The problem is likely caused by a mismatch between the security level of the website (older) and the what the browser expects (newer).
I had this problem with Firefox and a the control panel at one of my webhosting companies.
For example, I got this message in Firefox "Firefox cannot connect securely because the site uses an older insecure version of the SSL protocol". That is because the default setting in Firefox is to NOT support insecurity. The problem and solution are described at http://tinyurl.com/2ooh2e in the Firefox knowledgebase. With Firefox I had to manually adjust my browser settings to accept the older protocol.
My guess is that Safari has the same behavior. The browser developers don't want to support protocols that can be exploited. And, webmasters were supposed to "get with it" and upgrade to the newer protocols.
What I don't know how to do is change Safari's behavior as I can with Firefox. I suspect that you cannot change Safari as Apple tries to make things easy and not complicated.
,dave
I find that most software that has a Pc background will let you adjust many parameters, whereas most Mac based software won't.
It seems as though security is truly not a big concern in the PC world, as it's always so easy to turn it off.
Many AppleInsider threads appear to try to be driving Apple stocks prices...it looks like many people had their asses handed to them here just recently. I still love AppleInsider though.
Since I started with Apple's first Mac OS, I have seen many an Apple OS. Leopard still needs work (anyone who says differently is simply lying) albeit it is very promising.
Sigh. It is possible to have differing opinions without "lying". I have owned and used every single version of MacOS since System 4.2 on a Mac Plus. Leopard has a few bugs, but is easily the best experience of any version ever, for me. If you've been hit particularly hard by a bug I can see why your opinion might differ, but please refrain from calling me a liar.
My brand new Macbook Pro 2.4GHz running Leopard has been very flaky. Screen freezes which 10.5.1 didn't fix, recently upgraded (or supposedly Leopard friendly) apps crashing, Mail going offline without explanation and the dreaded spinny beach ball from my G3/G4 years is back.
I've now re-installed Tiger until Apple release the biggy, then hopefully we can start again.
If i wasn't a veteran of 15 years of Apple and was a newbie, i'd be a very dissatisfied customer indeed.
Just to add to that, my new 3rd gen iPod has gone back twice through lock-up failures and now my iPod Touch's Safari browser won't respond to certain touch commands since the recent update.
My brand new Macbook Pro 2.4GHz running Leopard has been very flaky. Screen freezes which 10.5.1 didn't fix, recently upgraded (or supposedly Leopard friendly) apps crashing, Mail going offline without explanation and the dreaded spinny beach ball from my G3/G4 years is back.
How did you install Leopard? Quite a few people found that an 'upgrade' install caused a few problems, but when they did 'erase and install', things got better. If you have a separate hard drive to clone your old system to, you can use the migration assistant to move the data.
It may not work for everyone, but it helped for some - if you want to try Leopard again.
Personally, I don't think I'd bother. There aren't all that many 'must haves' in Leopard for my taste.
Even I was surprised by the kvetching in the past few days, but on balance, I have to agree with the poster above (paraphrasing) that we have to take the good with the bad.
And, AI is still one of the best around. I am glad I found this community.
Couple of additional points:
1) For the record, I am **thrilled** with this year's product (and improvement) announcements. I will be buying @TV (40GB), TC (1TB), and the MBA over the next year, for sure.
3) People complaining about the stock price are probably day-trader/short-termer types completely missing the fact that Apple ran up over 135% from the '07MWSF to the pre-'08MWSF peak, and despite the drop of 20% from that peak, the stock is still up nearly 90% from the price the day before last year's keynote. If they don't have the faith, then they should sell and move on. But here's some random comparisons of price gains (% change from day before '07MWSF to today):
there is sometimes a crash of Safari when using Adobe Acrobat Professional CS3. But, otherwise, I've found this to be the most stable version (3.0.4) yet.
Unfortunately, for me, Safari is still crashing occassionally, and is beach-balling pretty often. I have 3.0.4. \
Am looking forward to 3.0.5. But maybe more importantly, I'm waiting for Firefox 3, which isn't far off at all (they're already at beta 2, last I checked).
I love Safari's speed (when it isn't beach-balling for 30-60 seconds), but its definitely given me more hassles than I would've liked.
Even I was surprised by the kvetching in the past few days, but on balance, I have to agree with the poster above (paraphrasing) that we have to take the good with the bad.
