If the next gen iMac don't do something about their screens, I won't be buying one soon. They need to 1, give photographers and other graphics people a choice of glossy or matte, because many of us hate the glossy screens, but that can be lived with, if Apple must drive their product by form over function.
What is unacceptable is that the current 24 screens tend to be a good f-stop of difference in brightness from one side to the other, and the 20" screens are not even 8 bit, but are 6 bit and tend to be washed out at the bottom and fairly useless for hardware calibration and color accuracy. The 24" will calibrate fine except for the brightness unevenness. This is a big step down from the white imacs. I'm willing to pay a hundred or 2 more to have a top flight screen like they used to have in the Intel iMacs. Just my opinion.
I think overall, this Macworld will be quite disappointing. The chip speeds are the same so the benefit I guess should be lower power consumption and less heat but to have no performance improvement would be disappointing.
Where did you get the idea that there would be no performance increase?
Quote:
I'd actually just buy the older model. Maybe if the prices are cheaper, it will allow Apple to use the faster chips.
If Apples sales are as hot as they appear t be there might not be any older models to be had. At elast new ones.
Quote:
Oh yeah, AI I think you forgot to mention the Mac Mini update (again). Very silly. Everybody knows it's going to happen as they will not leave the lowest end empty. It just needs Santa Rosa and some HD space bump. Either that or a new model will take its place.
I suspect a new model using Penryn. There are just to many short comings with the current model. With all the new chip technologies available Apple could really up the attractiveness of its low end model.
Quote:
I wonder given that the Mini is £400 and the Macbook is £600, is there a Penryn chip that would allow them to make a Macbook cheap enough to replace the Mini?
What????? The MacBook is a portable the Mini is a desktop. like it or not there s a big market for desktops. Further many don't buy into he stupidity of using a laptop as a desktop replacement. Most laptops aren't even a good replacement for the Mini.
In any event I'd really like to see Apple lower the price of the Mini and at the same time up the feature count. Silly things like ad an FM radio receiver. Something that isn't hard to do considering the likes of TI have FM chips built into some of their other RF chips. Maybe go a step further and add a digital TV receiver. One hell of a lot of stuff could go into the next Mini Box and have people clamoring to get it. The Mini replacement just needs to put the concept of Consumer back into the PC space.
While I don't recommend buying Apple hardware at this time of the year, bu in this case you might be OK.
Quote:
If new Penryns in the iMac, as suggested by this article, were guaranteed for January, I would wait. But I have a feeling we won't see that, so I may buy one this week anyway.
Part of the reason I suspect your might be OK is that Apple is likely to put the Penryn Mobile chips in the pro laptops first. Since this is a completely new product/process/production ramp for Intel Apple won't want to have all their eggs in one basket so to speak. I suspect however that the flip to Penryn in the iMacs will be quick.
Quote:
I think they will update the Macbook Pro and Mac Pro only in January, as both products are due for a refresh.
It is not a question of being due for a refresh but rather that Intel has compelling hardware for these machines and Apple needs to keep leadership here. The MacBook Pros could get more than a simple refresh too.
Quote:
The iMacs were only out in August, so I bet Apple will use March/April time to refresh them. This would leave the summer for a Macbook refresh.
Sounds about right but both devices might get bumps come January.
Quote:
I dunno, I guess I just can't see Apple refreshing 3 product lines at once, if only for reasons to spread out the PR and meet regular announcement expectations, as they have done in the past.
It all depends on your perspective and the rumors of big Mac happenings at MWSF. I actually suspect that everything Mac related will get touched a bit. The bigger question is the consumer line up, that is the iPod/Iphones/ and other devices. I'm really hoping for new products for this sector also.
Quote:
I could be wrong. Thoughts?
I kinda suspect that you are right but frankly it is to close to MWSF to go out and buy Apple hardware if you don't need it right now. The big issue and frankly a big unknown is how many new products will debut at MWSF. I'm not talking bumps or refreshes but entirely new products.
