Is this service service somehow tied to the iPhone? Seems to any PDA/laptop/cell phone that meets the min requirements should be able to connect and access these services. I don't see why you would need an iPhone/iPod specifically.
In addition to people preceptions about the brand and the iPod's existing user base, I think the advantage is not in the phone but the infrastructure to handle losts of small transactions apple already has in place with iTunes.
Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology. How do you allow for or purport that Apple itself is people centric? Maybe people centric for White, higher income (and children thereof) Western males? It makes me uneasy when I see a corporate hegemony anywhere and especially in Academia. That is not to say that Microsoft is any better. It is to say though that corporations are profit driven entities and none should be given a free pass nor be immune from criticism.
As markoh points out above, this use of technology does not require hardware and software
from any particular vendor. Describing Apple's trial program as hegemony is way
over-dramatic. If you want a more appropriate target for your malaise, consider the
corporate domination of funding research projects in "academia", and all its
I'm very surprised that posters to AI don't know about Apple's corporate policies toward labor practices in China. They are very strict in most of the things that Freethinker accuses them of in his comment (assuming he's male).
Just last year, Apple sent their representatives to China to investigate abuses at factories that make Apple products after a complaint was made. Check out Apple's corporate site to see their polices. Apple demands decent wages and good working condition for Chinese workers. If manufacturers don't agree and bide by the polices, they don't get the contract.
So, FREETHINKER's comment above isn't well thought out or knowledgeable.
If you want to really get chills, Check out Naomi Klein's 'Shock Doctrine'.
Neither of the fringes have a lot to brag about.
I'm not promoting any system, they all have flaws. To think anything else would be naive. Some systems are more open on not being fair than others. The sad thing with communism is that it is a nice thought (serious) but that humans are not suited to implement it. If capitalism favors someone successful it's just proved that the idea is working. There are other flaws in capitalism and democracies and corruption exists in all systems where humans are present.
I don't think he's implying anything nefarious by Apple at all. It's okay, I think he agrees with you and is trying to avoid accusations from people sensitive to Apple acting like a greedy corporate monster. He's pointing out that Apple hasn't sought out to be a big brother presence on the universities, the universities approached Apple.
cj, I agree. But your perception of Apple's presence in education is incorrect. Apple, right from the introduction of the Mac and now has made continuing efforts in this arena besides monetary, (http://images.apple.com/education/fi...nection_DS.pdf) with its Learning Interchange (http://edcommunity.apple.com/ali/ amongst many other initiatives.
Apple is a great corporation in that it promotes ingenuity and radical technology that makes a whole bunch of people's lives better. I am proud to own a MBP and Ipod and I have had minimal problems with each. But I also try my best not to buy products made by slave labor. No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift. I think that we should press the corporations we love and envision as trendsetters to do more to ensure a fair trade, if you will, of goods and services throughout the world. It is not being idealistic. It is instead being pragmatic. We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.
No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift.
Thats all.
I have a couple of problems with your slander. One is that it is not accurate. The second is that I don't agree with the statement that the cost of living does not matter.
For better accuracy, try using a not-outdated source that shows conditions considered to be unacceptable by Apple. The one you cite is before an investigation where Apple stated they are unacceptable conditions. The results of the investigation show there were conditions being used that did not meet Apple standards and a plan of action has been implemented. Here is the AI article:
So, their policy is an average 10 hour work day, which is long, but not 15 hrs by a long shot.
The article I linked to also shows that the pay scale was difficult to understand because it integrated costs paid for housing, food and other such things. I bet the $1.60/day is the ugliest looking figure possible - not accounting for other benefits. If you take out what I pay for living expenses these people don't have to pay for from my paycheck (housing, water, food, transportation to and from work, etc) my salary sounds much worse than it really is.
Lastly, I don't pretend that this is the case, but to make a point, if I lived in a country where I could buy all the clothes I need, receive health care, have enough money for some recreation and meet my daily living requirements for $40/month I would gladly take it over living in Califormia, where a $75,000/yr salary can feel like lower class.
