Perpetual Motion

Posted:
in AppleOutsider edited January 2014
I thought i'd better start the thread with a silly idea - as im known for it! (NO im not claiming to have invented the impossible!) I've been a bit busy lately after telling the boss to go shove it, and having to find a new employer a bit quick. Ive looked in often, but I think this year I might give it a miss, as theres only so much of Mc HillaryObamaCain I can stand, but its good to see the resident AI axis of evil have totally lost the plot as republican doom awaits. I grin when I think how much they will froth at the mouth when they see this non-fossil fuel device!



I apologize in advance for the size of this image, but I had an idea whilst in the bath, so to speak for 'saving the world™' as it were, Eureka! - and have been working on this over the weekend. I think its pretty self explanitary as marked up, obviously this is just a pictorial schematic and doesn't represent what a working model would look like,(for instance I know the radiator and the cool side of the stirling engine should be seperated) but I present it here for public consumption, and gleely await hardeeharhar's rampant demolishing of the principle. . And no, I cant do the calculations!



The point of this device is how to store solar energy during the day without using a battery so that power can still be generated during night time. I have converted the solar energy into potential energy - raising water as steam (rises naturally so needs no pump) into a reservoir so that the potential energy can be released during the night. Nothing here is particulary complicated at all, which means that practically anyone could build one and it will be dirt cheap relatively speaking. Will be great for third world countries, abundant sun-shine and simplicity of manufacture. Because of the immense weight of water - a square metre of it weighs one ton - you can really step up the gearing on this - so the generator will fly for very little movement of the ballast. A bit like Hassan pedalling his bike with a 72 tooth chainring on to a 9. It isn't supposed to be a quick cycle on this thing - I envisage the total downstroke of the ballast should be about 6 hours! so it only cycles twice a day. I've drawn it with a 1 metre cubed ballast, but there is no reason why the ballast couldn't be a mile long if scaled up! running hundreds of generators and quarter of a mile in the sky - All you need to do is scale up the rest of the components and the steam generator.



I know there is nothing new here, its just the combination of already existing devices arranged in a certain manner. Have fun!



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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 36
    dmzdmz Posts: 5,775member
    I can't make out the details -- could you enlarge that a bit?
  • Reply 2 of 36
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmz View Post


    I can't make out the details -- could you enlarge that a bit?



    thats what happens when you watch too much pr0n!
  • Reply 3 of 36
    dmzdmz Posts: 5,775member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post


    thats what happens when you watch too much pr0n!



    Damn visceral reactions!









  • Reply 4 of 36
    sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Why on earth call the thread "perpetual motion "? You just killed "your invention" right off the starting line.



  • Reply 5 of 36
    samnuvasamnuva Posts: 225member
    it uses sunlight, which would be unuabele after 4.5 billion years. Not a PMM, sorry.
  • Reply 6 of 36
    mydomydo Posts: 1,888member
    Anything that use mechanical motion is an obvious loser in this day and age.
  • Reply 7 of 36
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    It appears to be theoretically feasible... the amount of energy produced will be negligible (as compared to standard solar-oil techniques) particularly since you are wasting a lot on running fans, logic circuits to control valves, imperfect valves, etc.



    It certainly isn't perpetual motion...
  • Reply 8 of 36
    dmzdmz Posts: 5,775member
    Severe canard/tangent on the "steam" option:



    http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...h/4245896.html
  • Reply 9 of 36
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mydo View Post


    Anything that use mechanical motion is an obvious loser in this day and age.



    You mean like cars, planes, generators, and elevators?



    With that said, you need to build it first. Secondly, the opening paragraph is a bit harsh: if anything, the conservatives want alternatives to oil so that we can just let the middle east go back to a state of nomadic survivalism.
  • Reply 10 of 36
    mydomydo Posts: 1,888member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    You mean like cars, planes, generators, and elevators?



    With that said, you need to build it first. Secondly, the opening paragraph is a bit harsh: if anything, the conservatives want alternatives to oil so that we can just let the middle east go back to a state of nomadic survivalism.



    Um yea. Planes and car contribute to greenhouse gases. Elevators are are elevatros why did you even bring them up At least they are electric.



    None of those things generate or store power. Stay on topic.
  • Reply 11 of 36
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    MarkUK, you mean renewable energy, etc. Perpetual motion might be something that can happen if we are extracting energy from another dimension, etc, etc.?



    In the case of "zero-point energy" or "intertia drives" ala Arthur C Clarke's 3001... this is the next level of Physix, etc.



    But I would encourage you to continue working on your renewable energy ideas. Basically, everywhere you look, anyone fifty or a few hundred years from the future would look at the way we use power and be shocked at the level of wastage (inefficiency).



    Have you seen that episode in Futurama where they have to "make" garbage? Society had evolved where *everything* is instantly recycled. It was more troublesome to "make" garbage than to clean it.
  • Reply 12 of 36
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Please continue to develop this idea. Think about developing countries where this might help.



    We really need something whereby air-conditioning waste heat is channeled back into boiling water, cooking, etc. Also that air-conditioning, water-filtering energy should come from solar. Water should come from rainwater as much as possible, and "grey" water needs to be recycled as much as possible, preferably through organic "microbial nano filter bed" thingys.
  • Reply 13 of 36
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    I like your idea of "scaling up" to miles wide and long... However the expertise now and in the future ready to do this easily, we are actually.



