The high pitched whine of Anakin coupled with the poor dialogue. ADHD choreography of pretty much every battle scene where so much was going on that you could focus on exactly nothing.
I used to think Darth Vader was the meanest bastard around. After Episode III I realized he was just some sad emo kid with force powers.
I should be thankful though. George cured me of my Star Wars addiction in 3 easy steps.
But we also used to think that Obi-Wan was a nice guy, but it turns out he was a bad ass that was lying to luke about "your father wanted to have this light saber".
The good guys are Empire, the whole series is a tragedy where Darth Vader is corrupted by the Alliance (who are spoiled aristocrats trying to get back into power, after they screwed up the whole universe by not being able to rule effectively).
He becomes the feared sith *after* being cut in half, the lava cauldren forged him into a real Sith from the raw materials of that emo boy.
As expected, Paramount?the final big movie studio to exclusively support the defeated HD DVD format?has jumped to Blu-ray. That said, several new HD DVD titles are still on tap for the coming months.
Paramount, the studio that released such blockbusters as "Transformers" and the "Mission: Impossible" movies, told the Hollywood Reporter (via High-Def Digest) that it will "look to (begin) releasing our titles on Blu-ray" and that "we will monitor consumer adoption and determine our release plan accordingly." Vague words, although Reuters notes that both Paramount and newly-Blu Universal will probably begin cranking out Blu-ray titles by "late spring or early summer."
Paramount's move represents quite a reversal for both the studio and the HD DVD format itself. The movie house initially supported both Blu-ray and HD DVD; last August, however, Paramount and its subsidiary, Dreamworks, surprised the industry by jumping to HD DVD exclusively, a maneuver that evened up the format war and dealt a major blow to the Blu-ray camp. But in January, Blu-ray regained the lead by wooing format-neutral studio Warner Brothers, and the rest is history.
While all the big movie studios are now aligned with Blu-ray, that doesn't mean that there aren't any HD DVD titles left in the pipe. Indeed, Warners has confirmed that it will continue pressing HD DVD movies through May, and a quick look at the HD DVD release schedule shows upcoming titles such as "Beowolf," "The Assassination of Jesse James," and "The Brave One" this month, "Into the Wild," "No Reservations," "Michael Clayton," "Bee Movie," and "In the Valley of Elah" in March, and "I Am Legend" in April. Not exactly an avalanche of movies, mind you, but hey?for those of us stuck with HD DVD players, it's something.
Paramount now on board. 100% of studios for Blu-ray...although I haven't heard anything from Weinstein? What's up with them?
But we also used to think that Obi-Wan was a nice guy, but it turns out he was a bad ass that was lying to luke about "your father wanted to have this light saber".
The good guys are Empire, the whole series is a tragedy where Darth Vader is corrupted by the Alliance (who are spoiled aristocrats trying to get back into power, after they screwed up the whole universe by not being able to rule effectively).
He becomes the feared sith *after* being cut in half, the lava cauldren forged him into a real Sith from the raw materials of that emo boy.
I just wish that George had let someone else drive when it was time to make episodes 1 ~ 3. I'm sure there might have been a story in there to tell but I can't see it. It seems like he tried (and failed) to make a political statement in there somewhere.
Anyway the ships and battles from episodes 4 ~ 6 were superior to the prequels. Storm Troopers and Clone Troopers seem equally cool except for the whole "they're all clones of Jango Fett".
There was so much material and resources George could have drawn on for the prequels. So many novels had been written based in the Star Wars universe an many of them were very good. He basically flipped them all off and wrecked the franchise.
P.S. - I never saw the real draw of Boba Fett in the original movies and after seeing the prequels, he completely sucks (another emo kid, great).
P.P.S - My 7 year old son absolutely loves all the Star Wars movies especially the prequels. The best I can guess is that this was George's goal.
PS: Funny, we haven't heard any blather from the HD-DVD advocates on this thread in a several days. I wonder why that is?
Because we've said our piece. It's not the first time the ignorant masses have been hoodwinked by big money interests and it won't be the last.
Most HD-DVD backers supported the format because it was the cheaper route to a better experience and/or because it was the format with lesser DRM. In a world when funds are scarce to deal with massive social problems and privacy is a concern, both are honourable principles.
In contrast, support from BR backers was almost solely contingent on the disc's larger capacity.
Sony's fanboys sit somewhat blinded by their PS3s, seemingly not caring what goes on in the rest of the world and unable to connect the dots even when their own interests are threatened. Maybe Sony's put in rootkit in their heads.
Fanboyism prevailed, but HD-DVD supporters have nothing to apologize for, and will not.
I just got a contract back for my first HD wedding video to be delivered on Blu-ray. It'll be in the end of May, so I'll hold off on purchasing the necessary software and hardware upgrades until closer to the date. Hopefully they'll come down and not go up due to this news. As it stands now I'd have to spend about $1700 to produce this $1400 wedding video. I really hope this brides's not the only one interested in HD this year and I can spread that cost out a bit.
Because we've said our piece. It's not the first time the ignorant masses have been hoodwinked by big money interests and it won't be the last.
Most HD-DVD backers supported the format because it was the cheaper route to a better experience and/or because it was the format with lesser DRM. In a world when funds are scarce to deal with massive social problems and privacy is a concern, both are honourable principles.
In contrast, support from BR backers was almost solely contingent on the disc's larger capacity.
Sony's fanboys sit somewhat blinded by their PS3s, seemingly not caring what goes on in the rest of the world and unable to connect the dots even when their own interests are threatened. Maybe Sony's put in rootkit in their heads.
Fanboyism prevailed, but HD-DVD supporters have nothing to apologize for, and will not.
Wow. Here's an article I think pretty much slams any notion you've just proposed here. Funny thing is, you present the SAME arguments as Microsoft and just as their reasoning is poor, so is yours IMO. This article is SPOT ON.
Over the last few months, HD-DVD appeared to rapidly fall from its apparent position as promising new disc format–touted by supporters as being technically superior, significantly cheaper, and less restrictive–down to a harsh new reality of scheduled death. However, the fate of HD-DVD wasn’t nearly as unpredictable as some seemed to think. Here’s why HD-DVD’s end should not have been a surprise, what lessons can be learned from its death, and what its demise means for Microsoft.
A New Format War.
Six months ago, I presented the format war between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray as a skirmish on the edge of the console video game business. Through the end of 2007, both HD formats had failed to sell more than a few hundred thousand standalone units, leaving HD discs a collective failure on the order of Microsoft’s Zune music player.
While standalone HD disc players languished in the market throughout 2007, Sony advertised Blu-Ray in its PlayStation 3 game console as Microsoft pushed HD-DVD on PCs with support built into Windows Vista and sold a low priced external HD-DVD drive option for the Xbox 360. This appeared to give Microsoft and HD-DVD a strong edge in the market, as it had the monopoly power of Windows behind it.
Both companies wanted to control media playback in the emerging market for HD video, just as they battled to control audio playback a half decade prior, when Microsoft had pushed its PlaysForSure Windows Media Audio players against Sony’s ATRAC Walkman hardware; both efforts lost out to Apple’s iPod. In the new HD video market, Microsoft again wanted to push its Windows Media codecs while Sony wanted to establish its blue-violet laser technology.
The Format War Origins.