Apple is a great corporation in that it promotes ingenuity and radical technology that makes a whole bunch of people's lives better. I am proud to own a MBP and Ipod and I have had minimal problems with each. But I also try my best not to buy products made by slave labor. No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift. I think that we should press the corporations we love and envision as trendsetters to do more to ensure a fair trade, if you will, of goods and services throughout the world. It is not being idealistic. It is instead being pragmatic. We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.
Thats all.
If you really believe that way, then why do you slight Apple for a news account that was investigated a year ago and deemed unfounded. Apple sent high level reps to find out if it was true. They came back and said that the workers wages and conditions were better than most in China. Sure we're talking China who controls everything and even "Photoshops Antelope" and lies about everything, but what do you want Apple to do? Apple's overseas policies are better than any other US corporation.
Apple is a great corporation in that it promotes ingenuity and radical technology that makes a whole bunch of people's lives better. I am proud to own a MBP and Ipod and I have had minimal problems with each. But I also try my best not to buy products made by slave labor. No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift. I think that we should press the corporations we love and envision as trendsetters to do more to ensure a fair trade, if you will, of goods and services throughout the world. It is not being idealistic. It is instead being pragmatic. We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.
Thats all.
I don't have to do any research; you made the allegation, so it is up to you to document it.
That article you cited is almost two years old, and shows just the opposite of what you claim.
You far left radicals are almost as bad as the far right; you are so tied up in your ideology that you lose sight of reality. Fortunately, you aren't trying to cause harm like the far right does, but you certainly get in the way of progress towards true equality.
We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.
You shouldn't make generalizations like that. It show your ignorance. I live on a fixed budget and their are plenty of people in China who make more than I do in a year, and my pension doesn't go nearly as far. You can't buy a car making $1.60/hr. But China is selling quite a few cars lately. You really need to get better read.
The problem is that many American companies are motivated strictly by greed. Prior to the mid nineties, large companies were having the greatest economic run in their entire histories. They used their new found wealth to buy off politicians to pass so called free trade zone agreements whereby companies could built things overseas in Countries with very little respect for the principles many of us here in the US hold dear. These products are then shipped back to the United States without having to pay taxes. The tradition of taxing foreign made products date back to the Founding Fathers of our Country. The practice kept the American economy strong. Worse, the politicians give American companies tax breaks for relocating overseas! The irony is that with many jobs going overseas, our economy is in the tank. The only new job growth is in the service industry.
I use to work for a mid sized clothing manufacturing company in the US. The owner wanted to stay in the US, but couldn't because he couldn't effort to compete with foreign labor and tax breaks given to companies moving overseas. Keep in mind, this was a guy who was already using mostly illegal workers in the US to try and stay competitive. I use to come in at 8 in the morning. His workers would be there at 6. They would leave at 8. They had a half hour break.
I think Americans should stick together and keep our money here in the United states. You after all are supporting Americans when you do so. When you buy products made in Countries like China you support the Communist Party and essentially pay the Chinese to undermine our quality of life here. Trust me, I am a Bankruptcy attorney and I see the effects of Free Trade agreements everyday. Most companies in China are owned by members of the Communist party. The workers can't vote or organize. China even utilizes political prisoners to manufacture products.
With all that said, it is hard to fault Apple for building computers overseas in dismal Countries like China. It would have a hard time competing otherwise. In addition, you can't really blame somebody for buying products made in China to some extent because the said reality is today you couldn't live without utilizing products made I such countries. Moreover, the irony is because most decent paying jobs are moving overseas people can't effort to buy anything other then the cheap Chinese products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by webfrasse
Free pass to what?
I don't know if you noticed but when the corporate world is doing bad the whole economy is doing bad. Who benefits from that? Maybe we should take your approach in the educational world. Everyone moves at the pace of the slowest student. No one moves ahead of anyone else. All equally bad. Maybe that's a better world...
