First, Apple TV is NOT true HD. Second, with the bandwidth required for downloading 25 to 50GB (which a Blu-Ray can hold,) it will take forever, even with the best download speeds available now or in the forseeable future.
Now the only question, when is Apple going to put a Blu-Ray burner in iMacs and MacPros so we can do 50GB backups and author/master our own Blu-Ray discs?...
1) Define HD. AppleTV Tech Specs state it can do "Up to 5 Mbps, Progressive Main Profile (CAVLC) with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 1280 by 720 pixels at 24 fps." That sounds like HD to me.
2) When you say "Apple TV is NOT true HD" are you referring to the device or to the iTS HD downloadable media? They are different. If you mean the latter, that would be like saying the iPod can't do "CD quality" audio because iTS audio is 128kbps, even though iTS HD is HD, even though it's not HD optical media quality.
3) Forever, while a commonly used hyperbolism, isn't the best choice for any argument, especially in a technical forum.
50GB x 8 = 400Gb = 409,600Mb
409,600Mb ÷ 3Mb/s transfer rate = 136,533secs (rounded)
4) You can already buy internal and external 3rd-party burners for Macs. I know Toast Titanium already has built in authoring for this drives. The one thing you can't do is play DRM'd media.
Millions wasted because they couldn't agree on one standard as they did with DVD.
Oh, and Apple's crappy low-bit downloads are not true-HD. Why? Because of compression. Too much compression. Besides, I will not settle for anything less than 1080p. Apple TV only supports 720p upconverted to 1080p.
I'm glad it's over. Bring on cheaper blu-ray movies and players.
Millions wasted because they couldn't agree on one standard as they did with DVD.
I agree that the whole HD transition has been a complete clusterfark in a multitude of ways. Just wait for the s***storm we'll inevitably see when they shut off analog NTSC broadcasting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh
Oh, and Apple's crappy low-bit downloads are not true-HD.
Again, there's no such thing as "true HD". As crappy as you think it is, it still falls under HD along with crappy cable and broadcast HD.
They absolutely are HD. Your beef is with the guys who set the HD standards and didn't set minimum specs to use the term.
Millions wasted because they couldn't agree on one standard as they did with DVD.
Oh, and Apple's crappy low-bit downloads are not true-HD. Why? Because of compression. Too much compression. Besides, I will not settle for anything less than 1080p. Apple TV only supports 720p upconverted to 1080p.
I'm glad it's over. Bring on cheaper blu-ray movies and players.
Cool. Can you point me to this industry definition that defines the minimum bitrate for HD media. I've looked and I just can't seem to find it.
Well, it's not that much of a "win" for Sony, since SJ already declared all optical media is antiquated. Apple TV already has 720 HD video for download.. wont be that long before higher resolutions are possible as well.
The HD from AppleTV IS in fact HD quality. (and better than Comcast HD!)
And are you telling me that a BluRay disc takes 50GB to hold just a movie???!! Or is it a movie, extras, outtakes, menus, etc...
...So downloading a higher resolution HD movie WILL come to pass, and BlueRay will pass as well.
You mean the same Steve Jobs who stated nobody wants to watch video on their iPod? The same Steve Jobs running Apple Inc. that now only offers one model of iPod that doesn't play video?
Sorry, Jobs is just your typical con man. He'll say whatever is in his best interest at the time. I guess if Steve said breathing oxygen was antiquated we could expect to find you dead from suffocation the next morning.
Well, it's not that much of a "win" for Sony, since SJ already declared all optical media is antiquated.
Stevie is likely jumping the gun on that by a few years... something he tends to do. Remember the "Year of HD" he declared awhile back?
And of course, his declarations about many things are colored by what he himself has available to sell at any given time. Which is as it should be, if he's watching out for Apple's bottom line at all times.
For myself, I predict that Blu-Ray will have a very nice 5-year run or so as a format. Blu-Ray's successor in physical media may end up being shoved aside by downloads, but I don't get the feeling that'll happen to Blu-Ray... I see BR and dloads co-existing happily during BR's run.
Movie dloading is just too early in it's infancy, and there's a lot of inertia and infrastructure behind the ol' disc-based format. Some of it is entrenched consumer mindsets that take awhile to change.
Don't be so smug. It'll be good riddance Blu-ray sooner than you think. Now that Apple has downloadable HD movies , this is only the beginning.
Right - I'll just pipe in that 50 gig file on my Comast connection quicker than quick. Get REAL. Perhaps if everyone had an OC3 line - but you're dreaming pal. Do the downloads even have all the extras at the moment? What - did you get burned by siding with the Sony is teh EV!L camp?
