Snow Squall Causes Accident

Posted:
in AppleOutsider edited January 2014
I love news like this: a snow squall caused an accident involving 68 vehicles.



Sixty-eight vehicles.



Sixty-eight. One death, many injuries.



The snow was to blame.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080211/...8DyNZ9K79vzwcF



IMO, the weather did not cause the accident; the drivers themselves caused the accident by 1) being out in the bad weather, 2) driving too fast, 3) driving too close and 4) simply being stupid by not stopping when the weather turned foul.



The weather led to conditions that were unsafe for driving (the police said there was zero visibility), but the idiots went out (or stayed out) anyways and probably drove like idiots (hurrying to get home before the weather got worse) ... but the weather was to blame.



The good guys and girls from 911 then have to go out and rescue these idiots in the crappy weather. They care more about the people than the people do about themselves. They are then called heros, the accident is forgotten, and people repeat the same thing next year. The rescue squad goes out again... and possibly cannot respond to the guy who has a heart attack at home.



If the weather turns bad, stay home. If you are already out, find a safe spot and hunker down. Anybody in an area prone to weather like this should be prepared at all times. A $50 pack full of gear will keep you fine for three days or more even if hell breaks loose. A simple ounce of common sense would likely alleviate the need to use the pack altogether.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 18
    sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    I agree with you 100%. We get a lot of fog in winter in the Central Valley here in California, and every year there are multiple pileups caused by people driving too close together in poor visibility. Nobody seems to learn. People, especially when driving a vehicle should not only be more aware of the laws of physics, but also their driving capability. How many are aware of reaction time... the distance covered at certain speeds between sighting a problem, and acting upon it? Tiredness increases reaction time, and distractions (eating/drinking/messing with cd/radio/GPS/talking on the phone, doing makeup (!) etc.) increase reaction time dramatically.



    Blaming the weather for a multiple pileup is like blaming the gun for a shooting spree.
  • Reply 2 of 18
    mydomydo Posts: 1,888member
    I think unless you've actually been in one of those you can't believe how fast the weather can change. I have been. It goes from "Oh look light snow is blowing" to "huh, I guess it's gonna snow" to "I think I'll get off at the next exit" to "okay just follow the car in front of me and hope they can see." You basically drive into a wall of snow that you can't tell is there until you've in it.



    On some highways you have miles and miles between exits. Visibility drops so quickly that cannot get off before it gets bad. Of course you slow down but on a highway with speed limit of 65-70 you start to worry about traffic coming up behind you. OF COURSE you're not going to stop. That's just suicide. You could get off if you can see the exit.



    Bergermeister, sammi jo unless you've been in one of these you can STFU. I have and there's no solid pat answer you can post to a message board to make you feel superior to others.
  • Reply 3 of 18
    "ST#U" really doesn't win a lot of debates.



    I spent 20 years in an area that was prone to sudden and severe storms and went through a good number of storms and currently live in an area that is prone to intense and sudden fog, sudden hail storms, freezing rain on steep, winding mountain roads, typhoons, flooding, mudslides, landslides and earthquakes (not to mention an active volcano belt that adds yet another dimension but fortunately has been quiet as of late). I drive a lot (and drove a lot when I lived in the US) and I see how people drive, and many drive insanely.



    I also used to work for the emergency services and still carry a full medical and rescue kit at all times in my vehicle as well as a survival kit for 4.



    In the case of one of these pileups, the weather does not cause the accident; the drivers do. They need to learn to slow down and drive appropriately for the weather, which may mean not driving at all. They need to check the conditions before they start their journey and perhaps decide on a different route or to stay put. They need to ask that action be taken to increase highway safety through the installation of warning signs and gates that can be operated from a distant office based on conditions which can be monitored by cameras and weather sensors. Speed limit signs that are digital can be changed to lower the speed during adverse conditions. They could ask that special areas be created along the shoulders so that stopping is safe; there should be areas to rest anyways (other than rest stops). They need to stop complaining about taxes so much and pay for added safety patrol officers to help slow people down. There are many things that can be done. Most importantly, they need to learn to think and how to drive safely and perhaps not drive at all if the weather is threatening.



    http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/...iving-tips.htm

    http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/saf...interdrive.htm

    http://www.fema.gov/hazard/winter/wi_during.shtm



    How many people have actually visited a site like these and followed the advice?



    Interesting thing today is if you Google "Pennsylvania accident" a rather long list of, yep, lawyers comes up. Lots of them will be getting fat bonuses off of this incident.
  • Reply 4 of 18
    Sometimes you find yourself on the road in such a situation. Weather changes fast. It has happened to me. Don't be so fast to judge.
  • Reply 5 of 18
    Trust me. I have been there. More than once. That is why I say you have to know what to do in that circumstance; most people don't think about it. It's also why I suggest that the infrastructure be improved to help prevent people from getting into those situations and/or to survive them.
  • Reply 6 of 18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mydo View Post


    ... Bergermeister, sammi jo unless you've been in one of these...



    ok, I HAVE been in more than one of these things. And I'll say that Berermeister is right. 100%.
  • Reply 7 of 18
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    In the south, where I live, chain crashes are often blamed on "surprising snowfall".



