+ SDK is already out, so every developer can play with emulator
+ Android is built on Java that has several advantages including: security, vastly larger developer community, superior IDEs, ease of development
+ service oriented architecture
+ all apps are equal, everything including the homescreen can be changed (you just need your app to say "Hello Android I can launch apps" and user can choose your app as the home screen)
+ openess of Google
+ Google already provided some apps like GoogleMaps, Webkit which can be even embedded into other applications
+ various APIs including GPS, speech recognition and speech synthesis etc.
... Google has different aproach than Apple, it doesn't want to control the whole device ... so it provides open platform to developers, so they can bring their apps to public as soon as Google Android hits the market
I agree with you in some way. The Android SDK is opened and base on Java which makes for easier to develop applications. And Android phone can be customize by the phone maker in many way... But the big difference is that it will be more difficult for a Android phone to attain the same level of UI experience than the iPhone. You just have to play some time with the Android Emulator to realize it. Android will be more polished over time but it is always more difficult for set of community to develop a good user interface than it is for a maker alone... Apple can dictate the behavior of the whole thing...
But it's two opposite and interesting approaches to building a phone.
So, does this delay point to a MacBook Pro event this Tuesday, even though everyone was assuming this Tuesday's event was certainly the SDK?
When I read this story, this also what I thought. Hopefully this is the case, but we have to remember that both the SDK delay and special event are rumors.
I think that new MacBook Pros are fairly imminent and as such the will be released at a special event this Tuesday. Wishful thinking perhaps...
I agree with you in some way. The Android SDK is opened and base on Java which makes for easier to develop applications. And Android phone can be customize by the phone maker in many way... But the big difference is that it will be more difficult for a Android phone to attain the same level of UI experience than the iPhone. You just have to play some time with the Android Emulator to realize it. Android will be more polished over time but it is always more difficult for set of community to develop a good user interface than it is for a maker alone... Apple can dictate the behavior of the whole thing...
But it's two opposite and interesting approaches to building a phone.
Yes, I agree with you too. Android however may be used in several ways. For example some manufacturer may choose to offer it's own set of applications that may (not) be comparable to Apple in terms of user experience. Apple is number one in usability and knows how to make user interfaces that are far ahead of competition. However independent developers can relatively simply develop new application and there is high probability that some of the developers will top Apple.
It depends a lot how companies offering Andoid will be able to choose good package for user, because many apps will have simply totally different user interfaces. It's good to have option as a customer though especially when both iPhone and Android are based on totally different approaches. Both Android and OS X use desktop-class kernels and are technologicaly comparable. And from my point of view Android is technologicaly/architecturaly more advanced, while OS X has leadership in UI.
I had Treos for 10 years. They were amazing in what they could do...change fonts in Word, Excel, Powerpoint. Control your computer remotely. Play movies. Work as a GPS with the external probe. All that with 64K of RAM.
Also there were famous programs that would crash the whole thing and yes render the phone useless. Yes sometimes in the middle of the street.
Lots of resets. Reset. Reset. Reset. Trying to make a call. The most famous nasty program was Butler. Butler was blamed for everything. It even corrupted the whole PC after Sync.
Somehow it did not seem so bad at the time. You'd think that one would be upset. Somehow being on the street with no phone and a sick PC were things one got out of.
Lost data. Several crashes. It did happen. There were 25,000 Treo applications. Some free. Some expensive. Some super complicated with 200 page manuals. Fancy calendars. Voice recognition. You name it.
A wait of a month is nothing. I remember sometimes it would take a month or two to find combinations of programs that created resets and freezes. Sudden high volume attacks. PC crashes after sync. Butler and BKdate5? Super crash. Fix one, another would pop up.
There are two ways to do this. Make the applications super nice behaved with plenty of controls. Or let it out crazy like. The crazy approach creates more creativity and flexibility. The other way tends to make things more stable.
