Meh, you might think its bull but I still hear it all the time. "Why should I get a Mac when Windows is just as good, cheaper, and has all the software (particularly games)". The people that will line up to buy the $500-$1500 low margin desktops are the same ones who spew that line.
You may be right, but. Apple currently does in fact compete in the $599 range, only $99 above your lower limit of $500. It just happens that at this time the Mac mini isn't a very good value even for its' target market, those that place a very high premium on size.
You price range also includes the range from $800 ot $1500 in the low margin category. While these may not, and I stress "may not" have the stratoshperic gross margins of 35% they most certainly are not low margin computers for any manufacturer by any stretch of the imagination.
What effect on Apple's sales of iMacs, Mac minis and Mac Pros, if they did indeed sell such a computer, is conjecture and at this point quite moot since Steve Jobs effectively killed any hope of a such a machine with his statements concerning AIO. And now especially since Apple's desktop sales actually surged, Apple will not even consider and appears to hold only contempt and disdain for such a machine.
Pardon my ignorance, but this brought up a question for something I know nothing about. Would it be possible for said developer with the 24" iMac have the program compliled on an xServe or a Mac Pro over a local network in order to speed up the process?
Definitely! They have compile farms (groups of computers) that do nothing but compile. I haven't done it with XCode, but I have done it with Visual Studio in MFC. You can network 2 computers together, work on one compile and debug on another. Or just use another for pure compiling. Or both of them for compiling. I'm pretty sure XCode has that capability, but again I haven't done it before on XCode. It's a pretty cool feature.
What effect on Apple's sales of iMacs, Mac minis and Mac Pros, if they did indeed sell such a computer, is conjecture and at this point quite moot since Steve Jobs effectively killed any hope of a such a machine with his statements concerning AIO. And now especially since Apple's desktop sales actually surged, Apple will not even consider and appears to hold only contempt and disdain for such a machine.
I think this is where people are starting to disagree. I don't see the desktop surge as an excuse NOT to bring out such a machine. I see it as REASON to bring out such a machine. Apple's desktop sales are lagging. While the rest of the industries is doing fine. Why is that? In my POV and others, it's because they don't have a normal solution that people want. They force you into a small computer with horrible harddrive space and horrible graphics. Into an AIO with a glossy screen and again, horrible graphics. And an LCD you may not want (you already have one, have a better one, hard to match with an external lcd for calibration), and a VERY expensive solution that is the Mac Pro. The normal consumer isn't going to go for the Mac Pro.
These days consumers are buying laptops (for portability), AND towers (expandability, on the cheap side, faster than laptops, etc). Apple may be going about this wrong. They may be blaming their poor desktop sales on the fact that the consumer has poor choices for BUYING a desktop from apple.
Perhaps cannibalization of the rest of the lineup is exactly what apple needs. If that is what the consumer wants, I see no reason not to give it to them. Especially if it will bring EVERY MORE users over to the platform because that is what they have been waiting for. Why not give the consumer. While I think SOME cannibalization will occur, I don't think it would be as drastic as one would think. The lines are very clearly different. There is a large group waiting for some sort of desktop mac from Apple, they have been waiting since the switch to intel. It's time Apple delivered.
In searching MacCentral and AI, I've found some updates have been announced prior to 9:00am EST and others just after 1:00pm EST. So I guess it fluctuates.
Still, the Apple Store isn't down, Mac Pros shipping in 1-2 days and no EOL rumours from Big Box vendors, I can't see Apple updating the Pro line in the next few days.
As much as I hate to, I agree with you. If they make it till black friday without announcing them, I don't see apple announcing until MWSF. Reason being is how much it will mess with the quarterly numbers with the machine only being out part of the quarter. Not a foolproof reason, but I feel a good one. Apple loves to manipulate quarterly numbers this way.
In searching MacCentral and AI, I've found some updates have been announced prior to 9:00am EST and others just after 1:00pm EST. So I guess it fluctuates.
Still, the Apple Store isn't down, Mac Pros shipping in 1-2 days and no EOL rumours from Big Box vendors, I can't see Apple updating the Pro line in the next few days.