    Well, here's the case. By 2050, we will have accessed the NEXT LEVEL of physics. Quantum, subatomic, multidimensional, etc. etc.



    Cheap, virtually unlimited power for everyone. Space travel as long and as far as we want, given time constraints of propulsion devices and their evolution.



    We will also have the power to very easily annihilate this whole world.
  • Reply 14 of 36
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    ....so that we can just let the middle east go back to a state of nomadic survivalism.



    Civilisations rise and fall. The Middle East was pretty far ahead of the pack several hundred years ago.
  • Reply 15 of 36
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post


    It appears to be theoretically feasible... the amount of energy produced will be negligible (as compared to standard solar-oil techniques) particularly since you are wasting a lot on running fans, logic circuits to control valves, imperfect valves, etc.



    It certainly isn't perpetual motion...



    Really, i do know it isn't perpetual motion. I was having a laugh!



    actually im not wasting anything! If you dont know what a stirling engine is, look here. The design calls for the steam to be converted back into water so it can flow back into the battery tank. Normally you would use a heat exchanger with pumps, radiators and fans to cool the steam and release the heat into the atmosphere.



    Why waste that heat?



    In my design the steam flows through the stirling engine, the heat energy is captured to power the piston of the stirling engine - not only does this help cool the steam, it provides power - mechanically from the flywheel is directly connected to a fan which blows over a radiator to fully convert the steam back to water. It is possible that if you make the stirling engine big enough, you can do away with the need for a radiator an fan completely, and use the stirling engine to generate power as electricity for any contol systems I might need.



    Thats the cool thing. Not only have I created steam from solar energy, because of the fluke of nature that steam rises naturally, it not only creates potential energy, but in order for it to become usable potential energy, you have to remove and harness energy from it! This is clearly buy one get one free!



    As it is with dropping the weight. Gravity does the work, nothing else. Gravity is free energy if you can harness it. You're then removing the energy from the potential energy to generate power for free!



    But you're not removing the heat energy from the water - just using its mass - so when the water reaches the reservoir its still very hot - you need to add relatively little energy to it with the solar mirrors to make it zip right back up to the top. This freak of nature anti-gravity behavior is free energy creation as well!



    The valves are purely mechanical and operate when the ballast exerts force on them when moving.



    I dont know about you, but if anyone can find a better way to utilize all the sources of free energy (solar, gravity, antigravity, stirling engine) available to man in one device, i'll eat my blueprints!
  • Reply 16 of 36
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    Holy Crap! I've just had another idea that makes this one look complicated and lame!
  • Reply 17 of 36
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    I like your idea of "scaling up" to miles wide and long... However the expertise now and in the future ready to do this easily, we are actually.



    Well, here's the case. By 2050, we will have accessed the NEXT LEVEL of physics. Quantum, subatomic, multidimensional, etc. etc.



    Cheap, virtually unlimited power for everyone. Space travel as long and as far as we want, given time constraints of propulsion devices and their evolution.



    We will also have the power to very easily annihilate this whole world.



    hopefully we will have the next level of physics, I hope that the ITER experiment is successful, but sadly, while we can (barely) afford it, most people cannot, and they need a clean efficient renewable system that plays to their advantages, solar and gravity could be their blessing.
  • Reply 18 of 36
    mydomydo Posts: 1,888member
    This is better for the poor. Something that they can afford and use. A better burning stove.



    http://www.news.com/2300-11746_3-6217626-1.html?tag=ss







    Quote:

    Engineer Don O'Neal of Helps International invented this stove for families in Guatemala. A chamber in the stove is lined with ceramic bricks that can raise the temperature of the combustion chamber to 1,400 degrees Fahrenheit. At this temperature, the wood burns, and the oil from the wood vaporizes, too. As a result, the amount of firewood needed for a family is cut down 70 percent, says O'Neal.



    That's hugely important in a country trying to deal with a growing population and deforestation. It alleviates poverty somewhat, as well--families have to spend about $28 a month on firewood, he says, and often have to transport it on their backs. A lot of people also get respiratory diseases or die from carbon monoxide poisoning, he added. Kids also frequently get burned on open fires.



    The stove costs $120. "It pays for itself in six months," he said. Approximately 42,000 of the stoves have been installed in the country and nearby regions. The factory is in the coastal town of Rio Bravo because the cement, a part of the stove, cures better in that climate.



  • Reply 19 of 36
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mydo View Post


    This is better for the poor. Something that they can afford and use. A better burning stove.



    http://www.news.com/2300-11746_3-6217626-1.html?tag=ss




    That is a great invention,



    what I dont understand with inventors of things like this though, is why they stop where they do. Look at that chimney, I bet a really usable amount of energy goes up there to waste as heat. I'd stick a stirling engine on it! - but if you wanted something cheap and cheerful, why not have a metal barrel surrounding it with a tap and fill it with a few gallons of water - instant water heater from a waste product.



    On topic, during the interlude I have designed the one mechanism I thought would have to be electric powered (what I called control logic) to be totally mechanical and operate under the weight of the falling ballast (when its at its rest point so really efficient)- its really neat stay tuned!
  • Reply 20 of 36
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    Why not just run an enclosed water wheel?





    Many less gears, no valves and no need for a switching mechanism...
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