really cool feature in the newest OmniWeb

defiant · February 6, 2003 1:20PM

First, get the newest release of OmniWeb, 4.2 beta 1, <a href="http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp2/pub/software/MacOSX/10.1/OmniWeb-4.2-beta-1-English.dmg"; target="_blank">here</a>. (3.5 MB)

Then, go to any site on the net with a text-input field. like <a href="http://www.google.ch/language_tools?hl=en"; target="_blank">google translation</a>.

You'll soon notice a small '+' in the upper right corner of the input field. it looks like this:

when clicked, that happens:

then, you get a new window where you're easily able to edit text. like I am now:

SPIFFY !! :cool: :cool:

that sort of stuff makes me stay with OmniWeb. screw Safari !!

</a>

ghost_user_name · February 6, 2003 1:42PM

Yeah, I noticed that too. I also noticed they uglified the toolbar buttons by adding a cheap gradient to everything. Ugh. Big mistake Michael. It would be nice to give a more 3D depth to the icons, but that's not the right way.

The progress indicator was finally updated to the new 10.2 spinner. That's nice.

I'll still be sticking with Safari until OW 5 starts rolling out with the new engine. As much as I love OmniWeb, the compliance + speed + better-than-chimera iterface of Safari are compelling enough to keep me in Safari.

<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[ 02-06-2003: Message edited by: Brad ]

eman · February 6, 2003 1:52PM

Is OmniWeb still slow?

ghost_user_name · February 6, 2003 2:03PM

[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:

Is OmniWeb still slow?<hr></blockquote>It still appears to use the old engine with, supposedly, the everything-as-an-NSView speed bottleneck and the very lacking CSS support.

So, yes.

The new engine (or WebCore) is not scheduled for inclusion until 5.0. That doesn't mean they aren't working on 5.0 already. The software development tree Omni uses works in tandem. Some fixes that are being made for 5.0 trickle into 4.x and, of course, vice versa.

michaelm8000 · February 6, 2003 2:25PM

[quote]Originally posted by Brad:

I also noticed they uglified the toolbar buttons by adding a cheap gradient to everything. Ugh. Big mistake Michael. It would be nice to give a more 3D depth to the icons, but that's not the right way.

[ 02-06-2003: Message edited by: Brad ]<hr></blockquote>

humm I like them. Nice an simple yes nice and glossy. I might tweak them more for the final. Also check out small icon mode in the toolbar. The icons have redrawn small versions so they look really great and take up less space.

luca · February 6, 2003 4:06PM

Some random thoughts on the new OmniWeb:

I can't even see the difference between the old buttons and the new ones.

Ooh, this form editor is so cool!

Being able to open windows in the background by command-clicking is almost as good as tabs. Not quite as good, but close.

Built in banner blocking is nice. Same with Check Spelling As You Type. Neither of those features is present in Chimera.

I noticed something in the prefs... in the "Plug-In Preferences" there's something called the "DRM Plugin.bundle" which shows status as "registered." What exactly is that? My first impression was to disable it, but I don't know.

defiant · February 6, 2003 4:15PM

[quote]Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:

Being able to open windows in the background by command-clicking is almost as good as tabs. Not quite as good, but close.

Built in banner blocking is nice. Same with Check Spelling As You Type.<hr></blockquote>

Those are in OW since 4.0

It's sad that one realizes that soooooo late.

paul · February 6, 2003 7:37PM

[quote]Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:

Being able to open windows in the background by command-clicking is almost as good as tabs. Not quite as good, but close.<hr></blockquote>yes, i like it (been around a while tho)

 [quote]Built in banner blocking is nice. Same with Check Spelling As You Type. Neither of those features is present in Chimera.<hr></blockquote> yes and no

spell checking as you type IS in chimera (and safari), but is off by default, so you must right click to turn it on each time you want to use it

luca · February 6, 2003 8:28PM

Yes, I am aware that some of those features have been around for a while. I was just saying what I liked about OmniWeb, whether it's new in this version or not.

Spelling isn't a feature of Chimera. I looked in all the menus and the preferences, it's not there.

ghost_user_name · February 6, 2003 8:40PM

[quote]Originally posted by Paul:

spell checking as you type IS in chimera<hr></blockquote>Oh really? Prove it.

Anyway, about the icons, Michael, I think they are okay, but that one gradient with the hard, sharp edge around all the sides just seems so un-Aqua. It almost looks as if you ran it through an unsharp mask or sharpen edges filter. Or is that the effect you are going for? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

IMO, it'd be nice if the top gradient wasn't so heavy and if there was an additional, softer gradient in the bottom half like what is done in the actual OMNI logo on the omniweb:/StartPage/ page. The gradient in the Show Info icon looks so much better than the one on the back/forward/stop/reload icons.

