Apple's London flagship still warming initial iPhone supply?

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by deanbar View Post


    While I think the iPhone is a brilliant concept and very Apple-like in its UI, I'm afraid Apple is getting too greedy and seems determined to screw us customers more and more.



    Apart from the ludicrous tariffs, it lacks too many features. Add the missing features most of the competition already have, and make the tariffs comparable to existing schemes, then I'll buy one, not before. This is not like Apple to screw up like this, this is a worrying trend which I hope sensible consumers in Europe will put a stop to.



    Sums up my position quite nicely. I have played with the iPhone and just love the browser, iPod apps but can't understand some of the missing features that are really quite basic (SMS, lack of MMS, inadequate synch with Outlook). Some mates say that the signal strength really is an issue and volume isn't loud enough. But, it's the tariffs are just too expensive for me. Its Apple's right to put whatever price they want on it, but Apple/O2 will struggle to have any real impact at these price levels. Cost of ownership is just too high for me especially as it doesnt have the basic features I "need".



    I'll wait for competition to address the market need at price points more suitable for me, as I cant see O2 dropping their tariffs given how much flesh Apple wants out of the deal.
  • Reply 22 of 46
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by deanbar View Post


    While I think the iPhone is a brilliant concept and very Apple-like in its UI, I'm afraid Apple is getting too greedy and seems determined to screw us customers more and more.



    Apart from the ludicrous tariffs, it lacks too many features. Add the missing features most of the competition already have, and make the tariffs comparable to existing schemes, then I'll buy one, not before. This is not like Apple to screw up like this, this is a worrying trend which I hope sensible consumers in Europe will put a stop to.



    I don't understand how charging more than the market will bear (if that is the case) is behaving like Microsoft or screwing customers.



    Is there some kind of lock-in I'm not aware of that obliges OS X users to get an iPhone or no phone at all? Did Apple send out a secret memo explaining that unless people currently using Apple products acquire an iPhone posthaste their laptops and iPods and software will stop working?



    If Apple has priced the iPhone too high for British buyers, or if the deal they made with O2 (or just O2 themselves) sets the tariff too high, then Apple or O2 or both have misjudged their market, and will suffer the consequences.



    British buyers (even current Mac users) will get to keep their money, Apple will get to keep their iPhones, and (hopefully, if need be) some kind of rethinking will ensue.
  • Reply 23 of 46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jemster View Post


    Unfortunately with the widespread convergence going on, this argument doesn't hold much water with the "idiot" consumer. For example, an N95 has 8GB, plays movies & music, yet it's selling as a phone. The iPhone may be an iPod variation, but it's now competing against phones, not mp3 players.



    I think it does hold water, perhaps it was mis construed. As a piece of hardware it is overlooked. People saying they would not buy it cause it is too expensive. When in reality the hardware is a good deal. The contract is a slightly different matter though.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    Does your username refer to the Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole?



    It does indeed



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    I don't think you are correct. As an iPod, it would be worthless to many, as the capacity is not very great, so that 'feature' is of little use to anyone who needs the capacity of a HD based iPod. If you look at the total cost of ownership of this thing - purchase price + 18 months worth of contract, this thing is ludicrously expensive. Then there are all the areas where it is deficient compared to it's competitors - a 2mp camera in a phone costing that much? It is almost funny in a sad way.



    Do you even get an unlocked phone you can use any way you like at the end of the contract?







    The majority of iPods sold are not big capacity HD ones now though. The nano shuffle etc, so based on that it replaces peoples mini players as well. Obviously HD iPods are different but time will allow for an increase in space.



    As with most different things it will take time before it really starts to move, Europe is generally slow on these things certainly with Apple they are normally.
  • Reply 24 of 46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    If Apple has priced the iPhone too high for British buyers, or if the deal they made with O2 (or just O2 themselves) sets the tariff too high, then Apple or O2 or both have misjudged their market, and will suffer the consequences.



    British buyers (even current Mac users) will get to keep their money, Apple will get to keep their iPhones, and (hopefully, if need be) some kind of rethinking will ensue.



    Sadly I think Apple are more than aware of the situation and are happy to sit back for a while and take the cream customers.



    This is no doubt why 02 went along with it. get the big spenders etc, people who do not go looking for the best deals down to the pound etc.



