I am both excited about this and about getting a Blueray player for 1080p. But I also agree with this comment:
"Kind of pissed they didn't add a high end model with a DVD slot. I would like an Apple TV, but the last thing I want is "another" device under the TV."
I just don't want more and more boxes down there, more and more remotes. I hate all that.
It's a neat concept, and those are good reasons for doing it, but 99.9% of people aren't willing to spend days on end ripping their collection, so doubling the size and cost of the Apple TV to include a disc drive would be a poor choice on Apple's part. Moreover, Apple could kiss their studio support goodbye if they provided a free means of bypassing DVD copyright protection, not to mention a hefty lawsuit. Besides, the Apple TV only has a 40 or 160GB hard drive ? with no means of adding more storage ? so it's not like there's anywhere to put the movies you can't rip anyhow. By the time Apple included a Blu-Ray drive, 1TB of storage, and everything else that's already in the Apple TV, you'd be talking about a niche product that's more expensive than most people in that niche are even willing to spend. They'd say, "why would I spend $xxxx on a set top box when I could buy a home theatre pc that does all that and more for $xxx?".
You don't have to change anything on the Apple TV apart from the software. Many people use Network Attached Storage (NAS) drives these days to store their DVD / Movie / Photos 'assets'. Software like 'MediaCentral' - very similar to Front Row; will let you open and play Video_TS folders from anywhere on your home network. It will only play unprotected video. So if the Apple TV could play Video_TS folders then I imagine a lot more people would be interested in the device.
Sadly, AppleTV has become basically an empty digital jukebox whose sole purpose is to give money continually to Apple via iTunes. It could have been so much more. But unfortunately there is no browser, no streaming DVD's from your computer, no taping of on-air programming, ripping my own DVD's, and on and on. I know it's those damn greedy movie studios and the government again that are forcing me to spend money on iTunes. Oh well- it could have been a video revolution.
And another thing, I want to control the AppleTV with my iPhone, it sure would make a better controller, say tranfering the menu to the AppleTV app on iPhone and can order and schedule events on the AppleTV from anywhere in home or the office. I want my email viewable via Apple TV, again for office or home.
Honestly, if you want to watch your DVDs, use your freakin' DVD player. It takes 1-2 hours to rip a DVD, and probably longer if it was done via the Apple TV's paltry little processor; it takes 30 seconds to pull a DVD from your shelf and put it in your DVD player. Whatever time you save by having all of your films listed digitally is negated by the hundreds of hours you'd spend to get them there.
Once again, my computer has a DVD drive. I buy and add an AppleTV to my entertainment system. All I ask is: Let me stream my DVDs to it and get rid of my DVD player. That is a totally reasonable request and simple to comprehend.
What's the difference how, where, or to whom you pay?
In the end, you pay. That's all that matters.
The only around it is to steal content. You're not suggesting that, so what's the problem?
The problem is that you shouldn't have to keep paying to play! All the upgrade does is keep putting neverending money in Apple's and the studio's pockets. If you already own your digital content (DVDs) you still don't have any new options except to use Handbrake! Who's talking about stealing? You should be able to stream you own DVDs from your computer at the very least , which would eliminate the DVD player from your system. HOw many boxes do you need? And I reall don't understand why you cannot rip your DVDs right in iTunes- you're not copying them in the exact same format - it's lower quality. Overlay it with DRM then. The option should be built right into the iTune app just like CDs.
AppleTV doesn't come remotely close to optical HD discs in quality or features. AppleTV compresses both the audio and video streams far more (they strip out some 16-22GB!!!! of color information and detail), it doesn't offer the same captioning features, it doesn't offer extras (you know, those cute little animation shorts on Pixar discs), and it doesn't offer you the option of rewatching your favorite parts of a movie the next day. This is the real VHS vs Beta war. It's cable, satellite, on-demand and video download companies racing to see how little quality the viewer will be satisfied with.
What's wrong with the DRM on Blu-ray? Is the author of this article actually suggesting the 24-hour time limit with a fraction of the quality is a better solution?
In the spirit of Steve Jobs and iTunes, I would rather own my music, ,er, HD videos.
I was wondering about that too. Did you notice there was a "Top Rentals" box on the iTunes Store home screen as well?
