Well, I like the (slightly) increased speeds of the new MacBook processors, but why did they lower the L2 Cache? I'm also disappointed about them not giving the MB Multi-Touch trackpads, but... I can wait until they add them to switch from my 2.16ghz, 2gb MBP down to a 2.1+ghz, 4gb MB.
Also, a word to the wise. I have a MBP (2.16ghz CD, 2gb RAM) and a MB (2.0ghz C2D, 2gb RAM). As for people who are looking for a laptop, the MB is VERY capable of doing ANYTHING that my MBP can, except some games and high-end graphic design (and those limits are only there because of the video card). On a daily basis, the MB has longer battery life, and is almost identical speed-wise (I think usage habits and settings make-up the difference entirely). Plus, the MB runs at a cooler temp constantly. The only things that the MB cannot do are Port related, i.e. no ExpressCard slot, no dual-link dvi.
Well I finally got tired of waiting.
As much as I was wanting a MBP the speedbump on the MBP just didn't *wow* me (and the Penryn battery life differences seem to be negligible), that and the MB has spoiled me against the old style MBP keyboard. The reality is that I would've bought an AIR a couple weeks ago but for the lack of a single FW400 port (sigh).
Also, the bump on the blackbook was just not enough (2.2 GHz 4MB cache -> 2.4GHz 3MB??? cache and *still* no LED backlit displays) to warrant $1500 so I decided to get the previous model SR 2.2 GHz blackbook from the refurbished store for $1050 instead.
The only loss that I could see between the new blackbook and the previous generation is that the new one has 2GB RAM and 250GB 5400RPM HDD. Since I'll need 4GB anyway (Logic, Lightroom, Photoshop, etc.) the bump to 2GB would've been wasted on me. The larger hard drive would've been nice but I think I'll pick up a 320GB when they drop in price a bit at NewEgg (probably when the 500GB versions are released).
The good news is this leaves plenty of money in the budget to do something different if they release an updated MBP later this summer -- or if the MBs ever get LED backlit displays. And I can finally return my buddy's backup MB that I've been borrowing all this time (a very nice gesture but at the end of the day I really would rather have my own stuff).
[Edit:] Interestingly enough, I just checked and the blacktax for the new 2.4GHz Penryn blackbooks is now down to $100. (Of course it was a non-issue for the previous models in the refurb store.)
As much as I was wanting a MBP the speedbump on the MBP just didn't *wow* me (and the Penryn battery life differences seem to be negligible), that and the MB has spoiled me against the old style MBP keyboard. The reality is that I would've bought an AIR a couple weeks ago but for the lack of a single FW400 port (sigh).
Also, the bump on the blackbook was just not enough (2.2 GHz 4MB cache -> 2.4GHz 3MB??? cache and *still* no LED backlit displays) to warrant $1500 so I decided to get the previous model SR 2.2 GHz blackbook from the refurbished store for $1050 instead.
The only loss that I could see between the new blackbook and the previous generation is that the new one has 2GB RAM and 250GB 5400RPM HDD. Since I'll need 4GB anyway (Logic, Lightroom, Photoshop, etc.) the bump to 2GB would've been wasted on me. The larger hard drive would've been nice but I think I'll pick up a 320GB when they drop in price a bit at NewEgg (probably when the 500GB versions are released).
The good news is this leaves plenty of money in the budget to do something different if they release an updated MBP later this summer -- or if the MBs ever get LED backlit displays. And I can finally return my buddy's backup MB that I've been borrowing all this time (a very nice gesture but at the end of the day I really would rather have my own stuff).
[Edit:] Interestingly enough, I just checked and the blacktax for the new 2.4GHz Penryn blackbooks is now down to $100. (Of course it was a non-issue for the previous models in the refurb store.)
yah I was getting pissed off about the Cache as well.. but then people did speed/benchmark tests and it turned out that the cache was negligible. Actually in some test it stayed the same and others the 3mb cache turned out faster by a bit.
This update is good for me though, I was not expecting a case overhaul, or macbook like keyboard. I just wanted a bigger hard drive and more ghz.. that's basically it. Good enough to do my job
I just ordered 17" MBP 2.5Ghz High res LED screen 200gb hard drive (7200rpm) and I even bucked up for the remote which I'll prolly never use... $3200 of beauty, i think.
you just ordered the exact MBP i'll be getting, one of these days.
I'm not arguing this from the perspective of what would be nice for me. I'm not in the market for a MacBook, I'm waiting for the MacBook Pro redesign. I'm arguing this from a business perspective in that I think Apple would sell more MacBooks if the bottom config had a DVD burner drive.
