If this is a notebook with a physical keyboard, and clamshell design, I don't think .5" is possible yet. .75" is possible, if no optical drive is used.
I just can't believe that there is a market for optical-less (sub-) notebooks.
I just won't believe. Apple proves me wrong anyway, I guess.
One question springs into my mind immediately . How the heck they gonna distribute
their very own software? On USB sticks? Online only? Please enlighten me.
Carrying a second device (ext. optical) around you is plain silly. IMHO.
(Maybe this is just me)
What Fishyesque said.
Also, look at what businesses are giving their employees. It's nearly always a diskless system from Lenovo or HP or Dell. The reason is simple. Such computers are not for burning music CDs, and they're not for watching DVDs. The user is also not supposed to install stuff by himself (although nearly everyone has music, movies and non-sanctioned programs).
These computers are supposed to be centrally maintained by the IT department, and they can have a few external drive. no optical means one less thing to break, less weight, less price - a good thing all over.
It's true that Apple has never been good at selling to businesses, so it's possible that they won't make a machine like that, because it's not their target market.
With all due respect though, it's not for 'most users'. Ultraportables just aren't for 'most users'. If 'Most users' need a 13" screen then there's a MacBook already for them.
So perhaps they can called it the MacBook Econoline or MacBook 'Al Gore Edition'.
Well they clearly analyzed the potential market for the device in various configurations. They naturally could be wrong, but they did not use this willy nilly. The 13inch screen offers them a way to get people to move up from the macbook line for someone that doesn't want a 15inch MBP as well as get people that will pay a premium for portability. I plan to use this as a primary computer, but will leave the exernal optical drive at home. I have a portable DVD burner at work and could always use that as well, but strain to remember the last time I used my optical drive.
I'd fit in that category and will be one of the first buyers. This configuration simply has no downside for me.
Cute on Al Gore. But on a laptop, power consumption really does get tied into weight and portability in a myriad of ways. Battery size relates to peak output as well as total power available. So a computer with no optical or hard drive can have a smaller battery - both because it uses less power overall and so a small battery has enough juice but also because there are no periods where it draws an unusual amount of power (times when processor, HDD and optical drive are in use at the same time).
Also, look at the power converter your MB or MBP comes with. Cut the power in half and you can cut the size and weight of that in half as well. That can be half a pound right there (especially with makers like Dell that just really just don't give a darn about design or their users and so sell 2.5 lb laptops with 1lb plus giant brick converters).
We have had laptops with external drives in PCs for over 7 years. This is not new or uncommon. Need to restore the system. just plug in the external drive.
On the road, well you'll have to borrow an external disk drive. But I mean who has their system disks on the road in any case. Let's be honest and realistic. Do you REALLY think the average laptop user is in a hotel in Mumbia, India has their laptop die and they have brought their apple or MS install CD with them? So either way, you are going to have to go to a local computer guy.
We have had laptops with external drives in PCs for over 7 years. This is not new or uncommon. Need to restore the system. just plug in the external drive.
On the road, well you'll have to borrow an external disk drive. But I mean who has their system disks on the road in any case. Let's be honest and realistic. Do you REALLY think the average laptop user is in a hotel in Mumbia, India has their laptop die and they have brought their apple or MS install CD with them? So either way, you are going to have to go to a local computer guy.
Actually thats the first thing I bring along with my laptop. A CD wallet of install discs for applications and system discs. I just came from Asia to Canada and have my wallet with me with those discs as well as personal data backup discs from the last few months.
But if the new laptop is 11" or less I will buy it and maybe a new .mac account to go with it. "13 and it's a waste of time even if it's 50% thinner.
I had my Macbook in my laptop backback from Apple on this last trip and to be honest it felt like it weighed 15lbs. I think all laptops are still way to heavy to be considered convenient and an easy travel buddy.
But if the new laptop is 11" or less I will buy it and maybe a new .mac account to go with it. "13 and it's a waste of time even if it's 50% thinner.
