So instead of actually refuting my point with actual facts, you resort to personal insults. How very mature and intelligent of you.
Please tell me why you need to have instantaneous email notification rather than waiting for an email client to poll the server every minute (or even five minutes). Please tell me why this is so important to you.
Prove to me that I am an idiot; otherwise grow up and keep the insults to yourself.
Agreed. This isn't Digg. Go play with the animals if you feel the need to call someone an idiot.
We're not just talking about push mail. We're talking about iMap vs. RIM, vs Exchange Activesync, etc.
v Nokia's Intellisync v IMAP Lemonade v a million other solutions or combinations of them. Only one is based on open standards and is low cost.
Still doesn't change the fact I'm sad Apple have dropped a bollock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I guess we can add Cisco's IPsec, and two factor auth, certificates and identities into the mix as well.
Sure, but Apple needed to add those regardless of supporting Exchange. Had many of those on Symbian since the 7.0 days so they needed them to just eat the scraps from the same enterprise table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Hosting domains is not the same as supporting hundreds of corporate phones.
No it certainly isn't. It's a lot less work not having to deal with MS licencing issues thanks. Joy of joys in fact.
Push isn't about getting e-mail faster, it's about delivery (really notification) not being a function of the handset. It is more than IMAP IDLE (battery hog, which is why the iPhone doesn't have it I assume).
But, without an external blinking LED saying you have new mail, the value that push offers is fairly limited; you still have to unlock the device to determine if you have new mail. Even the unlock screen showing new mail isn't good enough, and I really don't want the device to "wake" on each new message.
So... couldn't you realize most of the delivery benefits of push email on the iPhone by:
1) An email setting with more frequent polling (Autocheck) options-- say every 5 minutes or 10 min instead of every 15 minutes (currently the smallest interval).
2) Implement a more robust polling scheme-- poll more frequently during, say, normal business hours (configurable), or during times when the phone is being frequently used: upon entering sleep mode, poll every 1 min for 5 min... then every 5 min for 25 min...
3) Then, whenever the phone is awoken: slide to unlock, unanswered phone call, etc. automatically kick off a polling scheme as in 2)
It seems, that if you don't want instant notification/gratification, then this "pseudo-push" scheme would be perfectly acceptable (and would use a lot less bandwidth & battery).
After all, do you really care if the email is delivered JIT, or has been sitting, unread, on your phone... It just needs to be there when you open it
I think Apple will have to come up with an alternative keyboard approach and landscape view for email to ultimately really have a run at RIM. They could enable bluetooth so that you could use some sort of clip on keyboard - but the efficiency of typing a message on an iPhone is still nothing like that on a bby (or a treo for that matter)...
Please tell me why you need to have instantaneous email notification rather than waiting for an email client to poll the server every minute (or even five minutes). Please tell me why this is so important to you.
I would appreciate it if anyone would answer this with a few examples.
I would appreciate it if anyone would answer this with a few examples.
This is often something I wonder myself. The only possible examples I could think of involve public safety. That is fire/rescue, police and allied services. Problem is these sorts of user already have realtime communications.
So I'm with the rest of you, what is the rational of getting your E-Mails instantly and what makes it so important. I understand that at times important and critical things happen in business but usually resolving those issues involves voice calls.
This is often something I wonder myself. The only possible examples I could think of involve public safety. That is fire/rescue, police and allied services. Problem is these sorts of user already have realtime communications.
So I'm with the rest of you, what is the rational of getting your E-Mails instantly and what makes it so important. I understand that at times important and critical things happen in business but usually resolving those issues involves voice calls.
Dave
Actually, I always thought push was a way to cut down on traffic. The server doesn't have to respond to polling. It only sends when there's something to send instead of answering "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?"
I agree most people don't need to know more frequently than every minute. It's helpful if you're in a back and forth exchange though.
The "Enterprise" market will never (willingly) switch away from Blackberry any more than they'll ever give up Microsoft Office. In both cases, nobody else can deliver the unpleasnt user experience they feel the need to inflict on their vict....uh, employees.
1. Push email is really more of a distraction than a necessity. Plenty of times, I am having a conversation with a BB user and the device is constantly alerting them to a new msg. BB users have a compulsive sense of urgency to "see" and respond to any and all msgs. If an "event" truly requires an immediate response, I'd rather someone pick a phone and call me. Maybe I'm old school.
2. IT professionals would rather not be left out of the equation. I think they would rather see more and more layers of servers, networks, and complicated configurations, just to remain employed. Just my 2 cents.
Please tell me why you need to have instantaneous email notification rather than waiting for an email client to poll the server every minute (or even five minutes). Please tell me why this is so important to you.
For the same reasons that SMS and IM are important to people. When push-email and push-IM are done properly you get all the benefits of SMS without its ridiculous costs and limitations. And most importantly, your email and IM conversations aren't limited to your mobile phone.
Polling is the worst thing to do if you want to minimize network usage and maximize battery life.