Yes, they would sell more of the $1099 model. They don't want to do that. They want to sell more of the more expensive models.
Yes, they would sell more of the $1099 model. They don't want to do that. They want to sell more of the more expensive models.
fnnnnnrrrrrggggg! I'm talking about selling the $1099 model to people who are currently buggering off and buying PCs. i.e., selling more MacBooks in total, not just more of the $1099 model vs. the others. That would be dumb.
Yes, and if the the entry level had the burner, it would be a hard upsell to explain 3 things that the customer can't immediately identify with what the machine can do. DVD burning is a clear and easily-understandable feature that SEEMS to be worth some money. If told only about the extra memory, most customers would not cough up the $200.
Sorry but this cannot be exactly the reason. All the iMac models have DVD burners for some time now and the differentiation is based on CPU, GPU, RAM and HD capacity. Why not the same for the Macbooks?
There is no excuse for Apple to not have DVD burning accros the MB line not only by now, but by the previous update in November. Apple has already lost some sales because of this.
fnnnnnrrrrrggggg! I'm talking about selling the $1099 model to people who are currently buggering off and buying PCs. i.e., selling more MacBooks in total, not just more of the $1099 model vs. the others. That would be dumb.
I get what you're saying, but I think there is a fundamental difference between how Apple approaches the market and how PC makers approach it. On the PC side, it's very much a commodity market, especially in the low end. Apple has never really shown an interest in playing that game (the mini was as close as they got).
Apple's approach is, if you want a Mac, you'll get a Mac. You are buying it primarily because it's a Mac, not because of it's price. Apple wants to sell you a good computing experience, not a commodity. Once you've made the "get a Mac" decision, then it's a question of how expensive a model they can sell you (upsell). They are after all a for-profit business.
At the end of the day, I really don't think adding the DVD burner to the low-end MacBook would really make much of a difference in overall MacBook sales. Even if they added it, you'd still have people pointing to the $500 PC laptap. Sure, they'd get a probably very small increase in MacBook sales. But they'd have a lower profit margin on that low-end MacBook if they added the burner, and it would eat into sales of the higher profit margin mid-level MacBook. The end result is that they may sell more computer but make less profit.
Which brings up another key difference in Apple's approach. They don't chase market share. They don't sacrifice their profit margins to get a few 1/10ths of a percent of market share. There are many companies that think market share is king. Apple isn't one of them.
I agree. The Mbp is worth a little extra. I have an iBook and mbp I hate using the plastic case. The metal is more robust and doesn't mark. The extra screen space is worth it. And the whole machine will last a little longer.
Yes, and if the the entry level had the burner, it would be a hard upsell to explain 3 things that the customer can't immediately identify with what the machine can do. DVD burning is a clear and easily-understandable feature that SEEMS to be worth some money. If told only about the extra memory, most customers would not cough up the $200.
That statement is about two years out of date. If it were the iBook you would have a valid argument. However, in the meantime DVD burners have become standard. In fact the only other notebook I could find with a combo drive was a really crappy $500 Acer at wal-Mart. Every notebook on the market has a DVD burner except the Macbook and a $500 celeron acer. Not good company to keep. Also, users are a hell of a lot more intelligent than you think.
Quote:
I think Apple has those figures - you and I do not. If the figures showed lots of customers walking out, you would see a strategy change. Just as we saw with the 4GB and 8GB iPhones, many (and for iPhone, most) customers when faced with an upsell that is priced "just barely within" what they are willing to pay, will pay it. For those who just can't bring themselves to make the jump, at that point they are far enough into buying one that they will buy the entry-level.
Have you ever seen a survey from Apple asking users what they want? Do you ever see them reaching out to buyers who don't own Mac about what it would take to bring them over? Don't you also think that other computer makers would also have similar research? Why didn't this research work just before the switch to intel and before vista was found to be a complete joke?
Also, the more important brother to sales is return sales. Lets be honest here, most of us here wouldn't switch to windows not matter how disillusioned we are with Apple. With the exception of 18 horrid months I've been using Macs continuously since about '92, there are too many things engrained. The recent switchers are different. If they feel they got a bad deal at the end of the day, they'll buy something else. They did so after the original iMac boom in '99-2000. they went from $200m profits to several quarters with a net loss. I see a lot of that same arrogance that caused that little crash still around.
Yes, and if the the entry level had the burner, it would be a hard upsell to explain 3 things that the customer can't immediately identify with what the machine can do. DVD burning is a clear and easily-understandable feature that SEEMS to be worth some money. If told only about the extra memory, most customers would not cough up the $200.