Since Sony had no rival video codec software to push, and Microsoft had no real hardware interests to defend, why were they battling for the next generation of video discs rather than working together on a joint standard? Initially, Microsoft did work with Sony. However, the rest of the industry working with Sony on Blu-Ray rejected portions of Microsoft’s technology, sending the company into a furious rivalry against Blu-Ray.
A follow up article on the origins of the format war presented Microsoft’s efforts to push its Windows Media and WinCE as essential, proprietary aspects of both the new HD disc formats. While Microsoft successfully wrote Windows Media (aka VC-1) into the specification of both Toshiba’s AOD and Sony’s Blu-Ray, the Blu-Ray consortium members later selected Java-based technology from Sun as its interactive menu layer rather than Microsoft’s WinCE/HDi.
The Early Lead of HD-DVD.
Years earlier in 2003, the DVD Forum had selected Toshiba’s AOD format as the successor to DVD because the company promised it would be finished sooner than Sony’s Blu-Ray; the Forum subsequently renamed Toshiba’s format HD-DVD to associate it with DVD, while Sony continued work on Blu-Ray.
At the time, Sony’s efforts looked significantly behind. Blue-violet lasers were already expensive, but Blu-Ray also required retooled manufacturing lines. HD-DVD promised to reach the market faster and cheaper due to its similarities to DVD player assembly as well as support from Microsoft on the PC desktop and in its first-to-market Xbox 360 game console. Microsoft had also sold Disney CEO Michael Eisner on HDi and Windows Media DRM.
It appeared that Microsoft had time, technology, and studio deals all on its side, while Sony’s Blu-Ray was falling behind, more complicated, and lacked support from studios. Those same problems had spelled death for Sony’s UMD, a proprietary mini-DVD disc designed for use on the PlayStation Portable. Blu-Ray was also frequently compared to Betamax, which had fallen to JVC’s VHS format in the 80s after a prolonged format war that confused and irritated consumers.
A Reversal of Fortune.
A series of industry shifts resulted in a weakening of the initially strong presence of HD-DVD long before consumers could even select between them. In 2004, Sony bought MGM. The next year, Eisner left Disney and the company’s ties to Microsoft began to wane. That shifted major studio support towards Blu-Ray.
By the end of 2004, it was also obvious that Toshiba wasn’t going to deliver HD-DVD a year ahead of Blu-Ray as promised. The rest of the industry also began to view Blu-Ray as a more credible format despite the DVD Forum’s official blessing for HD-DVD. Sony had developed hardware partnerships with every major hardware manufacturer, while Toshiba was the only significant manufacturer of HD-DVD players.
Through 2005, Toshiba continued to struggle with HD-DVD. The components required to to render HD video and display Microsoft’s HDi were similar to a low-end PC, and cost roughly $675 just for the bill of materials. That left Toshiba with a major hardware loss when trying to sell the players at a $500 consumer price target. The company was ready to drop HD-DVD that year and join the Blu-Ray consortium, but Microsoft pushed it to continue.
The first HD-DVD players weren’t ready until early 2006. Blu-Ray players debuted just weeks later, priced closer to $1000. By the end of that year, Microsoft began selling an external $200 HD-DVD player for the Xbox 360, just as Sony introduced its PlayStation 3 with an integrated Blu-Ray player.
HD War Games.
By the end of 2006, Microsoft had shipped ten million Xbox 360s to stores, while Sony had only sold a few hundred thousand units of the new PS3. However, Microsoft only sold a limited number of its optional HD-DVD drives to Xbox users, while every PS3 shipped with Blu-Ray capabilities.
Compared to standalone HD disc players, Sony’s PS3 not only offered the cheapest Blu-Ray system, but also did a variety of other things, including media downloads and of course games. Throughout 2007, Sony shipped nearly as many PS3 units (6.5 million) as Microsoft sold Xbox 360s (7.3 million). Again, every PS3 played Blu-Ray, while only a small number of Microsoft’s console buyers opted for the HD-DVD option.
Many PS3 buyers were buying them, not as game machines, but on the recommendation of sales people because it was the most economical Blu-Ray player. That surge of Blu-Ray players began creating a market for HD discs that greatly outnumbered the few hundred thousand HD disc players sold outside of the PS3.
The War on Microsoft.
While the PS3 pushed the Blu-Ray format over the goal line, the entire industry outside of Microsoft, Intel, and Toshiba was lined up behind Blu-Ray. There simply wasn’t any realistic chance that HD-DVD would prevail. This wasn’t a simple physical format war like the old VHS and Betamax rivalry; also at stake were the future of video codecs and embedded interactivity development. This was a battle for software and open markets that went far beyond HD disc movie playback.
Companies like Apple and Sun, neither of which had expressed any interest in building or selling HD discs, were unitedly opposed to HD-DVD because it meant Microsoft would expand its proprietary control over video codecs and the embedded software runtime used for interactivity. The industry in general has actively been pushing to rid itself of dependance upon Microsoft controlled standards.
Ten years ago in 1998, Apple, Sun, IBM, Netscape, Oracle, and Silicon Graphics all collectively backed QuickTime against Microsoft’s ASF as the new container for MPEG-4. ISO members subsequently selected QuickTime over ASF and set in motion the development of open standards for mobile, disc, and high definition media distribution using a standard set of codecs collectively maintained by the entire industry rather than beholden to a specific company.
Since then, Microsoft tried hard to push ASF, derail MPEG-4, and even created its own bastard version of MPEG-4 codecs under the name Windows Media 9. It also worked hard to establish its proprietary audio codecs in the field of portable media players. When those efforts all failed, Microsoft ran WM9 though a sham standards process that rebranded it as VC-1, and set up a satellite group of “partners” to advocate it, all of which were owned or directly controlled by Microsoft.
None of these efforts hid the reality that Microsoft wanted to simply duplicate in media what it had done to the PC desktop: copy existing technology, add proprietary hooks, and then sit back and tax the industry with software fees without adding any value. After having been burned repeatedly, the rest of the industry is now ready to shoot down every effort Microsoft makes to enslave innovation and progress.
Misinformation Wars.
Added to the strong showing of studios and manufacturers already supporting Blu-Ray since 2005, the impact of Sony’s integration of Blu-Ray on the PS3 left little room for the HD-DVD camp to maneuver. Microsoft’s efforts to support HD-DVD in Windows Vista and on the Xbox 360 had a limited effect because Vista turned out a commercial failure, and 360 sales were in a precipitous free fall, dropping 33% year over year in 2007. Sony had attached Blu-Ray to its PS3 rocket at launch while Microsoft tied two sandbags to HD-DVD: Vista and the Xbox 360.
Apple, Nintendo, and Sony were all working to push OpenGL against Microsoft’s proprietary DirectX. The video industry was pushing behind the ISO’s MPEG-4 H.264 and AAC, aided by the popularity of Apple’s iTunes, rather than the proprietary WMA and WMV/VC-1 codecs Microsoft was working to advance. The embedded industry favored Java over Microsoft’s latest proprietary efforts to own interactivity. HD-DVD died because the industry collectively worked to kill it as a proprietary monster that would enslave users, studios, and developers to Microsoft’s software. It wasn’t a simple disc format struggle.