    No pro sumer but certainly a good business move.
  • Reply 25 of 46
    There is nothing forcing OSX users to buy the iPhone. The point is that regular $129 upgrades is an elective form of subscription an 18 month contract isn't.



    Apple fans want to enjoy the latest product but they won't agree to being ripped off and, as you can read from the comments so far, are opting not to buy.. Commenting here is just a way of passing a message to Apple as to why their sales aren't meeting targets.



    As you say Apple aren't in the storage business they want to ship product and if it isn't moving they will have to adjust their price point and tariff agreement with O2 and try again. If they had got it right first time the 2 per customer restriction would look slightly less comical.
  • Reply 26 of 46
    I'm another UK potential buyer who'd love an iPhone.



    Yes, I'd be happy with PAYG but price is not my major problem. I don't live near a major population centre, nobody at O2 (or Apple) can tell me if I can get EDGE coverage anywhere near where I live or work.



    I can get Cloud near home but only in pubs that I don't frequent (I ain't paying good money to have to go and sit in a pub I don't want to be in, just to browse the web!).



    Orange have good coverage down here but O2? They are crap. Roll on a UK Orange iPhone! (5 years away?)



    IF Apple can give O2 a kick up the arse to QUICKLY expand their EDGE coverage (or give us 3G) then I'm onboard, but their are a quite a few people down here who are already less than impressed with the web access on their iPhones. All was good while the novelty factor was there but as the reality kicked in, I've heard a few comments from people saying they are considering going back to their 3G phones. Apple isn't gaining much "halo" effect thanks to O2 not warning people that without EDGE they won't get the best out of their shiny new toy.
  • Reply 27 of 46
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sedicivalvole View Post


    It does indeed



    I still don't agree. I drive one as well Mine's a white two door.
  • Reply 28 of 46
    Well... maybe. I don't really know enough or care enough about the UK cellphone market (even though I live there) to know if it's over priced or not.



    I've been on a contract of one sort or another since the year dot, any my last contract (which only just finished) was £35 or £40/month - with NO data (or something completely daft like £4/megabyte, which meant I never used it, even if I had been able to get my phone to actually access the internet, which despite about a dozen calls to Vodafone and a zillion text messages which supposedly contained the relevant settings I still never managed to do).



    So, I bought an iPhone, and am very, very happy indeed with it. Very happy indeed. Unlimited data (and Internet access that actually works) are well worth the price as far as I'm concerned. The main thing is that everything actually works as expected, and it's the only device I have that still brings a smile of pleasure to my face every time I pick it up.



    -Rolf
  • Reply 29 of 46
    irelandireland Posts: 17,785member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ottocrat View Post


    Either improve the spec, or reduce the price, or better still both. If not, Apple will not compete in Europe, and that would be really sad because the iPhone's UI has the potential to make the mobile comms experience so much better.



    Well said. Those O2 plans are dire too to be fair though.



    PS, I have my own iPhone on the way from the US €269
  • Reply 30 of 46
    [QUOTE=ottocrat;1177544]I think the consistency in the reactions of European users in this thread should tell us something about the approach Apple has taken to overseas markets. Either they haven't done their research, or they've chosen to ignore their research. I suspect the latter. Apple has always focused very heavily on its home market in the US, overseas markets have always been an afterthought. Well, fair enough, in the past Apple haven't been that big a company and have needed to focus on their core domestic market.





    I think you have a very good point. Apple throw great products at the Europeans, But that is it! The rest is pretty poor:

    -Try an Apple TV in Europe. Its just a glorified music server, the rest of the functionality/Interactivity is useless here.

    -Video iPods. Where in Europe can you buy movies? In ANY language? Music videos yes, but compare the price to the US.

    -Compare the prices of ALL apple products to the US.

    -Ever tried a Mac in a foreign language. If Steve were a German, he'd be having the heeby jeebies about the pathetic translation.

    -It's taken the EU to take Apple to task on the iTunes Store not allowing cross border purchases.



    In Germany the general press reception for the iPhone is pisspoor to put it nicely. Anyone who stops me with my iPhone (of course I have one) can list all the issues the press have been hammering home since day one, wether these are relevant is another issue. But they know them by heart and believe them. Changing this attitude is going to be a long hard pr slog, and it is not gonna work doing it from San Fransisco.

    Blaming the country Apple outfits would be a laugh, they probably have zero influence in anything (except making sure the profits stay ih line).



