...So all the content on your Mac or PC can be watched, listened to our whatevered on your TV...
Then the aTV needs to really add to the type of video formats it can play. I have TONS of video that is playable on my iMac that is NOT playable through an aTV because it wasn't recorded in one of the limited formats that the aTV will play.
how about .avi?... TONS of cameras floating around out there that record video in that format.
how about .wmv?... sure it will require sending some $ to M$, but they are marketing the device to Windows users as well... and god knows there's more video floating around as .wmv than as .mov.
The changes necessary to the aTV are (IMO) simple and cheap... adding a DVD (or BD) drive and allowing it to play ALL of my video files would really make the thing WAY more useful.
Processing HD video takes alot of CPU or GPU power. I doubt the apple tv can do it. Even should I hack it and put in support for my files. I looked over the wiki and see no mention of playing files other than ripped DVD's. My files are mostly x264 in a MKV wrapper. I also need support for AC3 audio. And of course avi, divx, wmv, xvid, vc-1, etc.
A hacked ATV will do all this and more, You can run MPlayer on it, VLC, or as I use ATVFiles an excellent media player. It uses the same codecs you use on your mac so will support any format you want - don't forget the ATV OS is just a cut down version of OSX. It even supports 5.1 passthru on AC3 encoded audio., and will support 720p HD content.
All of my files are DivX with AC3 audio and they work great, mkv's work too. ATVFiles also suports xml's so in my Movies browser window I get cover art with a detailed info on all my movies etc..
If Apple listened to the amateur developers that are already making the ATV a fantastic little media server then the ATV would be a world beating product. The hack is so easy if you follow the instructions at Awkward TV.
People are using Elgato TV tuners on it already, external Hard Drives, network hard drives, Web Browsers, wireless keyboards & mice, plus all of these online TV channels such as Joost are starting to make an appearance now - the thing is growing so big now thanks to the hackers out there - Apple should see this as a sign of what people want the ATV to be.
Sony loses hundreds of dollars on the PS3. They make it up in software sales. Will Apple do the same thing? Don't count on it.
Sony is taking a loss on the PS3 because they bet the farm on Blu-ray. Why in the world would they not want to also take a loss selling Apple cheap Blu-ray drives to get them out there?
I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's not as absurd as it sounds. Also, who says Apple wouldn't offer an AppleTV and an AppleTV+ for more money?
Consolidation of devices (or cables, or remotes) provides simplicity. Simplicity = sexy. Apple loves sexy. Doesn't everybody?
3. Distributed movies for homes with multiple ATV.
4. Internet Browsing/ .Mac support
5. Lower Price
In typical fashion too many computer enthusiasts want to go upmarket (Add a Terabyte drive, add Blu-ray etc) but items become mass market and reach critical mass when you hit $199 and $99 price points.
I look for the next ATV major update to leverage the improved filesharing and video features of Leopard. I look for the next hardware refresh to be cheaper to manufacture yet more functional. Perhaps there's some truth to Apple utilizing Intel's Slilverthorne or Canmore technology.
I didn't figure the original ATV would sell like gangbusters. It's priced at the same price as a base Xbox 360. $299 is a tough pricepoint to sell electronics to the masses unless they get a lot of enjoyment from that device.
You gotta figure that consumers also realize they have to take the plunge into HDTV sooner or later. Also let's not forget that HD camcorders are HOT. If Apple's smart they'll somehow tie in iLife to the ATV making it drop dead easy to view or listen to your own content on the Big Screen.
1. That would help
2. Yawn unless coupled with 1.
3. Another yawn feature
4. That would help but is completely unless with the Apple Remote
5. That would help
At $299 or $399 the AppleTV already is upmarket. At those prices, as you stated, it's in the Xbox 360 and PS3 price ranges and those products vastly outclass the AppleTV in terms of features. And both have seen multiple updates during their lifetime as opposed to the AppleTV's paltry YouTube update.
As for the comment about price, Blu-Ray has beaten HD DVD despite the higher price point. On the Apple front, the iPod made it mainstream yet started out in the high price range. If the product is good, people will pay the price of admission. It should be clear to Apple that people aren't willing to pay for the meager abilities AppleTV currently offers.
Except for ego, I don't see what would prevent Apple from adding a DVD or Blu-Ray drive and DVR features at least as options if not part of the base model. Give customers what they want not what Apple thinks they need (too bad that seems to go against Apple's business philosophy).
Then write your congressman and get him to create and pass a Video Home Recording Act to explicitly allow the home copying of DVDs. Just like the Audio Home Recording Act permits the copying of CDs. This is a legal debate not a technical one.
You are only addressing one poiny of my comments.
No one has to write to a congressman to buy a TIVO.