The public wasn’t aware of what was going on behind the scenes because Microsoft worked diligently to spin a misinformation campaign that suggested that HD-DVD would be cheaper, more open, and deliver more content. Backers were fed talking points that insisted that HD-DVD discs were cheaper to create, that the Chinese would pump out ultra cheap players to support Microsoft, and that HD-DVD’s DRM was somehow easier to get around than Blu-Ray. This was all false.
When charged with the reality that Microsoft is nothing more than a marketing organization pushing inferior technology tied to proprietary standards that will later be leveraged to extort higher prices, the company responds with a smoke screen that declares that its products will be first-to-market and supported by lowballing Chinese manufacturers. At the same time however, Microsoft has only ever delivered late, inferior products that have a higher total cost of ownership. Its supporters have worked hard to bury this reality even as Microsoft continues to raise prices on poor products that have limited competition, such as Windows Vista.
Reality Distortion.
Despite the industry’s widespread backing of Blu-Ray, Microsoft similarly worked hard to create the illusion that HD-DVD was a viable product. This was critical because HD-DVD was Microsoft’s last effort to force the adoption of VC-1 and HDi. It had already failed to successfully use WinCE in any other embedded market, from smartphones to music players to handheld computers, and had similarly failed to establish Windows Media as a download format against the ISO’s AAC and H.264, widely popularized by Apple’s iTunes.
In a final act of desperation, the HD-DVD camp signed up Paramount and DreamWorks as new exclusive movie studios for HD-DVD. This pitted roughly half of the studios behind each of the two rival formats, with Warner Bros. being unique in offering titles in both formats. Microsoft’s efforts to prolong the format war had nothing to do with players or media, and everything to do with forwarding its proprietary software.
However, consumers were confused by the format uncertainty, which helped to slow sales across the board. Irritated by Microsoft’s refusal to cooperate, Warner Bros. announced a pullout of HD-DVD support right before CES, yanking the plug on Microsoft’s HD-DVD marketing push planned for the show. That signaled an enthusiastic redrawing of the watershed of support behind Blu-Ray, from retailers like WalMart to movie rental groups including Blockbuster and Netflix, and ultimately to Toshiba as HD-DVD’s hardware producer.
What the Death of HD-DVD Means.
HD-DVD is dead, and with it dies Microsoft’s aspirations to inject its proprietary software in media development. This is also a big strike against VC-1; despite being written into the Blu-Ray standard along with the ISO’s H.264, most Blu-Ray developers are moving toward H.264, which not only allows them to master HD discs, but also deliver mobile and downloadable versions using the same codec for playback on devices such as the PSP and iPod.
The death of HD-DVD also presents further evidence that Microsoft is increasingly incapable of pushing its own proprietary standards using its Windows monopoly. Building support for HD-DVD into Windows Vista did almost nothing to shore up support for the format, and tying it to the Xbox 360 similarly did little to push things toward the outcome Microsoft wanted.
In the 90s, Microsoft maintained an invincible aura praised by loyal pundits; it defeated small companies, bought up rivals and destroyed them, slit its partners’ throats, and put startups out of business. It only ever gave the appearance of maintaining strong relationships with its partner companies. However, in the last ten years, that strong facade has been destroyed by a series of very public failures:
WinCE helped to destroy Palm, but did nothing to advance the state of the art and has since fallen into a distant and increasingly irrelevant third place in smartphones. It has become similarly irrelevant in the small handheld computer market for which it was created, and has failed as an embedded system. Microsoft moved its UMPC plans to use its desktop Windows, dropped any hope of using WinCE as the basis for game consoles, and most recently bought up Java-based Danger to replace WinCE as its mobile strategy. If Microsoft is fully abandoning WinCE, why should partners stick around?
Windows XP has floated along as the default choice for PC consumers, but when Microsoft tried to raise the price and tack on fluff features with the Vista rebranding, buyers demanded to upgrade to the previous version. Microsoft is still shipping Vista to manufacturers, but corporations and end users are frequently reverting to Windows XP, killing Microsoft’s ability to leverage its market position to push new proprietary standards and raise prices for features that were once included for free, such as standard networking.
The Xbox 360 had a strong showing in its first year, but was still unable to match the sales of Sony’s PS2. In its second year, it not only fell behind sales of the original Xbox, but also fell 33% year over year as buyers shifted their attention to the newer Nintendo Wii and PS3. The Wii outsold the 360 in 2007 and the PS3 came within a stones throw of matching its sales. Going forward, there is no reason for thinking 360 sales will dramatically turn around, as sales fell this year despite the arrival of major hit new games.
In contrast, after a slow initial start in its first year, Sony’s PS2 grew dramatically year over year back to back in 2001 and 2002, and maintained annual sales well above the Xbox 360’s 2006 peak for over six years, selling an average of 16.8 million per year over its seven year lifespan. Sony has similar long term plans for the PS3, while Microsoft has been unable to sell a game console with a lifespan over four years. The 360 is having a late life crisis just as the PS3 is beginning to sell in adolescent volume.
Microsoft’s monopoly power is dissolving, and its ability to create anti-competitive partnerships and exclusive alliances is also falling apart. Its hardware partners have been led on wild goose chases with WinCE, desktop Windows, PlaysForSure, and now HD-DVD, leaving alliances with Microsoft looking more like charity exercises than business decisions.
Misinformation Is and Misinformation Does.
With the mask pulled off the bluffing, blustering HD-DVD, it becomes clearer that the talking points generated by Microsoft’s supporters all have the same source. As new promises are made about the imminent arrival of cheap new hardware from Chinese dumping, new partnerships just around the corner, and the power of Microsoft’s monopoly to make the improbable happen, it will now be increasingly difficult for the public to swallow them.
Those assurances applied not only to the failure of HD-DVD but also the failure of the Zune, which was similarly supposed to take on the world with Toshiba and turn into a Chinese mass production established in place by the influence of Windows and the Xbox. Instead, MTV’s Urge defected from its Zune store partnership with Microsoft to join Real’s rival Rhapsody music store, and Microsoft never even built any significant integration between the Zune and Xbox.
The Xbox itself was also supposed to rapidly turn around in price, but it soon be came clear that the Xbox 360 was actually more expensive to buy compared to the PS3 for users who get a hard drive, HD disc player, wireless networking, and other features left off Xbox models. In order to hide the fact that Xbox sales are dramatically tapering off, pundits only ever counted the 360, PS3, and Wii in cumulative numbers. No other market uses installed base to compare sales. Microsoft certainly doesn’t talk about installed base when comparing the Zune to the iPod.
If the Zune had sold a respectable number of units, it would be praised for its achievement rather than compared to the total number of iPods sold in previous years. Instead, Microsoft gerrymandered a market for “30GB hard drive based music players” in order to briefly claim a slice approaching 10% of weekly sales numbers.
The End of A Great Illusion.
The reality is that Microsoft is forced to falsify reports and color numbers because reality doesn’t support the illusion of Microsoft’s unquestionable market power. The company is failing in consumer electronics, and every year that passes makes its losses greater and its accomplishments less impressive.
With shrinking sales, the 360 isn’t going to hold off expansion of the PS3. With the death of HD-DVD, Microsoft isn’t going to push into media sales and production. With fire sales of the Zune, Apple is not going to lose its iPod business to the same company that already failed to take it on with its PlaysForSure partners.
