If O2 allowed current customers to simply buy an iPhone and continue with their current contract I think sales would improve. But only a fool (or someone who has enough money to burn) would buy an iPhone when stuck with the awful selection of tariffs O2 has put on offer.
Got it in one. The iPhone is not competing adequately because it makes two fundamental errors, it's way more expensive than much of the competition and lacks features the competition already have. Something has to give - either the price/tariffs or the functions (3G, MMS etc.).
I agree with SpinDrift - and the response I've had from people has ranged from "That's not too expensive, when you think it's also an iPod" right up to "I'm soooo jealous!". I think it's a bloody miracle that Apple have managed to sell ANY considering the near endless bad press that has been drummed up ever since the US launch.
Sheesh - here's is something that actually, for once, feels like something you'd expect to be using in the 21st century, and all people can do is bitch and moan !
I do think that the iPhone is not for everyone - especially if you just want a cheap phone just to make phone calls on - but I also think that for a surprising number of people it's really the first true convergence device that you can actually use.
Kinda weird. Now that the Mac is finally making serious inroads, we're seeing the whole pattern repeated with the iPhone....
I agree with you. Why does the UK press have such a negative attitude the Apple. Seems to have always been like this ...
Personally, I decided to wait with my purchase of the iPhone for the two reasons:
(1) You are stuck with the contract (and phone) for 18 months and the hardware is already 6 months old - probably an updated iPhone will be released over the next 6-9 months, I prefer to make that commitment on new hardware only. Most significant will be the software updates of course, but even adding another 8 Gb to the memory will make a difference worth waiting for, especially with the new software around the corner when the SDK is released early next year.
(2) It's all nice to have unlimited UK data access, but for those of us who travel the roaming data rates are far too high, > 6 pounds per Mb (that's almost $12) in continental Europe, so the benefits of the iPhone are totally lost once you're outside this geographically small country, unless you are willing to pay those data rates. This is less of an issue in a country as vast as the U.S. where you can roam with unlimited data from coast to coast, a much, much larger area. They (O2) have to come up with attractive data roaming packages. Normally I have a number of sim cards in my wallet which I change when crossing the border, but obviously that doesn't work in this case...
Got it in one. The iPhone is not competing adequately because it makes two fundamental errors, it's way more expensive than much of the competition and lacks features the competition already have.
mmm ... well the list of features it has, that nothing else has, is far longer! An avid Blackberry user sat with me yesterday and watched me do stuff on my iPhone and turned green before my eyes. He is going to get one today
mmm ... well the list of features it has, that nothing else has, is far longer! An avid Blackberry user sat with me yesterday and watched me do stuff on my iPhone and turned green before my eyes. He is going to get one today
That's not difficult. Blackberries are pretty feature-lite too.
Apple made a mistake and now they have to admit it and either cut the price or lose out on sales.
I was going to bet that you'd then be condemning Apple for screwing their users with a price cut, but looked up your threads and see that you were supportive of Apple on that one.
Pays to research before posting, huh?
I just tend to think that the initial 'Tickle Me Elmo' phase has passed, and the iPhone will float on its own merits. Not too worried about that.
I know a few people who bought one in the UK and the reaction from others seems to be the same as people have been saying here. The iphone has impressed people in the UK but the people I knew had to either buy out contracts or wait until they ran out, sometimes at great expense.
O2 certainly isn't the best network around either.
But on top of that, Apple does seem to be viewed quite negatively in general. I often meet PC users - even ones who don't know much about computers - being quite outspoken against Apple because of their rip-off prices and incompatibility. Apple seems to have developed a bad reputation and I think there are a number of reasons.
First of all, the extra charges they put on products compared to the US. Other manufacturers manage to keep their prices in check:
Picked a random machine-
Dell US Optiplex 755 = $517
Dell UK Optiplex 755 = £279
If you take the exchange rate from $517, you get £250 + 17.5% VAT = £295 so Dell are making their machines cheaper over here.
Apple US Macbook Pro = $1999
Apple UK Macbook Pro = £1299
The exchange means it's £970 + 17.5% = £1139. Even £1199 would be ok but a £160 charge for not being an American is insulting.
Then there's the fact that special features come to the US first like itunes movies or the Apple TV.
If they treat people outside the US as second class citizens then they shouldn't be surprised when that favor is returned.