I noticed the "Top Rentals" box, but I didn't see any way to get to the rentals that aren't "top."
For me, the iTunes interface is cluttered and it is difficult for me to find things that aren't "recommended," "top," or "new." I just want to browse all the whatevers in a category.
You can ripp your CD's to iTunes but not your DVDs. Again you have to use either handbrake or of course buy it again from iTunes! But the government won't let iTunes do it but will let Handbrake.
This is what iTunes Digital Copy is intended for.
Hopefully Blu-Ray managed copy will exist some day too.
And another thing, I want to control the AppleTV with my iPhone, it sure would make a better controller, say tranfering the menu to the AppleTV app on iPhone and can order and schedule events on the AppleTV from anywhere in home or the office. I want my email viewable via Apple TV, again for office or home.
Feb when the SDK is released. I'm sure someone will figure it out.
While music and video purchases can be synced back to a desktop iTunes library, just like the new WiFi Store on the iPod Touch and iPhone, video rentals ordered on Apple TV can't.
You can rent movies directly from iTunes for playback on iPods, but those can't be synced to the Apple TV. Therefore, you have to choose whether a rental you order is something you want to watch on TV or anywhere else, before you actually rent it. Given that rentals are $3.99 and $4.99, that decision isn't as deeply ponderous as it might initially seem to be.
Um... maybe I'm misremembering the keynote, but that seems to directly contradict what Steve said. Or am I wrong?
Yes. I'm trying to figure this out as well. Steve showed copying a rented movie over to an iPod, didn't he?
Here are some specific questions I have coming out of the presentation...
1. Can you only rent HD movies through aTV, or can you do it Through iTunes as well (though I personally don't know why you'd want to)
2. Can you still pull content from iTunes libraries? If the answer is "yes", then people CAN rip DVDs they want and view them through the aTV. I would imagine you can, since surely you'd still want to view movies made through iMovie to be viewable on aTV.
3. Can HD movie rentals be moved to iPods? I tried copying an HD podcast to my iPod (first-generation video iPod) and it was a no go. Now this isn't really an issue because the quality difference viewing on my iPod screen would be impossible to see, and only recent generation iPods allow for component out, the minimum necessary for HD playback. But can new iPods hold HD videos? Has anyone tried copying an HD podcast to an new iPod Nano, iPod Touch, or iPhone?
4. Is there an HD codec for aTV now? Can people Visual Hub/Handbrake their own HD files?
Yes. I'm trying to figure this out as well. Steve showed copying a rented movie over to an iPod, didn't he?
Here are some specific questions I have coming out of the presentation...
1. Can you only rent HD movies through aTV, or can you do it Through iTunes as well (though I personally don't know why you'd want to)
2. Can you still pull content from iTunes libraries? If the answer is "yes", then people CAN rip DVDs they want and view them through the aTV. I would imagine you can, since surely you'd still want to view movies made through iMovie to be viewable on aTV.
3. Can HD movie rentals be moved to iPods? I tried copying an HD podcast to my iPod (first-generation video iPod) and it was a no go. Now this isn't really an issue because the quality difference viewing on my iPod screen would be impossible to see, and only recent generation iPods allow for component out, the minimum necessary for HD playback. But can new iPods hold HD videos? Has anyone tried copying an HD podcast to an new iPod Nano, iPod Touch, or iPhone?
4. Is there an HD codec for aTV now? Can people Visual Hub/Handbrake their own HD files?
After looking carefully at the movie rental pages for Apple TV and iTunes (they're separate pages), it does appear that only movies rented via iTunes, on your computer, can be transferred to the iPod. The Apple TV rentals page makes no mention of viewing a movie on the iPod later.
I'm sure the HD movies, regardless, won't play on the iPod, but I'm fine with that. You're buying the HD version for a reason, after all.
I still think I'm going to buy an Apple TV, because while I think the iPod is great for catching up on TV shows during my bus commute, I really don't view it as practical for viewing movies. Though I am going to wait a bit to see how quickly Apple expands the HD rental offerings.
3. Can HD movie rentals be moved to iPods? I tried copying an HD podcast to my iPod (first-generation video iPod) and it was a no go. Now this isn't really an issue because the quality difference viewing on my iPod screen would be impossible to see, and only recent generation iPods allow for component out, the minimum necessary for HD playback. But can new iPods hold HD videos? Has anyone tried copying an HD podcast to an new iPod Nano, iPod Touch, or iPhone?