What's really a shame is that all this hubbub about a feature nobody actually needs.
Remote file deletion is a good enterprise feature. Push email is just a perceived "need" to satisfy people's false sense of worth based on how fast they think they need an email.
Apparently you've never worked in advertising or sales where the first person to reply to an email can win hundreds of thousands of dollars for their company. Speed of communication is key to many businesses. Being able to easily review real-time email communications and quickly take action based on its content is quite important -- at least for my day to day work life. This is why I've used Blackberries for 4 years, and will continue to use mine until the iPhone catches up with everything I need it to do on a daily basis.
Apparently you've never worked in advertising or sales where the first person to reply to an email can win hundreds of thousands of dollars for their company. Speed of communication is key to many businesses. Being able to easily review real-time email communications and quickly take action based on its content is quite important -- at least for my day to day work life. This is why I've used Blackberries for 4 years, and will continue to use mine until the iPhone catches up with everything I need it to do on a daily basis.
I can name one good example as to why i wouldn't want to wait for an e-mail. I work in a world class hosting facility, our SLA is 100% uptime, we can't afford downtime, it's absolutely mission critical. If the net eng's are offsite and something goes south or a customer is unhappy, we need to respond to that immediately, not when our device polls again. Push e-mail has not just perceptually changed the way business is done, it actually has allowed people to respond faster to issues, critical or otherwise while remote. It's allowed sales to follow leads faster and potentially gain more sales.. The list could go on.
When Blackberry itself goes south for several hours however... Well, thats when activsync would still lets us talk to our servers...
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney
I would appreciate it if anyone would answer this with a few examples.
So instead of actually refuting my point with actual facts, you resort to personal insults. How very mature and intelligent of you.
Please tell me why you need to have instantaneous email notification rather than waiting for an email client to poll the server every minute (or even five minutes). Please tell me why this is so important to you.
Prove to me that I am an idiot; otherwise grow up and keep the insults to yourself.
The mere fact that your perceived level of "self-worth" is great enough to be able to dictate what I need in my business is proof (and irony) enough to show you to be a fraud. It's like telling someone what they think (or should think). You are the one that needs to grow up and learn to accept differences rather than telling others what they need or not based on your puny view of the world.
Now i seem to remember that Apple bought a huge network operations centre somewhere on the east coast last year (or maybe the year before). i haven't heard much about it since, but it seems conceivable that Mr. Jobs has some plans yet to be revealed. Does anybody here know what's going on in that facility?
Now i seem to remember that Apple bought a huge network operations centre somewhere on the east coast last year (or maybe the year before). i haven't heard much about it since, but it seems conceivable that Mr. Jobs has some plans yet to be revealed. Does anybody here know what's going on in that facility?
They did buy that, and it cost as much as possibly $200 million.
For the same reasons that SMS and IM are important to people. When push-email and push-IM are done properly you get all the benefits of SMS without its ridiculous costs and limitations. And most importantly, your email and IM conversations aren't limited to your mobile phone.
But that's not an example. I understand push-IM because IM is meant for realtime conversation. It should work at real-time. Email is not suited for that, as much as people try.
Apparently you've never worked in advertising or sales where the first person to reply to an email can win hundreds of thousands of dollars for their company. Speed of communication is key to many businesses. Being able to easily review real-time email communications and quickly take action based on its content is quite important -- at least for my day to day work life. This is why I've used Blackberries for 4 years, and will continue to use mine until the iPhone catches up with everything I need it to do on a daily basis.
Hmm... I'll give you a maybe since I don't work in advertising, but I'd argue that very few contracts come down to a few seconds rather than a few minutes or longer. Not only that, do your clients just respond to the first to reply, or do they review all the replies to pick the best company for the job? Maybe they are that fickle, but geez, I would never hire a service based solely on their speed of replying to an email down to the second.
I understand the importance of mobile email, but I'm not convinced that push vs. 30 second polling is really that much of an advantage, except maybe for a few anecdotal cases.
Comments
So instead of actually refuting my point with actual facts, you resort to personal insults. How very mature and intelligent of you.
Please tell me why you need to have instantaneous email notification rather than waiting for an email client to poll the server every minute (or even five minutes). Please tell me why this is so important to you.
Prove to me that I am an idiot; otherwise grow up and keep the insults to yourself.
Agreed. This isn't Digg. Go play with the animals if you feel the need to call someone an idiot.
We're not just talking about push mail. We're talking about iMap vs. RIM, vs Exchange Activesync, etc.
v Nokia's Intellisync v IMAP Lemonade v a million other solutions or combinations of them. Only one is based on open standards and is low cost.
Still doesn't change the fact I'm sad Apple have dropped a bollock.
I guess we can add Cisco's IPsec, and two factor auth, certificates and identities into the mix as well.
Sure, but Apple needed to add those regardless of supporting Exchange. Had many of those on Symbian since the 7.0 days so they needed them to just eat the scraps from the same enterprise table.