And, AI is still one of the best around. I am glad I found this community.
Couple of additional points:
1) For the record, I am **thrilled** with this year's product (and improvement) announcements. I will be buying @TV (40GB), TC (1TB), and the MBA over the next year, for sure.
3) People complaining about the stock price are probably day-trader/short-termer types completely missing the fact that Apple ran up over 135% from the '07MWSF to the pre-'08MWSF peak, and despite the drop of 20% from that peak, the stock is still up nearly 90% from the price the day before last year's keynote. If they don't have the faith, then they should sell and move on. But here's some random comparisons of price gains (% change from day before '07MWSF to today):
What's particularly interesting here is not that OS X satisfaction is so high, it's that Vista satisfaction is so astoundingly low -- particularly considering that these are ratings based on NEW machines that meet or exceed the recommended requirements for Vista. Even when we throw out the ratings for Home Basic (which was intentionally designed by Microsoft to suck), it is amazing to me that Vista can't muster HALF the satisfaction rating of the more than six-year-old XP.
Imagine for a moment a bizarro world where System 9.2.2 was still kicking around (with Service Release 2, of course), and users were STILL more than twice as likely to be satisfied with it as they were with OS X.
Unfortunately, for me, Safari is still crashing occassionally, and is beach-balling pretty often. I have 3.0.4. \
Am looking forward to 3.0.5. But maybe more importantly, I'm waiting for Firefox 3, which isn't far off at all (they're already at beta 2, last I checked).
I love Safari's speed (when it isn't beach-balling for 30-60 seconds), but its definitely given me more hassles than I would've liked.
.
Just goes to show that each machine is different. All this depends on the other software available, the particular hardware, and even the setting of the prefs.
Just goes to show that each machine is different. All this depends on the other software available, the particular hardware, and even the setting of the prefs.
Yep, and then there are those who will never say anything nice about Apple?
Interesting how selective people are in their acceptance or rejection of polls, studies, and analyses. If a study like this one says users are happy with Leopard it is immediately pounced upon by those who have already decided Leopard is crap, like this little tidbit from an earlier post ("Leopard still needs work (anyone who says differently is simply lying))" Wow what a statement!
Most Mac centric forums have become totally useless for discussion. It's like the Democrats and the Republicans. It's not about discussion or compromise. It's about totally destroying anyone who disagrees with their vision of the truth no matter what.
Leopard is great! Anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
Leopard is crap! Anyone who disagrees is stupid.
The MacBook Air is doomed to fail! Anyone who thinks otherwise is hopeless fanboy!
The MacBook Air will sell millions! Anyone who thinks otherwise is a troll!
Yep, and then there are those who will never say anything nice about Apple…
If you're referring to me specifically... oh please. I'm typing this on my girlfriend's MacBook.... a Mac she got largely due to my urging. She had been considering a PC.
I've gotten several ppl on the Mac over the years. So, I think I don't have to smooch Steve's butt TOO damn much when I post on a forum, and can tell it like it is. Thanks.
What's particularly interesting here is not that OS X satisfaction is so high, it's that Vista satisfaction is so astoundingly low -- particularly considering that these are ratings based on NEW machines that meet or exceed the recommended requirements for Vista. Even when we throw out the ratings for Home Basic (which was intentionally designed by Microsoft to suck), it is amazing to me that Vista can't muster HALF the satisfaction rating of the more than six-year-old XP.
Imagine for a moment a bizarro world where System 9.2.2 was still kicking around (with Service Release 2, of course), and users were STILL more than twice as likely to be satisfied with it as they were with OS X.
Would you even want to own a Mac?
Would anyone?
Not really - depends on the questions asked, who asked them, and the types of people polled. You could pull a bunch of Apple users, and get negative opinions of Microsoft, but it would statistically biased, and you could derive all sorts of conclusions from it. Same goes in reverse.
But I find more statistics bullshit to begin with, ever since I read "How to Lie with Statistics", which was written back in the 1950's. Or at least I see things from a more cynical view because of it.
I could tell you that, for myself, upgrading from Tiger to Leopard was absolutely terrible, whereas the clean install was fine. But I've upgraded other computers from Tiger, and it went off with a hitch. I've even upgraded Windows machines, which when fine, but never works for me.