They don't seem to understand that if they treat customers better, they will be rewarded with better support from them. They seem to think that by making a great product gives them a right to behave however they please with exclusive contracts and high pricing. Sony made this mistake too and look how much of a beating their PS3 has taken. Oh sure they said, it doesn't matter if the PS3 is priced high, people will still buy it. Oh really, so why now release a cheaper 40GB version with features cut out?
The UK iphone should have cost at most £199 with such an expensive contract, it should have been 3G and should have had a fully fledged developer kit. Not to mention free ring-tones and a few other things.
I'd LOVE an iPhone, and I'm the sort of person that will go out and buy things and think about the cost later.
In this case it's the tariff with 02. My past dealings with them have been awful and so I won't touch it while you have to sign up with them.
18 month contracts are actually still quite rare in the UK, with most going for 12 months, or if you go for 18, it's because you're getting a really good deal on the phone too.
My work colleagues ALL say they would like an iPhone, there is no doubt about that, but the cost is just too prohibitive.
The £269 price doesn't really bother me. I WANT an iPhone and am willing to pay that to get one. Heck, I'd even pay a bit more. So what has stopped me getting one? The tariffs. They suck. My monthly expenditure would go up bigtime if I got an iPhone. Who knows - if the wife gets me a surprise one for Christmas I'll probably give in and sign up ...
It's not cheaper than the competition. Not by a long shot.
Actually it IS cheaper than the competition... by a long shot.
Looking at the price plans alone, and ignoring the "features" of the phone, you get unlimited data and Wifi thrown in for free. Unlimited data on any other phone on O2, or any other network is going to cost at least £7.50 a month if you're lucky, most likely £12.50. So far so good. Add in Wifi, and you're looking to add another £5.00 at least, a month. SO that's around £15 on top of the tariff of minutes.
Look at Vodafone's unlimited data - don't do one, Oranges - don't do one, T-Mobile (£7.50 or 12.50), or 3 - £5.00 at least, or "unlimited" data with limits.
The cost of the iPhone is more expensive than other phones, but this also has plenty of features that are actually useful, like the touch screen, and the excellent software which is being improved all the time (3 upgrades so far in the US), whereas other networks phones from Nokia often don't get an upgrade at all, and buying unbranded doesn't always help.
All in all the iPhone's UI, with the features that are useful - hello Safari - and for the first time no worry that the data bill might be extortion, is frankly life changing.
I'm sure we all regret it not having 3G, but no matter how good it was, and no matter how many features they'd crammed in, someone would always call it a dud. Just like they did with iPod!
Apple's products are always overpriced outside of the US. Seriously, 269 GBP is completely unreasonable when they're selling it for $399 in the US. Just like 1299 GBP is a crazy price for a 1999 USD MacBook Pro.
Too expensive, two missing key features, and a duff spec for the camera.
For us the missing key features are the lack of 3G / HSDPA, and the ability for phone to provide a data link for laptop over bluetooth. The dud spec is the camera resolution (we use the camera in our phones to capture work-in-progress).
The tariff is expensive too. We don't care so much about purchase price - we are heavy phone users and our monthly usage cost is far bigger issue than initial transaction cost.
Right now we've got N95s, and they are doing very well for us. We'll wait and see what iPhone2 (or EuroiPhone) looks like should one appear (we assume 3G / better camera spec version is only weeks away...). But unless O2 start offering competitive tariff terms, can't see us moving any time soon.
Actually it IS cheaper than the competition... by a long shot.
Looking at the price plans alone, and ignoring the "features" of the phone, you get unlimited data and Wifi thrown in for free. Unlimited data on any other phone on O2, or any other network is going to cost at least £7.50 a month if you're lucky, most likely £12.50. So far so good. Add in Wifi, and you're looking to add another £5.00 at least, a month. SO that's around £15 on top of the tariff of minutes.
Look at Vodafone's unlimited data - don't do one, Oranges - don't do one, T-Mobile (£7.50 or 12.50), or 3 - £5.00 at least, or "unlimited" data with limits.
The cost of the iPhone is more expensive than other phones, but this also has plenty of features that are actually useful, like the touch screen, and the excellent software which is being improved all the time (3 upgrades so far in the US), whereas other networks phones from Nokia often don't get an upgrade at all, and buying unbranded doesn't always help.
All in all the iPhone's UI, with the features that are useful - hello Safari - and for the first time no worry that the data bill might be extortion, is frankly life changing.
I'm sure we all regret it not having 3G, but no matter how good it was, and no matter how many features they'd crammed in, someone would always call it a dud. Just like they did with iPod!
