Toshiba rumored to quit HD DVD as Wal-Mart pulls support

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  • Reply 41 of 312
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SeaFox View Post


    As in BluRay and HD-DVD formats had to compete against each other for customers looking to get into an HD format. This isn't that hard guys.



    The initial equipment investment and cost of movies afterwards is going to sway opinions, much like people may be interested in a certain game platform but still not buy into it because the cost of games is significantly higher than the competition.



    With only one format, that doesn't happen. If you wants to own a movie in HD, this is what you get. They can raise the price of BluRay movies easily once there's no HD-DVD to compare it too.



    In fact, I already answered this question in my original post when I mentioned PS3's being sold at a loss, making my need to explain myself even more baffling.



    I'm aware there are multiple companies making BluRay players, although you should realize right now only PS3's can be upgraded to BluRay 2.0 spec. Representatives of the BluRay consortium have pretty much admitted buying any BluRay player on the market right now except the PS3 would be a bad idea, as they all will be obsolete soon.





    So now we will have more money invested in Blu Ray 2.0 technology in which the various Blu Ray manufacturers will try to get the best mix of features that consumers' want at the best price to win the consumers dollars. You think all the manufacturers are going to get together and decide to sell all their Blu Ray players at the same price with all the same features and all that's going to be different is the name on the outside of the player? This is just round 2 of the competition on High Def players.



    I see prices declining, via competition, as now manufactures know what definite direction to go in and will invest dollars in that direction.



    The only reason I feel better that Blu Ray is winning is because Microsoft backed HD-DVD. That said, if Apple gained the share of the market that Windows has now, I think Apple would worse than Microsoft and I've been a loyal members of the Apple herd since 1987.
  • Reply 42 of 312
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Booga View Post


    No one is forced to buy a PS3. The XBox360 is a perfectly adequate machine and even has an HD DVD option. And there are definitely plans for games that take advantage of storage of more than the 4GB that DVD provides on the PS3.



    No, that was pretty forward-looking of Sony. At the time the decision was derided as suicidal, but in retrospect it looks like they made the right move in all their technical decisions.



    Getting flattened in world-wide sales largely due to a high launch price is a great tech decision? Please. And the dual-layer DVDs of the 360 and Wii provide 9 GB of data. Not 4. Very few games would need more. And generally the only ones that will need to are the ones with garbage CGI movies trying to tie a 'plot' together. There are some mighty fine compression technologies out there - you might not know, but Star Wars: Rebel Strike on the GCN, made by Factor 5, contained not only 2 whole games, both with outstanding audio and graphics, but also DVD clips running with no loss in quality from the pure DVD versions. Not bad for 1.5 GB, huh?



    Maybe in another year or two you will be damn right. And for next-gen, sure. But having 'plans' for games to use more doesn't mean they should, or even need to.
  • Reply 43 of 312
    hobbithobbit Posts: 532member
    The reason why Blu Ray won is that it got bundled with every Playstation 3. That was the single clever move by Sony that eventually would tip the scales. And as was said before Sony sold below cost to achieve that.

    XBox had HD DVD but only optional. Has anyone actual figures how many PS3 were sold over Christmas vs. XBox + HD DVD? It'll be vastly more PS3 systems.



    Has not so much to do with player promotions. If a major game console has Blu Ray players bundled in it is only a matter of time that format reaches critical mass. Unless that game console as a whole falters. But no one really expected Playstation to fail in the long run.



    A lot of consumers would get a new Playstation, and once they have it, they will stick to Blu Ray, as this saves them having to buy another player.

    Many of my friends got PS3s for gaming and ended up 'hooked' on Blu Ray.



    One could argue whether this actually is consumer choice or not. If there would have been a PS3 with either Blu Ray or HD DVD then this would have been 'choice'. But without it you end up choosing between Blu Ray or no Playstation, or Playstation plus extra expense for another HD DVD player. Not such a great choice IMHO.



    Toshiba's one big mistake was that they had nothing comparable to offer. If they had handed HD DVD players below cost to Microsoft for bundling with every XBox then perhaps HD DVD would have had a chance.
  • Reply 44 of 312
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,427member
    what pushed the retailers and studios to br was the pressure from downloads, apple tv and netflix they needed to quickly get to a format so consumers don't miss another buying year every delay in the format wars cost the studios and retailers sooooo they want consumers to jump to a format before they jump to downloads. it was apple and netflix that's competing with physical media



    for me i l like dvd my kids watch dvd, it's easy rentable, buyable, downloads are coming up fast and will adopt that before i get a br player and the studios/ retailers know this. the future is NOT physical media for movies.



    now i like br for a storage format but hd's are sooooo cheap and huge that it's becoming a living dinosaur.
  • Reply 45 of 312
    hobbithobbit Posts: 532member
    NOFEER, that's exactly what I hear from a lot of my friends as well.