Luck of the draw I suppose.
And as for Vista, the betas where terrible, but the final build was fine, and the RC betas of SP1 are even better.
My overall experiences with Vista and Leopard have been positive. Only driver issue I've had with Vista was my old scanner, and Nvidia drivers sometime early last year. Leopard loves to not pick up my Bluetooth mouse when I start up my Mini, and it's annoying as hell, but that's really about it.
The problem with Vista is a) 5 years for this, over XP, b) negative word of mouth, mainly due to piss poor drivers, although Leopard is not immune from all those troubles either, and c) 1 GB minimum RAM requirement. CPU doesn't seem to factor much, but it takes a lot memory to run well.
And as for Leopard, seeing as some users are clamoring for 10.5.2, it might have been rushed out of the gate too.
Not really - depends on the questions asked, who asked them, and the types of people polled. You could pull a bunch of Apple users, and get negative opinions of Microsoft, but it would statistically biased, and you could derive all sorts of conclusions from it. Same goes in reverse.
But I find more statistics bullshit to begin with, ever since I read "How to Lie with Statistics", which was written back in the 1950's. Or at least I see things from a more cynical view because of it.
.......
And as for Vista, the betas where terrible, but the final build was fine, .......
My overall experiences with Vista and Leopard have been positive. ......
The problem with Vista is a) 5 years for this, over XP, b) negative word of mouth, mainly due to piss poor drivers, ........
And as for Leopard, seeing as some users are clamoring for 10.5.2, it might have been rushed out of the gate too.
Here you are, lecturing people on "polling" and statistics being "bullshit," and in the same post, you say "some" users clamoring might suggest it has "been rushed out of the gate"?
Your post sounds to me like (Quote) 'bullshit' (Unquote).
Interesting how selective people are in their acceptance or rejection of polls, studies, and analyses. If a study like this one says users are happy with Leopard it is immediately pounced upon by those who have already decided Leopard is crap, like this little tidbit from an earlier post ("Leopard still needs work (anyone who says differently is simply lying))" Wow what a statement!
Most Mac centric forums have become totally useless for discussion. It's like the Democrats and the Republicans. It's not about discussion or compromise. It's about totally destroying anyone who disagrees with their vision of the truth no matter what.
Leopard is great! Anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
Leopard is crap! Anyone who disagrees is stupid.
The MacBook Air is doomed to fail! Anyone who thinks otherwise is hopeless fanboy!
The MacBook Air will sell millions! Anyone who thinks otherwise is a troll!
If 100% of people were very satisfied about something, I would think that the question was biased in such as way as to force that answer.
Not really - depends on the questions asked, who asked them, and the types of people polled. You could pull a bunch of Apple users, and get negative opinions of Microsoft, but it would statistically biased, and you could derive all sorts of conclusions from it. Same goes in reverse.
But I find more statistics bullshit to begin with, ever since I read "How to Lie with Statistics", which was written back in the 1950's. Or at least I see things from a more cynical view because of it.
I could tell you that, for myself, upgrading from Tiger to Leopard was absolutely terrible, whereas the clean install was fine. But I've upgraded other computers from Tiger, and it went off with a hitch. I've even upgraded Windows machines, which when fine, but never works for me.
Luck of the draw I suppose.
And as for Vista, the betas where terrible, but the final build was fine, and the RC betas of SP1 are even better.
My overall experiences with Vista and Leopard have been positive. Only driver issue I've had with Vista was my old scanner, and Nvidia drivers sometime early last year. Leopard loves to not pick up my Bluetooth mouse when I start up my Mini, and it's annoying as hell, but that's really about it.
The problem with Vista is a) 5 years for this, over XP, b) negative word of mouth, mainly due to piss poor drivers, although Leopard is not immune from all those troubles either, and c) 1 GB minimum RAM requirement. CPU doesn't seem to factor much, but it takes a lot memory to run well.
And as for Leopard, seeing as some users are clamoring for 10.5.2, it might have been rushed out of the gate too.
The only time statistics lie is when some intend for it to, or some error has been made.
Comments
polar315,
The problem is likely caused by a mismatch between the security level of the website (older) and the what the browser expects (newer).
I had this problem with Firefox and a the control panel at one of my webhosting companies.