Excellent points. A couple of questions/observations:
1) What is the share of iPods in the UK? Is it as high as that in the US?
2) How do these sales compare to those of comparable 'smart'phones (e.g., N95) in the UK? (I have never seen any numbers on them, yet the tech-literati in forums like these are always praising them, and talking about how feature-lite the iPhone is).
3) How many phones is 1% of the UK mobile phone market? (The survey shouldn't be troubling as long as it says that 1% of consumers are interested every year?)
Apple's products are always overpriced outside of the US. Seriously, 269 GBP is completely unreasonable when they're selling it for $399 in the US. Just like 1299 GBP is a crazy price for a 1999 USD MacBook Pro.
Here we go again, without understanding or pointing out the difference between pre-tax and post-tax numbers!
The promised O2 advertising blitz just didn't happen. You would have imagined our big Champions' League (Pan-European) soccer matches would have been ideal but were ignored. The U.K. 'I'm a Celebrity', get me out of here , (another big crowd puller) wasn't used - and most other popular mainstream programmes such as the X factor and our big soap operas would have been great - however these have been largely if not completely ignored. Instead they seem to have decided that their demographic was represented by the minority Channel 4 ( and I've only seen a handful of the ads on there) - not enough to make a breakthrough. Now maybe I've just missed them but I definitely think they could have advertised more effectively!
I have worked with Apple in the past and know they originally intended a more ala-cart MVNO model for the Iphone. I think that it was a cash generation decision to partner up. Originally T-Mobile was the preferred partner for the whole of Europe back in 2005 when i was involved.
I'm not a power phone user and i understand the phone segmentation in the UK better than most. The iphone is a great product, but for me the ratio for success is a good mixture of hardware and tariff.
I left o2 last week after 18 months. The service was unremarkable and the customer service pretty average. o2's faults to my mind have always been their back end systems which are poor/ terrible net-billing system integration ( its never worked for me ) and an inflated tariff structure.
As a Apple nut everyone was quite surprised when i turned up in the office sporting a 3 Skype phone. Sure its on an 18 month contract but the phone was free, and it comes with 4,000 Skype minutes over the voice network so its very good, 300 anytime minutes and then 300 3-3 user minutes. I also get unlimited 3G web all for £21.00 all in with VAT.
o2 simply can't compete. Its not really about the hardware, in the end i bought a touch. The UK market really is more about the networks and the pricing of tariffs. Yes we are used to fully subsidised phones and why would we want to change now.
The best thing Apple could do in my opinion is get the new Iphone out in Feb not May and get more flexibility in the tariffs with bolt ons and a cheaper price of entry!
For me, the iphone as a device is fantastic, and the price is totally justifiable. it's at least 5 years ahead of its time and merges many current device into one fantastic gadget. Sure, over £200 is expensive, but you get what you pay for. For me it is the network that lets the side down, although O2 is actually my current network provider, the tariffs available for iphone users are appalling, £35 as a minimum monthly contract as well as a shocking 200 texts and 200 minutes is totally ridiculous. 02 is just pinning their hopes on the iphone being so good that buyers will overlook the poor contract, a serious oversight in my eyes
Comments
If O2 allowed current customers to simply buy an iPhone and continue with their current contract I think sales would improve. But only a fool (or someone who has enough money to burn) would buy an iPhone when stuck with the awful selection of tariffs O2 has put on offer.
Got it in one. The iPhone is not competing adequately because it makes two fundamental errors, it's way more expensive than much of the competition and lacks features the competition already have. Something has to give - either the price/tariffs or the functions (3G, MMS etc.).
I agree with SpinDrift - and the response I've had from people has ranged from "That's not too expensive, when you think it's also an iPod" right up to "I'm soooo jealous!". I think it's a bloody miracle that Apple have managed to sell ANY considering the near endless bad press that has been drummed up ever since the US launch.
Sheesh - here's is something that actually, for once, feels like something you'd expect to be using in the 21st century, and all people can do is bitch and moan !
I do think that the iPhone is not for everyone - especially if you just want a cheap phone just to make phone calls on - but I also think that for a surprising number of people it's really the first true convergence device that you can actually use.
Kinda weird. Now that the Mac is finally making serious inroads, we're seeing the whole pattern repeated with the iPhone....
I agree with you. Why does the UK press have such a negative attitude the Apple. Seems to have always been like this ...