The death of HD-DVD says more about Microsoft and its future than the general media seems to recognize. It’s not a format war, its a culture war between industry players working to advance the state of the art collectively in partnerships, and one company working to own everything while contributing very little. It’s not hard to see why Microsoft’s bruised and abused former partners are working to align themselves with open solutions rather than buy into more pain with technology tied to Microsoft. That’s very bad news for a company that exists solely as a licensee of third rate product ideas.
The death of HD-DVD is another lethal wound for Microsoft’s dying empire.
It's funny but sad. I post about how HD-DVD supporters favoured a cheaper solution and lesser DRM and Marz responds with a silly strawman argument invoking the dreaded Microsoft.
He then quotes a long article about how Microsoft's power is waning, as if anyone doubts that.
Marz, reread my post again. It had NOTHING TO DO WITH MICROSOFT's motives for supporting HD-DVD.
Episode 1 and 2 sucked donkey balls, but episode III was awesome, what are you talking about?
Parts of ep 1 were ok, its when the kid popped up... it started to fail miserably, hardly the kids fault.. only NOW can I say that. GL shouldn't have laid the biggest movie franchise ever known at the feet of a child actor.
ep 2, what happened in it? oh yeah Chris Lee gets to be onscreen, completing the double act of his buddy peter Cushing landing a role in 77' (love those actors) and this time it felt like ben wasnt quite the idiot from ep 1 but then again he WAS acting against a cardboard cut out of an actor.
ep 3 return of the payoff. it did deliver in CGI amazed was I, frank oz's yoda is well, to paraphrase star trek "It's GREEN" and again, Chris Lee.
but darth vader went from THE badest of badasses to a week and feeble incidental hat basket.
It's funny but sad. I post about how HD-DVD supporters favoured a cheaper solution and lesser DRM and Marz responds with a silly strawman argument invoking the dreaded Microsoft.
He then quotes a long article about how Microsoft's power is waning, as if anyone doubts that.
Marz, reread my post again. It had NOTHING TO DO WITH MICROSOFT's motives for supporting HD-DVD.
dont you love people like that? he posts a crap article with insane amounts of misinformation that was actually talking about misinformation lol.
and dont you just love the spin? yes the ps3 is picking up steam while the 360 is falling off.. yeah, while having the biggest holiday season in gaming history and having the biggest entertainment day of all time (halo 3's release).
The word "proprietary" indicates that a party, or proprietor, exercises private ownership, control or use over an item of property, usually to the exclusion of other parties.
....
Proprietary components are components that are unique to a specific manufacturer, and do not conform to preset standards.
As you can see, this definition applies to both Blu-ray and HD DVD. However, in neither case were the proprietors exercising their control to the exclusion of other parties.
Is it really worth the effort to shovel on some more FUD about a dead format?
Most HD-DVD backers supported the format because it was the cheaper route
Which was a false assumption because Toshiba was loosing hundreds per player sold.
double sided discs cost more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
to a better experience
better experience? with less studio support? with less room on the disc? with more expensive double sided discs? a situation that placed the consumer in a position where they were tied to a SINGLE source of players, ie a proprietary format. mm better indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
and/or because it was the format with lesser DRM.
I guess thats why DVD failed as a format too, its DRM was just as "difficult" to break at the beginning of its life as well, not to mention that only 2 of the studios have included the extra DRM.
And WHY is no DRM so important to you, do you intend to rip content illegally? its a constant gripe, like you own shares in bit torrent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
In a world when funds are scarce to deal with massive social problems and privacy is a concern, both are honourable principles.
Irrelevant rantings at best in regard to a next gen optical format, of which HD-DVD WAS one, yet apparently you at no time sought to attach these "problems" to HD-DVD, likely because it had such hidden costs to begin with and you swallowed the hyperbole, spin and P.R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
In contrast, support from BR backers was almost solely contingent on the disc's larger capacity.
which is an actual verifiable and REAL advantage. Not being shackled to M$ teat, might have actually been an advantage as well.. you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
Sony's fanboys sit somewhat blinded by their PS3s, seemingly not caring what goes on in the rest of the world and unable to connect the dots even when their own interests are threatened. Maybe Sony's put in rootkit in their heads.
Your irrelevant spin is almost a joy to behold, if it wasnt for the total lack of grip on anything approaching reality.. am I to gauge from your rambling muses that BD is responsible for world hunger?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
Fanboyism prevailed, but HD-DVD supporters have nothing to apologize for, and will not.
No, I suppose you are right, nothing to answer for if ignorance is forgivable, but you were informed, so it must be blind slavish sheep lust to follow the M$ teat.
If all your argument comes down to is "boo hoo the "fanboyz" won, then I don't think you have the competency for reasoned thought to engage in discussion in the first place. but please do refute anything and everything WITHOUT resort to the "fanboy" non-argument.
face up to the reality because Toshiba eventually did, and admitted that they "had no chance to win"
if you want to blindly delude yourself that that was NOT the case, then fine, just don't inflict it on the rational people.
Wow. Here's an article I think pretty much slams any notion you've just proposed here. Funny thing is, you present the SAME arguments as Microsoft and just as their reasoning is poor, so is yours IMO. This article is SPOT ON.
I did support HD DVD for the reasons Frank777 listed. But, that guy's article is in print so he must be right. I must have been mistaken about my motivations.
I did have additional reasons for wanting HD DVD to win, but they didn't have much to do with why I went ahead and bought a player.
1. The arrogance of Blu-ray fanboys was just really really irritating me.
2. Much more importantly, as a content producer, admittedly a tiny one, HD DVD was much easier and cheaper for me to supply to my clients. I am able to supply HD DVD compatible HD discs right now without any additional investment. I could easily fit any wedding but a full Mass Catholic wedding on a single disc. For longer running programs I would've had to invest in an HD DVD burner, should they ever have made one.
But, now I'm looking at $1600-$1700 in additional investment because I have to offer Blu-ray if I want to offer HD. I'm so happy to be paying $17 apiece for printable blank discs instead of $2 for a printable blank DVD+RDL
Naturally it's a business investment that I will eventually make back. Eventually. But that doesn't change the fact that an HD DVD victory would've been much better for me.
Which was a false assumption because Toshiba was loosing hundreds per player sold.
double sided discs cost more.
Well that's true. Toshiba was definitely losing truckloads of money. Especially compared to the truckloads that Sony was making off of the PS3... oh wait. Another argument against HD DVD that also applies to Blu-ray. Why don't you stick with Blu-ray's actual advantages like capacity and eventual greater studio support.
Double sided discs were an annoying attempt to placate those asking "How come it don't play in my regular DVD player?" They were a failure on the part of the studios and not the fault of Toshiba or the HD DVD format.
Comments
The high pitched whine of Anakin coupled with the poor dialogue. ADHD choreography of pretty much every battle scene where so much was going on that you could focus on exactly nothing.
I used to think Darth Vader was the meanest bastard around. After Episode III I realized he was just some sad emo kid with force powers.
I should be thankful though. George cured me of my Star Wars addiction in 3 easy steps.
But we also used to think that Obi-Wan was a nice guy, but it turns out he was a bad ass that was lying to luke about "your father wanted to have this light saber".
The good guys are Empire, the whole series is a tragedy where Darth Vader is corrupted by the Alliance (who are spoiled aristocrats trying to get back into power, after they screwed up the whole universe by not being able to rule effectively).