Even with controls, 10 or 50 new applications will create trouble.
Lost data. Several crashes. It did happen. There were 25,000 Treo applications. Some free. Some expensive. Some super complicated with 200 page manuals. Fancy calendars. Voice recognition. You name it.
Android architecture is totally different from Treo I guess. You have no problem with crashing the phone because of a application running in virtual machine. Also aplications cannot influence each other except sending messages. There are no pointers rovering thorough system like in C-family languages. Security is ensured without need to signing applications.
And about manuals: depends on specific application, there will be many developers with different experience and difrent quality of products. Apple is not the only one who can create good user interfaces. The fact that Microsoft and similar are unable to create user friendly OS doesn't mean that there are no user-friendly applications from other developers.
Apple never announced an event for this Tuesday. Rumors were based on it being the last possible Tuesday in the month. Typically Apple invites the press days in advance for any "event." The roll out of new MacBook Pros would be such an event, but the lack of press invitations signals not this month. The SDK however, does not need an event to be released, since it's aimed at developers not the public. I've expected Apple to have an event for it, and to preview some already existing third party apps. But that may not be the case.
So, does this delay point to a MacBook Pro event this Tuesday, even though everyone was assuming this Tuesday's event was certainly the SDK?
What event? The 'big 26th event' myth was debunked within the last week, there never was one. Either way the I'm expcting the release of the iPhone SDK will be the same as all the other developer releases, I'll get an email telling me the new iPhone SDK is available, possibly as part of a new XCode download, that will be it.
What event? The 'big 26th event' myth was debunked within the last week, there never was one. Either way the I'm expcting the release of the iPhone SDK will be the same as all the other developer releases, I'll get an email telling me the new iPhone SDK is available, possibly as part of a new XCode download, that will be it.
There will always be enough bunk in the future to make up for it.
Waiting another few weeks for the iPhone SDK won't be a tragedy (and I have a vested interest in getting my hands on it). But Apple's recent inability to accurately estimate their deadlines is a little annoying.
The reason for the delay is almost certainly the obvious one - it's *not ready*. No mystery, people.
Like everything else coming out from Apple recently, the SDK gets delayed also. This will have some negative impact on the iPhone sales and potentially the AAPL stock .
Anybody knows when was the last time they had 4 GB refurbished iPhones on the Apple store? End of November, I think but I remember reading they re-appeared in February also. I so want one right now . Any chance all those 4 GB demo models will become available again. Let's say just right before the 32 GB version comes out?
if only Steve had said first quarter instead of Feb., they wouldn't "potentially" be in this mess now..
Apple should let us know of a there is a delay asap so every knows where they stand and we can move on.. just say sorry not ready yet but it will be available on march whatever. It would suck but people may respect being kept in the loop.
if only Steve had said first quarter instead of Feb., they wouldn't "potentially" be in this mess now..
Apple should let us know of a there is a delay asap so every knows where they stand and we can move on.. just say sorry not ready yet but it will be available on march whatever. It would suck but people may respect being kept in the loop.
Maybe this is an aside to this topic but are people here deluded into thinking that "Steve" is their friend and let's them in on the inner workings of Apple and its decision processes? Steve's loyalty is to the shareholder and the current Mrs. Jobs. Period. If "Steve" could get us to buy air without providing an oxygen component, he would. Steve Jobs and Apple are not our friends. They are a company that survives on our good graces and our ability to purchase their products. What do you think would happen if there was a one month boycott of Apple products? They would have a sh..t hemorrhage. As long as Apple feels they can treat customers the way they do and have a hard core base of apologists, there is no reason for them to change their behavior.
P.S. Didn't mean to sound so cynical but the truth is the truth.
Well this sucks. Hopefully it doesn't get delayed more than this. Any ideas as to why?
I don't know that there has to be a better "why" than that in a complicated project, things crop up and you have to deal with them.