The potential new products include the Ultra Notebook and a tablet or two that are rumored. Plus the replacement for the Mini. Apple could focus a lot of energy on these and as you indicated roll out many of the bumps and updates at later dates.
I thought part of the point of penryn was to get lower power using chips to increase battery life for the laptops. Why then are each of the MBP replacements all 35W TDP, which is the same as the current chips?
Makes one wonder doesn't it? Now that being said I do believe the processors do support power savings better. The other thing to consider is maximum power and minimal power. That is what does the processor draw in reduced operation states and what does it draw when at maximum load.
In any event I'm with you on this one I'd rather see a drop in power usage by say ten watts just so we can get longer run times. We may also be missing one important feature here and that is the additional features of the chip set. Penryn gets a lot of new stuff and that will make a huge difference in many apps.
Quote:
I understand they are higher clocked, but the whole Hi-k thing was supposed to solve world hunger and bring peace on earth, so I'm surprised at the same TDP.
Actually I suspect that Intel hit 35 Watts on purpose. That is this is a common power point for portable processors so they adjusted the design (cache) until they hit the power requirements. More interesting would be the average power usage at a lower clock rate. Say a 10 to 15% drop in clock rate, how does that impact power usage?
In any event maybe this HyDK crap is all a bunch of lies. On the other hand it may very well of made 45nm possible where traditional silicon processes craped out.
Where did you get the idea that there would be no performance increase?
Same clock speeds and the articles I came across mainly suggested lower power consumption as an advantage. The new maths improvements are significant though and SSE4 looks like it will have a lot of impact if Apple are making a big fuss about it for the 10.5.2 update.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I suspect a new model using Penryn. There are just to many short comings with the current model. With all the new chip technologies available Apple could really up the attractiveness of its low end model.
Yes I agree. It would look very suspicious if they didn't use Penryn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
What????? The MacBook is a portable the Mini is a desktop. like it or not there s a big market for desktops. Further many don't buy into he stupidity of using a laptop as a desktop replacement. Most laptops aren't even a good replacement for the Mini.
I know but assuming the rumors are to be believed that the Mini is going, that's the only way I could see it being justified. ATM, the Macbook is still better than the Mini and not much more expensive so the only way I could see the Mini disappearing is if the Macbook takes its place. Something has to.
Obviously I'd prefer a proper desktop to take its place but Apple seem to want to force the laptop thing so I can see it being a reality. The Mini is also practically a laptop as it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
In any event I'd really like to see Apple lower the price of the Mini and at the same time up the feature count. Silly things like ad an FM radio receiver. Something that isn't hard to do considering the likes of TI have FM chips built into some of their other RF chips. Maybe go a step further and add a digital TV receiver. One hell of a lot of stuff could go into the next Mini Box and have people clamoring to get it. The Mini replacement just needs to put the concept of Consumer back into the PC space.
If they made the computer most of us want, they could have a whole range of BTO options like TV tuners and things and partner with companies that offer these add-ons so they get kick-backs from the sale.
If new Penryns in the iMac, as suggested by this article, were guaranteed for January, I would wait. But I have a feeling we won't see that, so I may buy one this week anyway. I think they will update the Macbook Pro and Mac Pro only in January, as both products are due for a refresh. The iMacs were only out in August, so I bet Apple will use March/April time to refresh them. This would leave the summer for a Macbook refresh.
I dunno, I guess I just can't see Apple refreshing 3 product lines at once, if only for reasons to spread out the PR and meet regular announcement expectations, as they have done in the past.
I could be wrong. Thoughts?
New iMac should be announced at MWSF, but ships in a few weeks type deal. Not sure details of what's changed besides Penryn. Sorry the details are lacking but info is reliable.
New iMac should be announced at MWSF, but ships in a few weeks type deal. Not sure details of what's changed besides Penryn. Sorry the details are lacking but info is reliable.
In addition to Penryn, hope they offer a choice of LCD screens for those that need them.
Comments
If the next gen iMac don't do something about their screens, I won't be buying one soon. They need to 1, give photographers and other graphics people a choice of glossy or matte, because many of us hate the glossy screens, but that can be lived with, if Apple must drive their product by form over function.