"here's the faster processor, 1 GiB of additional RAM and 40 GB of HDD." There's your three items.
with Penryn available for notebooks, Apple had little choice but to incorporate it as an upgrade to their current MB/MBP lineup.
gesture trackpad missing in MB makes me angry. it's is not a fancy object like a backlit LED or a glowing keyboard.....hell people want a good input interface.
the lineup is more of a discounted buy rather than an upgrade. hope they do it better around centrino 2.
"here's the faster processor, 1 GiB of additional RAM and 40 GB of HDD." There's your three items.
Yes, those are the three items. I do not think that would result in nearly as many upsells as the DVD burner does. The customer, after being told about the RAM and the HD space, would point to the $1099 model and ask if there was anything the more expensive one could do that the $1099 could not. The answer is "no." No sale.
Yes, they are "crippling" the low-end model to get the upsell. Standard marketing/sales practice. If it did not work, they wouldn't keep doing it.
Do I personally care if they made it SuperDrive across the line? Not at all. I am just trying to explain why I think they are doing it the way they are doing it. They do not break down sales by model, but I would bet you that most people buy the more expensive one. It's a classic way to get the customer to compare two items and see that there is extra value, not just extra price, in the higher-priced model.
They have to keep margins up and keep average selling price up. Market share means jack if your profits are down. They are offering a strong incentive to buy the $1299 model, and the customer, rather than seeing the $1099 model as the cheapest, actually sees the $1299 model as a better deal.
Again, you guys are assuming that every customer sees that it has no DVD burner and takes off for the nearest PC website to order a PC. If they cared that much about that, they would have already found that out on the web and wouldn't be in the Apple Store in the first place.
Switchers are switching because of OS X and because they are fed up with Windows - not because of whatever is the cheapest for a list of features.
Has anyone had their MBP shipped yet? I ordered mine yesterday morning and then last night I received an email saying my order had been shipped and I was really surprised it went through so quick. Later on that night, I read my email again and it turns out that the only thing that was shipped was the sleeve that I also ordered for it \
I took in my macbook pro(2.2Ghz) to the apple store because of hardware test error with the logic board or sensor thing and they let me get the new macbook pro as a replacement swap. good thing i backed everything via TimeMachine. YAY, new, faster, and a bigger HD Macbook Pro. So i went from 2.2Ghz to 2.4Ghz, 128mb VRAM to 256mb VRAM, and 120GB HDD to 200GB HDD. Apple customer service is awesome.. Im nothing but smiles.
Comments
Apple sucks
Well, I like the (slightly) increased speeds of the new MacBook processors, but why did they lower the L2 Cache? I'm also disappointed about them not giving the MB Multi-Touch trackpads, but... I can wait until they add them to switch from my 2.16ghz, 2gb MBP down to a 2.1+ghz, 4gb MB.
Also, a word to the wise. I have a MBP (2.16ghz CD, 2gb RAM) and a MB (2.0ghz C2D, 2gb RAM). As for people who are looking for a laptop, the MB is VERY capable of doing ANYTHING that my MBP can, except some games and high-end graphic design (and those limits are only there because of the video card). On a daily basis, the MB has longer battery life, and is almost identical speed-wise (I think usage habits and settings make-up the difference entirely). Plus, the MB runs at a cooler temp constantly. The only things that the MB cannot do are Port related, i.e. no ExpressCard slot, no dual-link dvi.
Well I finally got tired of waiting.
As much as I was wanting a MBP the speedbump on the MBP just didn't *wow* me (and the Penryn battery life differences seem to be negligible), that and the MB has spoiled me against the old style MBP keyboard. The reality is that I would've bought an AIR a couple weeks ago but for the lack of a single FW400 port (sigh).
Also, the bump on the blackbook was just not enough (2.2 GHz 4MB cache -> 2.4GHz 3MB??? cache and *still* no LED backlit displays) to warrant $1500 so I decided to get the previous model SR 2.2 GHz blackbook from the refurbished store for $1050 instead.
The only loss that I could see between the new blackbook and the previous generation is that the new one has 2GB RAM and 250GB 5400RPM HDD. Since I'll need 4GB anyway (Logic, Lightroom, Photoshop, etc.) the bump to 2GB would've been wasted on me. The larger hard drive would've been nice but I think I'll pick up a 320GB when they drop in price a bit at NewEgg (probably when the 500GB versions are released).