We can still hope, though.
Hope springs eternal, but my patience doesn't. But what choice do I have? Pay full price for a EOL box? Not going to happen. I'm thinking eBay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647
As much as I hate to, I agree with you. If they make it till black friday without announcing them, I don't see apple announcing until MWSF. Reason being is how much it will mess with the quarterly numbers with the machine only being out part of the quarter. Not a foolproof reason, but I feel a good one. Apple loves to manipulate quarterly numbers this way.
I would say that if we get past tomorrow with no updates, you can forget about it. Nothing until '08.
Well, the time has come and gone and no update. Tomorrow is the last chance before January in my opinion, so keep your fingers, toes, legs and eyes crossed.
I made up my mind, will go for new Mac pro if compatible with new ATI FireGL video cards (best in their class at the present moment with the 40% lower cost in comparison with Nvidia)
Definitely! They have compile farms (groups of computers) that do nothing but compile. I haven't done it with XCode, but I have done it with Visual Studio in MFC. You can network 2 computers together, work on one compile and debug on another. Or just use another for pure compiling. Or both of them for compiling. I'm pretty sure XCode has that capability, but again I haven't done it before on XCode. It's a pretty cool feature.
Thank you, I learn something everyday.
Quote:
...
Apple's desktop sales are lagging. While the rest of the industries is doing fine.
....
Slight nitpick. The last quarterly results showed that Apple desktop sales had indeed exceeded the industry in market share gains, significantly. I don't remember the exact numbers but is was dramatic. Only reenforcing Apple's current stratetgy of AIO and Mac mini.
Still, the Apple Store isn't down, Mac Pros shipping in 1-2 days and no EOL rumours from Big Box vendors, I can't see Apple updating the Pro line in the next few days.
We can still hope, though.
I've been telling these clowns MWSF for 5 months but nobody listens.
At least you deduced your opinion from reasonable places, and sources of information. I won't give mine, but it's just as obvious.
Slight nitpick. The last quarterly results showed that Apple desktop sales had indeed exceeded the industry in market share gains, significantly. I don't remember the exact numbers but is was dramatic. Only reenforcing Apple's current stratetgy of AIO and Mac mini.
Last quarter also saw the redesign of those machines, which had to have some impact on last quarter's numbers. Before then, they had much lower growth on desktops than notebooks.
Last quarter also saw the redesign of those machines, which had to have some impact on last quarter's numbers. Before then, they had much lower growth on desktops than notebooks.
Unfortunately for those of us with dead or aging machines the wait is excruciating. (Mine is dead and I am on a loaner.) The aging form factor, video cards and pricing has a lot of people waiting and I will guess chip supply is a potential issue as the demand is probably pretty high for the next best thing.
For the real high end MacPro a new video card is probably the biggest issue. Increases in front side bus and increases in speed from 3 to 3.2 will be nice but price performance may not change that much. This machine is the X5482 with a 5400 chipset. Minor power improvements over the current MacPro.
At the next level or midrange there is a problem. Do you go for a X5472 with a 5400 chipset and FB-Dimms (Speed) or the E5472 chip (expensive) with a 5100 chipset that supports DDR memory (lower bus speed and cheaper) and save significantly on the power requirements (Green)?
The Intel watts/performance specs seems to use the 5100 chipset at 1333 Mhz with DDR to tout the advantages of Penryn.
I know what I want and I am sure that Apple will make my decision as difficult as possible. I may even end up waiting for that *%&# elusive xMac.
I personally think that video is the most important part, I use old ATI FireGL V 5100, and want to upgrade to the best card on the market at the present - ATI V7600, I know there are better cards but what you get for 1000+ usd is amazing, and I want this card on the Mac pro, no I actually want any card on Mac pro...
Last quarter also saw the redesign of those machines, which had to have some impact on last quarter's numbers. Before then, they had much lower growth on desktops than notebooks.
Point taken. I'll wait until this quarters desktop sales to see if there is really any trend.
Edit: On further thought, it may not matter. It is how Apple perceives this extraordinary growth in desktop sales. I believe it will still reinforce Apple's current AIO stratetgy and they will stay the course.
