Macbook Pro update?

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  • Reply 41 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    It's a cut down pro model so should be the cheapest in that lineup but it's still a pro model so should be higher than the MB. If it uses high capacity flash components then the higher price will be justified.



    ok. so the MB will still be the cheapest laptop they'll have? (i have a budget) and for the flash memory.. is it worth spending all the extra money or will i be fine with the current hard drive MB's.
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  • Reply 42 of 59
    Marvinmarvin Posts: 15,584moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zacharysykes View Post


    So my question is, if there is an updated MBP in January (?) historically, what effect has it had on the "previous" model price?



    I think the Macbook Pro price came down at one point but I'm not sure. The Macbook certainly did but it might have been a UK thing. I think Apple decided to reduce their phoney premium for not being an American from ridiculous to still ridiculous but better. It was a £50 reduction or something.



    Usually prices stay the same and the technology gets better but there is room for some fluctuation.



    There tend to be more refurb models though so you might be able to pick up a model that is the current generation for say 10-15% off. There are some available now:



    http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...nplm=FA867LL/A



    http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...nplm=FA895LL/A



    Those prices aren't too bad. But they would likely be cheaper after a new model but it's not always immediate so it could still be 2 months or more. Plus you have to get lucky with the refurb store sometimes.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xx24xx


    i feel a swift kick in my butt coming because i just couldn't wait!



    I don't think you'll be disappointed as you'll have had something to play with over Christmas unlike everyone waiting for Penryn. I wouldn't have bought a 17" myself as I think it defeats the purpose of a portable - even for a desktop replacement, a 15" with a 7200 rpm drive upgrade and an external display would be about the same performance-wise.



    15" (middle model) + 7200 drive = $2699 + 20" display ($300 Samsung maybe) = $2999

    17" + 7200 drive = $2999



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fedeus1


    ok. so the MB will still be the cheapest laptop they'll have? (i have a budget) and for the flash memory.. is it worth spending all the extra money or will i be fine with the current hard drive MB's.



    I reckon so. Apple seem to have a bottom line when it comes to these things and I'd be very surprised to see Apple making an ultra-portable cheaper than the Macbook when Sony's equivalents are almost as expensive as a Macbook Pro.



    I don't know about the flash drives, they might use standard drives but certainly the Macbook drives are fine. They are also easier to replace yourself.
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  • Reply 43 of 59
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Apple seem to have a bottom line when it comes to these things and I'd be very surprised to see Apple making an ultra-portable cheaper than the Macbook when Sony's equivalents are almost as expensive as a Macbook Pro.



    I agree. Anyone who thinks that Apple will offer an ultraportable for a lower price than Sony is ... hmmm, how to express it politely? ... optimistic.
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  • Reply 44 of 59
    so are you guys telling me that there's no point in waiting for the expo? because the MB prices aren't gonna change and because they aren't going to update it?
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  • Reply 45 of 59
    Marvinmarvin Posts: 15,584moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fedeus1 View Post


    so are you guys telling me that there's no point in waiting for the expo? because the MB prices aren't gonna change and because they aren't going to update it?



    Well, if Penryn is ready they could update them - the point was that MW is still two months away so if you don't want to wait that long then buy one now. But also the prices likely won't change as they rarely do and so if you do wait until MW, at best you will be waiting for a Penryn CPU upgrade for the same price. It will still use Santa Rosa and not Montevina, which doesn't come out until sometime in Q2 2008. It might have been worth waiting for a quad mobile chip but they aren't coming until Montevina either:



    http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/09..._quad_mobiles/



    So for people looking for upgrades to the current lineup, I'd say don't bother waiting. As for new models, there's just no information as usual but as I say, if an ultra-portable arrives, there's no indication that it will be cheaper than the Macbook and there's no guarantee you will want to buy it - we don't know what spec it will have at all.
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  • Reply 46 of 59
    I just don't see Apple being competitive right now with their entire notebook line.



    Why?



    Take a look at Dell's XPS notebook line. They have a 13" and a new 15" that are very well designed (especially for Dell), have Santa Rosa arch, and come in about $1000 cheaper at their base configs - which are not specced rock-bottom low as Dell and other PC manufacturers often do.