    They say DVD's adequate and since they've waited for so long for a winner in HD - Blu Ray war, they might as well wait a bit longer and go online instead.

    Apple TV take2 is a really strong first product. And from what I read their HD movies easily surpass DVD quality - even though it uses higher compression rates.

    Still has flaws, not too many movies to choose yet and is not available worldwide, but if done right will eventually push any high definition DVD medium out the window for most uses.



    It will still exist but probably only for your top favorite movies to collect. But all others you'd rent online - while before you might have picked them up in physical form from a DVD rental, the sales shelf or bargain bin.
  • Reply 46 of 312
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by greglo View Post


    Very few games would need more.





    Didn't Bill gates say something similar about not needing more than 640K of RAM ??
  • Reply 47 of 312
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SeaFox View Post


    As in BluRay and HD-DVD formats had to compete against each other for customers looking to get into an HD format. This isn't that hard guys.



    With only one format, that doesn't happen. If you wants to own a movie in HD, this is what you get. They can raise the price of BluRay movies easily once there's no HD-DVD to compare it too.



    Give me a break. This kind of false reasoning has been debunked time and time again. There is competition far beyond HD DVD and far more dangerous. It's called DVD. If they keep the prices high, people simply won't buy players and discs, opting for the DVD players they already own and cheaper SD discs. Also, one format begets higher prices? I guess we should have kept DIVX around, then, since obviously DVD having the market to itself was a bad idea, eh?



    Quote:

    In fact, I already answered this question in my original post when I mentioned PS3's being sold at a loss, making my need to explain myself even more baffling.



    Same old blinders-on Toshiba fan. Read the Hollywood Reporter article. Note where it says, "But in the end, sources say, the substantial loss Toshiba is incurring with each HD DVD player sold -- a figure sources say could be as high as several hundred dollars..." You point the finger at Sony but conveniently ignore Toshiba selling at a loss. And are all the other Blu-ray player manufacturers also selling at a loss? Part of the reason companies went with Blu-ray was because they could sell players at a profit. Nobody wanted to make HD DVD because Toshiba was underpricing their own players so much that anybody who wanted to compete would have had to lose money too. Other companies just have no incentive to do that.



    Quote:

    I'm aware there are multiple companies making BluRay players, although you should realize right now only PS3's can be upgraded to BluRay 2.0 spec. Representatives of the BluRay consortium have pretty much admitted buying any BluRay player on the market right now except the PS3 would be a bad idea, as they all will be obsolete soon.



    "Obsolete." That is total BS. Here's what CNET had to say: "Profile 1.1 players certainly don't make older Profile 1.0 players obsolete. While movie enthusiasts lust over special features and commentary tracks, many people are completely uninterested in investing even more time in a movie. If you already have a Profile 1.0 player, it should be able to play all the new Profile 1.1 discs without a problem--you just won't be access to some of the special features. The same logic applies to Profile 2.0--you don't need to wait unless you want to be able to access the Internet-enabled features on the new discs." Stop trying to spread your FUD around here. Murch tried that for two years and now even he's admitting HD DVD is dead as a doornail.
  • Reply 48 of 312
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Royboy View Post


    No consumer was forced to buy a PS3. They bought the PS3 because of the excellent price considering it has a Blu Ray player in it. Sony was better at marketing this time around. Wasn't there another major game system with a HD-DVD player in it? Choices! Choices! And the consumers spoke with their dollars.



    idiot... PS3 is a miserable failure. It trails far, far, far behind the Wii and even the xBox 360! Yes, the consumers made a choice, and PS3 w/ blu-ray was OBVISOULY not it! Blu-ray bundled with PS3 is a moot point, since PS3 barely even made a ripple in the consumer markets for both consoles and hd media players. Nobody buys blu-ray players, just like nobody buys PS3s. Sony is in such a bad financial state with blunders like the PS3 that its in danger of going bankrupt, possibly. This is not the mighty Sony we once knew, not even a shadow.



    The PS3 and Blu-ray to a certain extent are almost complete failures...unless of course, that is, you live in either fantasyland or fanboy world!



    also, Blu-ray won't even matter in a few years. By the time it gains any significant ground, if it does, it will be obsolete and bow to iPods, the internet, networking, and streaming.
  • Reply 49 of 312
    bsenkabsenka Posts: 799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post


    While movie enthusiasts lust over special features and commentary tracks, many people are completely uninterested in investing even more time in a movie.



    Except for those special features, there's no reason to want to buy or rent a retail disc.
  • Reply 50 of 312
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    Except for those special features, there's no reason to want to buy or rent a retail disc.