The good news is this leaves plenty of money in the budget to do something different if they release an updated MBP later this summer -- or if the MBs ever get LED backlit displays. And I can finally return my buddy's backup MB that I've been borrowing all this time (a very nice gesture but at the end of the day I really would rather have my own stuff).
[Edit:] Interestingly enough, I just checked and the blacktax for the new 2.4GHz Penryn blackbooks is now down to $100. (Of course it was a non-issue for the previous models in the refurb store.)
Well I finally got tired of waiting.
As much as I was wanting a MBP the speedbump on the MBP just didn't *wow* me (and the Penryn battery life differences seem to be negligible), that and the MB has spoiled me against the old style MBP keyboard. The reality is that I would've bought an AIR a couple weeks ago but for the lack of a single FW400 port (sigh).
Also, the bump on the blackbook was just not enough (2.2 GHz 4MB cache -> 2.4GHz 3MB??? cache and *still* no LED backlit displays) to warrant $1500 so I decided to get the previous model SR 2.2 GHz blackbook from the refurbished store for $1050 instead.
The only loss that I could see between the new blackbook and the previous generation is that the new one has 2GB RAM and 250GB 5400RPM HDD. Since I'll need 4GB anyway (Logic, Lightroom, Photoshop, etc.) the bump to 2GB would've been wasted on me. The larger hard drive would've been nice but I think I'll pick up a 320GB when they drop in price a bit at NewEgg (probably when the 500GB versions are released).
The good news is this leaves plenty of money in the budget to do something different if they release an updated MBP later this summer -- or if the MBs ever get LED backlit displays. And I can finally return my buddy's backup MB that I've been borrowing all this time (a very nice gesture but at the end of the day I really would rather have my own stuff).
[Edit:] Interestingly enough, I just checked and the blacktax for the new 2.4GHz Penryn blackbooks is now down to $100. (Of course it was a non-issue for the previous models in the refurb store.)
yah I was getting pissed off about the Cache as well.. but then people did speed/benchmark tests and it turned out that the cache was negligible. Actually in some test it stayed the same and others the 3mb cache turned out faster by a bit.
This update is good for me though, I was not expecting a case overhaul, or macbook like keyboard. I just wanted a bigger hard drive and more ghz.. that's basically it. Good enough to do my job
My first Mac....my first high-end computer...YAY!!!
And what feels even better is that I saved up the cash to pay it off immediately.
I just ordered 17" MBP 2.5Ghz High res LED screen 200gb hard drive (7200rpm) and I even bucked up for the remote which I'll prolly never use... $3200 of beauty, i think.
you just ordered the exact MBP i'll be getting, one of these days.
I'm not arguing this from the perspective of what would be nice for me. I'm not in the market for a MacBook, I'm waiting for the MacBook Pro redesign. I'm arguing this from a business perspective in that I think Apple would sell more MacBooks if the bottom config had a DVD burner drive.
Yes, they would sell more of the $1099 model. They don't want to do that. They want to sell more of the more expensive models.
Yes, they would sell more of the $1099 model. They don't want to do that. They want to sell more of the more expensive models.
fnnnnnrrrrrggggg! I'm talking about selling the $1099 model to people who are currently buggering off and buying PCs. i.e., selling more MacBooks in total, not just more of the $1099 model vs. the others. That would be dumb.
Yes, and if the the entry level had the burner, it would be a hard upsell to explain 3 things that the customer can't immediately identify with what the machine can do. DVD burning is a clear and easily-understandable feature that SEEMS to be worth some money. If told only about the extra memory, most customers would not cough up the $200.
Sorry but this cannot be exactly the reason. All the iMac models have DVD burners for some time now and the differentiation is based on CPU, GPU, RAM and HD capacity. Why not the same for the Macbooks?
There is no excuse for Apple to not have DVD burning accros the MB line not only by now, but by the previous update in November. Apple has already lost some sales because of this.
fnnnnnrrrrrggggg! I'm talking about selling the $1099 model to people who are currently buggering off and buying PCs. i.e., selling more MacBooks in total, not just more of the $1099 model vs. the others. That would be dumb.
I get what you're saying, but I think there is a fundamental difference between how Apple approaches the market and how PC makers approach it. On the PC side, it's very much a commodity market, especially in the low end. Apple has never really shown an interest in playing that game (the mini was as close as they got).
Apple's approach is, if you want a Mac, you'll get a Mac. You are buying it primarily because it's a Mac, not because of it's price. Apple wants to sell you a good computing experience, not a commodity. Once you've made the "get a Mac" decision, then it's a question of how expensive a model they can sell you (upsell). They are after all a for-profit business.