    So I really do not see the iPhone translating into the short term success it should be.



    The worst gripe about the iPhone. I cant even listen to music. The earphones are beyond §$%% and try and find a pair that fit the slot... let alone a pair that have a mic.



    The point I am trying to make is that the same way his other famous countryman has lost the hearts and minds of the Europeans, Steve has too. Or maybe he has never had them to start with.
  • Reply 31 of 46
    jingojingo Posts: 109member
    I would love to have an iPhone but I've bought an iPod Touch instead. I'd prefer an iPhone, but I'm not prepared to pay the inflated rip-off price for it (£269 against what should be roughly £169 - at the current exchange rate taking VAT into account). Apple may get away with it for Macs (although it's one of the reasons I haven't bought a Mac portable yet) but it's a different matter in an aggressive marketplace like cellphones.



    In addition there's the matter of the O2 lock-in and the rip-off price plans. Why would I commit to something like this? O2's service is cr*p and known to be so, and most people already have a very reasonable price plan with someone else. Not to mention all the people whose cellphone is provided by their company on a different carrier than O2 - no way they can get an iPhone.



    I'm quite prepared to pay a reasonable price for a good product, but Apple seem to be expecting us to pay a ridiculously inflated price for an OK product. I really do think that they need to grow up - they are showing a singular immaturity in terms of understanding the realities of this new market they are attempting to enter.
  • Reply 32 of 46
    I would love to get an iphone, the problem isnt the £269 for the phone or the £35 per month tariff, for me i am forced in to the 18 month contract, which i dont like to be tied down for that length of a period!....and especially for a phone that does'nt have 3G , GPS , only 2 meg camera , no MMS , not able to play movies , APPLE YOU LISTENING. where only talking Macworld in January before we see the next version, why dosent O2 do a Pre Pay option on there network??????
  • Reply 33 of 46
    Two lacking features that are commonly deemed critical to the iPhones success by critics, I just don't understand:



    1. Lack of MMS. MMSs are insanley expensive and (IMO) absolutely useless.



    2. Camera (or its resolution). I just recently had to take some pictures with my mobile (SE K800i, 3.2MP camera) because they forgot to fetch the SLR. Not only that it took forever from pushing the button to taking the picture, the pictures turned out horribly and barely useable. I wish Apple would have omitted the camera.



    3. Lack of 3G. What would you use 3G for on an iPhone, what do you use it for on other phones? In Germany, 3G is reliantly available in urban ares only whereas T-Mobile's EDGE coverage will be extended on the whole country by year's end. The included data plans allow for HTTP trafic only anyway.



    Has anyone ever tried Vodafone's iPhone competitor, the SAMSUNG F700 (aka QBOWL)? I think it's horrible despite its better specs. It might look better than the iPhone on paper but the UI is very inconsitent and simply "user-unfriendly". Its browser does not scale and zoom the page, it renders them according to available screenspace (which is scarce) and the only way to zoom out is by reducing the font size (same as pusing command + "-" on the Mac). Despite it having 3G, the Web is just a pain to use.



    I haven't seen LG's latest but the one I played around with had a "nice" first menu screen. Underneath, it was pure Win mobile and as such unusable without a stylus.



    Although the tarifs could offer more (e.g. roll-over minutes) and be more flexible, I think a data flatrate is essential as tech unsavvy users don't count the bits transmitted (and I think they shouldn't have to).
  • Reply 34 of 46
    I, for one, would like to thank UK customers for NOT buying the iPhone in droves.



    By setting a slow sales pace, it sends the message that:



    1) The high cost of the unit in addition to (and most of all because of) the high cost of a fixed length contract is a serious financial commitment.



    2) The lack of availability of an unlocked phone, in order to give choice of either provider or option to use pre-paid SIMs, shows a serious lack of understanding of the European market.



    3) The premium price is not justified by the lack of development since the June release - the phone is still very much 1st generation, for the following and other reasons:



    - The lack of 3G for such a high-priced (cost + contract) phone is intolerable.

    - At the very least, a 16GB model should have been presented as an enticement.

    - The software, while adapted to international formats (essential for release), has not had much other development, eg, the lack of MMS, notes syncing, other apps, etc.

    - Apple seems to have spent more time revising its security lockdowns to prevent illicit unlocking - a fool's errand that simply demonstrates how greedy they are for network revenue.



