Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2008)

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  • Reply 1401 of 2639
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    How Microsoft can steal console marketshare from Nintendo and Sony while hurting Apple's revenue?



    I propose MS add dual HD tuners to their 360 as an external device option. The 3 G5 PPC processors trump any other DVR processing power. The input for the HD-DVD player is now a defunct input for most people and the HD-DVD optical disc bandwidth far exceeds that of cable HD.



    MS could offer free program updates from Windows Live subscribers. This would increase Live subscribership and also keep subscriptions active for those who have fallen out of gaming.



    They could encode it using Windows Media DRM that is tied to your Live account. While easily removed, it would offer a level of protection that would suffice many studios who were upset with MS' position to allow the coping and timeshifting of their content. MS could then allow this to be moved to your windows PC and even the five of you who bought Zunes.



    This would also hurt Apple in their iTunes Store sales and possibly affect the adoption rate of AppleTV, since a built-in tuner is one of its more sought after options that will never come to fruition.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jsteinmann View Post


    If Sony owns it, it won't be the big winner in the end. Sony always puts the patented "only our systems can use it" stamp on everything they do.... just look at anything they make. It ultimately irritates the consumer market and they go with other products. HD DVD will win this battle in my opinion.



    Sony has been an industry leader with their WalkMans, Trinitron and BRAVIA products. I'm sure there are more. How can HD-DVD win? What is their secret weapon? What is Blu-ray's Achilles' heel?
  • Reply 1402 of 2639
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post


    I have to wonder at the advice to "wait" for the prices to come down from these Pro HD-DVD people, did they "wait" for HD-DVD prices to fall?



    Yep. $180 for me. And that got me all of the features of the format, not just the ones that were implemented at the time.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post


    Funny, the few of us who believed "no chance" all along were derided, ah well, sometimes its hard being right, when everyone else thinks your wrong



    Oh, poor victimized Walter



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post


    There wont be any need, your proprietary format is dead, as you were told it would be.



    Good thing I never had much emotional investment in the success of a format; if Blu-Ray had gone down instead of HD DVD I don't think you or Marzetta could have ever loved again.
  • Reply 1403 of 2639
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jimmac View Post


    And you know what? Despite all of this I hope BR recovers and takes the market. But it's got alot of work ahead of it. Prices, titles, and good PR etc.



    Recovers? I wasn't aware it was in trouble. Jeez, its a young format doing almost as well as DVD was and WTF? WALMART is carrying the damned thing. Does anyone here really believe that Walmart is going to carry a niche product they don't expect their core demographic to buy in sufficient quantity to warrant the shelf space?



    Only HD-DVD zealots that are unhappy their format lost.
  • Reply 1404 of 2639
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post


    Neither is slavishly following history.







    It had Han shooting first ???



    Yes, I do have that copy of Star Wars.
  • Reply 1405 of 2639
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Recovers? I wasn't aware it was in trouble. Jeez, its a young format doing almost as well as DVD was and WTF? WALMART is carrying the damned thing. Does anyone here really believe that Walmart is going to carry a niche product they don't expect their core demographic to buy in sufficient quantity to warrant the shelf space?



    Only HD-DVD zealots that are unhappy their format lost.



    It's doing better than DVD on sale to sale comparisons of players and titles. And the prices are also much lower than DVD after this long in the game. Note, that Blu-ray titles are at around 600 and they were first released in late June of 2006.
  • Reply 1406 of 2639
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jsteinmann View Post


    HD DVD will win this battle in my opinion.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post


    ...your proprietary format is dead, as you were told it would be.



    What on earth? Has everyone suddenly taken leave of their senses?
  • Reply 1407 of 2639
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jsteinmann View Post


    HD DVD will win this battle in my opinion.



    You made me spray coffee all over my keyboard. When you post something like that there really should be a warning of sorts...







    ps - where's that pic of th Black Knight fighting Arthur?
  • Reply 1408 of 2639
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    ps - where's that pic of th Black Knight fighting Arthur?



    King Arthur: "Look, you stupid Bastard. You've got no [studios] left."

    Black Knight: "Yes I have."

    King Arthur: "*Look*!"

    Black Knight: "It's just a flesh wound."

  • Reply 1409 of 2639
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    It's doing better than DVD on sale to sale comparisons of players and titles. And the prices are also much lower than DVD after this long in the game. Note, that Blu-ray titles are at around 600 and they were first released in late June of 2006.