    What a huge surprise: it snows in winter!



    I come from the north. There, six or seven months of the year are snow and ice. That's a lot of snow. Yet I haven't heard a single crash blamed on snow up north.



    Bad weather certainly causes more accidents, but the only thing that will ever cause a 10+ car chain crash is the incompetency of most of the drivers involved.



    My first and only car so far was a rear wheel drive with almost all the weight in the front. No power steering, ABS or other electronics. I have multiple horror stories, real cold sweat situations (ever had an instantaneous, total loss of brake pressure at speed in city traffic due to a mechanical fault?), most of them from very slippery conditions, but to this day I have never had a car crash.



    Judging from my experiences with new Audis and the like, someone who has always driven with all those assistive electronics has no clue whatsoever how much the car is doing for them. Maybe this is part of the reason why there are so many poor drivers.



    The electronic traction control can make 60mph easy and effortless in a situation where 40mph in my old car would have meant constant sliding, steering, and maybe a little bit of fear. When the electronically assisted driver goes to higher speeds, the traction control starts to hit the laws of physics and can't do as much, the driver hasn't learned fine control at lower speeds, and most of all the driver probably does not respect the conditions as much.
  • Reply 9 of 18
    shawnjshawnj Posts: 6,656member
    That happened about 45 minutes up the road from me.
  • Reply 10 of 18
    sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mydo View Post


    I think unless you've actually been in one of those you can't believe how fast the weather can change. I have been. It goes from "Oh look light snow is blowing" to "huh, I guess it's gonna snow" to "I think I'll get off at the next exit" to "okay just follow the car in front of me and hope they can see." You basically drive into a wall of snow that you can't tell is there until you've in it.



    On some highways you have miles and miles between exits. Visibility drops so quickly that cannot get off before it gets bad. Of course you slow down but on a highway with speed limit of 65-70 you start to worry about traffic coming up behind you. OF COURSE you're not going to stop. That's just suicide. You could get off if you can see the exit.



    Bergermeister, sammi jo unless you've been in one of these you can STFU. I have and there's no solid pat answer you can post to a message board to make you feel superior to others.



    Good driving is firstly about anticipation of road/traffic conditions, and being aware of everything thats going around you.



    Secondly, its about not being an asshole on the road, in fine weather or foul. People who drive in a moronic fashion tend to cause the accidents; those who drive considerately who end up in accidents are usually the victims of the idiot/moron who doesn't know how to drive, or doesn't care. What are moronic driving habits? Here's a few:

    *Tailgating.

    *Driving at a large speed differential to the predominant traffic (either much faster or much slower)

    *Not using indicators.

    *Making sudden moves without warning other drivers

    *Multitasking while driving at speed

    *Getting angry with another motorist and acting upon that anger

    *Thinking that you are much more skilled at driving than you really are



    ... etc.



    Some of these are testosterone related. Despite all the jokes about "woman drivers", statistics indicate that proportionately, male drivers cause more accidents than females.



    And yes, "STFU" not only is no way to win a debate, but lumps a person in with the Bill O'Reilly method: it's an instant admission of losing an argument.
  • Reply 11 of 18
    "Good driving is firstly about anticipation of road/traffic conditions, and being aware of everything thats going around you."



    but you can't always Sammi. Sometimes things get real bad, real fast and you are stuck in it.
  • Reply 12 of 18
    shawnjshawnj Posts: 6,656member
    Im not sure where it happened exactly but I-81-N/S from around the Schuylkill Valley to Hazelton is notorious for poor visibility due to fog. There's pretty much nothing there and some long straight sections of the highway (also some "Are they kidding me" turns to mix it up). So I wouldn't be surprised if some out-of-state clown stepped on it after the speed limit increased to 65 outside Wilkes-Barre, then got to Hazleton and went "Oh Shit" when the visibility went to zero.
  • Reply 13 of 18
    sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flat Stanley View Post


    "Good driving is firstly about anticipation of road/traffic conditions, and being aware of everything thats going around you."



    but you can't always Sammi. Sometimes things get real bad, real fast and you are stuck in it.