My 2 cents. *plink* *plink*

paul · February 6, 2003 8:50PM

[quote]Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:



Spelling isn't a feature of Chimera. I looked in all the menus and the preferences, it's not there.<hr></blockquote>

grrr my bad.... i figured that since it was a cocoa app that it would have that option.... my bad (you dont need to explain it either i know... or i can find it... no need to muck up the thread)

paul · February 6, 2003 9:41PM

EWWWWWWW i DO NOT LIKE THE NEW TOOLBAR ICONS AT ALL!!!!

i didnt think it would be that bad Brad...

HOW COULD THEY?!

amorya · February 7, 2003 6:05PM

can s/o post the icons?

Amorya

kcmac · February 7, 2003 10:56PM

I am not a programmer so forgive me if this is ignorant.

If they are getting ready to change "engines", why bother to add new features to the old one? Or are the features like doors and seats and stuff and you just drop in a new engine and zoom, you're up and running.

(See, I warned you!)

For now, I am a Safari sellout.

ghost_user_name · February 7, 2003 11:56PM

[quote]Originally posted by kcmac:

Or are the features like doors and seats and stuff and you just drop in a new engine and zoom, you're up and running..<hr></blockquote>Yeah, pretty much.

OmniWeb is probably THE most modular browser around. Omni has been working with object oriented programming for ages, dating back to the NeXTSTEP days (remember that NeXT is Mac OS X's precursor). I strongly suspect that Omni's code is very modular like this and allows for quick and easy changes of components and frameworks. That's simply the nature of object oriented programming and how good OO designs work.

So, is it as simple as just dropping in a new engine? In short, that's the basic gist of it, provided that the new engine has the same kinds of hooks into the interface and networking code as the old engine. If Omni is going to use WebCore, though, a number of those hooks will probably have to be "rearranged" to fit the way Apple built WebCore, but making these adjustments should be a *lot* easier than either starting from scratch around WebCore or building a brand new rendering/display engine for 5.0 (the original plan).

[ 02-08-2003: Message edited by: Brad ]

ghost_user_name · February 8, 2003 12:16AM

[quote]Originally posted by Amorya:

can s/o post the icons?<hr></blockquote>Before:

After:

Looks like someone just applied a diagonal sharpen edges filter to the old ones around 10%. In fact, that gave me an idea. I did just that (applied a diagonal sharpen) and look at what I got:

[ 02-08-2003: Message edited by: Brad ]

ghost_user_name · February 8, 2003 12:49AM

Everytime Omni releases a new version of their browser with that CSS support that can't even match pre-Netscape 6 browsers... they shoot themselves in the foot, and they're running out of feet.

Come on people, the CSS boat has already circumnavigated the damn Internet. Where the hell has Omni been?

michaelm8000 · February 8, 2003 4:24PM

[quote]Originally posted by Brad:

Before:

After:

Looks like someone just applied a diagonal sharpen edges filter to the old ones around 10%. In fact, that gave me an idea. I did just that (applied a diagonal sharpen) and look at what I got:

[ 02-08-2003: Message edited by: Brad ]<hr></blockquote>

I am probebly going to touch them up a bit for the final. It's not just a sharpen though.

paul · February 8, 2003 4:41PM

brad mind showing a before and after of the inactive buttons also? (grayed-out)

chucker · February 9, 2003 8:39AM

[quote]Originally posted by M3D Jack:

Everytime Omni releases a new version of their browser with that CSS support that can't even match pre-Netscape 6 browsers... they shoot themselves in the foot, and they're running out of feet.

Come on people, the CSS boat has already circumnavigated the damn Internet. Where the hell has Omni been?<hr></blockquote>

Good luck trying to write a complete CSS 1 + 2 (or at least 1 + 2.1) implementation in a few months. You'll fail.

Opera's CSS support is decent because some Opera employees are in the CSS Working Group. The same applies to Gecko's CSS support, and to IE's (so it should / could be a lot better). As to KHTML, I'm surprised they're that far already, but their CSS support is far from decent.

ghost_user_name · February 9, 2003 10:02PM

OmniWeb's CSS support is absolutely ridiculous though. They've been tinkering with that engine of theirs for a really long time. I think the lack of acceptable CSS support is inexcusable. I cringe whenever I open up one of my sites in OmniWeb for QA, because I know the damn thing is just going to choke on the CSS. And we're talking CSS that I can get to render just fine in pretty much every other browser. I'm fairly confident Netscape 4.7x had better CSS support.

I don't expect miracles, I just expect progress. Especially when the browser has a suggested price tag.

really cool feature in the newest OmniWeb

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