    While the UI of the iPhone is superb and still state of the art, the slow pace of sales in the UK vs the US market demonstrates that Apple should not rest on those laurels alone.



    So, again, thank you non-buying UK customers! It provides proof to what many have previously claimed.
  • Reply 35 of 46
    I bought a UK iPhone and am now regretting it. the price of £269 is fair enough, what is not fair are the tariffs. I'm on the cheapest £35 per month for 18 months, including the price of the iPhone, That's a total of £899 (more than a Mac Book) in the US that would be an extortionate $1,855,94! The iPhone is great, but not that great, with it's lack of 3G, GPS and poor (after thought) camera. Opting for the £55 per month option does not bear thinking about... £1,094 or $2,258.70! - at the end of the day it's only a phone and these are NOT phone prices.



    The iPhone is a beautiful product and that was the reason I bought mine, not thinking too much about the O2 contract. I would recommend that anyone thinking about an iPhone, thinks more carefully than I did. I am now counting down the months until I can break free of this horrible contract, put my iPhone on Ebay to recoup a fraction of the cost and return to a more reasonable tariff or Pay as You Go.



    Apple needs to urgently rethink it's UK strategy. The iPhone, despite it's lack of features is a great device and deserves to sell better in this country. Everyone wants one but is waiting for a price drop.



    At it's currant price I'm not able to recommend it to friends. Also who is going to buy an iPhone as a Christmas gift with these contracts attached? the unreasonable ownership cost is a huge deterrent. If Apple were to sell the iPhone unlocked with a reasonable choice of tariffs they would be flying off the shelves.



    The fact that Apple has abandoned Firewire is also dissapointing.
  • Reply 36 of 46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by michaelb View Post


    I, for one, would like to thank UK customers for NOT buying the iPhone in droves.



    .



    There is no doubt that the capability of the iPhone itself as a phone are very poor:

    1) no MMS

    2) no recognition of international numbers. If you store a number as +44 123456789 and your operator send the ID 0123456789 the iPhone cannot make the match. All the phones can do that!

    3) You cannot clear the missed call logs only. You must clear everything!

    4) You cannot set different ring profiles.

    5) Another interesting thing is that the contacts country list is very limited. There are countries like Yemen but no Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia. Why Yemen is so important?



    Max
  • Reply 37 of 46
    Let's face it, you could advertise dogshit on a stick enough in the states, and people would buy it. Also true in the UK, but slightly less so. The difference is that US customers are used to being locked in until the phone is obsolete, and overpaying, which Europeans aren't. We're used to way more value when it comes to mobile phones, and the iPhone just doesn't have a lot of basic features that cheaper phones here have. While it has a touch screen (gimicky), it's already been detailed what it doesn't have, and using it as a primary MP3 device means charging it almost every day so I can still take calls after watching a movie or listening to music for 4 or 5 hours... I'm used to charging my nokia (with 2gig memory, cost about 150? WITHOUT CONTRACT) every 6 or 7 days.
  • Reply 38 of 46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jingo View Post


    I would love to have an iPhone but I've bought an iPod Touch instead. I'd prefer an iPhone, but I'm not prepared to pay the inflated rip-off price for it (£269 against what should be roughly £169 - at the current exchange rate taking VAT into account).



    Sorry... where did that figure come from????



    U.S. iPhone = $399 ... exchange rate approx. $2.05 / £ = £195



    V.A.T. = 17.5% = £34



    therefore UK price (if no other costs involved) should be £195 + £34 = £229



    So we're paying £40 for the privilege of being this side of the pond. Although I don't agree with paying more (After all, these things aren't made in USA so arguing additional shipping costs doesn't hold water) a £40 difference is not nearly so bad as the £100 you're stating. Is there a cheaper iPhone I've not heard of?
  • Reply 39 of 46
    g-newsg-news Posts: 1,107member
    Apple simply didn't do its homework properly for the European market.

    The iPhone may be a revolutionary product in the states, but for an European market, it's -at least the current offerings - an overpriced, underpowered gimmick that simply asks for too much ties and restrictions to be really appealing to a broad European mass market.

    They will have to adapt to this in the future, maybe with a 2nd generation iPhone, or they'll never take off in Europe.
  • Reply 40 of 46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    I still don't agree. I drive one as well Mine's a white two door.



    Have two 5 doors as a "fun car". For use in nice weather (not very often at the moment!)
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