Comments
Meh, you might think its bull but I still hear it all the time. "Why should I get a Mac when Windows is just as good, cheaper, and has all the software (particularly games)". The people that will line up to buy the $500-$1500 low margin desktops are the same ones who spew that line.
You may be right, but. Apple currently does in fact compete in the $599 range, only $99 above your lower limit of $500. It just happens that at this time the Mac mini isn't a very good value even for its' target market, those that place a very high premium on size.
You price range also includes the range from $800 ot $1500 in the low margin category. While these may not, and I stress "may not" have the stratoshperic gross margins of 35% they most certainly are not low margin computers for any manufacturer by any stretch of the imagination.
What effect on Apple's sales of iMacs, Mac minis and Mac Pros, if they did indeed sell such a computer, is conjecture and at this point quite moot since Steve Jobs effectively killed any hope of a such a machine with his statements concerning AIO. And now especially since Apple's desktop sales actually surged, Apple will not even consider and appears to hold only contempt and disdain for such a machine.
Would make for a very nice bottom line card. Or then at least as a cheapish BTO option.
Even better would be dual SLI 8800 GT BTO option.
They can make it, if they want to.
Looks like SanFran really will be the place, and the ultralight (and ultraexpensive) will be the One More Thing.
Well, I guess today's not the day.
Looks like SanFran really will be the place, and the ultralight (and ultraexpensive) will be the One More Thing.
Hmmm, it is currently 7:30 a.m. in Cupertino. I would think that any updates would happen after they opened for business, no?
What's the history? Anyone know?
I would wait until at least tomorrow because of Veterans' Day, but I must admit I grow increasingly despondent of seeing a new Mac Pro this year.
Off topic, but I have a question.
Pardon my ignorance, but this brought up a question for something I know nothing about. Would it be possible for said developer with the 24" iMac have the program compliled on an xServe or a Mac Pro over a local network in order to speed up the process?
Definitely! They have compile farms (groups of computers) that do nothing but compile. I haven't done it with XCode, but I have done it with Visual Studio in MFC. You can network 2 computers together, work on one compile and debug on another. Or just use another for pure compiling. Or both of them for compiling. I'm pretty sure XCode has that capability, but again I haven't done it before on XCode. It's a pretty cool feature.
What effect on Apple's sales of iMacs, Mac minis and Mac Pros, if they did indeed sell such a computer, is conjecture and at this point quite moot since Steve Jobs effectively killed any hope of a such a machine with his statements concerning AIO. And now especially since Apple's desktop sales actually surged, Apple will not even consider and appears to hold only contempt and disdain for such a machine.
I think this is where people are starting to disagree. I don't see the desktop surge as an excuse NOT to bring out such a machine. I see it as REASON to bring out such a machine. Apple's desktop sales are lagging. While the rest of the industries is doing fine. Why is that? In my POV and others, it's because they don't have a normal solution that people want. They force you into a small computer with horrible harddrive space and horrible graphics. Into an AIO with a glossy screen and again, horrible graphics. And an LCD you may not want (you already have one, have a better one, hard to match with an external lcd for calibration), and a VERY expensive solution that is the Mac Pro. The normal consumer isn't going to go for the Mac Pro.
These days consumers are buying laptops (for portability), AND towers (expandability, on the cheap side, faster than laptops, etc). Apple may be going about this wrong. They may be blaming their poor desktop sales on the fact that the consumer has poor choices for BUYING a desktop from apple.
Perhaps cannibalization of the rest of the lineup is exactly what apple needs. If that is what the consumer wants, I see no reason not to give it to them. Especially if it will bring EVERY MORE users over to the platform because that is what they have been waiting for. Why not give the consumer. While I think SOME cannibalization will occur, I don't think it would be as drastic as one would think. The lines are very clearly different. There is a large group waiting for some sort of desktop mac from Apple, they have been waiting since the switch to intel. It's time Apple delivered.
Now back to the Mac Pro... where is it?
Still, the Apple Store isn't down, Mac Pros shipping in 1-2 days and no EOL rumours from Big Box vendors, I can't see Apple updating the Pro line in the next few days.