What is unacceptable is that the current 24 screens tend to be a good f-stop of difference in brightness from one side to the other, and the 20" screens are not even 8 bit, but are 6 bit and tend to be washed out at the bottom and fairly useless for hardware calibration and color accuracy. The 24" will calibrate fine except for the brightness unevenness. This is a big step down from the white imacs. I'm willing to pay a hundred or 2 more to have a top flight screen like they used to have in the Intel iMacs. Just my opinion.
Good observation. Good points too.
I think overall, this Macworld will be quite disappointing. The chip speeds are the same so the benefit I guess should be lower power consumption and less heat but to have no performance improvement would be disappointing.
Where did you get the idea that there would be no performance increase?
I'd actually just buy the older model. Maybe if the prices are cheaper, it will allow Apple to use the faster chips.
If Apples sales are as hot as they appear t be there might not be any older models to be had. At elast new ones.
Oh yeah, AI I think you forgot to mention the Mac Mini update (again). Very silly. Everybody knows it's going to happen as they will not leave the lowest end empty. It just needs Santa Rosa and some HD space bump. Either that or a new model will take its place.
I suspect a new model using Penryn. There are just to many short comings with the current model. With all the new chip technologies available Apple could really up the attractiveness of its low end model.
I wonder given that the Mini is £400 and the Macbook is £600, is there a Penryn chip that would allow them to make a Macbook cheap enough to replace the Mini?
What????? The MacBook is a portable the Mini is a desktop. like it or not there s a big market for desktops. Further many don't buy into he stupidity of using a laptop as a desktop replacement. Most laptops aren't even a good replacement for the Mini.
In any event I'd really like to see Apple lower the price of the Mini and at the same time up the feature count. Silly things like ad an FM radio receiver. Something that isn't hard to do considering the likes of TI have FM chips built into some of their other RF chips. Maybe go a step further and add a digital TV receiver. One hell of a lot of stuff could go into the next Mini Box and have people clamoring to get it. The Mini replacement just needs to put the concept of Consumer back into the PC space.
Dave
Dang my plan was to buy an iMac this friday...
While I don't recommend buying Apple hardware at this time of the year, bu in this case you might be OK.
If new Penryns in the iMac, as suggested by this article, were guaranteed for January, I would wait. But I have a feeling we won't see that, so I may buy one this week anyway.
Part of the reason I suspect your might be OK is that Apple is likely to put the Penryn Mobile chips in the pro laptops first. Since this is a completely new product/process/production ramp for Intel Apple won't want to have all their eggs in one basket so to speak. I suspect however that the flip to Penryn in the iMacs will be quick.
I think they will update the Macbook Pro and Mac Pro only in January, as both products are due for a refresh.
It is not a question of being due for a refresh but rather that Intel has compelling hardware for these machines and Apple needs to keep leadership here. The MacBook Pros could get more than a simple refresh too.
The iMacs were only out in August, so I bet Apple will use March/April time to refresh them. This would leave the summer for a Macbook refresh.
Sounds about right but both devices might get bumps come January.
I dunno, I guess I just can't see Apple refreshing 3 product lines at once, if only for reasons to spread out the PR and meet regular announcement expectations, as they have done in the past.
It all depends on your perspective and the rumors of big Mac happenings at MWSF. I actually suspect that everything Mac related will get touched a bit. The bigger question is the consumer line up, that is the iPod/Iphones/ and other devices. I'm really hoping for new products for this sector also.
I could be wrong. Thoughts?
I kinda suspect that you are right but frankly it is to close to MWSF to go out and buy Apple hardware if you don't need it right now. The big issue and frankly a big unknown is how many new products will debut at MWSF. I'm not talking bumps or refreshes but entirely new products.
The potential new products include the Ultra Notebook and a tablet or two that are rumored. Plus the replacement for the Mini. Apple could focus a lot of energy on these and as you indicated roll out many of the bumps and updates at later dates.
