs for that matter...



    Yeesh. At least give me the option to buy the 8800GT for another 90 pounds. I'd take that. Even under clocked.



    Yeesh.



    Lemon BOn Bon.
  • Reply 152 of 398
    Quote:

    The Mac Pro is overpriced compared to what the market is offering consumers. The iMac is the right price but is the wrong design for a lot of people. I keep wanting to get an upgrade to my Mini at home so I can do what I do at work and I just cannot bring myself to like the iMac at all - I'm basically paying double the price of my Mini for the benefit of a decent but not great graphics card. Hopefully Apple will see sense and build a single quad Penryn Mac Pro with 2GB Ram for close to £1000. Obviously I'd prefer a smaller form factor but if they refuse to build it, I have no choice but to get a workstation for home use, which is a little strange.



    You're so right.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 153 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    Sorry, Programmer,



    but we need a Mid-Tower.



    LOL, I think you've got me all wrong. I'm telling you why Apple doesn't have a machine in this space, not whether I think they should. Like I said above, if they do dive into this portion of the market there is a lot of competition and therefore a lot of expectation and the lowest margins to be found. If the margins are four times lower then you've got to sell four times as many machines to make the same money.



    Surely it is clear why they don't compete there (yet)? With margins like that they can't differentiate, and then they can't maintain the notion that their products are better. And if they deliver a machine that appears to be considerably better bang for the buck, then they will sell less of the high margin machines because a large fraction of customers will shop based on the feature list and the price. That will erode the status of the brand and weaken their overall position.



    I'm quite sure Apple is trying to figure out how to sell a machine to this market, but (despite what you all seem to think) its not a simple matter. They are pursuing the blue ocean market model, just like Nintendo is with the Wii. And guess what? They are being successful.
  • Reply 154 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    If that was the case, how come their Mac Pros are cheaper?

    A load of crock. Ok, so they won't ship junk. But starting a tower line at 1600 instead of 995 is poor.





    LOL, you're just not going to get it, are you LBB? There's more to this market than you seem to understand.
  • Reply 155 of 398
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Is there no thread in FH that is safe from the discussion of a mid-level Mac tower?



    Take it elsewhere, this is a Mac Pro thread.

    Seriously, the mods should start banning people at the first mention of a Mid-Tower.
  • Reply 156 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    Is there no thread in FH that is safe from the discussion of a mid-level Mac tower?



    Take it elsewhere, this is a Mac Pro thread.

    Seriously, the mods should start banning people at the first mention of a Mid-Tower.



    Nope, nowhere's safe, and it is getting pretty distracting when the same people are fighting the same battle over and over. This is not a comment on the battle, it's a comment on where the battle is being fought: everywhere they can get a word in. I'm not sure banning is correct (I learn a lot from many of the main combatants, who are quite knowledgeable in many other areas), but a little bit of courtesy, or just keep it to the "headless Mac/xMac threads would be appreciated.
  • Reply 157 of 398
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post


    Nope, nowhere's safe, and it is getting pretty distracting when the same people are fighting the same battle over and over. This is not a comment on the battle, it's a comment on where the battle is being fought: everywhere they can get a word in. I'm not sure banning is correct (I learn a lot from many of the main combatants, who are quite knowledgeable in many other areas), but a little bit of courtesy, or just keep it to the "headless Mac/xMac threads would be appreciated.



    I wouldn't call it a battle. It's an obvious need for many people or it wouldn't come up so much.
  • Reply 158 of 398
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Programmer View Post


    if they do dive into this portion of the market there is a lot of competition and therefore a lot of expectation and the lowest margins to be found. If the margins are four times lower then you've got to sell four times as many machines to make the same money.



    The margins aren't any lower than the iMac. If they are a similar price with cheaper parts and no screen, there's no problem.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777


    Is there no thread in FH that is safe from the discussion of a mid-level Mac tower?



    Take it elsewhere, this is a Mac Pro thread.

    Seriously, the mods should start banning people at the first mention of a Mid-Tower.



    Actually it is quite relevant here as the Mac Pro update should be Penryn-based, which may finally encourage Apple to build the product a lot of us want. This is all speculation on what the Mac Pro update will include. Similar to how a tablet/ultra-portable discussion would arise in a Macbook update thread. They are the same class of machine.



    The xMac thread had a Penryn-based Mac Pro price list so I think it's appropriate. The specifics of the discussion maybe not but it wasn't xMac proponents who started on the specifics.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mzaslove


    a little bit of courtesy, or just keep it to the "headless Mac/xMac threads would be appreciated.



    The big problem really is that so many subjects link back to it. It's not hard to see why when it's the most popular computer model ever made in the world. Not mentioning it would be like telling people to not mention ipods in the Zune forum. If almost everybody else has one then it's hard to avoid bringing it up in conversation and talk about the advantages and disadvantages of each.



    I'm sure the subject will die down as one of three things happen. Either people just end up migrating to PCs or in 2008, the components in Apple's consumer or laptop lineup are fast enough that form factor becomes largely irrelevant or Apple actually builds a proper consumer desktop. It might not be until February when we see quad core mobile components that the subject may become irrelevant.



    I can understand the frustration with covering the same material though so it's probably best to start speculation on the possible upcoming Mac Pro spec. GPUs are clearly a big problem the current Mac Pro is having so what GPUs would likely make it to the Mac Pro? Also, will they go all octo-core or keep a single quad, what design problems might that bring up. Also, case redesign. I can't say I like the cheese grater design but it certainly keeps the machines quiet.



    However, this design came from the G5 design and the iMac had an overhaul so maybe we will see a similar technical design but better aesthetically. What other limitations does the current Mac Pro have that could be addressed? Maybe more ports front and back, better audio output. An eject button would be nice - why don't they just make it so that you tap the front of the tray to get it to pop out if they want to hide the buttons?



    Maybe they could try and make it lighter too.
  • Reply 159 of 398
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post




    However, this design came from the G5 design and the iMac had an overhaul so maybe we will see a similar technical design but better aesthetically. What other limitations does the current Mac Pro have that could be addressed? Maybe more ports front and back, better audio output. An eject button would be nice - why don't they just make it so that you tap the front of the tray to get it to pop out if they want to hide the buttons?



    Maybe they could try and make it lighter too.



    I absolutely think the case will get a redesign, and that is why I think it's a MWSF update for sure.
Sign In or Register to comment.