"Suckers" could be the word that effectively describes people who make emotional and group-think based decisions rather than looking at hard-considerations.
Let me guess - you also went to see Snakes on a Plane and had high hopes for Ron Paul. Teh Interwebs ain't life. Get over it.
Right - I'll just pipe in that 50 gig file on my Comast connection quicker than quick. Get REAL. Perhaps if everyone had an OC3 line - but you're dreaming pal. Do the downloads even have all the extras at the moment? What - did you get burned by siding with the Sony is teh EV!L camp?
Sucker.
Let me guess - you also went to see Snakes on a Plane and had high hopes for Ron Paul. Teh Interwebs ain't life. Get over it.
I bet you still own a SOny betamax,minidisc, memory stick and UMD too. You'll see in 5 years when compression and connection are way beyond what your tiny brain can ever imagine.
Besides, I will not settle for anything less than 1080p.
You mean you're ONLY watching standard definition television because you're waiting for everything to be 1080p? Cuz that's insane -- there's a lot of good stuff available that's 720p and 1080i, and it's a lot better than standard def.
Unless, of course, you mean you'll settle for anything less part of the time for the programming you rent by the month, but not for discs you plan to own.
I bet you still own a SOny betamax,minidisc, memory stick and UMD too. You'll see in 5 years when compression and connection are way beyond what your tiny brain can ever imagine.
LOSER.
Don't get banned like that mdotdubz guy (or whatever his name was) just yesterday.
All he did was call ppl idiot and loser, nothing worse, but he did it consistently enough to get his ass canned by the mods. My guess is that "tiny brain" and loser will get it done for you too, if you keep it up.
You mean you're ONLY watching standard definition television because you're waiting for everything to be 1080p? Cuz that's insane -- there's a lot of good stuff available that's 720p and 1080i, and it's a lot better than standard def.
I'm certain the peopel that say this are the ones that were waiting for 720p a decade ago and will be waiting for Ultra High Definition Video once 1080p is the norm. Check out the image, it makes 1080p look likeiPod Nano resolution.
You fought a good fight, Toshiba. Your consumer players were technically superior from day 1, offering picture-in-picture support, ethernet connectivity, and advanced interactivity....something that no Blu-Ray player even came close to doing until October 07 (and even then, only a single player--the Panasonic BD30).
You offered a superior product at a lower price (even before all the deep discounts leading up to Xmas), but unfortunately, Sony's Playstation 3 trojan horse strategy put considerably more Blu-Ray players in the market, which led to considerably higher Blu-Ray disc sales, which led to Warner's decision to go Blu-Ray exclusive, which led to the Netflix, Best-Buy and Walmart defections, which led to the death in the format.
Had Microsoft built HD-DVD in the Xbox 360, this story would have ended a different way...
I'm not tech-spec qualified to vouch for superiority of one format over another, but the one thing that was decidedly in Toshiba's favor in the early days was the HUGE point that HD DVDs could be manufactured in existing DVD manufacturing facilities, with little change in the lines and equipment investment; Blu-Ray supposedly required a new plant process altogether. I wish I had a dollar for every discussion I heard about how the major studios would favor the cheaper and faster delivery of existing multi-plant manufacturing over huge investment and startup costs of a single Blu-Ray production facility.
I'm certain the peopel that say this are the ones that were waiting for 720p a decade ago and will be waiting for Ultra High Definition Video once 1080p is the norm. Check out the image, it makes 1080p look likeiPod Nano resolution.
You mean the same Steve Jobs who stated nobody wants to watch video on their iPod? The same Steve Jobs running Apple Inc. that now only offers one model of iPod that doesn't play video?
Sorry, Jobs is just your typical con man. He'll say whatever is in his best interest at the time. I guess if Steve said breathing oxygen was antiquated we could expect to find you dead from suffocation the next morning.
You don't HAVE to be such a troll, do you? I don't guess it's ever occurred to you that Steve Jobs is simply a man who speaks his mind. He's strongly opinionated, and he's not shy of throwing his opinions around. He's successful NOT because he's a con man, but because his insights are usually extraordinary.
However.
Unlike the psycho you seem to think he is, he also pays very sharp attention to the market. He said he didn't think people wanted to watch video on a tiny screen. I imagine he believed it. Hell, so did I. But a ton of people were running around saying that they DID want to watch video on an iPod. So Apple made one.
Why has have you got to draw such asinine and frankly loony conclusions like "I guess if Steve said breathing oxygen was antiquated we could expect to find you dead from suffocation the next morning"??