Nothing is ever going to be fair. I'm not saying I support corporation taking advantage of poor countries and bad labor conditions but present an alternative instead. What if no production at all was done in China to produce products you could afford (I guess you're using some of these products since you're on this forum...). Would the conditions be better in China with no money at all flowing into the country... I think you're comment is a bit naive and idealistic.
Communism is also a nice thought...as long as it stays that way...a thought.
The problem is that many American companies are motivated strictly by greed. Prior to the mid nineties, large companies were having the greatest economic run in their entire histories. They used their new found wealth to buy off politicians to pass so called free trade zone agreements whereby companies could built things overseas in Countries with very little respect for the principles many of us here in the US hold dear. These products are then shipped back to the United States without having to pay taxes. The tradition of taxing foreign made products date back to the Founding Fathers of our Country. The practice kept the American economy strong. Worse, the politicians give American companies tax breaks for relocating overseas! The irony is that with many jobs going overseas, our economy is in the tank. The only new job growth is in the service industry.
I use to work for a mid sized clothing manufacturing company in the US. The owner wanted to stay in the US, but couldn't because he couldn't effort to compete with foreign labor and tax breaks given to companies moving overseas. Keep in mind, this was a guy who was already using mostly illegal workers in the US to try and stay competitive. I use to come in at 8 in the morning. His workers would be there at 6. They would leave at 8. They had a half hour break.
I think Americans should stick together and keep our money here in the United states. You after all are supporting Americans when you do so. When you buy products made in Countries like China you support the Communist Party and essentially pay the Chinese to undermine our quality of life here. Trust me, I am a Bankruptcy attorney and I see the effects of Free Trade agreements everyday. Most companies in China are owned by members of the Communist party. The workers can't vote or organize. China even utilizes political prisoners to manufacture products.
With all that said, it is hard to fault Apple for building computers overseas in dismal Countries like China. It would have a hard time competing otherwise. In addition, you can't really blame somebody for buying products made in China to some extent because the said reality is today you couldn't live without utilizing products made I such countries. Moreover, the irony is because most decent paying jobs are moving overseas people can't effort to buy anything other then the cheap Chinese products.
I almost don't know where to start;-)
Don't think this is an American problem. I'm Swedish but live and work in Silicon Valley since almost 6 years back. This is the same issue that all leading economies have. The situation you describe is exactly what is happening in Sweden, France, UK...you name it. Building barriers didn't/doesn't work in politics (the wall...) and it won't work in economics. This is the effect of FREE economy. Deal with it and let the wealth go around and/or compete on an open market by finding new niches and create new markets, better products etc. We have a at least a generation headstart on all new economies. Stop whining.
Jobs used to move to to India (as an example) mainly because of the cost. Now they are also smarter and people are actually moving from US to India. The wage gap is shrinking fast and so is the world with all the new fast communication channels. Some business will always be local but you can't stop change with laws and fences.
Maybe US is the new UK that used to rule the world 150-200 years ago. They got wealthy, stopped investing and develop new products and lost the empire. Their whole industrial machinery is/was completely run down because they just took the profit and got "fat and lazy".
I find it very ironic that the most "free" country in the world want to build walls when they get the full effect of capitalism.
Don't think this is an American problem. I'm Swedish but live and work in Silicon Valley since almost 6 years back. This is the same issue that all leading economies have. The situation you describe is exactly what is happening in Sweden, France, UK...you name it. Building barriers didn't/doesn't work in politics (the wall...) and it won't work in economics. This is the effect of FREE economy. Deal with it and let the wealth go around and/or compete on an open market by finding new niches and create new markets, better products etc. We have a at least a generation headstart on all new economies. Stop whining.
Jobs used to move to to India (as an example) mainly because of the cost. Now they are also smarter and people are actually moving from US to India. The wage gap is shrinking fast and so is the world with all the new fast communication channels. Some business will always be local but you can't stop change with laws and fences.