HD podcasts do not transfer over to the iPod Touch. They are playable on the computer and the AppleTV.
The problem is that you shouldn't have to keep paying to play! All the upgrade does is keep putting neverending money in Apple's and the studio's pockets. If you already own your digital content (DVDs) you still don't have any new options except to use Handbrake! Who's talking about stealing? You should be able to stream you own DVDs from your computer at the very least , which would eliminate the DVD player from your system. HOw many boxes do you need? And I reall don't understand why you cannot rip your DVDs right in iTunes- you're not copying them in the exact same format - it's lower quality. Overlay it with DRM then. The option should be built right into the iTune app just like CDs.
1) Because you want it doesn't mean Apple should bend over backwards to satisfy your needs.
2) Your idea doesn't "eliminate the player", but merely moves it someplace elese, that most would find inconvenient. Id est, can you really see people popping DVD into their computer in the upstairs' den just to to watch it in thei down stairs living room when their is an excellent chance they have a DVD player next to the TV? How effective would it be to peruse a DVD with an IR remote to the AppleTV to the router to the Mac/PC. What a pain in the ass!
3) Talk with the movie studios about why they don't their movies copied. Talk to them about all the new DRM in HD optical media. You are a fool if you think you should be able to do it because your CD is shiny round disc, too. They must be the same! They have difference laws governing them and very, very different dynamics of how the media is utilized.
1) Because you want it doesn't mean Apple should bend over backwards to satisfy your needs.
2) Your idea doesn't "eliminate the player", but merely moves it someplace elese, that most would find inconvenient. Id est, can you really see people popping DVD into their computer in the upstairs' den just to to watch it in thei down stairs living room when their is an excellent chance they have a DVD player next to the TV? How effective would it be to peruse a DVD with an IR remote to the AppleTV to the router to the Mac/PC. What a pain in the ass!
3) Talk with the movie studios about why they don't their movies copied. Talk to them about all the new DRM in HD optical media. You are a fool if you think you should be able to do it because your CD is shiny round disc, too. They must be the same! They have difference laws governing them and very, very different dynamics of how the media is utilized.
I'm the fool yet you're the one who is totally satisfied with AppleTV as is and wants to keep spending money into the empty jukebox that Steve has sold you?
I'm the fool yet you're the one who is totally satisfied with AppleTV as is and wants to keep spending money into the empty jukebox that Steve has sold you?
You have absolutely no common sense. Yes, I pay for media for my AppleTV, just as people pay for media for DVD players, and jsut like people paid for media for their VHS players. I also pay to go to the movies and then buy a large popcorn and soda because I can.
The problem is that you shouldn't have to keep paying to play! All the upgrade does is keep putting neverending money in Apple's and the studio's pockets. If you already own your digital content (DVDs) you still don't have any new options except to use Handbrake! Who's talking about stealing? You should be able to stream you own DVDs from your computer at the very least , which would eliminate the DVD player from your system. HOw many boxes do you need? And I reall don't understand why you cannot rip your DVDs right in iTunes- you're not copying them in the exact same format - it's lower quality. Overlay it with DRM then. The option should be built right into the iTune app just like CDs.
I agree with solipsism, you CAN view your DVD movies on aTV by ripping them. You don't have to pay anything. If you choose, you can rent content, which is an entirely sensible thing to do. But it's not mandatory. Apple is offering an alternative to DVD rental, which I think is the ultimate goal.
In the end, I think for now the people who are going to stick with the disk formats are either those who want to pay little to nothing (Torrents, Netflix, Redbox devotees) for DVDs, or those cinephiles who really want the 1080p resolution that BR provides. But prices will eventually come down, and resolutions eventually will go up. This is another step. And a great one, in my opinion.
You have absolutely no common sense. Yes, I pay for media for my AppleTV, just as people pay for media for DVD players, and jsut like people paid for media for their VHS players. I also pay to go to the movies and then buy a large popcorn and soda because I can.
That's ridiculous. A DVD or CD or VHS machine play media specifically design for them and it's a given when you purchase it. The AppleTV according to your rationale should be renamed the iTunes Digital Jukebox.