We can still hope, though.
As much as I hate to, I agree with you. If they make it till black friday without announcing them, I don't see apple announcing until MWSF. .
Agreed.
Because of the holiday yesterday, I think they will announce maybe tomorrow.
We'll see.
If indeed MWSF becomes the place, then you can bet the enclosure and ACDs will be redesigned.
In searching MacCentral and AI, I've found some updates have been announced prior to 9:00am EST and others just after 1:00pm EST. So I guess it fluctuates.
Still, the Apple Store isn't down, Mac Pros shipping in 1-2 days and no EOL rumours from Big Box vendors, I can't see Apple updating the Pro line in the next few days.
We can still hope, though.
Hope springs eternal, but my patience doesn't. But what choice do I have? Pay full price for a EOL box? Not going to happen. I'm thinking eBay.
As much as I hate to, I agree with you. If they make it till black friday without announcing them, I don't see apple announcing until MWSF. Reason being is how much it will mess with the quarterly numbers with the machine only being out part of the quarter. Not a foolproof reason, but I feel a good one. Apple loves to manipulate quarterly numbers this way.
I would say that if we get past tomorrow with no updates, you can forget about it. Nothing until '08.
C'mon Apple, purty please!??!!!
Definitely! They have compile farms (groups of computers) that do nothing but compile. I haven't done it with XCode, but I have done it with Visual Studio in MFC. You can network 2 computers together, work on one compile and debug on another. Or just use another for pure compiling. Or both of them for compiling. I'm pretty sure XCode has that capability, but again I haven't done it before on XCode. It's a pretty cool feature.
Thank you, I learn something everyday.
...
Apple's desktop sales are lagging. While the rest of the industries is doing fine.
....
Slight nitpick. The last quarterly results showed that Apple desktop sales had indeed exceeded the industry in market share gains, significantly. I don't remember the exact numbers but is was dramatic. Only reenforcing Apple's current stratetgy of AIO and Mac mini.
Still, the Apple Store isn't down, Mac Pros shipping in 1-2 days and no EOL rumours from Big Box vendors, I can't see Apple updating the Pro line in the next few days.
We can still hope, though.
I've been telling these clowns MWSF for 5 months but nobody listens.
At least you deduced your opinion from reasonable places, and sources of information. I won't give mine, but it's just as obvious.
Slight nitpick. The last quarterly results showed that Apple desktop sales had indeed exceeded the industry in market share gains, significantly. I don't remember the exact numbers but is was dramatic. Only reenforcing Apple's current stratetgy of AIO and Mac mini.
Last quarter also saw the redesign of those machines, which had to have some impact on last quarter's numbers. Before then, they had much lower growth on desktops than notebooks.
Last quarter also saw the redesign of those machines, which had to have some impact on last quarter's numbers. Before then, they had much lower growth on desktops than notebooks.
Imagine what more desktop improvments would do?
For the real high end MacPro a new video card is probably the biggest issue. Increases in front side bus and increases in speed from 3 to 3.2 will be nice but price performance may not change that much. This machine is the X5482 with a 5400 chipset. Minor power improvements over the current MacPro.
At the next level or midrange there is a problem. Do you go for a X5472 with a 5400 chipset and FB-Dimms (Speed) or the E5472 chip (expensive) with a 5100 chipset that supports DDR memory (lower bus speed and cheaper) and save significantly on the power requirements (Green)?
The Intel watts/performance specs seems to use the 5100 chipset at 1333 Mhz with DDR to tout the advantages of Penryn.
I know what I want and I am sure that Apple will make my decision as difficult as possible. I may even end up waiting for that *%&# elusive xMac.
Last quarter also saw the redesign of those machines, which had to have some impact on last quarter's numbers. Before then, they had much lower growth on desktops than notebooks.
Point taken. I'll wait until this quarters desktop sales to see if there is really any trend.
Edit: On further thought, it may not matter. It is how Apple perceives this extraordinary growth in desktop sales. I believe it will still reinforce Apple's current AIO stratetgy and they will stay the course.