    Why would you say that?
  • Reply 51 of 312
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    Except for those special features, there's no reason to want to buy or rent a retail disc.



    Yeah. Okay. Good luck downloading 50GB movies over Bittorrent. Yo ho ho, and all that.



    I love the headlines this morning. Reuters: Wal-Mart picks Blu-ray in HD DVD Disaster. Other reports from NHK say Toshiba will lose hundreds of millions of dollars as it finally lets go of HD DVD and stops production. Toshiba gambled and they lost big.
  • Reply 52 of 312
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rain View Post


    Awesome, now the hacker community knows where to focus it's efforts.



    YES PLEASSEEEEE
  • Reply 53 of 312
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post


    idiot... PS3 is a miserable failure. It trails far, far, far behind the Wii and even the xBox 360! ....



    I bought Orange Box (Valve) for PC recently and I have been pretty impressed with Steam. I have been ready to do it whole of last year but getting a PS3 is just not adding up right now.



    And believe it or not, as long as you do *EVERYTHING* else on a Mac, PC for gaming is quite alright.
  • Reply 54 of 312
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post


    idiot... PS3 is a miserable failure. It trails far, far, far behind the Wii and even the xBox 360! Yes, the consumers made a choice, and PS3 w/ blu-ray was OBVISOULY not it! Blu-ray bundled with PS3 is a moot point, since PS3 barely even made a ripple in the consumer markets for both consoles and hd media players. Nobody buys blu-ray players, just like nobody buys PS3s. Sony is in such a bad financial state with blunders like the PS3 that its in danger of going bankrupt, possibly. This is not the mighty Sony we once knew, not even a shadow.



    The PS3 and Blu-ray to a certain extent are almost complete failures...unless of course, that is, you live in either fantasyland or fanboy world!



    also, Blu-ray won't even matter in a few years. By the time it gains any significant ground, if it does, it will be obsolete and bow to iPods, the internet, networking, and streaming.



    Oh no. Not another person who believes America=the world.



    Care to compare the popularity of PS3 in America to the popularity of 360 anywhere else? Which one is the real failure?
  • Reply 55 of 312
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member
    You're taking him seriously? He's obviously either insane or completely ignorant. Maybe both. "Nobody" buys Blu-ray or PS3. Sony going bankrupt. Yeah, right. Ignore him. Everybody else did.
  • Reply 56 of 312
    I picked up a brand new, unused (still sealed in the internal wrappings but marked as "open box") Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player in Best Buy on Wednesday for $89, which included the two free movies inside and the rebate for 5 more HD DVDs when I checked out.



    With all the support gone, I expect films in HD DVD format to be plunging in price all over the net and store shelves. I can pick up the discounted films I want in that format, and when competition drives BR disc players down, I can get one of those. And the upconverting improvement on my existing library is dramatic. While there is an obvious clarity in the HD format missing for 480i DVDs, the improvement is so good that I have no qualms about continuing to buy films I want to own and watch in the old DVD format for 1/4 or 1/3 the price of HD. After all, some films don't need high definition to be good.



    All said, waiting for one format to die before I bought in was a good choice for me.
  • Reply 57 of 312
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zanshin View Post


    And the upconverting improvement on my existing library is dramatic. While there is an obvious clarity in the HD format missing for 480i DVDs, the improvement is so good that I have no qualms about continuing to buy films I want to own and watch in the old DVD format for 1/4 or 1/3 the price of HD. After all, some films don't need high definition to be good.



    Most movie DVDs are effectively encoded at 480p. It's the TV shows that are usually encoded at 480i.



    Catalog DVDs are usually a lot cheaper than the HD re-releases, but new releases aren't that much more expensive in HD media vs DVD. That's why the studios are usually focussing on new releases for HD movies, catalog re-releases don't seem to sell as well, I think largely for that reason.
  • Reply 58 of 312
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    The conflict between high-definition disc formats is rapidly drawing to a close,?



    CNET's Quick Guide: HD DVD vd. Blu-ray



    A very good review, one that a number of people should read. Explains a lot.



    http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-13817_7-6462511-1.html
  • Reply 59 of 312
    mystmyst Posts: 112member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post


    idiot... PS3 is a miserable failure. It trails far, far, far behind the Wii and even the xBox 360!



    Time to update you're opinion:



    http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/p...console-sales/

    http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/04/e...sales-in-2008/
  • Reply 60 of 312
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    The one thing that helps take the sting out of one of these formats losing is the fact that both formats respective players are excellent upscaling DVD players. That couldn't be said for Laserdsic or Beta players.



    How could either upscale a DVD?
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