You are missing the point. If Apple TV had a slot-load DVD drive, and iTunes had a decent collection of movies that would only mean I could also use it to play my DVD's, and I could download all my future content. The best of both worlds. If Apple doesn't look at Apple TV this way then they are missing the point too. Adding a slot just makes the device more useful, it doesn't undermine their business model at all. Nobody is going to download a movie they already own anyway.
How Apple will make people choose to download is by offering a better service, just like they did with music.
And by them adding a slot I can have one item under my TV, not two. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.
Apple only wants you to buy (and now rent) content from iTunes plain and simple. That is why there was not a disc drive in the first place. And that's why you can't stream DVD's to the ATV as well. Buy, Buy, Buy, Rent, Rent. Rent- High School Musical!
Funny how you can stream everything else to the ATV except a DVD.
Apple only wants you to buy (and now rent) content from iTunes plain and simple. That is why there was not a disc drive in the first place. And that's why you can't stream DVD's to the ATV as well. Buy, Buy, Buy, Rent, Rent. Rent- High School Musical!
Funny how you can stream everything else to the ATV except a DVD.
And that is why it will fail in the same way the iPod did not.
I use my iPod even at home where I have direct access to my entire CD collection for the sake of convenience, If the aTV is truly an iPod for my TV it needs to be able to do the same or, at the very least, offer a DVD drive so I can pop a DVD into it.
Buying a device, that doesn't allow much more than the *luxury* of purchasing content is a failure waiting to happen (see aTV rev. A). Regardless if you can use handbrake to rip DVDs and play them on this thing, Steve can't use that as a selling point since it's 3rd party and legally questionable.
If I want to rent, I have Netflix and it looks like they're lifting the cap on downloaded movies. So, for $14.99/mo I would have unlimited movies to my door as well as the downloaded ones. How does aTV compete with that?
The iTunes store isn't a success because Steve & co. have forced people to purchase content there. It's a success because he let people use their own content and allowed them to see the convenience and simplicity of buying music in a new way. Your logic here flies directly in the face of that.
This is a bit out of left field, but I posted this idea on my blog as part of my second look at MacWorld this year:
Apple ships a piece of software for Nintendo's Wii via the WiiWare (Wii Software in Europe) system. This will be FrontRow 2. Possibly branded as iTunes or AppleTWii or something cute like that.
I'll call it AppleTV for Wii here.
AppleTV for Wii will mirror AppleTV in features. However, instead of downloading your content, it will rely solely on streaming. So all the content on your Mac or PC can be watched, listened to our whatevered on your TV via Wii.
This is a big win for Apple as well as The Big N. Nintendo gets to monetise Mario and co on Apple's various platforms and, in exchange, gets software which essentially leapfrogs its Wii ahead of Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Sony's PS3 as a media entertainment hub. Which sucks for Microsoft and Sony since that's really their main defense against Nintendo's unstoppable onslaught with Wii.
Apple, meanwhile, gets to sell a slightly cut down version of Apple TV to less HD-oriented customers without having to build any hardware. All they do is charge a one-off software fee, say, 1200 Wii Points (If they even decide to charge) and the iTunes/AppleTV ecosystem becomes backwards compatible with non-HD TVs and draws in new customers to iTunes from those who have Wiis and want to watch movies on their TVs.
From what I understand the Wii does not have a HDMI interface and does not support even 720p resolution so I would not think that this is a possibility.
From what I understand the Wii does not have a HDMI interface and does not support even 720p resolution so I would not think that this is a possibility.
This is true. The Wii tops out at 480p (and only if you're using component cables).
From what I understand the Wii does not have a HDMI interface and does not support even 720p resolution so I would not think that this is a possibility.
Apple doesn't even provide any commercial content in 720p yet (maybe tomorrow) so there's no problem there. Even if they do, I think they'll have to provide seperate files anyway, I don't think the iPods can play 720p video.
I think the Wii itself shows that there's still some leg room left in SDTV.
Apple doesn't even provide any commercial content in 720p yet (maybe tomorrow) so there's no problem there. Even if they do, I think they'll have to provide seperate files anyway, I don't think the iPods can play 720p video.
I think the Wii itself shows that there's still some leg room left in SDTV.
The Wii's succcess is becouse of the controllers and the games that have been created that utilize the controllers not it's lack of HD rresolutions. Also one of the main complaints that people have about the AppleTV is the lack of HD content not the lack of out of the box connectivity to older non-HD sets.
Comments
...So all the content on your Mac or PC can be watched, listened to our whatevered on your TV...
Then the aTV needs to really add to the type of video formats it can play. I have TONS of video that is playable on my iMac that is NOT playable through an aTV because it wasn't recorded in one of the limited formats that the aTV will play.
how about .avi?... TONS of cameras floating around out there that record video in that format.
how about .wmv?... sure it will require sending some $ to M$, but they are marketing the device to Windows users as well... and god knows there's more video floating around as .wmv than as .mov.