Great- I'm glad you so happy with the AppleTV as a conduit to buy iTunes media. But you know what , there are very few of you and that's why it hasn't sold well. Keep spending.
Comments
"Kind of pissed they didn't add a high end model with a DVD slot. I would like an Apple TV, but the last thing I want is "another" device under the TV."
I just don't want more and more boxes down there, more and more remotes. I hate all that.
It's a neat concept, and those are good reasons for doing it, but 99.9% of people aren't willing to spend days on end ripping their collection, so doubling the size and cost of the Apple TV to include a disc drive would be a poor choice on Apple's part. Moreover, Apple could kiss their studio support goodbye if they provided a free means of bypassing DVD copyright protection, not to mention a hefty lawsuit. Besides, the Apple TV only has a 40 or 160GB hard drive ? with no means of adding more storage ? so it's not like there's anywhere to put the movies you can't rip anyhow. By the time Apple included a Blu-Ray drive, 1TB of storage, and everything else that's already in the Apple TV, you'd be talking about a niche product that's more expensive than most people in that niche are even willing to spend. They'd say, "why would I spend $xxxx on a set top box when I could buy a home theatre pc that does all that and more for $xxx?".
You don't have to change anything on the Apple TV apart from the software. Many people use Network Attached Storage (NAS) drives these days to store their DVD / Movie / Photos 'assets'. Software like 'MediaCentral' - very similar to Front Row; will let you open and play Video_TS folders from anywhere on your home network. It will only play unprotected video. So if the Apple TV could play Video_TS folders then I imagine a lot more people would be interested in the device.
Sadly, AppleTV has become basically an empty digital jukebox whose sole purpose is to give money continually to Apple via iTunes. It could have been so much more. But unfortunately there is no browser, no streaming DVD's from your computer, no taping of on-air programming, ripping my own DVD's, and on and on. I know it's those damn greedy movie studios and the government again that are forcing me to spend money on iTunes. Oh well- it could have been a video revolution.
And another thing, I want to control the AppleTV with my iPhone, it sure would make a better controller, say tranfering the menu to the AppleTV app on iPhone and can order and schedule events on the AppleTV from anywhere in home or the office. I want my email viewable via Apple TV, again for office or home.
What's the difference how, where, or to whom you pay?
In the end, you pay. That's all that matters.
The only around it is to steal content. You're not suggesting that, so what's the problem?
That's not the only way. There's borrowing, and file sharing. You don't always have to pay for everything, and nor should you.
Honestly, if you want to watch your DVDs, use your freakin' DVD player. It takes 1-2 hours to rip a DVD, and probably longer if it was done via the Apple TV's paltry little processor; it takes 30 seconds to pull a DVD from your shelf and put it in your DVD player. Whatever time you save by having all of your films listed digitally is negated by the hundreds of hours you'd spend to get them there.
Once again, my computer has a DVD drive. I buy and add an AppleTV to my entertainment system. All I ask is: Let me stream my DVDs to it and get rid of my DVD player. That is a totally reasonable request and simple to comprehend.
What's the difference how, where, or to whom you pay?
In the end, you pay. That's all that matters.
The only around it is to steal content. You're not suggesting that, so what's the problem?
The problem is that you shouldn't have to keep paying to play! All the upgrade does is keep putting neverending money in Apple's and the studio's pockets. If you already own your digital content (DVDs) you still don't have any new options except to use Handbrake! Who's talking about stealing? You should be able to stream you own DVDs from your computer at the very least , which would eliminate the DVD player from your system. HOw many boxes do you need? And I reall don't understand why you cannot rip your DVDs right in iTunes- you're not copying them in the exact same format - it's lower quality. Overlay it with DRM then. The option should be built right into the iTune app just like CDs.
What's wrong with the DRM on Blu-ray? Is the author of this article actually suggesting the 24-hour time limit with a fraction of the quality is a better solution?
In the spirit of Steve Jobs and iTunes, I would rather own my music, ,er, HD videos.
I was wondering about that too. Did you notice there was a "Top Rentals" box on the iTunes Store home screen as well?
I noticed the "Top Rentals" box, but I didn't see any way to get to the rentals that aren't "top."