He's also made statements about downloads vs Blu-Ray. He might be wrong. But he's right more than he's wrong. That's the reason people are fans of Apple. Not because of some creepy cult thing. But because Apple does really cool things, with innovations that go far deeper than just eye-candy.
If you don't get that, fine. You don't get it. But you don't need to get snotty about it. There's enough of that going around, these days.
... Steve Jobs is simply a man who speaks his mind. He's strongly opinionated, and he's not shy of throwing his opinions around. He's successful NOT because he's a con man, but because his insights are usually extraordinary.. ... he also pays very sharp attention to the market. He said he didn't think people wanted to watch video on a tiny screen. I imagine he believed it. Hell, so did I. But a ton of people were running around saying that they DID want to watch video on an iPod. So Apple made one.
He's also made statements about downloads vs Blu-Ray. He might be wrong. But he's right more than he's wrong. That's the reason people are fans of Apple. Because Apple does really cool things, with innovations that go far deeper than just eye-candy.
...but I still haven't forgiven him for thinking the hockey-puck mouse that came with the Bondi-blue G3 PM was a good idea...
You don't HAVE to be such a troll, do you? I don't guess it's ever occurred to you that Steve Jobs is simply a man who speaks his mind. He's strongly opinionated, and he's not shy of throwing his opinions around. He's successful NOT because he's a con man, but because his insights are usually extraordinary.
Troll? He was making a valid point. While I wouldn't go as far as calling Jobs a con man, there's no question that he spins apple's present product line as all consumers will ever need. Until apple ships a product, he insists that consumers don't want it and that apple will never do it.
His forward looking statements about products simply can't be taken seriously - they are made to maximize sales, not speak the truth.
...but I still haven't forgiven him for thinking the hockey-puck mouse that came with the Bondi-blue G3 PM was a good idea...
LOL. It was really cute, until you started mousing around and realized you had the damned thing sideways in your hand. I've always liked to imagine if the hockey-puck had turned out to be popular. Imagine a hockey-puck Mighty Mouse!
Comments
First, Apple TV is NOT true HD.
There's no such thing as "true HD". There are a bunch of things that fall under the HD umbrella, they defined the standard in a pretty loose way.
Is it lower bitrate and resolution than bluray? Sure. But the term "true HD" is meaningless.
First, Apple TV is NOT true HD. Second, with the bandwidth required for downloading 25 to 50GB (which a Blu-Ray can hold,) it will take forever, even with the best download speeds available now or in the forseeable future.
Now the only question, when is Apple going to put a Blu-Ray burner in iMacs and MacPros so we can do 50GB backups and author/master our own Blu-Ray discs?...
1) Define HD. AppleTV Tech Specs state it can do "Up to 5 Mbps, Progressive Main Profile (CAVLC) with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 1280 by 720 pixels at 24 fps." That sounds like HD to me.
2) When you say "Apple TV is NOT true HD" are you referring to the device or to the iTS HD downloadable media? They are different. If you mean the latter, that would be like saying the iPod can't do "CD quality" audio because iTS audio is 128kbps, even though iTS HD is HD, even though it's not HD optical media quality.
3) Forever, while a commonly used hyperbolism, isn't the best choice for any argument, especially in a technical forum.4) You can already buy internal and external 3rd-party burners for Macs. I know Toast Titanium already has built in authoring for this drives. The one thing you can't do is play DRM'd media.
Oh, and Apple's crappy low-bit downloads are not true-HD. Why? Because of compression. Too much compression. Besides, I will not settle for anything less than 1080p. Apple TV only supports 720p upconverted to 1080p.
I'm glad it's over. Bring on cheaper blu-ray movies and players.
Millions wasted because they couldn't agree on one standard as they did with DVD.
I agree that the whole HD transition has been a complete clusterfark in a multitude of ways. Just wait for the s***storm we'll inevitably see when they shut off analog NTSC broadcasting.
Oh, and Apple's crappy low-bit downloads are not true-HD.
Again, there's no such thing as "true HD". As crappy as you think it is, it still falls under HD along with crappy cable and broadcast HD.
They absolutely are HD. Your beef is with the guys who set the HD standards and didn't set minimum specs to use the term.
Millions wasted because they couldn't agree on one standard as they did with DVD.
Oh, and Apple's crappy low-bit downloads are not true-HD. Why? Because of compression. Too much compression. Besides, I will not settle for anything less than 1080p. Apple TV only supports 720p upconverted to 1080p.
I'm glad it's over. Bring on cheaper blu-ray movies and players.