The changes necessary to the aTV are (IMO) simple and cheap... adding a DVD (or BD) drive and allowing it to play ALL of my video files would really make the thing WAY more useful.
(crosses fingers 'till Tuesday.)
Processing HD video takes alot of CPU or GPU power. I doubt the apple tv can do it. Even should I hack it and put in support for my files. I looked over the wiki and see no mention of playing files other than ripped DVD's. My files are mostly x264 in a MKV wrapper. I also need support for AC3 audio. And of course avi, divx, wmv, xvid, vc-1, etc.
A hacked ATV will do all this and more, You can run MPlayer on it, VLC, or as I use ATVFiles an excellent media player. It uses the same codecs you use on your mac so will support any format you want - don't forget the ATV OS is just a cut down version of OSX. It even supports 5.1 passthru on AC3 encoded audio., and will support 720p HD content.
All of my files are DivX with AC3 audio and they work great, mkv's work too. ATVFiles also suports xml's so in my Movies browser window I get cover art with a detailed info on all my movies etc..
If Apple listened to the amateur developers that are already making the ATV a fantastic little media server then the ATV would be a world beating product. The hack is so easy if you follow the instructions at Awkward TV.
People are using Elgato TV tuners on it already, external Hard Drives, network hard drives, Web Browsers, wireless keyboards & mice, plus all of these online TV channels such as Joost are starting to make an appearance now - the thing is growing so big now thanks to the hackers out there - Apple should see this as a sign of what people want the ATV to be.
http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/ATVFiles
Sony loses hundreds of dollars on the PS3. They make it up in software sales. Will Apple do the same thing? Don't count on it.
Sony is taking a loss on the PS3 because they bet the farm on Blu-ray. Why in the world would they not want to also take a loss selling Apple cheap Blu-ray drives to get them out there?
I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's not as absurd as it sounds. Also, who says Apple wouldn't offer an AppleTV and an AppleTV+ for more money?
Consolidation of devices (or cables, or remotes) provides simplicity. Simplicity = sexy. Apple loves sexy. Doesn't everybody?
1. High Definition
2. Offer Rentals
3. Distributed movies for homes with multiple ATV.
4. Internet Browsing/ .Mac support
5. Lower Price
In typical fashion too many computer enthusiasts want to go upmarket (Add a Terabyte drive, add Blu-ray etc) but items become mass market and reach critical mass when you hit $199 and $99 price points.
I look for the next ATV major update to leverage the improved filesharing and video features of Leopard. I look for the next hardware refresh to be cheaper to manufacture yet more functional. Perhaps there's some truth to Apple utilizing Intel's Slilverthorne or Canmore technology.
I didn't figure the original ATV would sell like gangbusters. It's priced at the same price as a base Xbox 360. $299 is a tough pricepoint to sell electronics to the masses unless they get a lot of enjoyment from that device.
You gotta figure that consumers also realize they have to take the plunge into HDTV sooner or later. Also let's not forget that HD camcorders are HOT. If Apple's smart they'll somehow tie in iLife to the ATV making it drop dead easy to view or listen to your own content on the Big Screen.
1. That would help
2. Yawn unless coupled with 1.
3. Another yawn feature
4. That would help but is completely unless with the Apple Remote
5. That would help
At $299 or $399 the AppleTV already is upmarket. At those prices, as you stated, it's in the Xbox 360 and PS3 price ranges and those products vastly outclass the AppleTV in terms of features. And both have seen multiple updates during their lifetime as opposed to the AppleTV's paltry YouTube update.
As for the comment about price, Blu-Ray has beaten HD DVD despite the higher price point. On the Apple front, the iPod made it mainstream yet started out in the high price range. If the product is good, people will pay the price of admission. It should be clear to Apple that people aren't willing to pay for the meager abilities AppleTV currently offers.
Except for ego, I don't see what would prevent Apple from adding a DVD or Blu-Ray drive and DVR features at least as options if not part of the base model. Give customers what they want not what Apple thinks they need (too bad that seems to go against Apple's business philosophy).
Then write your congressman and get him to create and pass a Video Home Recording Act to explicitly allow the home copying of DVDs. Just like the Audio Home Recording Act permits the copying of CDs. This is a legal debate not a technical one.
You are only addressing one poiny of my comments.
No one has to write to a congressman to buy a TIVO.
You are missing the point. If Apple TV had a slot-load DVD drive, and iTunes had a decent collection of movies that would only mean I could also use it to play my DVD's, and I could download all my future content. The best of both worlds. If Apple doesn't look at Apple TV this way then they are missing the point too. Adding a slot just makes the device more useful, it doesn't undermine their business model at all. Nobody is going to download a movie they already own anyway.