I had my Macbook in my laptop backback from Apple on this last trip and to be honest it felt like it weighed 15lbs. I think all laptops are still way to heavy to be considered convenient and an easy travel buddy.
Here's a 3D mockup I made that sort of shows what some of the rumors are pointing to:
I imagine a glass multitouch pad in place of a trackpad and no mouse button. Very thin base and bezel, no hard drive, no optical drive, and a 64GB SSD. Shows with 13.3" widescreen display.
Actually thats the first thing I bring along with my laptop. A CD wallet of install discs for applications and system discs. I just came from Asia to Canada and have my wallet with me with those discs as well as personal data backup discs from the last few months.
But if the new laptop is 11" or less I will buy it and maybe a new .mac account to go with it. "13 and it's a waste of time even if it's 50% thinner.
I had my Macbook in my laptop backback from Apple on this last trip and to be honest it felt like it weighed 15lbs. I think all laptops are still way to heavy to be considered convenient and an easy travel buddy.
Two points. 1. You are exceptional in that regard. I am quite certain that few people bring backups. And if you are going to a different continent for an extended period, naturally you'd be bringing an external drive in any case (mooting the whole objection to the external drive).
2. Hey, this will bring it from 15 to 5lbs. So there you go...
I've used the internal optical drive of my MacBook once: to install Leopard. For everything else, I use an external LaCie drive. It's faster in every way. If Apple does release a 'Book without an internal drive, I would seriously take a look at one to replace my MacBook
Battery power, weight, it's all affected by the optical drive. This won't be people's main computer, for the most part. People travel a lot. They can have the external drive at their hotel or wherever they're staying. Usually people are at home when they need to install something. It's not that hard to imagine. I'm all for it.
On the road, on the train commuting, in the coffee shop, I'm not using my internal drive. Sure, at home sometimes I play a DVD (not often). Occasionally I burn a disc, but mostly I do that fro my work or home tower.
Mostly, on the go, I surf the net, check the e-mail, do the finances online or in Quicken, run a little Photoshop and I play an ungodly amount of chess online or with Fritz or ChessBase (all Windows programs).
This is exactly why I need a tiny very portable Intel Mac subnotebook... for travel and on-the-go computing.
I'm still putting money on bundled external optical drive. Apple just won't screw you over and force you to buy a still needed necessity. Maybe in ten years or less optical drives and system restores will be a thing of the past. For all we know, Apple may ditch the drive only they had a restore partition hiding on the internal drive, but this is unlikely. But Apple always pulls a rabbit out of the Steve hat. Has anyone ever considered that new wireless USB draft that was thrown out there recently: http://www.usb.org/developers/wusb/
The OD would be an option on the BTO page, so nobody would be "forced" to buy it. As it is now, I was forced to pay extra for something I don't use.
As a power user who needs a truly portable machine, I can honestly say from experience that the OD is a waste of space and money. I rarely use the OD on my current portable; I have never truly needed it. The savings in space and weight that removing the drive would achieve would make my current machine more portable and more likely to be carried wherever I go. I once thought it would bed nice if they could remove the OD and make the power brick fit inside that space so as to use less overall space; new batteries and LEDs and flash disks eliminate that need.
Maybe new Mac portables will replace the optical drive with something we have used for years in other devices, memory card slots. A starter card could come with the machine and contain the OSX system and diagnostic software. With a special keyboard combination the system could boot from that memory card and such a card would be difficult to lose since it could remain installed in its slot.
4GB SDHC cards like those used in new HD video cameras now have a street price of less than $60 so including one of these would be cheaper than a typical OEM optical drive.
As to future system software, it could be downloaded as a dmg file just like we do now with most new software. The download would be large, however, much like the size of iTunes Movie files.
You might be on to something. A dedicated slot for the OS boot disk. Last year at MWSF, Steve sorta suggested the demise of the DVD (an optical disc for the uninitiated) was near.
Those are the most Gawd Awful finger combinations imaginable. If that represents the future, then let it pass. Surely they will work off of one and two finger gestures...