Maybe US is the new UK that used to rule the world 150-200 years ago. They got wealthy, stopped investing and develop new products and lost the empire. Their whole industrial machinery is/was completely run down because they just took the profit and got "fat and lazy".
I find it very ironic that the most "free" country in the world want to build walls when they get the full effect of capitalism.
/Mikael
Protectionism always creeps into the so-called 'free-market' because the powerful use their money and influence to their advantage, which includes political advantage. For proof of that, just look at how the military-industrial complex and the oil companies call the shots at the White House.
The fact is, we do not have a truly free market in all aspects. There will always be some kind of imbalance. And usually the imbalance comes from the intrusion of government at some level. HAVING SAID THAT, I'll take American capitalism over anything else out there right now.
Protectionism always creeps into the so-called 'free-market'...
Quote:
I find it very ironic that the most "free" country in the world want to build walls when they get the full effect of capitalism.
The problem is we don't have "free trade" in principle with China. China, and most of the other trading partners, use their ability to control their labor cost, undercutting America's ability to compete. Furthermore, most so-called American Corporations are really multinational and influence our government effectively to keep the imbalance so they can increase their bottom line.
Big business only wants America to live up to true "free trade," so they can suck us dry.
That said, the topic discussion was that Apple as a corporation was getting a bad rap from the poster "Freethinker" saying Apple exploited foreign labor. I feel that Apple is one of the few American corporations that is still proud to be American, and to that I say Bravo! Apple.
Comments
Communism is also a nice thought...as long as it stays that way...a thought.
All this cutesy phrase does is show how little you know about China, and how much less you know about "communism."
Stick to debating whether Apple is merely awesome, or totally awesome!
Is this service service somehow tied to the iPhone? Seems to any PDA/laptop/cell phone that meets the min requirements should be able to connect and access these services. I don't see why you would need an iPhone/iPod specifically.
In addition to people preceptions about the brand and the iPod's existing user base, I think the advantage is not in the phone but the infrastructure to handle losts of small transactions apple already has in place with iTunes.
All this cutesy phrase does is show how little you know about China, and how much less you know about "communism."
Stick to debating whether Apple is merely awesome, or totally awesome!
Give me one example of a well working implementation of communism...anywhere on this planet. One that isn't corrupt. Show me one and I'll fold..
/Mikael
Give me one example of a well working implementation of communism...anywhere on this planet. One that isn't corrupt. Show me one and I'll fold..
/Mikael
One might ask the same of Capitalism.
If you want to really get chills, Check out Naomi Klein's 'Shock Doctrine'.
Neither of the fringes have a lot to brag about.
Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology. How do you allow for or purport that Apple itself is people centric? Maybe people centric for White, higher income (and children thereof) Western males? It makes me uneasy when I see a corporate hegemony anywhere and especially in Academia. That is not to say that Microsoft is any better. It is to say though that corporations are profit driven entities and none should be given a free pass nor be immune from criticism.
As markoh points out above, this use of technology does not require hardware and software
from any particular vendor. Describing Apple's trial program as hegemony is way
over-dramatic. If you want a more appropriate target for your malaise, consider the
corporate domination of funding research projects in "academia", and all its
implications for freethinking.
Just last year, Apple sent their representatives to China to investigate abuses at factories that make Apple products after a complaint was made. Check out Apple's corporate site to see their polices. Apple demands decent wages and good working condition for Chinese workers. If manufacturers don't agree and bide by the polices, they don't get the contract.
So, FREETHINKER's comment above isn't well thought out or knowledgeable.
One might ask the same of Capitalism.
If you want to really get chills, Check out Naomi Klein's 'Shock Doctrine'.
Neither of the fringes have a lot to brag about.