But there's a point I don't think I've seen brought up: remember that the iPhone OS X team contains a lot of the top-tier regular OS X team. Remember that huge 10.5.2 update? I wonder if that was a distraction for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Has any one consider the possibility that the 3G iPhone isn't ready and that they want to time the release of both.
I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. My memory is that Steve Jobs had said "late 2008", with a "maybe" tossed in for good measure.
I don't know that there has to be a better "why" than that in a complicated project, things crop up and you have to deal with them.
But there's a point I don't think I've seen brought up: remember that the iPhone OS X team contains a lot of the top-tier regular OS X team. Remember that huge 10.5.2 update? I wonder if that was a distraction for them.
I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. My memory is that Steve Jobs had said "late 2008", with a "maybe" tossed in for good measure.
Thanks for a great common sense post Ronbo. To see grown adults whine and moan over this is more than amusing. Things happen, delays happen. The very same ones complaining that there is a delay will be the same ones complaining that Apple should have taken their time and done it properly.
Maybe this is an aside to this topic but are people here deluded into thinking that "Steve" is their friend and let's them in on the inner workings of Apple and its decision processes? Steve's loyalty is to the shareholder and the current Mrs. Jobs. Period. If "Steve" could get us to buy air without providing an oxygen component, he would. Steve Jobs and Apple are not our friends. They are a company that survives on our good graces and our ability to purchase their products. What do you think would happen if there was a one month boycott of Apple products? They would have a sh..t hemorrhage. As long as Apple feels they can treat customers the way they do and have a hard core base of apologists, there is no reason for them to change their behavior.
P.S. Didn't mean to sound so cynical but the truth is the truth.
There is a difference between Cynicism and Despite. The former sometimes shows us the truth, the latter almost never does.
For those who have followed Apple for a long time, Jobs' greatest loyalty seems to be to some sort of inner vision. Call it obsessiveness, compulsiveness, perfectionism, being a control freak, or whatever. Personally, having seen the astuteness with which that vision leads to great products, I'm happy to give the man a pass. But there have been long stretches of time when his determination to follow that vision were felt to be disservices to the shareholders. He does seek high margins. That's life. There's an enormous R&D budget at Apple, too.
It's not being an apologist to tell someone to grow up a little.
Comments
And if I were to take a wild potshot, I guess the delay has something to do with Apple/Adobe/Flash still not meeting eye-to-eye:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8061
I can guess just as good as anyone else.
Well Apple has the iPhone, but good for Android:
+ SDK is already out, so every developer can play with emulator
+ Android is built on Java that has several advantages including: security, vastly larger developer community, superior IDEs, ease of development
+ service oriented architecture
+ all apps are equal, everything including the homescreen can be changed (you just need your app to say "Hello Android I can launch apps" and user can choose your app as the home screen)
+ openess of Google
+ Google already provided some apps like GoogleMaps, Webkit which can be even embedded into other applications
+ various APIs including GPS, speech recognition and speech synthesis etc.
... Google has different aproach than Apple, it doesn't want to control the whole device ... so it provides open platform to developers, so they can bring their apps to public as soon as Google Android hits the market
I agree with you in some way. The Android SDK is opened and base on Java which makes for easier to develop applications. And Android phone can be customize by the phone maker in many way... But the big difference is that it will be more difficult for a Android phone to attain the same level of UI experience than the iPhone. You just have to play some time with the Android Emulator to realize it. Android will be more polished over time but it is always more difficult for set of community to develop a good user interface than it is for a maker alone... Apple can dictate the behavior of the whole thing...
But it's two opposite and interesting approaches to building a phone.
So, does this delay point to a MacBook Pro event this Tuesday, even though everyone was assuming this Tuesday's event was certainly the SDK?
When I read this story, this also what I thought. Hopefully this is the case, but we have to remember that both the SDK delay and special event are rumors.
I think that new MacBook Pros are fairly imminent and as such the will be released at a special event this Tuesday. Wishful thinking perhaps...