How many gestures do you think you can get out of one or two fingers? It is so easy to criticize from a position of ignorance. I have an iGesture tablet right here next to my Mac. Been using it for years. So unlike you, I actually know the limitations of the technology. Two fingers don't give you much of anything. The technology can't distinguish between which two fingers you're using other than by their spacing, so you can't use all the permutations of two-finger combinations. Index+middle finger is indistinguishable from middle+ring finger. What's the alternative? Apple's Ink? Yeah, remembering all those gestures is so much easier. The iPhone uses only two fingers maximum only because it doesn't have much working area and doesn't need the full command set of a computer. You sound like one of those PC users who are always criticizing Macs even though they've never actually laid hands on one and swear they never will.
Battery power, weight, it's all affected by the optical drive. This won't be people's main computer, for the most part. People travel a lot. They can have the external drive at their hotel or wherever they're staying. Usually people are at home when they need to install something. It's not that hard to imagine. I'm all for it.
Well, I don't have difficulties to imagine. Well, when I am on the go I just have that
certain fondness to rent a DVD. So, I think I just don't belong to Apples Subnotbook
target. I can live with that.
Quote:
What Fishyesque said.
Also, look at what businesses are giving their employees. It's nearly always a diskless system from Lenovo or HP or Dell. The reason is simple. Such computers are not for burning music CDs, and they're not for watching DVDs. The user is also not supposed to install stuff by himself (although nearly everyone has music, movies and non-sanctioned programs).
These computers are supposed to be centrally maintained by the IT department, and they can have a few external drive. no optical means one less thing to break, less weight, less price - a good thing all over.
...
Enterprice market, ... well, another example where the subnotebook makes
I just can't believe that there is a market for optical-less (sub-) notebooks.
There is, but independently of what people here and elsewhere say, this is not the home users market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Barbara
One question springs into my mind immediately . How the heck they gonna distribute
their very own software? On USB sticks? Online only? Please enlighten me.
In a home and some professional, I dare say, settings it would be something between a nightmare and the impossible. For now at least. Institutions and enterprises are completely different animals though. They have the IT department that takes care of everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Barbara
Carrying a second device (ext. optical) around you is plain silly. IMHO.
Probably not so silly, but certainly a burden. My wife had to buy last year a vey light notebook (Dell or HP, I don't remember) for work. She could have a model with docking station and no optical drive. They also have an IT departement. But for convenience she chose one at 12" with DVD drive and it is around 3 pounds, probably a little more. Pretty good actually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Barbara
(Maybe this is just me)
I am confident that by now you are convinced that it is not just you.
Comments
If this is a notebook with a physical keyboard, and clamshell design, I don't think .5" is possible yet. .75" is possible, if no optical drive is used.
Dunno. I think .60. But a good question.
I just can't believe that there is a market for optical-less (sub-) notebooks.
I just won't believe. Apple proves me wrong anyway, I guess.
One question springs into my mind immediately . How the heck they gonna distribute
their very own software? On USB sticks? Online only? Please enlighten me.
Carrying a second device (ext. optical) around you is plain silly. IMHO.
(Maybe this is just me)
What Fishyesque said.
Also, look at what businesses are giving their employees. It's nearly always a diskless system from Lenovo or HP or Dell. The reason is simple. Such computers are not for burning music CDs, and they're not for watching DVDs. The user is also not supposed to install stuff by himself (although nearly everyone has music, movies and non-sanctioned programs).
These computers are supposed to be centrally maintained by the IT department, and they can have a few external drive. no optical means one less thing to break, less weight, less price - a good thing all over.
It's true that Apple has never been good at selling to businesses, so it's possible that they won't make a machine like that, because it's not their target market.
With all due respect though, it's not for 'most users'. Ultraportables just aren't for 'most users'. If 'Most users' need a 13" screen then there's a MacBook already for them.
So perhaps they can called it the MacBook Econoline or MacBook 'Al Gore Edition'.