    Of course, but why do so many people still ignore bad weather road hazards and keep driving as if they are looking for trouble? Driving at 70mph+ in thick fog, heavy rain or even blizzard conditions (!), 10 feet behind the vehicle in front? That's Darwin Award material, surely. Tailgating is dangerous and stupid enough even in fine weather with unlimited visibility and dry roads.... let alone anything less friendly.
  • Reply 14 of 18
    People need to be safe on the road there are people that actually want to casue a accident and want people to die in it or people are careless be like one drop of rain and BOOM! 68 car plie up this happenes a lot in Las Vegas
  • Reply 15 of 18
    mydomydo Posts: 1,888member
    I'm sure it was more than just a drop of rain.





    Like I said unless you've actually been in one of these you have no fucking clue at all. When you can use the second hand on your watch to go from, dry roads with no precipitation, to lucky if you can see the car in front of you, there's no amount of good driving tips to help you get out of it safely. There is no perfect solution.



    You can take your "people need to be situationally aware of the current and future road conditions and apply sufficient brake pedal force to decelerate their motor vehicle in a way to make to make driving conditions safe for themselves but more importantly the other drivers on the road." and shove where the snow don't blow.





    This has happened to me twice. Once with snow and once with rain. The snow one did result in a huge pile up where two highways come together. When you can't see the car in front of you you can't merge with traffic. You may not be aware that you are merging. You can't stop because that's not safe either. You can't pull over because you can't see the road. You can't exit because you can't see the exit. You can't ditch your car because you can't be sure that someone wont ditch on top of you.



    The rain one was interesting because there was literally a line on the road. No rain here, rain there (and a lot). Same situation. Not safe to stop. Not safe to pull over. Can't see exit. Not sure if the traffic coming up behind can see you or judge how fast you are going. I was able to find an exit and pull over.





    Come up with the perfect solution for when visibility goes from 1 mile to 10 feet in 60 seconds and maybe I'll read you post. Other than that ...
  • Reply 16 of 18
    sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mydo View Post


    I'm sure it was more than just a drop of rain.





    Like I said unless you've actually been in one of these you have no fucking clue at all. When you can use the second hand on your watch to go from, dry roads with no precipitation, to lucky if you can see the car in front of you, there's no amount of good driving tips to help you get out of it safely. There is no perfect solution.



    You can take your "people need to be situationally aware of the current and future road conditions and apply sufficient brake pedal force to decelerate their motor vehicle in a way to make to make driving conditions safe for themselves but more importantly the other drivers on the road." and shove where the snow don't blow.





    This has happened to me twice. Once with snow and once with rain. The snow one did result in a huge pile up where two highways come together. When you can't see the car in front of you you can't merge with traffic. You may not be aware that you are merging. You can't stop because that's not safe either. You can't pull over because you can't see the road. You can't exit because you can't see the exit. You can't ditch your car because you can't be sure that someone wont ditch on top of you.



    The rain one was interesting because there was literally a line on the road. No rain here, rain there (and a lot). Same situation. Not safe to stop. Not safe to pull over. Can't see exit. Not sure if the traffic coming up behind can see you or judge how fast you are going. I was able to find an exit and pull over.





    Come up with the perfect solution for when visibility goes from 1 mile to 10 feet in 60 seconds and maybe I'll read you post. Other than that ...



    Drivers should use their eyes, and brains, and be aware of unfolding bad weather and bad road conditions. Almost all unfolding road situations (barring unforeseen events like a rock slide, or a sinkhole forming right in front, or a bridge collapsing etc) have warning signs, and drivers should be aware enough to pick up on warning signs. The biggest problem (imho) is that so many people regard driving as an "autopilot" activity. I'm as guilty as anyone else; only this morning I was on the freeway and I was inserting a CD into the player.. and a semi truck to my right was drifting into the lane I was occupying.. another second or two fiddling with the music, with my eyes off the road.... not a pleasant thought...
  • Reply 17 of 18
    shawnjshawnj Posts: 6,656member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post


    Drivers should use their eyes, and brains, and be aware of unfolding bad weather and bad road conditions. Almost all unfolding road situations (barring unforeseen events like a rock slide, or a sinkhole forming right in front, or a bridge collapsing etc) have warning signs, and drivers should be aware enough to pick up on warning signs. The biggest problem (imho) is that so many people regard driving as an "autopilot" activity. I'm as guilty as anyone else; only this morning I was on the freeway and I was inserting a CD into the player.. and a semi truck to my right was drifting into the lane I was occupying.. another second or two fiddling with the music, with my eyes off the road.... not a pleasant thought...



    For some reason I don't picture sammijo listening to CDs, unless they are like tapes of revolution rallies.
  • Reply 18 of 18
    iposteriposter Posts: 1,560member
    What I don't understand is, why aren't car radios made to pick up the NWS weather bands? Obviously won't help in countries without that service, but they can even be made to switch from whatever is playing to the weather service when an alert is sounded. There has been many times I've been driving and sudden weather has come up, and I wished I could tune to the weather band to find out what the situation was.



    (Is the storm fast moving or here to stay, etc.)
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