(1) You are stuck with the contract (and phone) for 18 months and the hardware is already 6 months old - probably an updated iPhone will be released over the next 6-9 months, I prefer to make that commitment on new hardware only. Most significant will be the software updates of course, but even adding another 8 Gb to the memory will make a difference worth waiting for, especially with the new software around the corner when the SDK is released early next year.
(2) It's all nice to have unlimited UK data access, but for those of us who travel the roaming data rates are far too high, > 6 pounds per Mb (that's almost $12) in continental Europe, so the benefits of the iPhone are totally lost once you're outside this geographically small country, unless you are willing to pay those data rates. This is less of an issue in a country as vast as the U.S. where you can roam with unlimited data from coast to coast, a much, much larger area. They (O2) have to come up with attractive data roaming packages. Normally I have a number of sim cards in my wallet which I change when crossing the border, but obviously that doesn't work in this case...
Got it in one. The iPhone is not competing adequately because it makes two fundamental errors, it's way more expensive than much of the competition and lacks features the competition already have.
mmm ... well the list of features it has, that nothing else has, is far longer! An avid Blackberry user sat with me yesterday and watched me do stuff on my iPhone and turned green before my eyes. He is going to get one today
mmm ... well the list of features it has, that nothing else has, is far longer! An avid Blackberry user sat with me yesterday and watched me do stuff on my iPhone and turned green before my eyes. He is going to get one today
That's not difficult. Blackberries are pretty feature-lite too.
Apple made a mistake and now they have to admit it and either cut the price or lose out on sales.
I was going to bet that you'd then be condemning Apple for screwing their users with a price cut, but looked up your threads and see that you were supportive of Apple on that one.
Pays to research before posting, huh?
I just tend to think that the initial 'Tickle Me Elmo' phase has passed, and the iPhone will float on its own merits. Not too worried about that.
It's not cheaper than the competition. Not by a long shot.
At the same service levels, it is cheaper.
O2 certainly isn't the best network around either.
But on top of that, Apple does seem to be viewed quite negatively in general. I often meet PC users - even ones who don't know much about computers - being quite outspoken against Apple because of their rip-off prices and incompatibility. Apple seems to have developed a bad reputation and I think there are a number of reasons.
First of all, the extra charges they put on products compared to the US. Other manufacturers manage to keep their prices in check:
Picked a random machine-
Dell US Optiplex 755 = $517
Dell UK Optiplex 755 = £279
If you take the exchange rate from $517, you get £250 + 17.5% VAT = £295 so Dell are making their machines cheaper over here.
Apple US Macbook Pro = $1999
Apple UK Macbook Pro = £1299
The exchange means it's £970 + 17.5% = £1139. Even £1199 would be ok but a £160 charge for not being an American is insulting.
Then there's the fact that special features come to the US first like itunes movies or the Apple TV.
If they treat people outside the US as second class citizens then they shouldn't be surprised when that favor is returned.
They don't seem to understand that if they treat customers better, they will be rewarded with better support from them. They seem to think that by making a great product gives them a right to behave however they please with exclusive contracts and high pricing. Sony made this mistake too and look how much of a beating their PS3 has taken. Oh sure they said, it doesn't matter if the PS3 is priced high, people will still buy it. Oh really, so why now release a cheaper 40GB version with features cut out?
The UK iphone should have cost at most £199 with such an expensive contract, it should have been 3G and should have had a fully fledged developer kit. Not to mention free ring-tones and a few other things.
In this case it's the tariff with 02. My past dealings with them have been awful and so I won't touch it while you have to sign up with them.
18 month contracts are actually still quite rare in the UK, with most going for 12 months, or if you go for 18, it's because you're getting a really good deal on the phone too.
My work colleagues ALL say they would like an iPhone, there is no doubt about that, but the cost is just too prohibitive.
It's not cheaper than the competition. Not by a long shot.
Actually it IS cheaper than the competition... by a long shot.
Looking at the price plans alone, and ignoring the "features" of the phone, you get unlimited data and Wifi thrown in for free. Unlimited data on any other phone on O2, or any other network is going to cost at least £7.50 a month if you're lucky, most likely £12.50. So far so good. Add in Wifi, and you're looking to add another £5.00 at least, a month. SO that's around £15 on top of the tariff of minutes.
Look at Vodafone's unlimited data - don't do one, Oranges - don't do one, T-Mobile (£7.50 or 12.50), or 3 - £5.00 at least, or "unlimited" data with limits.
The cost of the iPhone is more expensive than other phones, but this also has plenty of features that are actually useful, like the touch screen, and the excellent software which is being improved all the time (3 upgrades so far in the US), whereas other networks phones from Nokia often don't get an upgrade at all, and buying unbranded doesn't always help.