For me, the iTunes interface is cluttered and it is difficult for me to find things that aren't "recommended," "top," or "new." I just want to browse all the whatevers in a category.
You can ripp your CD's to iTunes but not your DVDs. Again you have to use either handbrake or of course buy it again from iTunes! But the government won't let iTunes do it but will let Handbrake.
This is what iTunes Digital Copy is intended for.
Hopefully Blu-Ray managed copy will exist some day too.
And another thing, I want to control the AppleTV with my iPhone, it sure would make a better controller, say tranfering the menu to the AppleTV app on iPhone and can order and schedule events on the AppleTV from anywhere in home or the office. I want my email viewable via Apple TV, again for office or home.
Feb when the SDK is released. I'm sure someone will figure it out.
While music and video purchases can be synced back to a desktop iTunes library, just like the new WiFi Store on the iPod Touch and iPhone, video rentals ordered on Apple TV can't.
You can rent movies directly from iTunes for playback on iPods, but those can't be synced to the Apple TV. Therefore, you have to choose whether a rental you order is something you want to watch on TV or anywhere else, before you actually rent it. Given that rentals are $3.99 and $4.99, that decision isn't as deeply ponderous as it might initially seem to be.
Um... maybe I'm misremembering the keynote, but that seems to directly contradict what Steve said. Or am I wrong?
Here are some specific questions I have coming out of the presentation...
1. Can you only rent HD movies through aTV, or can you do it Through iTunes as well (though I personally don't know why you'd want to)
2. Can you still pull content from iTunes libraries? If the answer is "yes", then people CAN rip DVDs they want and view them through the aTV. I would imagine you can, since surely you'd still want to view movies made through iMovie to be viewable on aTV.
3. Can HD movie rentals be moved to iPods? I tried copying an HD podcast to my iPod (first-generation video iPod) and it was a no go. Now this isn't really an issue because the quality difference viewing on my iPod screen would be impossible to see, and only recent generation iPods allow for component out, the minimum necessary for HD playback. But can new iPods hold HD videos? Has anyone tried copying an HD podcast to an new iPod Nano, iPod Touch, or iPhone?
4. Is there an HD codec for aTV now? Can people Visual Hub/Handbrake their own HD files?
Yes. I'm trying to figure this out as well. Steve showed copying a rented movie over to an iPod, didn't he?
Here are some specific questions I have coming out of the presentation...
1. Can you only rent HD movies through aTV, or can you do it Through iTunes as well (though I personally don't know why you'd want to)
2. Can you still pull content from iTunes libraries? If the answer is "yes", then people CAN rip DVDs they want and view them through the aTV. I would imagine you can, since surely you'd still want to view movies made through iMovie to be viewable on aTV.
3. Can HD movie rentals be moved to iPods? I tried copying an HD podcast to my iPod (first-generation video iPod) and it was a no go. Now this isn't really an issue because the quality difference viewing on my iPod screen would be impossible to see, and only recent generation iPods allow for component out, the minimum necessary for HD playback. But can new iPods hold HD videos? Has anyone tried copying an HD podcast to an new iPod Nano, iPod Touch, or iPhone?
4. Is there an HD codec for aTV now? Can people Visual Hub/Handbrake their own HD files?
After looking carefully at the movie rental pages for Apple TV and iTunes (they're separate pages), it does appear that only movies rented via iTunes, on your computer, can be transferred to the iPod. The Apple TV rentals page makes no mention of viewing a movie on the iPod later.
I'm sure the HD movies, regardless, won't play on the iPod, but I'm fine with that. You're buying the HD version for a reason, after all.
I still think I'm going to buy an Apple TV, because while I think the iPod is great for catching up on TV shows during my bus commute, I really don't view it as practical for viewing movies. Though I am going to wait a bit to see how quickly Apple expands the HD rental offerings.
3. Can HD movie rentals be moved to iPods? I tried copying an HD podcast to my iPod (first-generation video iPod) and it was a no go. Now this isn't really an issue because the quality difference viewing on my iPod screen would be impossible to see, and only recent generation iPods allow for component out, the minimum necessary for HD playback. But can new iPods hold HD videos? Has anyone tried copying an HD podcast to an new iPod Nano, iPod Touch, or iPhone?