Cool. Can you point me to this industry definition that defines the minimum bitrate for HD media. I've looked and I just can't seem to find it.
Well, it's not that much of a "win" for Sony, since SJ already declared all optical media is antiquated. Apple TV already has 720 HD video for download.. wont be that long before higher resolutions are possible as well.
The HD from AppleTV IS in fact HD quality. (and better than Comcast HD!)
And are you telling me that a BluRay disc takes 50GB to hold just a movie???!! Or is it a movie, extras, outtakes, menus, etc...
...So downloading a higher resolution HD movie WILL come to pass, and BlueRay will pass as well.
You mean the same Steve Jobs who stated nobody wants to watch video on their iPod? The same Steve Jobs running Apple Inc. that now only offers one model of iPod that doesn't play video?
Sorry, Jobs is just your typical con man. He'll say whatever is in his best interest at the time. I guess if Steve said breathing oxygen was antiquated we could expect to find you dead from suffocation the next morning.
Well, it's not that much of a "win" for Sony, since SJ already declared all optical media is antiquated.
Stevie is likely jumping the gun on that by a few years... something he tends to do. Remember the "Year of HD" he declared awhile back?
And of course, his declarations about many things are colored by what he himself has available to sell at any given time. Which is as it should be, if he's watching out for Apple's bottom line at all times.
For myself, I predict that Blu-Ray will have a very nice 5-year run or so as a format. Blu-Ray's successor in physical media may end up being shoved aside by downloads, but I don't get the feeling that'll happen to Blu-Ray... I see BR and dloads co-existing happily during BR's run.
Movie dloading is just too early in it's infancy, and there's a lot of inertia and infrastructure behind the ol' disc-based format. Some of it is entrenched consumer mindsets that take awhile to change.
.
Don't be so smug. It'll be good riddance Blu-ray sooner than you think. Now that Apple has downloadable HD movies , this is only the beginning.
Right - I'll just pipe in that 50 gig file on my Comast connection quicker than quick. Get REAL. Perhaps if everyone had an OC3 line - but you're dreaming pal. Do the downloads even have all the extras at the moment? What - did you get burned by siding with the Sony is teh EV!L camp?
"Suckers" could be the word that effectively describes people who make emotional and group-think based decisions rather than looking at hard-considerations.
Let me guess - you also went to see Snakes on a Plane and had high hopes for Ron Paul. Teh Interwebs ain't life. Get over it.
Right - I'll just pipe in that 50 gig file on my Comast connection quicker than quick. Get REAL. Perhaps if everyone had an OC3 line - but you're dreaming pal. Do the downloads even have all the extras at the moment? What - did you get burned by siding with the Sony is teh EV!L camp?
Sucker.
Let me guess - you also went to see Snakes on a Plane and had high hopes for Ron Paul. Teh Interwebs ain't life. Get over it.
I bet you still own a SOny betamax,minidisc, memory stick and UMD too. You'll see in 5 years when compression and connection are way beyond what your tiny brain can ever imagine.
LOSER.
Besides, I will not settle for anything less than 1080p.
You mean you're ONLY watching standard definition television because you're waiting for everything to be 1080p? Cuz that's insane -- there's a lot of good stuff available that's 720p and 1080i, and it's a lot better than standard def.
Unless, of course, you mean you'll settle for anything less part of the time for the programming you rent by the month, but not for discs you plan to own.
I bet you still own a SOny betamax,minidisc, memory stick and UMD too. You'll see in 5 years when compression and connection are way beyond what your tiny brain can ever imagine.
LOSER.
Don't get banned like that mdotdubz guy (or whatever his name was) just yesterday.
All he did was call ppl idiot and loser, nothing worse, but he did it consistently enough to get his ass canned by the mods. My guess is that "tiny brain" and loser will get it done for you too, if you keep it up.
Not hating, just watchin' out for ya.
.
You mean you're ONLY watching standard definition television because you're waiting for everything to be 1080p? Cuz that's insane -- there's a lot of good stuff available that's 720p and 1080i, and it's a lot better than standard def.
I'm certain the peopel that say this are the ones that were waiting for 720p a decade ago and will be waiting for Ultra High Definition Video once 1080p is the norm. Check out the image, it makes 1080p look likeiPod Nano resolution.
You fought a good fight, Toshiba. Your consumer players were technically superior from day 1, offering picture-in-picture support, ethernet connectivity, and advanced interactivity....something that no Blu-Ray player even came close to doing until October 07 (and even then, only a single player--the Panasonic BD30).