He becomes the feared sith *after* being cut in half, the lava cauldren forged him into a real Sith from the raw materials of that emo boy.
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterso...o-goes-blu-ray
As expected, Paramount?the final big movie studio to exclusively support the defeated HD DVD format?has jumped to Blu-ray. That said, several new HD DVD titles are still on tap for the coming months.
Paramount, the studio that released such blockbusters as "Transformers" and the "Mission: Impossible" movies, told the Hollywood Reporter (via High-Def Digest) that it will "look to (begin) releasing our titles on Blu-ray" and that "we will monitor consumer adoption and determine our release plan accordingly." Vague words, although Reuters notes that both Paramount and newly-Blu Universal will probably begin cranking out Blu-ray titles by "late spring or early summer."
Paramount's move represents quite a reversal for both the studio and the HD DVD format itself. The movie house initially supported both Blu-ray and HD DVD; last August, however, Paramount and its subsidiary, Dreamworks, surprised the industry by jumping to HD DVD exclusively, a maneuver that evened up the format war and dealt a major blow to the Blu-ray camp. But in January, Blu-ray regained the lead by wooing format-neutral studio Warner Brothers, and the rest is history.
While all the big movie studios are now aligned with Blu-ray, that doesn't mean that there aren't any HD DVD titles left in the pipe. Indeed, Warners has confirmed that it will continue pressing HD DVD movies through May, and a quick look at the HD DVD release schedule shows upcoming titles such as "Beowolf," "The Assassination of Jesse James," and "The Brave One" this month, "Into the Wild," "No Reservations," "Michael Clayton," "Bee Movie," and "In the Valley of Elah" in March, and "I Am Legend" in April. Not exactly an avalanche of movies, mind you, but hey?for those of us stuck with HD DVD players, it's something.
Paramount now on board. 100% of studios for Blu-ray...although I haven't heard anything from Weinstein? What's up with them?
Paramount now on board. 100% of studios for Blu-ray...although I haven't heard anything from Weinstein? What's up with them?
Both Universal and Paramount are technically still in the HD-DVD camp, too. I'm sure they are just giving lip service until they can legally back out.
PS: Funny, we haven't heard any blather from the HD-DVD advocates on this thread in a several days. I wonder why that is?
But we also used to think that Obi-Wan was a nice guy, but it turns out he was a bad ass that was lying to luke about "your father wanted to have this light saber".
The good guys are Empire, the whole series is a tragedy where Darth Vader is corrupted by the Alliance (who are spoiled aristocrats trying to get back into power, after they screwed up the whole universe by not being able to rule effectively).
He becomes the feared sith *after* being cut in half, the lava cauldren forged him into a real Sith from the raw materials of that emo boy.
I just wish that George had let someone else drive when it was time to make episodes 1 ~ 3. I'm sure there might have been a story in there to tell but I can't see it. It seems like he tried (and failed) to make a political statement in there somewhere.
Anyway the ships and battles from episodes 4 ~ 6 were superior to the prequels. Storm Troopers and Clone Troopers seem equally cool except for the whole "they're all clones of Jango Fett".
There was so much material and resources George could have drawn on for the prequels. So many novels had been written based in the Star Wars universe an many of them were very good. He basically flipped them all off and wrecked the franchise.
P.S. - I never saw the real draw of Boba Fett in the original movies and after seeing the prequels, he completely sucks (another emo kid, great).
P.P.S - My 7 year old son absolutely loves all the Star Wars movies especially the prequels. The best I can guess is that this was George's goal.
PS: Funny, we haven't heard any blather from the HD-DVD advocates on this thread in a several days. I wonder why that is?
Because we've said our piece. It's not the first time the ignorant masses have been hoodwinked by big money interests and it won't be the last.
Most HD-DVD backers supported the format because it was the cheaper route to a better experience and/or because it was the format with lesser DRM. In a world when funds are scarce to deal with massive social problems and privacy is a concern, both are honourable principles.
In contrast, support from BR backers was almost solely contingent on the disc's larger capacity.
Sony's fanboys sit somewhat blinded by their PS3s, seemingly not caring what goes on in the rest of the world and unable to connect the dots even when their own interests are threatened. Maybe Sony's put in rootkit in their heads.
Fanboyism prevailed, but HD-DVD supporters have nothing to apologize for, and will not.
Because we've said our piece. It's not the first time the ignorant masses have been hoodwinked by big money interests and it won't be the last.
Most HD-DVD backers supported the format because it was the cheaper route to a better experience and/or because it was the format with lesser DRM. In a world when funds are scarce to deal with massive social problems and privacy is a concern, both are honourable principles.
In contrast, support from BR backers was almost solely contingent on the disc's larger capacity.
Sony's fanboys sit somewhat blinded by their PS3s, seemingly not caring what goes on in the rest of the world and unable to connect the dots even when their own interests are threatened. Maybe Sony's put in rootkit in their heads.
Fanboyism prevailed, but HD-DVD supporters have nothing to apologize for, and will not.
Wow. Here's an article I think pretty much slams any notion you've just proposed here. Funny thing is, you present the SAME arguments as Microsoft and just as their reasoning is poor, so is yours IMO. This article is SPOT ON.
Lessons from the Death of HD-DVD
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/0...ath-of-hd-dvd/
Daniel Eran Dilger
Over the last few months, HD-DVD appeared to rapidly fall from its apparent position as promising new disc format–touted by supporters as being technically superior, significantly cheaper, and less restrictive–down to a harsh new reality of scheduled death. However, the fate of HD-DVD wasn’t nearly as unpredictable as some seemed to think. Here’s why HD-DVD’s end should not have been a surprise, what lessons can be learned from its death, and what its demise means for Microsoft.
A New Format War.
Six months ago, I presented the format war between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray as a skirmish on the edge of the console video game business. Through the end of 2007, both HD formats had failed to sell more than a few hundred thousand standalone units, leaving HD discs a collective failure on the order of Microsoft’s Zune music player.
While standalone HD disc players languished in the market throughout 2007, Sony advertised Blu-Ray in its PlayStation 3 game console as Microsoft pushed HD-DVD on PCs with support built into Windows Vista and sold a low priced external HD-DVD drive option for the Xbox 360. This appeared to give Microsoft and HD-DVD a strong edge in the market, as it had the monopoly power of Windows behind it.
Both companies wanted to control media playback in the emerging market for HD video, just as they battled to control audio playback a half decade prior, when Microsoft had pushed its PlaysForSure Windows Media Audio players against Sony’s ATRAC Walkman hardware; both efforts lost out to Apple’s iPod. In the new HD video market, Microsoft again wanted to push its Windows Media codecs while Sony wanted to establish its blue-violet laser technology.
The Format War Origins.
Since Sony had no rival video codec software to push, and Microsoft had no real hardware interests to defend, why were they battling for the next generation of video discs rather than working together on a joint standard? Initially, Microsoft did work with Sony. However, the rest of the industry working with Sony on Blu-Ray rejected portions of Microsoft’s technology, sending the company into a furious rivalry against Blu-Ray.