I'm not promoting any system, they all have flaws. To think anything else would be naive. Some systems are more open on not being fair than others. The sad thing with communism is that it is a nice thought (serious) but that humans are not suited to implement it. If capitalism favors someone successful it's just proved that the idea is working. There are other flaws in capitalism and democracies and corruption exists in all systems where humans are present.
/Mikael
I don't think he's implying anything nefarious by Apple at all. It's okay, I think he agrees with you and is trying to avoid accusations from people sensitive to Apple acting like a greedy corporate monster. He's pointing out that Apple hasn't sought out to be a big brother presence on the universities, the universities approached Apple.
cj, I agree. But your perception of Apple's presence in education is incorrect. Apple, right from the introduction of the Mac and now has made continuing efforts in this arena besides monetary, (http://images.apple.com/education/fi...nection_DS.pdf) with its Learning Interchange (http://edcommunity.apple.com/ali/ amongst many other initiatives.
Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology.
What is your evidence that Apple uses slave labor like conditions? The fact that Apple is a major corporation is irrelevant.
What is your evidence that Apple uses slave labor like conditions? The fact that Apple is a major corporation is irrelevant.
I am sure that you can do the research yourself, if you really were interested. Here for example is "evidence":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5079590.stm
Apple is a great corporation in that it promotes ingenuity and radical technology that makes a whole bunch of people's lives better. I am proud to own a MBP and Ipod and I have had minimal problems with each. But I also try my best not to buy products made by slave labor. No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift. I think that we should press the corporations we love and envision as trendsetters to do more to ensure a fair trade, if you will, of goods and services throughout the world. It is not being idealistic. It is instead being pragmatic. We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.
Thats all.
I am sure that you can do the research yourself, if you really were interested. Here for example is "evidence":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5079590.stm
No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift.
Thats all.
I have a couple of problems with your slander. One is that it is not accurate. The second is that I don't agree with the statement that the cost of living does not matter.
For better accuracy, try using a not-outdated source that shows conditions considered to be unacceptable by Apple. The one you cite is before an investigation where Apple stated they are unacceptable conditions. The results of the investigation show there were conditions being used that did not meet Apple standards and a plan of action has been implemented. Here is the AI article:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ory_probe.html
So, their policy is an average 10 hour work day, which is long, but not 15 hrs by a long shot.
The article I linked to also shows that the pay scale was difficult to understand because it integrated costs paid for housing, food and other such things. I bet the $1.60/day is the ugliest looking figure possible - not accounting for other benefits. If you take out what I pay for living expenses these people don't have to pay for from my paycheck (housing, water, food, transportation to and from work, etc) my salary sounds much worse than it really is.
Lastly, I don't pretend that this is the case, but to make a point, if I lived in a country where I could buy all the clothes I need, receive health care, have enough money for some recreation and meet my daily living requirements for $40/month I would gladly take it over living in Califormia, where a $75,000/yr salary can feel like lower class.
I am sure that you can do the research yourself, if you really were interested. Here for example is "evidence":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5079590.stm
Apple is a great corporation in that it promotes ingenuity and radical technology that makes a whole bunch of people's lives better. I am proud to own a MBP and Ipod and I have had minimal problems with each. But I also try my best not to buy products made by slave labor. No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift. I think that we should press the corporations we love and envision as trendsetters to do more to ensure a fair trade, if you will, of goods and services throughout the world. It is not being idealistic. It is instead being pragmatic. We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.
Thats all.
If you really believe that way, then why do you slight Apple for a news account that was investigated a year ago and deemed unfounded. Apple sent high level reps to find out if it was true. They came back and said that the workers wages and conditions were better than most in China. Sure we're talking China who controls everything and even "Photoshops Antelope" and lies about everything, but what do you want Apple to do? Apple's overseas policies are better than any other US corporation.