    I just configured the 15" and it came out to be more than $500 less than the exactly specced MBP. The only thing that was missing was the 6-pin FW port (it had 4-pin). It even had a slot-loading disk drive and a BluRay option and an option for built-in wireless data! I want the MacBook Pro but it's just ludicrous for me to pay over $500 more for a different OS!



    The reason I want the MBP is b/c of gaming and video editing. MS Word 2004 (and soon 2008) doesn't need all that power - my iBook 12" 1.25GHZ has more than enough to handle that. But Apple gave me a choice, I would choose a 13" MBP any day with the same specs. Well, to my dismay, Dell has that 13" XPS notebook also available with an Nvidia 8400GS - more than good enough for gaming and video.



    All this leads me to think that Apple is very hard at work in reworking their entire lineup. At least I hope so. I love Macs and am very productive with my aging iBook, but am not willing to pay a 1/4 premium ($500 out of $2000) just to get a different OS! That's like choosing b/w a car that costs $35000 and one that costs $26,250 for the same features! (and don't tell me about refinement - that Dell notebook is very nice - I was surprised and pissed at the same time).



    What it comes down to with Apple is choice - and currently they aren't giving my any. I want the power of the MBP in a smaller package but currently it's not here. Or I want the MBP as it is now (15") but it's too expensive!



    Here's what I want to see:

    -MacBook Pro notebooks available in 13, 15, and 17" form factors, a wider choice of GPUs, and more USB ports! Drop the price by #300-400 (if more, the better, but I'm willing to pay a $100 premium - the cost of a new box of Leopard in a retail store).

    -MacBook (regular) - available in 13, 15, and 17 form factors and very low GPU options if any. They can be a gen behind the pro lineup in terms of chipset/speed - as Apple currently does.



    Ok - end of rant - I think I've just released some of my fury. Phewwww....
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  • Reply 47 of 59
    It's not a bad time to buy, especially if you're not buying directly from Apple.

    Come January, who knows how long resellers will have to wait to get stock of whatever Apple comes out with.



    The current platform is proven, machines are in stock everywhere. I'm betting the January Penryn refresh isn't going to give us much besides an incremental clockspeed bump at the same price points, and some extra L2 cache. I can almost 100% guarantee that we'll have the same 8600M GT graphics. 8800M is too hot for this platform.



    The big jump will be in late Q2 with Montevina. This brings a die shrink to all of the support chips (not just the CPU!), new wireless and power saving features, 1066MHz bus, and 800MHz memory. This will be a bigger change than Santa Rosa was to the previous generation of MacBook pro, as they're upping the memory speed (and possibly use DDR3) in addition to the bus. So if you really want to wait, wait 6 months.



    But if you want to buy now, go ahead and buy... you'll enjoy the machine (with Leopard) over the holidays, and January probably isn't going to make you feel too bad. I have a feeling that Apple will wait for Montevina to spring a new enclosure, new GPU, HD/Blu-Ray, and other treats.



    RAM is cheap right now, and prices have been going UP. I just bought 4GB or $94 literally this morning, and I see it's at $110 this afternoon at the same store.



    And yes if you're wondering, I also bought a 17" MBP with HD screen from MacConnection and am trying to rationalize not waiting myself
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  • Reply 48 of 59
    Marvinmarvin Posts: 15,584moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alexluft View Post


    I just configured the 15" and it came out to be more than $500 less than the exactly specced MBP. The only thing that was missing was the 6-pin FW port (it had 4-pin). It even had a slot-loading disk drive and a BluRay option and an option for built-in wireless data! I want the MacBook Pro but it's just ludicrous for me to pay over $500 more for a different OS!



    The reason I want the MBP is b/c of gaming and video editing. MS Word 2004 (and soon 2008) doesn't need all that power - my iBook 12" 1.25GHZ has more than enough to handle that. But Apple gave me a choice, I would choose a 13" MBP any day with the same specs. Well, to my dismay, Dell has that 13" XPS notebook also available with an Nvidia 8400GS - more than good enough for gaming and video.



    How does this one compare to the Dell?



    http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...nplm=FA895LL/A



    $100 more but still with a better GPU and design. Things to consider - don't know which the Dell has: LED backlighting, keyboard lighting, ambient brightness sensor, motion sensor, expresscard slot, firewire 800, magnetic power cord, OS X, isight camera.