A follow up article on the origins of the format war presented Microsoft’s efforts to push its Windows Media and WinCE as essential, proprietary aspects of both the new HD disc formats. While Microsoft successfully wrote Windows Media (aka VC-1) into the specification of both Toshiba’s AOD and Sony’s Blu-Ray, the Blu-Ray consortium members later selected Java-based technology from Sun as its interactive menu layer rather than Microsoft’s WinCE/HDi.
The Early Lead of HD-DVD.
Years earlier in 2003, the DVD Forum had selected Toshiba’s AOD format as the successor to DVD because the company promised it would be finished sooner than Sony’s Blu-Ray; the Forum subsequently renamed Toshiba’s format HD-DVD to associate it with DVD, while Sony continued work on Blu-Ray.
At the time, Sony’s efforts looked significantly behind. Blue-violet lasers were already expensive, but Blu-Ray also required retooled manufacturing lines. HD-DVD promised to reach the market faster and cheaper due to its similarities to DVD player assembly as well as support from Microsoft on the PC desktop and in its first-to-market Xbox 360 game console. Microsoft had also sold Disney CEO Michael Eisner on HDi and Windows Media DRM.
It appeared that Microsoft had time, technology, and studio deals all on its side, while Sony’s Blu-Ray was falling behind, more complicated, and lacked support from studios. Those same problems had spelled death for Sony’s UMD, a proprietary mini-DVD disc designed for use on the PlayStation Portable. Blu-Ray was also frequently compared to Betamax, which had fallen to JVC’s VHS format in the 80s after a prolonged format war that confused and irritated consumers.
A Reversal of Fortune.
A series of industry shifts resulted in a weakening of the initially strong presence of HD-DVD long before consumers could even select between them. In 2004, Sony bought MGM. The next year, Eisner left Disney and the company’s ties to Microsoft began to wane. That shifted major studio support towards Blu-Ray.
By the end of 2004, it was also obvious that Toshiba wasn’t going to deliver HD-DVD a year ahead of Blu-Ray as promised. The rest of the industry also began to view Blu-Ray as a more credible format despite the DVD Forum’s official blessing for HD-DVD. Sony had developed hardware partnerships with every major hardware manufacturer, while Toshiba was the only significant manufacturer of HD-DVD players.
Through 2005, Toshiba continued to struggle with HD-DVD. The components required to to render HD video and display Microsoft’s HDi were similar to a low-end PC, and cost roughly $675 just for the bill of materials. That left Toshiba with a major hardware loss when trying to sell the players at a $500 consumer price target. The company was ready to drop HD-DVD that year and join the Blu-Ray consortium, but Microsoft pushed it to continue.
The first HD-DVD players weren’t ready until early 2006. Blu-Ray players debuted just weeks later, priced closer to $1000. By the end of that year, Microsoft began selling an external $200 HD-DVD player for the Xbox 360, just as Sony introduced its PlayStation 3 with an integrated Blu-Ray player.
HD War Games.
By the end of 2006, Microsoft had shipped ten million Xbox 360s to stores, while Sony had only sold a few hundred thousand units of the new PS3. However, Microsoft only sold a limited number of its optional HD-DVD drives to Xbox users, while every PS3 shipped with Blu-Ray capabilities.
Compared to standalone HD disc players, Sony’s PS3 not only offered the cheapest Blu-Ray system, but also did a variety of other things, including media downloads and of course games. Throughout 2007, Sony shipped nearly as many PS3 units (6.5 million) as Microsoft sold Xbox 360s (7.3 million). Again, every PS3 played Blu-Ray, while only a small number of Microsoft’s console buyers opted for the HD-DVD option.
Many PS3 buyers were buying them, not as game machines, but on the recommendation of sales people because it was the most economical Blu-Ray player. That surge of Blu-Ray players began creating a market for HD discs that greatly outnumbered the few hundred thousand HD disc players sold outside of the PS3.
The War on Microsoft.
While the PS3 pushed the Blu-Ray format over the goal line, the entire industry outside of Microsoft, Intel, and Toshiba was lined up behind Blu-Ray. There simply wasn’t any realistic chance that HD-DVD would prevail. This wasn’t a simple physical format war like the old VHS and Betamax rivalry; also at stake were the future of video codecs and embedded interactivity development. This was a battle for software and open markets that went far beyond HD disc movie playback.
Companies like Apple and Sun, neither of which had expressed any interest in building or selling HD discs, were unitedly opposed to HD-DVD because it meant Microsoft would expand its proprietary control over video codecs and the embedded software runtime used for interactivity. The industry in general has actively been pushing to rid itself of dependance upon Microsoft controlled standards.
Ten years ago in 1998, Apple, Sun, IBM, Netscape, Oracle, and Silicon Graphics all collectively backed QuickTime against Microsoft’s ASF as the new container for MPEG-4. ISO members subsequently selected QuickTime over ASF and set in motion the development of open standards for mobile, disc, and high definition media distribution using a standard set of codecs collectively maintained by the entire industry rather than beholden to a specific company.
Since then, Microsoft tried hard to push ASF, derail MPEG-4, and even created its own bastard version of MPEG-4 codecs under the name Windows Media 9. It also worked hard to establish its proprietary audio codecs in the field of portable media players. When those efforts all failed, Microsoft ran WM9 though a sham standards process that rebranded it as VC-1, and set up a satellite group of “partners” to advocate it, all of which were owned or directly controlled by Microsoft.
None of these efforts hid the reality that Microsoft wanted to simply duplicate in media what it had done to the PC desktop: copy existing technology, add proprietary hooks, and then sit back and tax the industry with software fees without adding any value. After having been burned repeatedly, the rest of the industry is now ready to shoot down every effort Microsoft makes to enslave innovation and progress.
Misinformation Wars.
Added to the strong showing of studios and manufacturers already supporting Blu-Ray since 2005, the impact of Sony’s integration of Blu-Ray on the PS3 left little room for the HD-DVD camp to maneuver. Microsoft’s efforts to support HD-DVD in Windows Vista and on the Xbox 360 had a limited effect because Vista turned out a commercial failure, and 360 sales were in a precipitous free fall, dropping 33% year over year in 2007. Sony had attached Blu-Ray to its PS3 rocket at launch while Microsoft tied two sandbags to HD-DVD: Vista and the Xbox 360.
Apple, Nintendo, and Sony were all working to push OpenGL against Microsoft’s proprietary DirectX. The video industry was pushing behind the ISO’s MPEG-4 H.264 and AAC, aided by the popularity of Apple’s iTunes, rather than the proprietary WMA and WMV/VC-1 codecs Microsoft was working to advance. The embedded industry favored Java over Microsoft’s latest proprietary efforts to own interactivity. HD-DVD died because the industry collectively worked to kill it as a proprietary monster that would enslave users, studios, and developers to Microsoft’s software. It wasn’t a simple disc format struggle.
The public wasn’t aware of what was going on behind the scenes because Microsoft worked diligently to spin a misinformation campaign that suggested that HD-DVD would be cheaper, more open, and deliver more content. Backers were fed talking points that insisted that HD-DVD discs were cheaper to create, that the Chinese would pump out ultra cheap players to support Microsoft, and that HD-DVD’s DRM was somehow easier to get around than Blu-Ray. This was all false.