I am sure that you can do the research yourself, if you really were interested. Here for example is "evidence":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5079590.stm
Apple is a great corporation in that it promotes ingenuity and radical technology that makes a whole bunch of people's lives better. I am proud to own a MBP and Ipod and I have had minimal problems with each. But I also try my best not to buy products made by slave labor. No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift. I think that we should press the corporations we love and envision as trendsetters to do more to ensure a fair trade, if you will, of goods and services throughout the world. It is not being idealistic. It is instead being pragmatic. We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.
Thats all.
I don't have to do any research; you made the allegation, so it is up to you to document it.
That article you cited is almost two years old, and shows just the opposite of what you claim.
You far left radicals are almost as bad as the far right; you are so tied up in your ideology that you lose sight of reality. Fortunately, you aren't trying to cause harm like the far right does, but you certainly get in the way of progress towards true equality.
We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.
You shouldn't make generalizations like that. It show your ignorance. I live on a fixed budget and their are plenty of people in China who make more than I do in a year, and my pension doesn't go nearly as far. You can't buy a car making $1.60/hr. But China is selling quite a few cars lately. You really need to get better read.
I use to work for a mid sized clothing manufacturing company in the US. The owner wanted to stay in the US, but couldn't because he couldn't effort to compete with foreign labor and tax breaks given to companies moving overseas. Keep in mind, this was a guy who was already using mostly illegal workers in the US to try and stay competitive. I use to come in at 8 in the morning. His workers would be there at 6. They would leave at 8. They had a half hour break.
I think Americans should stick together and keep our money here in the United states. You after all are supporting Americans when you do so. When you buy products made in Countries like China you support the Communist Party and essentially pay the Chinese to undermine our quality of life here. Trust me, I am a Bankruptcy attorney and I see the effects of Free Trade agreements everyday. Most companies in China are owned by members of the Communist party. The workers can't vote or organize. China even utilizes political prisoners to manufacture products.
With all that said, it is hard to fault Apple for building computers overseas in dismal Countries like China. It would have a hard time competing otherwise. In addition, you can't really blame somebody for buying products made in China to some extent because the said reality is today you couldn't live without utilizing products made I such countries. Moreover, the irony is because most decent paying jobs are moving overseas people can't effort to buy anything other then the cheap Chinese products.
Free pass to what?
I don't know if you noticed but when the corporate world is doing bad the whole economy is doing bad. Who benefits from that? Maybe we should take your approach in the educational world. Everyone moves at the pace of the slowest student. No one moves ahead of anyone else. All equally bad. Maybe that's a better world...
Nothing is ever going to be fair. I'm not saying I support corporation taking advantage of poor countries and bad labor conditions but present an alternative instead. What if no production at all was done in China to produce products you could afford (I guess you're using some of these products since you're on this forum...). Would the conditions be better in China with no money at all flowing into the country... I think you're comment is a bit naive and idealistic.
Communism is also a nice thought...as long as it stays that way...a thought.
/Mikael
The problem is that many American companies are motivated strictly by greed. Prior to the mid nineties, large companies were having the greatest economic run in their entire histories. They used their new found wealth to buy off politicians to pass so called free trade zone agreements whereby companies could built things overseas in Countries with very little respect for the principles many of us here in the US hold dear. These products are then shipped back to the United States without having to pay taxes. The tradition of taxing foreign made products date back to the Founding Fathers of our Country. The practice kept the American economy strong. Worse, the politicians give American companies tax breaks for relocating overseas! The irony is that with many jobs going overseas, our economy is in the tank. The only new job growth is in the service industry.
I use to work for a mid sized clothing manufacturing company in the US. The owner wanted to stay in the US, but couldn't because he couldn't effort to compete with foreign labor and tax breaks given to companies moving overseas. Keep in mind, this was a guy who was already using mostly illegal workers in the US to try and stay competitive. I use to come in at 8 in the morning. His workers would be there at 6. They would leave at 8. They had a half hour break.