    I agree that Apple should offer more choice though, they only stock the latest hardware at a fixed price and the only way to get a good deal with a full warranty is a refurb. I can understand why they'd do it as it simplifies sales and keeps their inventory in check but it can be annoying when you have a specific budget.
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  • Reply 49 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    How does this one compare to the Dell?



    http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...nplm=FA895LL/A



    $100 more but still with a better GPU and design. Things to consider - don't know which the Dell has: LED backlighting, keyboard lighting, ambient brightness sensor, motion sensor, expresscard slot, firewire 800, magnetic power cord, OS X, isight camera.



    I agree that Apple should offer more choice though, they only stock the latest hardware at a fixed price and the only way to get a good deal with a full warranty is a refurb. I can understand why they'd do it as it simplifies sales and keeps their inventory in check but it can be annoying when you have a specific budget.



    Well, first of all, when I shell out more than $1500 for a computer, I expect it to be new. Certified Reburbed is great but new is better - and that's what the Dell is. The Dell does have the same GPU as the MBP and an expresscard slot (as a matter of fact, all of Dell notebooks do - unlike the MacBook, which doesn't' have one).



    It's also great that the MBP has FW800 but what kind of consumer uses it? Let me restate that question: WHERE IS THE CONSUMER VERSION OF THE 15" APPLE MAC NOTEBOOK? What do you think: will the consumer who is interested in a well-rounded computer (one on which he can play regular games and do mild video editing as well as browsing, etc.) be interested in a super-fast FW800 port or more USB ports? Remember the MBP 15" only has 2, count-'em, 2 USB ports! I'd say the latter - so the FW800 port - at least for me- is out and is completely useless. Yes, it has its uses, but if you want the ultimate data transfer rates, get an expresscard sata card and get an external esata encolusure. Beats the pants off FW800.



    The Dell does have a 2MP camera but I don't think it has the brightness sensor or the magnetic cord.



    So to sum up, I'm paying almost $600 for a different OS (which is by all respects better but limited in terms of gaming), and a magnetic power cord and an ambient light sensor? Does this sound ridiculous yet? To me it does, and I'm not buying another Mac notebook until the prices either come way down or Apple does the things I asked for in my earlier post.



    Off-topic: the MacBook should cost less than it does since it has no express-card slot, limiting it's expandability completely. Sure it's a consumer notebook, but then where is the consumer 15" notebook, as I asked above?
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  • Reply 50 of 59
    Marvinmarvin Posts: 15,584moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alexluft View Post


    Well, first of all, when I shell out more than $1500 for a computer, I expect it to be new. Certified Reburbed is great but new is better - and that's what the Dell is.



    Yeah I just did a comparison and for roughly the exact same spec, the MBP is coming in at $2224 vs $1644 for the Dell, close to a $600 difference. I don't mind paying a bit more but that is too much. $300 more would be the limit.



    I don't get why Apple don't reduce their price during the product cycle. Surely it would keep sales going right up until a new product and beyond. Right now it's high sales at the start and then people just stop buying near the end of the update cycle.



    When a new model comes out, they'd put the price back up so people would always be weighing up whether to buy now at a cheaper price.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alexluft View Post


    It's also great that the MBP has FW800 but what kind of consumer uses it? Let me restate that question: WHERE IS THE CONSUMER VERSION OF THE 15" APPLE MAC NOTEBOOK?



    Hiding beside the consumer desktop I think. They don't really have one of those either to compete with Dell.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alexluft View Post


    Remember the MBP 15" only has 2, count-'em, 2 USB ports! I'd say the latter - so the FW800 port - at least for me- is out and is completely useless.



    I agree with you there, two USB ports on a laptop is not enough. Every Mac should have 4 these days.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alexluft View Post


    I'm not buying another Mac notebook until the prices either come way down or Apple does the things I asked for in my earlier post.



    The trouble is that they don't seem to listen. People are still buying at the prices they put up and their sales are going up so they are happy. It seems stupid that they appear to have little interest in the middle ground in any of their lineup - you're either a pro or a cheapskate consumer. There's nothing in between and that's the biggest market of all.
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  • Reply 51 of 59
    Oh man, - thanks for agreeing with me! I'm so glad that at least one person shares my views.