    It somewhat harder to compare because the PS3 is skewing the numbers more in favor of the console adoption than standalone. The expectation is for 10M PS3 sales in 2008 means that it beats DVD numbers (4M player sales 1999) if Sony hits this goal since the PS2 wouldn't have hit the market in numbers in the same time frame.



    But somehow, this format that has already outsold LD, which is carried by Walmart, supported by a large number of CE vendors, movie studios and computer companies and is guaranteed greater market penetration than the PS3, is somehow going to end up niche like LD that never got above 2% penetration (2M units) in the US over 20 YEARS (1978-1998)



    Riiiight. Because the numbers really support that projection...jimmac isn't looking for data that doesn't fit his worldview that blu-ray is somehow needs to "recover" from some imagined "bad taste" in the mouth of consumers. Jeez, 99% of consumers were probably unaware there was a format war in the first place and of the few that were aware most stayed away until there was a winner.



    Which there now is.
  • Reply 1410 of 2639
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Recovers? I wasn't aware it was in trouble. Jeez, its a young format doing almost as well as DVD was and WTF?



    Don't the statistics comparing HD media to DVD's adoption rate include both Blu-Ray and HD DVD, and even then it's behind DVD?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Does anyone here really believe that Walmart is going to carry a niche product they don't expect their core demographic to buy in sufficient quantity to warrant the shelf space?



    Did they carry Sony UMD movies? Just sayin'.
  • Reply 1411 of 2639
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post


    I have to wonder at the advice to "wait" for the prices to come down from these Pro HD-DVD people, did they "wait" for HD-DVD prices to fall? or did they buy $800 plus players being HT fans n all.. it would appear that if it was good enough for the goose (HD-DVD) it should be good enough for the gander (Blu-ray) but then the grapes as you say must be pretty sour. One only has to look at the pro HD-DVDers on this threat who espoused the virtues of HD-DVD NOW saying that DVD is "good enough"



    Spot on as always Walter. I couldn't agree with you more. Funny how HD DVD backer's arguments morph, huh?
  • Reply 1412 of 2639
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    King Arthur: "Look, you stupid Bastard. You've got no [studios] left."

    Black Knight: "Yes I have."

    King Arthur: "*Look*!"

    Black Knight: "It's just a flesh wound."





    Priceless.
  • Reply 1413 of 2639
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    WALMART is carrying the damned thing. Does anyone here really believe that Walmart is going to carry a niche product they don't expect their core demographic to buy in sufficient quantity to warrant the shelf space?



    If you think that Walmarts core demographic has an HDTV, can spend $400 on a movie player, and $20 on disks you are sadly mistaken. Walmarts core demographic shops the bargain $5 DVD bin, buys a cheap $39 Chinese DVD player, and uses EBT cards to pay for their goods.
  • Reply 1414 of 2639
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    It somewhat harder to compare because the PS3 is skewing the numbers more in favor of the console adoption than standalone. The expectation is for 10M PS3 sales in 2008 means that it beats DVD numbers (4M player sales 1999) if Sony hits this goal since the PS2 wouldn't have hit the market in numbers in the same time frame.



    We should ignore the player sales and focus on the title sales and rentals. That seems like a better indicator of the format's health. If they aren't getting the media they want, if it's to much money per title, or if the benefits of going Blu-ray aren't good enough to warrant the switch from a DVD library to a Blu-ray library then it doesn't matter how many players are sold.



    Of course, why would anyone buy a player that they can't use, but my point is to look at the effect of the consumer obtaining a Blu-ray player, not the single purchase of the player itself.
  • Reply 1415 of 2639
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post


    mm.. and on an Apple forum to boot!



    can you say E-Y-E-P-O-D



    Can you say blu ray consortium?
  • Reply 1416 of 2639
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jimmac View Post




    ...



    Of course they'll jump again. But there was no reason for this. The companies on both sides should have released their titles equally.



    ...




    Jim, while I often agree with what you say, this statement is a total non starter. If studios had done what you suggest we still be mired deep in the format fiasco.



    I think people need to accept that the game is indeed over and the fat lady has sung. HD supporters should stop their whining and BD supporters should move beyond the taunting stage. If BD people feel they have to whoop it up, there's a Gloating thread in General Discussions.



    It'll be interesting seeing what Universal's first titles will be on BD.



    Now that the format issue is resolved studios need to show their commitment to HDM by stepping up their output of titles, both new releases and catalog titles. And I'd really like to see studios have all their new releases appear at the same time on both DVD and BD formats. Maybe someday.
  • Reply 1417 of 2639
    bitemymacbitemymac Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post


    If you think that Walmarts core demographic has an HDTV, can spend $400 on a movie player, and $20 on disks you are sadly mistaken. Walmarts core demographic shops the bargain $5 DVD bin, buys a cheap $39 Chinese DVD player, and uses EBT cards to pay for their goods.