When charged with the reality that Microsoft is nothing more than a marketing organization pushing inferior technology tied to proprietary standards that will later be leveraged to extort higher prices, the company responds with a smoke screen that declares that its products will be first-to-market and supported by lowballing Chinese manufacturers. At the same time however, Microsoft has only ever delivered late, inferior products that have a higher total cost of ownership. Its supporters have worked hard to bury this reality even as Microsoft continues to raise prices on poor products that have limited competition, such as Windows Vista.
Reality Distortion.
Despite the industry’s widespread backing of Blu-Ray, Microsoft similarly worked hard to create the illusion that HD-DVD was a viable product. This was critical because HD-DVD was Microsoft’s last effort to force the adoption of VC-1 and HDi. It had already failed to successfully use WinCE in any other embedded market, from smartphones to music players to handheld computers, and had similarly failed to establish Windows Media as a download format against the ISO’s AAC and H.264, widely popularized by Apple’s iTunes.
In a final act of desperation, the HD-DVD camp signed up Paramount and DreamWorks as new exclusive movie studios for HD-DVD. This pitted roughly half of the studios behind each of the two rival formats, with Warner Bros. being unique in offering titles in both formats. Microsoft’s efforts to prolong the format war had nothing to do with players or media, and everything to do with forwarding its proprietary software.
However, consumers were confused by the format uncertainty, which helped to slow sales across the board. Irritated by Microsoft’s refusal to cooperate, Warner Bros. announced a pullout of HD-DVD support right before CES, yanking the plug on Microsoft’s HD-DVD marketing push planned for the show. That signaled an enthusiastic redrawing of the watershed of support behind Blu-Ray, from retailers like WalMart to movie rental groups including Blockbuster and Netflix, and ultimately to Toshiba as HD-DVD’s hardware producer.
What the Death of HD-DVD Means.
HD-DVD is dead, and with it dies Microsoft’s aspirations to inject its proprietary software in media development. This is also a big strike against VC-1; despite being written into the Blu-Ray standard along with the ISO’s H.264, most Blu-Ray developers are moving toward H.264, which not only allows them to master HD discs, but also deliver mobile and downloadable versions using the same codec for playback on devices such as the PSP and iPod.
The death of HD-DVD also presents further evidence that Microsoft is increasingly incapable of pushing its own proprietary standards using its Windows monopoly. Building support for HD-DVD into Windows Vista did almost nothing to shore up support for the format, and tying it to the Xbox 360 similarly did little to push things toward the outcome Microsoft wanted.
In the 90s, Microsoft maintained an invincible aura praised by loyal pundits; it defeated small companies, bought up rivals and destroyed them, slit its partners’ throats, and put startups out of business. It only ever gave the appearance of maintaining strong relationships with its partner companies. However, in the last ten years, that strong facade has been destroyed by a series of very public failures:
WinCE helped to destroy Palm, but did nothing to advance the state of the art and has since fallen into a distant and increasingly irrelevant third place in smartphones. It has become similarly irrelevant in the small handheld computer market for which it was created, and has failed as an embedded system. Microsoft moved its UMPC plans to use its desktop Windows, dropped any hope of using WinCE as the basis for game consoles, and most recently bought up Java-based Danger to replace WinCE as its mobile strategy. If Microsoft is fully abandoning WinCE, why should partners stick around?
Windows XP has floated along as the default choice for PC consumers, but when Microsoft tried to raise the price and tack on fluff features with the Vista rebranding, buyers demanded to upgrade to the previous version. Microsoft is still shipping Vista to manufacturers, but corporations and end users are frequently reverting to Windows XP, killing Microsoft’s ability to leverage its market position to push new proprietary standards and raise prices for features that were once included for free, such as standard networking.
The Xbox 360 had a strong showing in its first year, but was still unable to match the sales of Sony’s PS2. In its second year, it not only fell behind sales of the original Xbox, but also fell 33% year over year as buyers shifted their attention to the newer Nintendo Wii and PS3. The Wii outsold the 360 in 2007 and the PS3 came within a stones throw of matching its sales. Going forward, there is no reason for thinking 360 sales will dramatically turn around, as sales fell this year despite the arrival of major hit new games.
In contrast, after a slow initial start in its first year, Sony’s PS2 grew dramatically year over year back to back in 2001 and 2002, and maintained annual sales well above the Xbox 360’s 2006 peak for over six years, selling an average of 16.8 million per year over its seven year lifespan. Sony has similar long term plans for the PS3, while Microsoft has been unable to sell a game console with a lifespan over four years. The 360 is having a late life crisis just as the PS3 is beginning to sell in adolescent volume.
Microsoft’s monopoly power is dissolving, and its ability to create anti-competitive partnerships and exclusive alliances is also falling apart. Its hardware partners have been led on wild goose chases with WinCE, desktop Windows, PlaysForSure, and now HD-DVD, leaving alliances with Microsoft looking more like charity exercises than business decisions.
Misinformation Is and Misinformation Does.
With the mask pulled off the bluffing, blustering HD-DVD, it becomes clearer that the talking points generated by Microsoft’s supporters all have the same source. As new promises are made about the imminent arrival of cheap new hardware from Chinese dumping, new partnerships just around the corner, and the power of Microsoft’s monopoly to make the improbable happen, it will now be increasingly difficult for the public to swallow them.
Those assurances applied not only to the failure of HD-DVD but also the failure of the Zune, which was similarly supposed to take on the world with Toshiba and turn into a Chinese mass production established in place by the influence of Windows and the Xbox. Instead, MTV’s Urge defected from its Zune store partnership with Microsoft to join Real’s rival Rhapsody music store, and Microsoft never even built any significant integration between the Zune and Xbox.
The Xbox itself was also supposed to rapidly turn around in price, but it soon be came clear that the Xbox 360 was actually more expensive to buy compared to the PS3 for users who get a hard drive, HD disc player, wireless networking, and other features left off Xbox models. In order to hide the fact that Xbox sales are dramatically tapering off, pundits only ever counted the 360, PS3, and Wii in cumulative numbers. No other market uses installed base to compare sales. Microsoft certainly doesn’t talk about installed base when comparing the Zune to the iPod.
If the Zune had sold a respectable number of units, it would be praised for its achievement rather than compared to the total number of iPods sold in previous years. Instead, Microsoft gerrymandered a market for “30GB hard drive based music players” in order to briefly claim a slice approaching 10% of weekly sales numbers.
The End of A Great Illusion.
The reality is that Microsoft is forced to falsify reports and color numbers because reality doesn’t support the illusion of Microsoft’s unquestionable market power. The company is failing in consumer electronics, and every year that passes makes its losses greater and its accomplishments less impressive.
With shrinking sales, the 360 isn’t going to hold off expansion of the PS3. With the death of HD-DVD, Microsoft isn’t going to push into media sales and production. With fire sales of the Zune, Apple is not going to lose its iPod business to the same company that already failed to take it on with its PlaysForSure partners.
The death of HD-DVD says more about Microsoft and its future than the general media seems to recognize. It’s not a format war, its a culture war between industry players working to advance the state of the art collectively in partnerships, and one company working to own everything while contributing very little. It’s not hard to see why Microsoft’s bruised and abused former partners are working to align themselves with open solutions rather than buy into more pain with technology tied to Microsoft. That’s very bad news for a company that exists solely as a licensee of third rate product ideas.
The death of HD-DVD is another lethal wound for Microsoft’s dying empire.