How Apple will make people choose to download is by offering a better service, just like they did with music.
And by them adding a slot I can have one item under my TV, not two. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.
Apple only wants you to buy (and now rent) content from iTunes plain and simple. That is why there was not a disc drive in the first place. And that's why you can't stream DVD's to the ATV as well. Buy, Buy, Buy, Rent, Rent. Rent- High School Musical!
Funny how you can stream everything else to the ATV except a DVD.
Apple only wants you to buy (and now rent) content from iTunes plain and simple. That is why there was not a disc drive in the first place. And that's why you can't stream DVD's to the ATV as well. Buy, Buy, Buy, Rent, Rent. Rent- High School Musical!
Funny how you can stream everything else to the ATV except a DVD.
And that is why it will fail in the same way the iPod did not.
I use my iPod even at home where I have direct access to my entire CD collection for the sake of convenience, If the aTV is truly an iPod for my TV it needs to be able to do the same or, at the very least, offer a DVD drive so I can pop a DVD into it.
Buying a device, that doesn't allow much more than the *luxury* of purchasing content is a failure waiting to happen (see aTV rev. A). Regardless if you can use handbrake to rip DVDs and play them on this thing, Steve can't use that as a selling point since it's 3rd party and legally questionable.
If I want to rent, I have Netflix and it looks like they're lifting the cap on downloaded movies. So, for $14.99/mo I would have unlimited movies to my door as well as the downloaded ones. How does aTV compete with that?
The iTunes store isn't a success because Steve & co. have forced people to purchase content there. It's a success because he let people use their own content and allowed them to see the convenience and simplicity of buying music in a new way. Your logic here flies directly in the face of that.
This is a bit out of left field, but I posted this idea on my blog as part of my second look at MacWorld this year:
Apple ships a piece of software for Nintendo's Wii via the WiiWare (Wii Software in Europe) system. This will be FrontRow 2. Possibly branded as iTunes or AppleTWii or something cute like that.
I'll call it AppleTV for Wii here.
AppleTV for Wii will mirror AppleTV in features. However, instead of downloading your content, it will rely solely on streaming. So all the content on your Mac or PC can be watched, listened to our whatevered on your TV via Wii.
This is a big win for Apple as well as The Big N. Nintendo gets to monetise Mario and co on Apple's various platforms and, in exchange, gets software which essentially leapfrogs its Wii ahead of Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Sony's PS3 as a media entertainment hub. Which sucks for Microsoft and Sony since that's really their main defense against Nintendo's unstoppable onslaught with Wii.
Apple, meanwhile, gets to sell a slightly cut down version of Apple TV to less HD-oriented customers without having to build any hardware. All they do is charge a one-off software fee, say, 1200 Wii Points (If they even decide to charge) and the iTunes/AppleTV ecosystem becomes backwards compatible with non-HD TVs and draws in new customers to iTunes from those who have Wiis and want to watch movies on their TVs.
From what I understand the Wii does not have a HDMI interface and does not support even 720p resolution so I would not think that this is a possibility.
From what I understand the Wii does not have a HDMI interface and does not support even 720p resolution so I would not think that this is a possibility.
This is true. The Wii tops out at 480p (and only if you're using component cables).
From what I understand the Wii does not have a HDMI interface and does not support even 720p resolution so I would not think that this is a possibility.
Apple doesn't even provide any commercial content in 720p yet (maybe tomorrow) so there's no problem there. Even if they do, I think they'll have to provide seperate files anyway, I don't think the iPods can play 720p video.
I think the Wii itself shows that there's still some leg room left in SDTV.
Apple doesn't even provide any commercial content in 720p yet (maybe tomorrow) so there's no problem there. Even if they do, I think they'll have to provide seperate files anyway, I don't think the iPods can play 720p video.
I think the Wii itself shows that there's still some leg room left in SDTV.
The Wii's succcess is becouse of the controllers and the games that have been created that utilize the controllers not it's lack of HD rresolutions. Also one of the main complaints that people have about the AppleTV is the lack of HD content not the lack of out of the box connectivity to older non-HD sets.
Clever.
They may just do that when they get the subscription TV show model setup.
Of course, they'll also have to rename iTunes since it's become a digital entertainment shop, not just for music.
...iShmoo?
Well, what can/should Apple do to improve sales of the ATV?
Doesn't look like the current recipe works.
It needs to work independently of all other hardware. VCR & DVD owners are far greater in number in comparison to computer owners.
Of course, they'll also have to rename iTunes since it's become a digital entertainment shop, not just for music.
...iShmoo?
Ha!
They wont need to rename it though. The name has already become meaningless, that's a good thing.