For example, I got this message in Firefox "Firefox cannot connect securely because the site uses an older insecure version of the SSL protocol". That is because the default setting in Firefox is to NOT support insecurity. The problem and solution are described at http://tinyurl.com/2ooh2e in the Firefox knowledgebase. With Firefox I had to manually adjust my browser settings to accept the older protocol.
My guess is that Safari has the same behavior. The browser developers don't want to support protocols that can be exploited. And, webmasters were supposed to "get with it" and upgrade to the newer protocols.
What I don't know how to do is change Safari's behavior as I can with Firefox. I suspect that you cannot change Safari as Apple tries to make things easy and not complicated.
,dave
I find that most software that has a Pc background will let you adjust many parameters, whereas most Mac based software won't.
It seems as though security is truly not a big concern in the PC world, as it's always so easy to turn it off.
Many AppleInsider threads appear to try to be driving Apple stocks prices...it looks like many people had their asses handed to them here just recently. I still love AppleInsider though.
Since I started with Apple's first Mac OS, I have seen many an Apple OS. Leopard still needs work (anyone who says differently is simply lying) albeit it is very promising.
Sigh. It is possible to have differing opinions without "lying". I have owned and used every single version of MacOS since System 4.2 on a Mac Plus. Leopard has a few bugs, but is easily the best experience of any version ever, for me. If you've been hit particularly hard by a bug I can see why your opinion might differ, but please refrain from calling me a liar.
My brand new Macbook Pro 2.4GHz running Leopard has been very flaky. Screen freezes which 10.5.1 didn't fix, recently upgraded (or supposedly Leopard friendly) apps crashing, Mail going offline without explanation and the dreaded spinny beach ball from my G3/G4 years is back.
I've now re-installed Tiger until Apple release the biggy, then hopefully we can start again.
If i wasn't a veteran of 15 years of Apple and was a newbie, i'd be a very dissatisfied customer indeed.
Just to add to that, my new 3rd gen iPod has gone back twice through lock-up failures and now my iPod Touch's Safari browser won't respond to certain touch commands since the recent update.
But i still love em!!
Actually my recent experience is the opposite.
My brand new Macbook Pro 2.4GHz running Leopard has been very flaky. Screen freezes which 10.5.1 didn't fix, recently upgraded (or supposedly Leopard friendly) apps crashing, Mail going offline without explanation and the dreaded spinny beach ball from my G3/G4 years is back.
How did you install Leopard? Quite a few people found that an 'upgrade' install caused a few problems, but when they did 'erase and install', things got better. If you have a separate hard drive to clone your old system to, you can use the migration assistant to move the data.
It may not work for everyone, but it helped for some - if you want to try Leopard again.
Personally, I don't think I'd bother. There aren't all that many 'must haves' in Leopard for my taste.
And, AI is still one of the best around. I am glad I found this community.
Couple of additional points:
1) For the record, I am **thrilled** with this year's product (and improvement) announcements. I will be buying @TV (40GB), TC (1TB), and the MBA over the next year, for sure.
2) For those suffering some angst on the MBA, I highly recommend Pogue today: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/te...h/17pogue.html
3) People complaining about the stock price are probably day-trader/short-termer types completely missing the fact that Apple ran up over 135% from the '07MWSF to the pre-'08MWSF peak, and despite the drop of 20% from that peak, the stock is still up nearly 90% from the price the day before last year's keynote. If they don't have the faith, then they should sell and move on. But here's some random comparisons of price gains (% change from day before '07MWSF to today):
Apple: +88%
MSFT: +8%
Intel: -11%
Palm: -62%
Nokia: +69%
Adobe: -11%
Citi: -54%
Dow: -3%
S&P: -7%
Nasdaq: -6%
Get a grip, folks!
there is sometimes a crash of Safari when using Adobe Acrobat Professional CS3. But, otherwise, I've found this to be the most stable version (3.0.4) yet.
Unfortunately, for me, Safari is still crashing occassionally, and is beach-balling pretty often. I have 3.0.4.
Am looking forward to 3.0.5. But maybe more importantly, I'm waiting for Firefox 3, which isn't far off at all (they're already at beta 2, last I checked).
I love Safari's speed (when it isn't beach-balling for 30-60 seconds), but its definitely given me more hassles than I would've liked.
.