At the end of the day, I really don't think adding the DVD burner to the low-end MacBook would really make much of a difference in overall MacBook sales. Even if they added it, you'd still have people pointing to the $500 PC laptap. Sure, they'd get a probably very small increase in MacBook sales. But they'd have a lower profit margin on that low-end MacBook if they added the burner, and it would eat into sales of the higher profit margin mid-level MacBook. The end result is that they may sell more computer but make less profit.
Which brings up another key difference in Apple's approach. They don't chase market share. They don't sacrifice their profit margins to get a few 1/10ths of a percent of market share. There are many companies that think market share is king. Apple isn't one of them.
Yes, and if the the entry level had the burner, it would be a hard upsell to explain 3 things that the customer can't immediately identify with what the machine can do. DVD burning is a clear and easily-understandable feature that SEEMS to be worth some money. If told only about the extra memory, most customers would not cough up the $200.
That statement is about two years out of date. If it were the iBook you would have a valid argument. However, in the meantime DVD burners have become standard. In fact the only other notebook I could find with a combo drive was a really crappy $500 Acer at wal-Mart. Every notebook on the market has a DVD burner except the Macbook and a $500 celeron acer. Not good company to keep. Also, users are a hell of a lot more intelligent than you think.
I think Apple has those figures - you and I do not. If the figures showed lots of customers walking out, you would see a strategy change. Just as we saw with the 4GB and 8GB iPhones, many (and for iPhone, most) customers when faced with an upsell that is priced "just barely within" what they are willing to pay, will pay it. For those who just can't bring themselves to make the jump, at that point they are far enough into buying one that they will buy the entry-level.
Have you ever seen a survey from Apple asking users what they want? Do you ever see them reaching out to buyers who don't own Mac about what it would take to bring them over? Don't you also think that other computer makers would also have similar research? Why didn't this research work just before the switch to intel and before vista was found to be a complete joke?
Also, the more important brother to sales is return sales. Lets be honest here, most of us here wouldn't switch to windows not matter how disillusioned we are with Apple. With the exception of 18 horrid months I've been using Macs continuously since about '92, there are too many things engrained. The recent switchers are different. If they feel they got a bad deal at the end of the day, they'll buy something else. They did so after the original iMac boom in '99-2000. they went from $200m profits to several quarters with a net loss. I see a lot of that same arrogance that caused that little crash still around.
Yes, and if the the entry level had the burner, it would be a hard upsell to explain 3 things that the customer can't immediately identify with what the machine can do. DVD burning is a clear and easily-understandable feature that SEEMS to be worth some money. If told only about the extra memory, most customers would not cough up the $200.
"here's the faster processor, 1 GiB of additional RAM and 40 GB of HDD." There's your three items.
When is Apple going to put an LED backlight on the MacBook?
I'm waiting.
That is all.
gesture trackpad missing in MB makes me angry. it's is not a fancy object like a backlit LED or a glowing keyboard.....hell people want a good input interface.
the lineup is more of a discounted buy rather than an upgrade. hope they do it better around centrino 2.
"here's the faster processor, 1 GiB of additional RAM and 40 GB of HDD." There's your three items.
Yes, those are the three items. I do not think that would result in nearly as many upsells as the DVD burner does. The customer, after being told about the RAM and the HD space, would point to the $1099 model and ask if there was anything the more expensive one could do that the $1099 could not. The answer is "no." No sale.
Yes, they are "crippling" the low-end model to get the upsell. Standard marketing/sales practice. If it did not work, they wouldn't keep doing it.
Do I personally care if they made it SuperDrive across the line? Not at all. I am just trying to explain why I think they are doing it the way they are doing it. They do not break down sales by model, but I would bet you that most people buy the more expensive one. It's a classic way to get the customer to compare two items and see that there is extra value, not just extra price, in the higher-priced model.
They have to keep margins up and keep average selling price up. Market share means jack if your profits are down. They are offering a strong incentive to buy the $1299 model, and the customer, rather than seeing the $1099 model as the cheapest, actually sees the $1299 model as a better deal.
Again, you guys are assuming that every customer sees that it has no DVD burner and takes off for the nearest PC website to order a PC. If they cared that much about that, they would have already found that out on the web and wouldn't be in the Apple Store in the first place.
Switchers are switching because of OS X and because they are fed up with Windows - not because of whatever is the cheapest for a list of features.
When is Apple going to make the hard drive in the MacBook Pro easily accessible?
When is Apple going to put an LED backlight on the MacBook?
I'm waiting.
That is all.
Hopefully with the next revision.