    I know that they don't listen - it's funny the way Apple works. I think they're the only company who can get away with it. But I still remember the history - when the original Mac came out and everything was good and jolly and then... well, you know what happened then. Microsoft actually began to listen to their customers and it looks like that's what they're doing with the Zune. Dell is listening to their customers with their line-ups. I guess if Apple decides to ignore me I'll have to ignore them...



    Here's to hoping that they'll listen...
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  • Reply 52 of 59
    I have long been advocating that Apple should have a pro AND consumer notebook in each display size, with the internal components the deciding factor in price.



    As far as the rest goes, there's so much that needs to be addressed with the current MBP design as has been alluded to with the need for more USB ports. But more importantly, something needs to be done with Quality Control. Quite frankly, it sucks. I can blame some of this on China, but the iPhone is made in China and it's great. Whether it's the noise and crackling in the headphone jack on the recent MBP models to the uneven backlight display lighting on a lot of models, keyboards going dead all of a sudden, it's a serious concern that I have.



    Let's talk about the display: Poor viewing angles, uneven lighting on a lot of the models they are putting out (back to QC), and to top it off, the maximum angle the screen can be opened is annoying. WTF, Apple?



    How about the annoying fact that it takes 38 screws to get the damn hard drive? I very much like the consumer MacBook's design where it's very easy to access the internal hard disk.



    Wireless reception...often a sore spot with this line. It's not horrible as it was with the Titanium Powerbooks, but it has a lot to be desired.



    So what's coming? Hopefully a correction of these shortcomings. All of this said, it's easier to say the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. I bet the other brand's notebook have annoying faults too. As a matter of fact, I know they do.
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  • Reply 53 of 59
    I used to own a Dell, and let me tell you, it will for sure be the last. I wont go into detail about all my problems and gripes with them. I used to compare prices between Dell, Apple, HP etc all the time. Apple of course being the most expensive with comparative specs. I really see it worth the extra cash, to a point of course, to stay away from company's like Dell. You pay for quality, service, reliability, expandability etc. Every time I called Dell for something I got someone that had a VERY strong accent and was hard to understand. Then they literally read from a book. ITS TERRIBLE! I'm all for creating jobs in other countries and help them out, but DAMN!



    Oh yeah and my MBP is shipping from Shanghai, CN .... I don't know if that's a good thing or bad. I read in an article that this place has 200K people assembling computers 60+ hours a week. They are mostly women and they get paid $100 a month.
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  • Reply 54 of 59
    DHagan4755, I hear you loud and clear! The USB ports is one thing, but what is up with the maximum screen opening angle? It makes it difficult to see standing up, and I'm not that tall; I can imagine some folks who are over 6 feet tall and how difficult it must be for them to see the screen standing up - like for example when giving a presentation and having to glance at Presenter Tools.



    And really, why does it take almost 40 screws to get to the hard drive? It's not like that in the MacBook and the Dells I've seen only require 2 or 3 screws to be undone before the drive can be replaced. Granted, Dell doesn't have a "flush" bottom of the notebook, but I really don't look at that all that often, if at all.



    Also, why are they still using latches and not the magenetic mechanism the MacBook uses? Even Dell and HP have awoken to the magnetic latchless designs across the board! And Apple still wants to charge me $2000 for a latch!



    I really didn't know there were that many other issues with the MBP QC. The only thing that's happened to me is that the area above the latch button has popped out. Took it to the Apple store... they said they wouldn't do anything about it since it doesn't affect the functionality of the computer. But I didn't know there were any wireless signal reception issues or that the backlighting was uneven. Wow, my Apple ego is really starting to crash hard.
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  • Reply 55 of 59
    Quote:

    Also, why are they still using latches and not the magnetic mechanism the Mac Book uses?



    To be honest I love the latches. it holds the laptop firm and close. I brought a cheap laptop from Compaq and when you close the laptop it bends open a little. (it doesn’t have the latches)



    Also with the magnetic clips on the Mac book, they slowly break the frame on the laptop creating the plastic where you rest your hand, crack and be able to peel off. (My friend owns one and it’s slowly falling apart)



    Another one of my friends owns a dell; the latches are ugly as hell. (Rhyming intended)

    They stick out 0.5 to 1 cm and are thick.