You offered a superior product at a lower price (even before all the deep discounts leading up to Xmas), but unfortunately, Sony's Playstation 3 trojan horse strategy put considerably more Blu-Ray players in the market, which led to considerably higher Blu-Ray disc sales, which led to Warner's decision to go Blu-Ray exclusive, which led to the Netflix, Best-Buy and Walmart defections, which led to the death in the format.
Had Microsoft built HD-DVD in the Xbox 360, this story would have ended a different way...
I'm not tech-spec qualified to vouch for superiority of one format over another, but the one thing that was decidedly in Toshiba's favor in the early days was the HUGE point that HD DVDs could be manufactured in existing DVD manufacturing facilities, with little change in the lines and equipment investment; Blu-Ray supposedly required a new plant process altogether. I wish I had a dollar for every discussion I heard about how the major studios would favor the cheaper and faster delivery of existing multi-plant manufacturing over huge investment and startup costs of a single Blu-Ray production facility.
I guess that didn't turn out.
I'm certain the peopel that say this are the ones that were waiting for 720p a decade ago and will be waiting for Ultra High Definition Video once 1080p is the norm. Check out the image, it makes 1080p look likeiPod Nano resolution.
UHDV: the RED camera http://www.red.com/cameras/technology
You mean the same Steve Jobs who stated nobody wants to watch video on their iPod? The same Steve Jobs running Apple Inc. that now only offers one model of iPod that doesn't play video?
Sorry, Jobs is just your typical con man. He'll say whatever is in his best interest at the time. I guess if Steve said breathing oxygen was antiquated we could expect to find you dead from suffocation the next morning.
You don't HAVE to be such a troll, do you? I don't guess it's ever occurred to you that Steve Jobs is simply a man who speaks his mind. He's strongly opinionated, and he's not shy of throwing his opinions around. He's successful NOT because he's a con man, but because his insights are usually extraordinary.
However.
Unlike the psycho you seem to think he is, he also pays very sharp attention to the market. He said he didn't think people wanted to watch video on a tiny screen. I imagine he believed it. Hell, so did I. But a ton of people were running around saying that they DID want to watch video on an iPod. So Apple made one.
Why has have you got to draw such asinine and frankly loony conclusions like "I guess if Steve said breathing oxygen was antiquated we could expect to find you dead from suffocation the next morning"??
He's also made statements about downloads vs Blu-Ray. He might be wrong. But he's right more than he's wrong. That's the reason people are fans of Apple. Not because of some creepy cult thing. But because Apple does really cool things, with innovations that go far deeper than just eye-candy.
If you don't get that, fine. You don't get it. But you don't need to get snotty about it. There's enough of that going around, these days.
... Steve Jobs is simply a man who speaks his mind. He's strongly opinionated, and he's not shy of throwing his opinions around. He's successful NOT because he's a con man, but because his insights are usually extraordinary.. ... he also pays very sharp attention to the market. He said he didn't think people wanted to watch video on a tiny screen. I imagine he believed it. Hell, so did I. But a ton of people were running around saying that they DID want to watch video on an iPod. So Apple made one.
He's also made statements about downloads vs Blu-Ray. He might be wrong. But he's right more than he's wrong. That's the reason people are fans of Apple. Because Apple does really cool things, with innovations that go far deeper than just eye-candy.
...but I still haven't forgiven him for thinking the hockey-puck mouse that came with the Bondi-blue G3 PM was a good idea...
UHDV: the RED camera http://www.red.com/cameras/technology
Good God. 4520 X 2540. I'd heard about this.
Does anybody know the answer to this: when somebody like George Lucas films a movie in digital, what resolution are they filming? Is this it?
You don't HAVE to be such a troll, do you? I don't guess it's ever occurred to you that Steve Jobs is simply a man who speaks his mind. He's strongly opinionated, and he's not shy of throwing his opinions around. He's successful NOT because he's a con man, but because his insights are usually extraordinary.
Troll? He was making a valid point. While I wouldn't go as far as calling Jobs a con man, there's no question that he spins apple's present product line as all consumers will ever need. Until apple ships a product, he insists that consumers don't want it and that apple will never do it.
His forward looking statements about products simply can't be taken seriously - they are made to maximize sales, not speak the truth.
...but I still haven't forgiven him for thinking the hockey-puck mouse that came with the Bondi-blue G3 PM was a good idea...
LOL. It was really cute, until you started mousing around and realized you had the damned thing sideways in your hand.
Besides, I will not settle for anything less than 1080p.
How big is your screen and how far away from it do you sit when watching video content?