Even I was surprised by the kvetching in the past few days, but on balance, I have to agree with the poster above (paraphrasing) that we have to take the good with the bad.
And, AI is still one of the best around. I am glad I found this community.
Couple of additional points:
1) For the record, I am **thrilled** with this year's product (and improvement) announcements. I will be buying @TV (40GB), TC (1TB), and the MBA over the next year, for sure.
2) For those suffering some angst on the MBA, I highly recommend Pogue today: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/te...h/17pogue.html
3) People complaining about the stock price are probably day-trader/short-termer types completely missing the fact that Apple ran up over 135% from the '07MWSF to the pre-'08MWSF peak, and despite the drop of 20% from that peak, the stock is still up nearly 90% from the price the day before last year's keynote. If they don't have the faith, then they should sell and move on. But here's some random comparisons of price gains (% change from day before '07MWSF to today):
Apple: +88%
MSFT: +8%
Intel: -11%
Palm: -62%
Nokia: +69%
Adobe: -11%
Citi: -54%
Dow: -3%
S&P: -7%
Nasdaq: -6%
Get a grip, folks!
QFT. Great post.
Imagine for a moment a bizarro world where System 9.2.2 was still kicking around (with Service Release 2, of course), and users were STILL more than twice as likely to be satisfied with it as they were with OS X.
Would you even want to own a Mac?
Would anyone?
Unfortunately, for me, Safari is still crashing occassionally, and is beach-balling pretty often. I have 3.0.4.
Am looking forward to 3.0.5. But maybe more importantly, I'm waiting for Firefox 3, which isn't far off at all (they're already at beta 2, last I checked).
I love Safari's speed (when it isn't beach-balling for 30-60 seconds), but its definitely given me more hassles than I would've liked.
.
Just goes to show that each machine is different. All this depends on the other software available, the particular hardware, and even the setting of the prefs.
Just goes to show that each machine is different. All this depends on the other software available, the particular hardware, and even the setting of the prefs.
Yep, and then there are those who will never say anything nice about Apple?
Most Mac centric forums have become totally useless for discussion. It's like the Democrats and the Republicans. It's not about discussion or compromise. It's about totally destroying anyone who disagrees with their vision of the truth no matter what.
Leopard is great! Anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
Leopard is crap! Anyone who disagrees is stupid.
The MacBook Air is doomed to fail! Anyone who thinks otherwise is hopeless fanboy!
The MacBook Air will sell millions! Anyone who thinks otherwise is a troll!
Yep, and then there are those who will never say anything nice about Apple…
If you're referring to me specifically... oh please. I'm typing this on my girlfriend's MacBook.... a Mac she got largely due to my urging. She had been considering a PC.
I've gotten several ppl on the Mac over the years. So, I think I don't have to smooch Steve's butt TOO damn much when I post on a forum, and can tell it like it is. Thanks.
.
If you're referring to me specifically...
Nope!
Nope!
Outstanding.
.
What's particularly interesting here is not that OS X satisfaction is so high, it's that Vista satisfaction is so astoundingly low -- particularly considering that these are ratings based on NEW machines that meet or exceed the recommended requirements for Vista. Even when we throw out the ratings for Home Basic (which was intentionally designed by Microsoft to suck), it is amazing to me that Vista can't muster HALF the satisfaction rating of the more than six-year-old XP.
Imagine for a moment a bizarro world where System 9.2.2 was still kicking around (with Service Release 2, of course), and users were STILL more than twice as likely to be satisfied with it as they were with OS X.
Would you even want to own a Mac?
Would anyone?
Not really - depends on the questions asked, who asked them, and the types of people polled. You could pull a bunch of Apple users, and get negative opinions of Microsoft, but it would statistically biased, and you could derive all sorts of conclusions from it. Same goes in reverse.
But I find more statistics bullshit to begin with, ever since I read "How to Lie with Statistics", which was written back in the 1950's. Or at least I see things from a more cynical view because of it.
I could tell you that, for myself, upgrading from Tiger to Leopard was absolutely terrible, whereas the clean install was fine. But I've upgraded other computers from Tiger, and it went off with a hitch. I've even upgraded Windows machines, which when fine, but never works for me.
Luck of the draw I suppose.
And as for Vista, the betas where terrible, but the final build was fine, and the RC betas of SP1 are even better.