I agree with you in some way. The Android SDK is opened and base on Java which makes for easier to develop applications. And Android phone can be customize by the phone maker in many way... But the big difference is that it will be more difficult for a Android phone to attain the same level of UI experience than the iPhone. You just have to play some time with the Android Emulator to realize it. Android will be more polished over time but it is always more difficult for set of community to develop a good user interface than it is for a maker alone... Apple can dictate the behavior of the whole thing...
But it's two opposite and interesting approaches to building a phone.
Yes, I agree with you too. Android however may be used in several ways. For example some manufacturer may choose to offer it's own set of applications that may (not) be comparable to Apple in terms of user experience. Apple is number one in usability and knows how to make user interfaces that are far ahead of competition. However independent developers can relatively simply develop new application and there is high probability that some of the developers will top Apple.
It depends a lot how companies offering Andoid will be able to choose good package for user, because many apps will have simply totally different user interfaces. It's good to have option as a customer though especially when both iPhone and Android are based on totally different approaches. Both Android and OS X use desktop-class kernels and are technologicaly comparable. And from my point of view Android is technologicaly/architecturaly more advanced, while OS X has leadership in UI.
whats an SDK anyways? Sounds useless.
Also there were famous programs that would crash the whole thing and yes render the phone useless. Yes sometimes in the middle of the street.
Lots of resets. Reset. Reset. Reset. Trying to make a call. The most famous nasty program was Butler. Butler was blamed for everything. It even corrupted the whole PC after Sync.
Somehow it did not seem so bad at the time. You'd think that one would be upset. Somehow being on the street with no phone and a sick PC were things one got out of.
Lost data. Several crashes. It did happen. There were 25,000 Treo applications. Some free. Some expensive. Some super complicated with 200 page manuals. Fancy calendars. Voice recognition. You name it.
A wait of a month is nothing. I remember sometimes it would take a month or two to find combinations of programs that created resets and freezes. Sudden high volume attacks. PC crashes after sync. Butler and BKdate5? Super crash. Fix one, another would pop up.
There are two ways to do this. Make the applications super nice behaved with plenty of controls. Or let it out crazy like. The crazy approach creates more creativity and flexibility. The other way tends to make things more stable.
Even with controls, 10 or 50 new applications will create trouble.
Here comes the party!
Lost data. Several crashes. It did happen. There were 25,000 Treo applications. Some free. Some expensive. Some super complicated with 200 page manuals. Fancy calendars. Voice recognition. You name it.
Android architecture is totally different from Treo I guess. You have no problem with crashing the phone because of a application running in virtual machine. Also aplications cannot influence each other except sending messages. There are no pointers rovering thorough system like in C-family languages. Security is ensured without need to signing applications.
And about manuals: depends on specific application, there will be many developers with different experience and difrent quality of products. Apple is not the only one who can create good user interfaces. The fact that Microsoft and similar are unable to create user friendly OS doesn't mean that there are no user-friendly applications from other developers.
...as AAPL slowly drifts to under $100...
And I have an itchy trigger finger on the "buy" button...
So, does this delay point to a MacBook Pro event this Tuesday, even though everyone was assuming this Tuesday's event was certainly the SDK?
What event? The 'big 26th event' myth was debunked within the last week, there never was one. Either way the I'm expcting the release of the iPhone SDK will be the same as all the other developer releases, I'll get an email telling me the new iPhone SDK is available, possibly as part of a new XCode download, that will be it.
What event? The 'big 26th event' myth was debunked within the last week, there never was one. Either way the I'm expcting the release of the iPhone SDK will be the same as all the other developer releases, I'll get an email telling me the new iPhone SDK is available, possibly as part of a new XCode download, that will be it.
There will always be enough bunk in the future to make up for it.
The reason for the delay is almost certainly the obvious one - it's *not ready*. No mystery, people.