Both Universal and Paramount are technically still in the HD-DVD camp, too. I'm sure they are just giving lip service until they can legally back out.
I'm sure their contracts stipulate that if Toshiba drops HD DVD, they're immediately free of their contracts.
PS: Funny, we haven't heard any blather from the HD-DVD advocates on this thread in a several days. I wonder why that is?
You just can't hear them over the sound of the Blu-Ray fanboys patting themselves on the back.
Both Universal and Paramount are technically still in the HD-DVD camp, too. I'm sure they are just giving lip service until they can legally back out.
PS: Funny, we haven't heard any blather from the HD-DVD advocates on this thread in a several days. I wonder why that is?
Probably because, unlike the folk who just like to bicker, we realized it was over back in January with the Warner announcement.
Cory did paramount make any announcement on Blu Ray yet? I know Universal said they will be backing it now.
Yes, Paramount has released a statement regarding their intentions.
He then quotes a long article about how Microsoft's power is waning, as if anyone doubts that.
Marz, reread my post again. It had NOTHING TO DO WITH MICROSOFT's motives for supporting HD-DVD.
Episode 1 and 2 sucked donkey balls, but episode III was awesome, what are you talking about?
Parts of ep 1 were ok, its when the kid popped up... it started to fail miserably, hardly the kids fault.. only NOW can I say that. GL shouldn't have laid the biggest movie franchise ever known at the feet of a child actor.
ep 2, what happened in it? oh yeah Chris Lee gets to be onscreen, completing the double act of his buddy peter Cushing landing a role in 77' (love those actors) and this time it felt like ben wasnt quite the idiot from ep 1 but then again he WAS acting against a cardboard cut out of an actor.
ep 3 return of the payoff. it did deliver in CGI amazed was I, frank oz's yoda is well, to paraphrase star trek "It's GREEN" and again, Chris Lee.
but darth vader went from THE badest of badasses to a week and feeble incidental hat basket.
pityful.
It's funny but sad. I post about how HD-DVD supporters favoured a cheaper solution and lesser DRM and Marz responds with a silly strawman argument invoking the dreaded Microsoft.
He then quotes a long article about how Microsoft's power is waning, as if anyone doubts that.
Marz, reread my post again. It had NOTHING TO DO WITH MICROSOFT's motives for supporting HD-DVD.
dont you love people like that? he posts a crap article with insane amounts of misinformation that was actually talking about misinformation lol.
and dont you just love the spin? yes the ps3 is picking up steam while the 360 is falling off.. yeah, while having the biggest holiday season in gaming history and having the biggest entertainment day of all time (halo 3's release).
ah, the FUD
Because we've said our piece. It's not the first time the ignorant masses have been hoodwinked by big money interests and it won't be the last.
What? you mean you would buy another Proprietary Toshiba format backed by Microsoft?
I guess you will never learn
The word "proprietary" indicates that a party, or proprietor, exercises private ownership, control or use over an item of property, usually to the exclusion of other parties.
....
Proprietary components are components that are unique to a specific manufacturer, and do not conform to preset standards.
As you can see, this definition applies to both Blu-ray and HD DVD. However, in neither case were the proprietors exercising their control to the exclusion of other parties.
Is it really worth the effort to shovel on some more FUD about a dead format?
What? you mean you would buy another Proprietary Toshiba format backed by Microsoft?
I guess you will never learn
It seems Walter hasn't " moved on ".
Most HD-DVD backers supported the format because it was the cheaper route
Which was a false assumption because Toshiba was loosing hundreds per player sold.
double sided discs cost more.
to a better experience
better experience? with less studio support? with less room on the disc? with more expensive double sided discs? a situation that placed the consumer in a position where they were tied to a SINGLE source of players, ie a proprietary format. mm better indeed.
and/or because it was the format with lesser DRM.
I guess thats why DVD failed as a format too, its DRM was just as "difficult" to break at the beginning of its life as well, not to mention that only 2 of the studios have included the extra DRM.
And WHY is no DRM so important to you, do you intend to rip content illegally? its a constant gripe, like you own shares in bit torrent
In a world when funds are scarce to deal with massive social problems and privacy is a concern, both are honourable principles.
Irrelevant rantings at best in regard to a next gen optical format, of which HD-DVD WAS one, yet apparently you at no time sought to attach these "problems" to HD-DVD, likely because it had such hidden costs to begin with and you swallowed the hyperbole, spin and P.R
In contrast, support from BR backers was almost solely contingent on the disc's larger capacity.
which is an actual verifiable and REAL advantage. Not being shackled to M$ teat, might have actually been an advantage as well.. you think?
Sony's fanboys sit somewhat blinded by their PS3s, seemingly not caring what goes on in the rest of the world and unable to connect the dots even when their own interests are threatened. Maybe Sony's put in rootkit in their heads.
Your irrelevant spin is almost a joy to behold, if it wasnt for the total lack of grip on anything approaching reality.. am I to gauge from your rambling muses that BD is responsible for world hunger?
Fanboyism prevailed, but HD-DVD supporters have nothing to apologize for, and will not.
No, I suppose you are right, nothing to answer for if ignorance is forgivable, but you were informed, so it must be blind slavish sheep lust to follow the M$ teat.
If all your argument comes down to is "boo hoo the "fanboyz" won, then I don't think you have the competency for reasoned thought to engage in discussion in the first place. but please do refute anything and everything WITHOUT resort to the "fanboy" non-argument.
face up to the reality because Toshiba eventually did, and admitted that they "had no chance to win"
if you want to blindly delude yourself that that was NOT the case, then fine, just don't inflict it on the rational people.
Wow. Here's an article I think pretty much slams any notion you've just proposed here. Funny thing is, you present the SAME arguments as Microsoft and just as their reasoning is poor, so is yours IMO. This article is SPOT ON.
I did support HD DVD for the reasons Frank777 listed. But, that guy's article is in print so he must be right. I must have been mistaken about my motivations.
I did have additional reasons for wanting HD DVD to win, but they didn't have much to do with why I went ahead and bought a player.
1. The arrogance of Blu-ray fanboys was just really really irritating me.
2. Much more importantly, as a content producer, admittedly a tiny one, HD DVD was much easier and cheaper for me to supply to my clients. I am able to supply HD DVD compatible HD discs right now without any additional investment. I could easily fit any wedding but a full Mass Catholic wedding on a single disc. For longer running programs I would've had to invest in an HD DVD burner, should they ever have made one.
But, now I'm looking at $1600-$1700 in additional investment because I have to offer Blu-ray if I want to offer HD. I'm so happy to be paying $17 apiece for printable blank discs instead of $2 for a printable blank DVD+RDL
Naturally it's a business investment that I will eventually make back. Eventually. But that doesn't change the fact that an HD DVD victory would've been much better for me.
Which was a false assumption because Toshiba was loosing hundreds per player sold.
double sided discs cost more.
Well that's true. Toshiba was definitely losing truckloads of money. Especially compared to the truckloads that Sony was making off of the PS3... oh wait. Another argument against HD DVD that also applies to Blu-ray. Why don't you stick with Blu-ray's actual advantages like capacity and eventual greater studio support.
Double sided discs were an annoying attempt to placate those asking "How come it don't play in my regular DVD player?" They were a failure on the part of the studios and not the fault of Toshiba or the HD DVD format.