My overall experiences with Vista and Leopard have been positive. Only driver issue I've had with Vista was my old scanner, and Nvidia drivers sometime early last year. Leopard loves to not pick up my Bluetooth mouse when I start up my Mini, and it's annoying as hell, but that's really about it.
The problem with Vista is a) 5 years for this, over XP, b) negative word of mouth, mainly due to piss poor drivers, although Leopard is not immune from all those troubles either, and c) 1 GB minimum RAM requirement. CPU doesn't seem to factor much, but it takes a lot memory to run well.
And as for Leopard, seeing as some users are clamoring for 10.5.2, it might have been rushed out of the gate too.
Not really - depends on the questions asked, who asked them, and the types of people polled. You could pull a bunch of Apple users, and get negative opinions of Microsoft, but it would statistically biased, and you could derive all sorts of conclusions from it. Same goes in reverse.
But I find more statistics bullshit to begin with, ever since I read "How to Lie with Statistics", which was written back in the 1950's. Or at least I see things from a more cynical view because of it.
.......
And as for Vista, the betas where terrible, but the final build was fine, .......
My overall experiences with Vista and Leopard have been positive. ......
The problem with Vista is a) 5 years for this, over XP, b) negative word of mouth, mainly due to piss poor drivers, ........
And as for Leopard, seeing as some users are clamoring for 10.5.2, it might have been rushed out of the gate too.
Here you are, lecturing people on "polling" and statistics being "bullshit," and in the same post, you say "some" users clamoring might suggest it has "been rushed out of the gate"?
Your post sounds to me like (Quote) 'bullshit' (Unquote).
Interesting how selective people are in their acceptance or rejection of polls, studies, and analyses. If a study like this one says users are happy with Leopard it is immediately pounced upon by those who have already decided Leopard is crap, like this little tidbit from an earlier post ("Leopard still needs work (anyone who says differently is simply lying))" Wow what a statement!
Most Mac centric forums have become totally useless for discussion. It's like the Democrats and the Republicans. It's not about discussion or compromise. It's about totally destroying anyone who disagrees with their vision of the truth no matter what.
Leopard is great! Anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
Leopard is crap! Anyone who disagrees is stupid.
The MacBook Air is doomed to fail! Anyone who thinks otherwise is hopeless fanboy!
The MacBook Air will sell millions! Anyone who thinks otherwise is a troll!
If 100% of people were very satisfied about something, I would think that the question was biased in such as way as to force that answer.
81% is pretty good. I wouldn't argue with it.
81% is pretty good. I wouldn't argue with it.
Even that number seems uncommonly high.
Not really - depends on the questions asked, who asked them, and the types of people polled. You could pull a bunch of Apple users, and get negative opinions of Microsoft, but it would statistically biased, and you could derive all sorts of conclusions from it. Same goes in reverse.
But I find more statistics bullshit to begin with, ever since I read "How to Lie with Statistics", which was written back in the 1950's. Or at least I see things from a more cynical view because of it.
I could tell you that, for myself, upgrading from Tiger to Leopard was absolutely terrible, whereas the clean install was fine. But I've upgraded other computers from Tiger, and it went off with a hitch. I've even upgraded Windows machines, which when fine, but never works for me.
Luck of the draw I suppose.
And as for Vista, the betas where terrible, but the final build was fine, and the RC betas of SP1 are even better.
My overall experiences with Vista and Leopard have been positive. Only driver issue I've had with Vista was my old scanner, and Nvidia drivers sometime early last year. Leopard loves to not pick up my Bluetooth mouse when I start up my Mini, and it's annoying as hell, but that's really about it.
The problem with Vista is a) 5 years for this, over XP, b) negative word of mouth, mainly due to piss poor drivers, although Leopard is not immune from all those troubles either, and c) 1 GB minimum RAM requirement. CPU doesn't seem to factor much, but it takes a lot memory to run well.
And as for Leopard, seeing as some users are clamoring for 10.5.2, it might have been rushed out of the gate too.
The only time statistics lie is when some intend for it to, or some error has been made.
Most of the time statistics are fine.
Even that number seems uncommonly high.
Not for something like this.
First of all, despite reports of problems here and there, Leopard has gone pretty well.
Secondly, the audience itself is already biased towards it.
So it depends.