All in all the iPhone's UI, with the features that are useful - hello Safari - and for the first time no worry that the data bill might be extortion, is frankly life changing.
I'm sure we all regret it not having 3G, but no matter how good it was, and no matter how many features they'd crammed in, someone would always call it a dud. Just like they did with iPod!
For us the missing key features are the lack of 3G / HSDPA, and the ability for phone to provide a data link for laptop over bluetooth. The dud spec is the camera resolution (we use the camera in our phones to capture work-in-progress).
The tariff is expensive too. We don't care so much about purchase price - we are heavy phone users and our monthly usage cost is far bigger issue than initial transaction cost.
Right now we've got N95s, and they are doing very well for us. We'll wait and see what iPhone2 (or EuroiPhone) looks like should one appear (we assume 3G / better camera spec version is only weeks away...). But unless O2 start offering competitive tariff terms, can't see us moving any time soon.
Actually it IS cheaper than the competition... by a long shot.
Looking at the price plans alone, and ignoring the "features" of the phone, you get unlimited data and Wifi thrown in for free. Unlimited data on any other phone on O2, or any other network is going to cost at least £7.50 a month if you're lucky, most likely £12.50. So far so good. Add in Wifi, and you're looking to add another £5.00 at least, a month. SO that's around £15 on top of the tariff of minutes.
Look at Vodafone's unlimited data - don't do one, Oranges - don't do one, T-Mobile (£7.50 or 12.50), or 3 - £5.00 at least, or "unlimited" data with limits.
The cost of the iPhone is more expensive than other phones, but this also has plenty of features that are actually useful, like the touch screen, and the excellent software which is being improved all the time (3 upgrades so far in the US), whereas other networks phones from Nokia often don't get an upgrade at all, and buying unbranded doesn't always help.
All in all the iPhone's UI, with the features that are useful - hello Safari - and for the first time no worry that the data bill might be extortion, is frankly life changing.
I'm sure we all regret it not having 3G, but no matter how good it was, and no matter how many features they'd crammed in, someone would always call it a dud. Just like they did with iPod!
Excellent points. A couple of questions/observations:
1) What is the share of iPods in the UK? Is it as high as that in the US?
2) How do these sales compare to those of comparable 'smart'phones (e.g., N95) in the UK? (I have never seen any numbers on them, yet the tech-literati in forums like these are always praising them, and talking about how feature-lite the iPhone is).
3) How many phones is 1% of the UK mobile phone market? (The survey shouldn't be troubling as long as it says that 1% of consumers are interested every year?)
Apple's products are always overpriced outside of the US. Seriously, 269 GBP is completely unreasonable when they're selling it for $399 in the US. Just like 1299 GBP is a crazy price for a 1999 USD MacBook Pro.
Here we go again, without understanding or pointing out the difference between pre-tax and post-tax numbers!
Apple's products are always overpriced outside of the US. Seriously, 269 GBP is completely unreasonable when they're selling it for $399 in the US.
Before the price drop and after taxes I payed 313 pounds for the iPhone. My mobile service is 34 pounds.
If they treat people outside the US as second class citizens then they shouldn't be surprised when that favor is returned.
You are probably right. It doesn't seem Apple has worked as hard to establish a relationship with other markets as it has done in the US.
Still, I love mine and am V.Happy
I'm not a power phone user and i understand the phone segmentation in the UK better than most. The iphone is a great product, but for me the ratio for success is a good mixture of hardware and tariff.
I left o2 last week after 18 months. The service was unremarkable and the customer service pretty average. o2's faults to my mind have always been their back end systems which are poor/ terrible net-billing system integration ( its never worked for me ) and an inflated tariff structure.
As a Apple nut everyone was quite surprised when i turned up in the office sporting a 3 Skype phone. Sure its on an 18 month contract but the phone was free, and it comes with 4,000 Skype minutes over the voice network so its very good, 300 anytime minutes and then 300 3-3 user minutes. I also get unlimited 3G web all for £21.00 all in with VAT.
o2 simply can't compete. Its not really about the hardware, in the end i bought a touch. The UK market really is more about the networks and the pricing of tariffs. Yes we are used to fully subsidised phones and why would we want to change now.
The best thing Apple could do in my opinion is get the new Iphone out in Feb not May and get more flexibility in the tariffs with bolt ons and a cheaper price of entry!