Well they clearly analyzed the potential market for the device in various configurations. They naturally could be wrong, but they did not use this willy nilly. The 13inch screen offers them a way to get people to move up from the macbook line for someone that doesn't want a 15inch MBP as well as get people that will pay a premium for portability. I plan to use this as a primary computer, but will leave the exernal optical drive at home. I have a portable DVD burner at work and could always use that as well, but strain to remember the last time I used my optical drive.
I'd fit in that category and will be one of the first buyers. This configuration simply has no downside for me.
Cute on Al Gore. But on a laptop, power consumption really does get tied into weight and portability in a myriad of ways. Battery size relates to peak output as well as total power available. So a computer with no optical or hard drive can have a smaller battery - both because it uses less power overall and so a small battery has enough juice but also because there are no periods where it draws an unusual amount of power (times when processor, HDD and optical drive are in use at the same time).
Also, look at the power converter your MB or MBP comes with. Cut the power in half and you can cut the size and weight of that in half as well. That can be half a pound right there (especially with makers like Dell that just really just don't give a darn about design or their users and so sell 2.5 lb laptops with 1lb plus giant brick converters).
On the road, well you'll have to borrow an external disk drive. But I mean who has their system disks on the road in any case. Let's be honest and realistic. Do you REALLY think the average laptop user is in a hotel in Mumbia, India has their laptop die and they have brought their apple or MS install CD with them? So either way, you are going to have to go to a local computer guy.
We have had laptops with external drives in PCs for over 7 years. This is not new or uncommon. Need to restore the system. just plug in the external drive.
On the road, well you'll have to borrow an external disk drive. But I mean who has their system disks on the road in any case. Let's be honest and realistic. Do you REALLY think the average laptop user is in a hotel in Mumbia, India has their laptop die and they have brought their apple or MS install CD with them? So either way, you are going to have to go to a local computer guy.
Actually thats the first thing I bring along with my laptop. A CD wallet of install discs for applications and system discs. I just came from Asia to Canada and have my wallet with me with those discs as well as personal data backup discs from the last few months.
But if the new laptop is 11" or less I will buy it and maybe a new .mac account to go with it. "13 and it's a waste of time even if it's 50% thinner.
I had my Macbook in my laptop backback from Apple on this last trip and to be honest it felt like it weighed 15lbs. I think all laptops are still way to heavy to be considered convenient and an easy travel buddy.
But if the new laptop is 11" or less I will buy it and maybe a new .mac account to go with it. "13 and it's a waste of time even if it's 50% thinner.
I had my Macbook in my laptop backback from Apple on this last trip and to be honest it felt like it weighed 15lbs. I think all laptops are still way to heavy to be considered convenient and an easy travel buddy.
I 1,000,000% agree.
I imagine a glass multitouch pad in place of a trackpad and no mouse button. Very thin base and bezel, no hard drive, no optical drive, and a 64GB SSD. Shows with 13.3" widescreen display.
Actually thats the first thing I bring along with my laptop. A CD wallet of install discs for applications and system discs. I just came from Asia to Canada and have my wallet with me with those discs as well as personal data backup discs from the last few months.
But if the new laptop is 11" or less I will buy it and maybe a new .mac account to go with it. "13 and it's a waste of time even if it's 50% thinner.
I had my Macbook in my laptop backback from Apple on this last trip and to be honest it felt like it weighed 15lbs. I think all laptops are still way to heavy to be considered convenient and an easy travel buddy.
Two points. 1. You are exceptional in that regard. I am quite certain that few people bring backups. And if you are going to a different continent for an extended period, naturally you'd be bringing an external drive in any case (mooting the whole objection to the external drive).
2. Hey, this will bring it from 15 to 5lbs. So there you go...
It is just you. Well, you and a few others.
Battery power, weight, it's all affected by the optical drive. This won't be people's main computer, for the most part. People travel a lot. They can have the external drive at their hotel or wherever they're staying. Usually people are at home when they need to install something. It's not that hard to imagine. I'm all for it.
On the road, on the train commuting, in the coffee shop, I'm not using my internal drive. Sure, at home sometimes I play a DVD (not often). Occasionally I burn a disc, but mostly I do that fro my work or home tower.