Dave
I thought part of the point of penryn was to get lower power using chips to increase battery life for the laptops. Why then are each of the MBP replacements all 35W TDP, which is the same as the current chips?
Makes one wonder doesn't it? Now that being said I do believe the processors do support power savings better. The other thing to consider is maximum power and minimal power. That is what does the processor draw in reduced operation states and what does it draw when at maximum load.
In any event I'm with you on this one I'd rather see a drop in power usage by say ten watts just so we can get longer run times. We may also be missing one important feature here and that is the additional features of the chip set. Penryn gets a lot of new stuff and that will make a huge difference in many apps.
I understand they are higher clocked, but the whole Hi-k thing was supposed to solve world hunger and bring peace on earth, so I'm surprised at the same TDP.
Actually I suspect that Intel hit 35 Watts on purpose. That is this is a common power point for portable processors so they adjusted the design (cache) until they hit the power requirements. More interesting would be the average power usage at a lower clock rate. Say a 10 to 15% drop in clock rate, how does that impact power usage?
In any event maybe this HyDK crap is all a bunch of lies. On the other hand it may very well of made 45nm possible where traditional silicon processes craped out.
Dave
Where did you get the idea that there would be no performance increase?
Same clock speeds and the articles I came across mainly suggested lower power consumption as an advantage. The new maths improvements are significant though and SSE4 looks like it will have a lot of impact if Apple are making a big fuss about it for the 10.5.2 update.
I suspect a new model using Penryn. There are just to many short comings with the current model. With all the new chip technologies available Apple could really up the attractiveness of its low end model.
Yes I agree. It would look very suspicious if they didn't use Penryn.
What????? The MacBook is a portable the Mini is a desktop. like it or not there s a big market for desktops. Further many don't buy into he stupidity of using a laptop as a desktop replacement. Most laptops aren't even a good replacement for the Mini.
I know but assuming the rumors are to be believed that the Mini is going, that's the only way I could see it being justified. ATM, the Macbook is still better than the Mini and not much more expensive so the only way I could see the Mini disappearing is if the Macbook takes its place. Something has to.
Obviously I'd prefer a proper desktop to take its place but Apple seem to want to force the laptop thing so I can see it being a reality. The Mini is also practically a laptop as it is.
In any event I'd really like to see Apple lower the price of the Mini and at the same time up the feature count. Silly things like ad an FM radio receiver. Something that isn't hard to do considering the likes of TI have FM chips built into some of their other RF chips. Maybe go a step further and add a digital TV receiver. One hell of a lot of stuff could go into the next Mini Box and have people clamoring to get it. The Mini replacement just needs to put the concept of Consumer back into the PC space.
If they made the computer most of us want, they could have a whole range of BTO options like TV tuners and things and partner with companies that offer these add-ons so they get kick-backs from the sale.
Dang my plan was to buy an iMac this friday...
If new Penryns in the iMac, as suggested by this article, were guaranteed for January, I would wait. But I have a feeling we won't see that, so I may buy one this week anyway. I think they will update the Macbook Pro and Mac Pro only in January, as both products are due for a refresh. The iMacs were only out in August, so I bet Apple will use March/April time to refresh them. This would leave the summer for a Macbook refresh.
I dunno, I guess I just can't see Apple refreshing 3 product lines at once, if only for reasons to spread out the PR and meet regular announcement expectations, as they have done in the past.
I could be wrong. Thoughts?
New iMac should be announced at MWSF, but ships in a few weeks type deal. Not sure details of what's changed besides Penryn. Sorry the details are lacking but info is reliable.
New iMac should be announced at MWSF, but ships in a few weeks type deal. Not sure details of what's changed besides Penryn. Sorry the details are lacking but info is reliable.
In addition to Penryn, hope they offer a choice of LCD screens for those that need them.
In addition to Penryn, hope they offer a choice of LCD screens for those that need them.
... without glare.
... without glare.
Opps, I guess I should have clarified, thank you.
Odds for new iMacs and MBPs looking better IMO.