Has any one consider the possibility that the 3G iPhone isn't ready and that they want to time the release of both.
Dave
This makes no sense. I have not seen where Apple even applied for a 3G license. No license = no 3G iPhone.
Anybody knows when was the last time they had 4 GB refurbished iPhones on the Apple store? End of November, I think but I remember reading they re-appeared in February also. I so want one right now
Apple should let us know of a there is a delay asap so every knows where they stand and we can move on.. just say sorry not ready yet but it will be available on march whatever. It would suck but people may respect being kept in the loop.
if only Steve had said first quarter instead of Feb., they wouldn't "potentially" be in this mess now..
Apple should let us know of a there is a delay asap so every knows where they stand and we can move on.. just say sorry not ready yet but it will be available on march whatever. It would suck but people may respect being kept in the loop.
Maybe this is an aside to this topic but are people here deluded into thinking that "Steve" is their friend and let's them in on the inner workings of Apple and its decision processes? Steve's loyalty is to the shareholder and the current Mrs. Jobs. Period. If "Steve" could get us to buy air without providing an oxygen component, he would. Steve Jobs and Apple are not our friends. They are a company that survives on our good graces and our ability to purchase their products. What do you think would happen if there was a one month boycott of Apple products? They would have a sh..t hemorrhage. As long as Apple feels they can treat customers the way they do and have a hard core base of apologists, there is no reason for them to change their behavior.
P.S. Didn't mean to sound so cynical but the truth is the truth.
Well this sucks. Hopefully it doesn't get delayed more than this. Any ideas as to why?
I don't know that there has to be a better "why" than that in a complicated project, things crop up and you have to deal with them.
But there's a point I don't think I've seen brought up: remember that the iPhone OS X team contains a lot of the top-tier regular OS X team. Remember that huge 10.5.2 update? I wonder if that was a distraction for them.
Has any one consider the possibility that the 3G iPhone isn't ready and that they want to time the release of both.
I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. My memory is that Steve Jobs had said "late 2008", with a "maybe" tossed in for good measure.
I don't know that there has to be a better "why" than that in a complicated project, things crop up and you have to deal with them.
But there's a point I don't think I've seen brought up: remember that the iPhone OS X team contains a lot of the top-tier regular OS X team. Remember that huge 10.5.2 update? I wonder if that was a distraction for them.
I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. My memory is that Steve Jobs had said "late 2008", with a "maybe" tossed in for good measure.
Thanks for a great common sense post Ronbo. To see grown adults whine and moan over this is more than amusing. Things happen, delays happen. The very same ones complaining that there is a delay will be the same ones complaining that Apple should have taken their time and done it properly.
Maybe this is an aside to this topic but are people here deluded into thinking that "Steve" is their friend and let's them in on the inner workings of Apple and its decision processes? Steve's loyalty is to the shareholder and the current Mrs. Jobs. Period. If "Steve" could get us to buy air without providing an oxygen component, he would. Steve Jobs and Apple are not our friends. They are a company that survives on our good graces and our ability to purchase their products. What do you think would happen if there was a one month boycott of Apple products? They would have a sh..t hemorrhage. As long as Apple feels they can treat customers the way they do and have a hard core base of apologists, there is no reason for them to change their behavior.
P.S. Didn't mean to sound so cynical but the truth is the truth.
There is a difference between Cynicism and Despite. The former sometimes shows us the truth, the latter almost never does.
For those who have followed Apple for a long time, Jobs' greatest loyalty seems to be to some sort of inner vision. Call it obsessiveness, compulsiveness, perfectionism, being a control freak, or whatever. Personally, having seen the astuteness with which that vision leads to great products, I'm happy to give the man a pass. But there have been long stretches of time when his determination to follow that vision were felt to be disservices to the shareholders. He does seek high margins. That's life. There's an enormous R&D budget at Apple, too.
It's not being an apologist to tell someone to grow up a little.