    Does that mean that all the HD-DVD firesale softwares/hardwares would filter through Walmart core demographic?...



    I'm actually looking forward to getting some cheap HD-DVD softwares. I would have bought another cheap HD-DVD player as a back up, if I didn't already own two units. (I don't think SACD/DVD-A slashed software prices though, but hopefully it's different for HDM's.)



    The HDM industry is having hard time trying to promote HDM hardwares/softwares in the higher end stores at this point. I wonder if it's right time to promote such higher end products to the Walmart shoppers. Well, getting the gamers involved seemed to help blu-ray, so who knows.
  • Reply 1418 of 2639
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kupan787 View Post


    If you think that Walmarts core demographic has an HDTV, can spend $400 on a movie player, and $20 on disks you are sadly mistaken. Walmarts core demographic shops the bargain $5 DVD bin, buys a cheap $39 Chinese DVD player, and uses EBT cards to pay for their goods.



    And yet they carry $2000 HDTVs, $400 Blu-ray players and $20 Blu-ray disks both at Walmart and Sam's Club. Yes, and UMD...ya guys got me there although there's a bit more shelf space dedicated to HD related merchandise.



    Still, you tell me why Walmart carries these "high end" products if they don't expect to move any? Why did they even care to carry HD at all beyond a few TVs?
  • Reply 1419 of 2639
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post


    Jim, while I often agree with what you say, this statement is a total non starter. If studios had done what you suggest we still be mired deep in the format fiasco.



    I think people need to accept that the game is indeed over and the fat lady has sung. HD supporters should stop their whining and BD supporters should move beyond the taunting stage. If BD people feel they have to whoop it up, there's a Gloating thread in General Discussions.



    It'll be interesting seeing what Universal's first titles will be on BD.



    Now that the format issue is resolved studios need to show their commitment to HDM by stepping up their output of titles, both new releases and catalog titles. And I'd really like to see studios have all their new releases appear at the same time on both DVD and BD formats. Maybe someday.





    I accept that the game is over but if you want to compare this to something where marketing and the consumer got to decide look at VHS vs Betamax. That was pretty much tit for tat and the consumer got to decide. Not the manufacturing companies stacking the deck.



    This whole thing was handled in a very unprofessional way. And make no mistake this was all for the companies. Not the consumer. Also I'm not sure at all we would still be in the format war. Because then it would have been up to price and features. You know the things that usually sell items. The things by the way that decided VHS vs. Betamax. VHS won because it could record 8 hours instead of 6. A moot point now days since people have better TVs and slowing something down like that on tape looks like crap. But basically that's why they won. Betamax lost because it couldn't record as much on the same tape. And Betamax actually looked better. It really in the long run was the better format but JVC ( the sponsor of VHS ) knew what points to stress to sell their item to the public.



    There's a feeling out there and it doesn't belong to only people who bought HD DVD.

    This whole mess was ugly and well quite frankly most of the consumers draw back from situations like this. Go to some other places besides this Apple forum ( because Apple supports BR ) and see what I mean. Alot of people haven't moved on because they never considered either one. This looked like a mess to them. Not handled in a consumer friendly fashion. And they want no part of it. Alot of them are saying DVD looks good enough to me and that HD stuff costs more.



    Now what BR needs to do to smooth this over is to put a friendly spin on this. Push the studios to release the titles already out on HD DVD that haven't been on BR. And lower their god damn prices to a level that will attract Joe Sixpack. Or you may find BR in some garage sale in a few years right next to HD DVD and Laserdisc machines.
  • Reply 1420 of 2639
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jimmac View Post


    Now what BR needs to do to smooth this over is to put a friendly spin on this. Push the studios to release the titles already out on HD DVD that haven't been on BR. And lower their god damn prices to a level that will attract Joe Sixpack. Or you may find BR in some garage sale in a few years right next to HD DVD and Laserdisc machines.



    What, you don't think keeping a format in an ever-changing state to ensure consumers avoid set top players, and then undercutting other Blu-Ray Hi-Def® player manufacturers with a player that's also a game console is a good strategy? The longer Blu-Ray is an unfinished format, and the longer dedicated players cost $400 or more, the longer the PS3 will be the only smart buy if a consumer wants a Blu-Ray Hi-Def® player. It's like two wins in one for Sony!
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