HD podcasts do not transfer over to the iPod Touch. They are playable on the computer and the AppleTV.
The problem is that you shouldn't have to keep paying to play! All the upgrade does is keep putting neverending money in Apple's and the studio's pockets. If you already own your digital content (DVDs) you still don't have any new options except to use Handbrake! Who's talking about stealing? You should be able to stream you own DVDs from your computer at the very least , which would eliminate the DVD player from your system. HOw many boxes do you need? And I reall don't understand why you cannot rip your DVDs right in iTunes- you're not copying them in the exact same format - it's lower quality. Overlay it with DRM then. The option should be built right into the iTune app just like CDs.
1) Because you want it doesn't mean Apple should bend over backwards to satisfy your needs.
2) Your idea doesn't "eliminate the player", but merely moves it someplace elese, that most would find inconvenient. Id est, can you really see people popping DVD into their computer in the upstairs' den just to to watch it in thei down stairs living room when their is an excellent chance they have a DVD player next to the TV? How effective would it be to peruse a DVD with an IR remote to the AppleTV to the router to the Mac/PC. What a pain in the ass!
3) Talk with the movie studios about why they don't their movies copied. Talk to them about all the new DRM in HD optical media. You are a fool if you think you should be able to do it because your CD is shiny round disc, too. They must be the same! They have difference laws governing them and very, very different dynamics of how the media is utilized.
1) Because you want it doesn't mean Apple should bend over backwards to satisfy your needs.
2) Your idea doesn't "eliminate the player", but merely moves it someplace elese, that most would find inconvenient. Id est, can you really see people popping DVD into their computer in the upstairs' den just to to watch it in thei down stairs living room when their is an excellent chance they have a DVD player next to the TV? How effective would it be to peruse a DVD with an IR remote to the AppleTV to the router to the Mac/PC. What a pain in the ass!
3) Talk with the movie studios about why they don't their movies copied. Talk to them about all the new DRM in HD optical media. You are a fool if you think you should be able to do it because your CD is shiny round disc, too. They must be the same! They have difference laws governing them and very, very different dynamics of how the media is utilized.
I'm the fool yet you're the one who is totally satisfied with AppleTV as is and wants to keep spending money into the empty jukebox that Steve has sold you?
I'm the fool yet you're the one who is totally satisfied with AppleTV as is and wants to keep spending money into the empty jukebox that Steve has sold you?
You have absolutely no common sense. Yes, I pay for media for my AppleTV, just as people pay for media for DVD players, and jsut like people paid for media for their VHS players. I also pay to go to the movies and then buy a large popcorn and soda because I can.
The problem is that you shouldn't have to keep paying to play! All the upgrade does is keep putting neverending money in Apple's and the studio's pockets. If you already own your digital content (DVDs) you still don't have any new options except to use Handbrake! Who's talking about stealing? You should be able to stream you own DVDs from your computer at the very least , which would eliminate the DVD player from your system. HOw many boxes do you need? And I reall don't understand why you cannot rip your DVDs right in iTunes- you're not copying them in the exact same format - it's lower quality. Overlay it with DRM then. The option should be built right into the iTune app just like CDs.
I agree with solipsism, you CAN view your DVD movies on aTV by ripping them. You don't have to pay anything. If you choose, you can rent content, which is an entirely sensible thing to do. But it's not mandatory. Apple is offering an alternative to DVD rental, which I think is the ultimate goal.
In the end, I think for now the people who are going to stick with the disk formats are either those who want to pay little to nothing (Torrents, Netflix, Redbox devotees) for DVDs, or those cinephiles who really want the 1080p resolution that BR provides. But prices will eventually come down, and resolutions eventually will go up. This is another step. And a great one, in my opinion.
You have absolutely no common sense. Yes, I pay for media for my AppleTV, just as people pay for media for DVD players, and jsut like people paid for media for their VHS players. I also pay to go to the movies and then buy a large popcorn and soda because I can.
That's ridiculous. A DVD or CD or VHS machine play media specifically design for them and it's a given when you purchase it. The AppleTV according to your rationale should be renamed the iTunes Digital Jukebox.
Great- I'm glad you so happy with the AppleTV as a conduit to buy iTunes media. But you know what , there are very few of you and that's why it hasn't sold well. Keep spending.