    The Mac book pro has tiny little latches that fold away when the laptop screen is open looks neat and as I said above the laptop securely closed.
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  • Reply 56 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Name101 View Post


    To be honest I love the latches. it holds the laptop firm and close. I brought a cheap laptop from Compaq and when you close the laptop it bends open a little. (it doesn?t have the latches)



    As we all know, the level of Apple detail execution can't be compared with other PC vendors. Compaqs might bend a little, that's their problem.



    Quote:

    Also with the magnetic clips on the Mac book, they slowly break the frame on the laptop creating the plastic where you rest your hand, crack and be able to peel off. (My friend owns one and it?s slowly falling apart)



    I don't know of or haven't heard of any problems with MacBook magnetic latch mechanism. I would think Apple would've known this before releasing a product. If that's the case, then it sucks. Can you provide pictures?



    Quote:

    Another one of my friends owns a dell; the latches are ugly as hell. (Rhyming intended)

    They stick out 0.5 to 1 cm and are thick.

    The Mac book pro has tiny little latches that fold away when the laptop screen is open looks neat and as I said above the laptop securely closed.



    The problem with latches Apple's way is that - while "pretty" and tucked away - they're over-engineered. Meaning that they malfunction and break, leaving you with no way to shut your Mac. I have a late-generation iBook with only one latch the same way the MBP has them - and it's beginning to not catch the more I open and close it.
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  • Reply 57 of 59
    I know this is not strictly Future hardware but I suppose this could be a request?



    1: Dells Latches they are bulky and massive and need to be smaller.

    2: this is (As mentioned above) The cracking case of the macbook. because of the camera I was using it did not have the quality that I wanted, this crack is extending all the way around the edge of the laptop were the soft plastic is screwed onto the hard plastic. and you can literally pull this plastic up and see the internals of the laptop which is a huge turn off IMHO.

    3: this is the top right of the MacBook above the screen. there is a little bump, yes it looks nice but this is also the cause of the cracking plastic putting uneeded pressure on those two points.

    4: this is another angle of 2, clearly not a good look.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alexluft


    The problem with latches Apple's way is that - while "pretty" and tucked away - they're over-engineered. Meaning that they malfunction and break, leaving you with no way to shut your Mac. I have a late-generation iBook with only one latch the same way the MBP has them - and it's beginning to not catch the more I open and close it.



    The iBook is 12+ months old *I think* so it sounds like it has been used alot. I dont know too much about the latch i did personally like the design of the latch. but if it has these problems is this another reason to stear away from a mac? My friend which owns the laptop that I took pictures of. his laptop is only 6-8 months old. I can't say its had an easy life it comes to high school at a daily basis. but a laptop should be somewhat druable.



    I personally dont want to take 5 seconds closing the lid of a laptop every time I need to shut it to make sure the latches are all down properly? im not saying im going to slam it. I may close it firmly at the end of class then hurry off to the next class.



    Is it better to go totally Alumnimum? then the case will be druable?

    hearing all these keyboard problems with leapard is not great. but then again since im using Vista i could tell you my biggest problem right now is I have lost my "recycle bin" aka Trash for mac users.



    right now im tossing and turning between a PC and Mac.

    they both have there ups and downs.

    when the new MBP comes out ill have enough money at that time then ill decide.

    Vista. or Mac.

    I think im sick, to even consider this.



    ~Regards

    Name101
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  • Reply 58 of 59
    kareliakarelia Posts: 525member
    It's not the little bump causing the splintering, and that splintering is pretty rare. However, that area of the top case is comprised of VERY thin polycarbonate, and too much pressure can damage it. But I'm fairly certain that the magnetic latch can't cause the kind of pressure needed to break that lip. If it is that bump that's causing it, it's likely because the machine is getting slammed closed too hard. You really shouldn't be applying the closing force yourself, only the force to get it to that point. Once you've got it in the magnet's range, let the magnet take over.
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  • Reply 59 of 59
    Quote:

    Once you've got it in the magnet's range, let the magnet take over.



    I understand that.

    but my personal issue was to have the "Bumps" removed. a flat surface would still work and look nice but removes the "possibility" of damage
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