I think Americans should stick together and keep our money here in the United states. You after all are supporting Americans when you do so. When you buy products made in Countries like China you support the Communist Party and essentially pay the Chinese to undermine our quality of life here. Trust me, I am a Bankruptcy attorney and I see the effects of Free Trade agreements everyday. Most companies in China are owned by members of the Communist party. The workers can't vote or organize. China even utilizes political prisoners to manufacture products.
With all that said, it is hard to fault Apple for building computers overseas in dismal Countries like China. It would have a hard time competing otherwise. In addition, you can't really blame somebody for buying products made in China to some extent because the said reality is today you couldn't live without utilizing products made I such countries. Moreover, the irony is because most decent paying jobs are moving overseas people can't effort to buy anything other then the cheap Chinese products.
I almost don't know where to start;-)
Don't think this is an American problem. I'm Swedish but live and work in Silicon Valley since almost 6 years back. This is the same issue that all leading economies have. The situation you describe is exactly what is happening in Sweden, France, UK...you name it. Building barriers didn't/doesn't work in politics (the wall...) and it won't work in economics. This is the effect of FREE economy. Deal with it and let the wealth go around and/or compete on an open market by finding new niches and create new markets, better products etc. We have a at least a generation headstart on all new economies. Stop whining.
Jobs used to move to to India (as an example) mainly because of the cost. Now they are also smarter and people are actually moving from US to India. The wage gap is shrinking fast and so is the world with all the new fast communication channels. Some business will always be local but you can't stop change with laws and fences.
Maybe US is the new UK that used to rule the world 150-200 years ago. They got wealthy, stopped investing and develop new products and lost the empire. Their whole industrial machinery is/was completely run down because they just took the profit and got "fat and lazy".
I find it very ironic that the most "free" country in the world want to build walls when they get the full effect of capitalism.
/Mikael
I almost don't know where to start;-)
Don't think this is an American problem. I'm Swedish but live and work in Silicon Valley since almost 6 years back. This is the same issue that all leading economies have. The situation you describe is exactly what is happening in Sweden, France, UK...you name it. Building barriers didn't/doesn't work in politics (the wall...) and it won't work in economics. This is the effect of FREE economy. Deal with it and let the wealth go around and/or compete on an open market by finding new niches and create new markets, better products etc. We have a at least a generation headstart on all new economies. Stop whining.
Jobs used to move to to India (as an example) mainly because of the cost. Now they are also smarter and people are actually moving from US to India. The wage gap is shrinking fast and so is the world with all the new fast communication channels. Some business will always be local but you can't stop change with laws and fences.
Maybe US is the new UK that used to rule the world 150-200 years ago. They got wealthy, stopped investing and develop new products and lost the empire. Their whole industrial machinery is/was completely run down because they just took the profit and got "fat and lazy".
I find it very ironic that the most "free" country in the world want to build walls when they get the full effect of capitalism.
/Mikael
Protectionism always creeps into the so-called 'free-market' because the powerful use their money and influence to their advantage, which includes political advantage. For proof of that, just look at how the military-industrial complex and the oil companies call the shots at the White House.
The fact is, we do not have a truly free market in all aspects. There will always be some kind of imbalance. And usually the imbalance comes from the intrusion of government at some level. HAVING SAID THAT, I'll take American capitalism over anything else out there right now.
Protectionism always creeps into the so-called 'free-market'...
I find it very ironic that the most "free" country in the world want to build walls when they get the full effect of capitalism.
The problem is we don't have "free trade" in principle with China. China, and most of the other trading partners, use their ability to control their labor cost, undercutting America's ability to compete. Furthermore, most so-called American Corporations are really multinational and influence our government effectively to keep the imbalance so they can increase their bottom line.
Big business only wants America to live up to true "free trade," so they can suck us dry.
That said, the topic discussion was that Apple as a corporation was getting a bad rap from the poster "Freethinker" saying Apple exploited foreign labor. I feel that Apple is one of the few American corporations that is still proud to be American, and to that I say Bravo! Apple.