Mostly, on the go, I surf the net, check the e-mail, do the finances online or in Quicken, run a little Photoshop and I play an ungodly amount of chess online or with Fritz or ChessBase (all Windows programs).
This is exactly why I need a tiny very portable Intel Mac subnotebook... for travel and on-the-go computing.
Can't freaking wait.
As a power user who needs a truly portable machine, I can honestly say from experience that the OD is a waste of space and money. I rarely use the OD on my current portable; I have never truly needed it. The savings in space and weight that removing the drive would achieve would make my current machine more portable and more likely to be carried wherever I go. I once thought it would bed nice if they could remove the OD and make the power brick fit inside that space so as to use less overall space; new batteries and LEDs and flash disks eliminate that need.
4GB SDHC cards like those used in new HD video cameras now have a street price of less than $60 so including one of these would be cheaper than a typical OEM optical drive.
As to future system software, it could be downloaded as a dmg file just like we do now with most new software. The download would be large, however, much like the size of iTunes Movie files.
You might be on to something. A dedicated slot for the OS boot disk. Last year at MWSF, Steve sorta suggested the demise of the DVD (an optical disc for the uninitiated) was near.
Ooooo! This was my 2,500th post!
Those are the most Gawd Awful finger combinations imaginable. If that represents the future, then let it pass. Surely they will work off of one and two finger gestures...
How many gestures do you think you can get out of one or two fingers? It is so easy to criticize from a position of ignorance. I have an iGesture tablet right here next to my Mac. Been using it for years. So unlike you, I actually know the limitations of the technology. Two fingers don't give you much of anything. The technology can't distinguish between which two fingers you're using other than by their spacing, so you can't use all the permutations of two-finger combinations. Index+middle finger is indistinguishable from middle+ring finger. What's the alternative? Apple's Ink? Yeah, remembering all those gestures is so much easier.
Japanese attack Pearl Harbor!
"Germans bombed Pearl Harbor" ! !
John 'Bluto' Blutarsky - Animal House
:-)
And there are over 30 different ones!
Titan
It is just you. Well, you and a few others.
Battery power, weight, it's all affected by the optical drive. This won't be people's main computer, for the most part. People travel a lot. They can have the external drive at their hotel or wherever they're staying. Usually people are at home when they need to install something. It's not that hard to imagine. I'm all for it.
Well, I don't have difficulties to imagine.
certain fondness to rent a DVD. So, I think I just don't belong to Apples Subnotbook
target. I can live with that.
What Fishyesque said.
Also, look at what businesses are giving their employees. It's nearly always a diskless system from Lenovo or HP or Dell. The reason is simple. Such computers are not for burning music CDs, and they're not for watching DVDs. The user is also not supposed to install stuff by himself (although nearly everyone has music, movies and non-sanctioned programs).
These computers are supposed to be centrally maintained by the IT department, and they can have a few external drive. no optical means one less thing to break, less weight, less price - a good thing all over.
...
Enterprice market, ... well, another example where the subnotebook makes
some sort of sense, right. Thanks for input.
best
I just can't believe that there is a market for optical-less (sub-) notebooks.
There is, but independently of what people here and elsewhere say, this is not the home users market.
One question springs into my mind immediately . How the heck they gonna distribute
their very own software? On USB sticks? Online only? Please enlighten me.
In a home and some professional, I dare say, settings it would be something between a nightmare and the impossible. For now at least. Institutions and enterprises are completely different animals though. They have the IT department that takes care of everything.
Carrying a second device (ext. optical) around you is plain silly. IMHO.
Probably not so silly, but certainly a burden. My wife had to buy last year a vey light notebook (Dell or HP, I don't remember) for work. She could have a model with docking station and no optical drive. They also have an IT departement. But for convenience she chose one at 12" with DVD drive and it is around 3 pounds, probably a little more. Pretty good actually.
(Maybe this is just me)
I am confident that by now you are convinced that it is not just you.