Hosting domains is not the same as supporting hundreds of corporate phones.
No it certainly isn't. It's a lot less work not having to deal with MS licencing issues thanks. Joy of joys in fact.
Push isn't about getting e-mail faster, it's about delivery (really notification) not being a function of the handset. It is more than IMAP IDLE (battery hog, which is why the iPhone doesn't have it I assume).
But, without an external blinking LED saying you have new mail, the value that push offers is fairly limited; you still have to unlock the device to determine if you have new mail. Even the unlock screen showing new mail isn't good enough, and I really don't want the device to "wake" on each new message.
So... couldn't you realize most of the delivery benefits of push email on the iPhone by:
1) An email setting with more frequent polling (Autocheck) options-- say every 5 minutes or 10 min instead of every 15 minutes (currently the smallest interval).
2) Implement a more robust polling scheme-- poll more frequently during, say, normal business hours (configurable), or during times when the phone is being frequently used: upon entering sleep mode, poll every 1 min for 5 min... then every 5 min for 25 min...
3) Then, whenever the phone is awoken: slide to unlock, unanswered phone call, etc. automatically kick off a polling scheme as in 2)
It seems, that if you don't want instant notification/gratification, then this "pseudo-push" scheme would be perfectly acceptable (and would use a lot less bandwidth & battery).
After all, do you really care if the email is delivered JIT, or has been sitting, unread, on your phone... It just needs to be there when you open it
Please tell me why you need to have instantaneous email notification rather than waiting for an email client to poll the server every minute (or even five minutes). Please tell me why this is so important to you.
I would appreciate it if anyone would answer this with a few examples.
I would appreciate it if anyone would answer this with a few examples.
Yeah, me too. If you really want/need to get a hold of someone, wouldn't you just call them?
I would appreciate it if anyone would answer this with a few examples.
This is often something I wonder myself. The only possible examples I could think of involve public safety. That is fire/rescue, police and allied services. Problem is these sorts of user already have realtime communications.
So I'm with the rest of you, what is the rational of getting your E-Mails instantly and what makes it so important. I understand that at times important and critical things happen in business but usually resolving those issues involves voice calls.
Dave
This is often something I wonder myself. The only possible examples I could think of involve public safety. That is fire/rescue, police and allied services. Problem is these sorts of user already have realtime communications.
So I'm with the rest of you, what is the rational of getting your E-Mails instantly and what makes it so important. I understand that at times important and critical things happen in business but usually resolving those issues involves voice calls.
Dave
Actually, I always thought push was a way to cut down on traffic. The server doesn't have to respond to polling. It only sends when there's something to send instead of answering "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?"
I agree most people don't need to know more frequently than every minute. It's helpful if you're in a back and forth exchange though.
So I'm with the rest of you, what is the rational of getting your E-Mails instantly and what makes it so important.
Something to do during boring meetings? A vibration to get you out of boring meetings?
Meh...I dunno but I would like an iPhone instead of a Blackberry.
2. IT professionals would rather not be left out of the equation. I think they would rather see more and more layers of servers, networks, and complicated configurations, just to remain employed. Just my 2 cents.
Please tell me why you need to have instantaneous email notification rather than waiting for an email client to poll the server every minute (or even five minutes). Please tell me why this is so important to you.
For the same reasons that SMS and IM are important to people. When push-email and push-IM are done properly you get all the benefits of SMS without its ridiculous costs and limitations. And most importantly, your email and IM conversations aren't limited to your mobile phone.
Polling is the worst thing to do if you want to minimize network usage and maximize battery life.
What's really a shame is that all this hubbub about a feature nobody actually needs.
Remote file deletion is a good enterprise feature. Push email is just a perceived "need" to satisfy people's false sense of worth based on how fast they think they need an email.
Apparently you've never worked in advertising or sales where the first person to reply to an email can win hundreds of thousands of dollars for their company. Speed of communication is key to many businesses. Being able to easily review real-time email communications and quickly take action based on its content is quite important -- at least for my day to day work life. This is why I've used Blackberries for 4 years, and will continue to use mine until the iPhone catches up with everything I need it to do on a daily basis.
Apparently you've never worked in advertising or sales where the first person to reply to an email can win hundreds of thousands of dollars for their company. Speed of communication is key to many businesses. Being able to easily review real-time email communications and quickly take action based on its content is quite important -- at least for my day to day work life. This is why I've used Blackberries for 4 years, and will continue to use mine until the iPhone catches up with everything I need it to do on a daily basis.
Thanks. Finally a real world example.
When Blackberry itself goes south for several hours however... Well, thats when activsync would still lets us talk to our servers...
I would appreciate it if anyone would answer this with a few examples.
So instead of actually refuting my point with actual facts, you resort to personal insults. How very mature and intelligent of you.
Please tell me why you need to have instantaneous email notification rather than waiting for an email client to poll the server every minute (or even five minutes). Please tell me why this is so important to you.
Prove to me that I am an idiot; otherwise grow up and keep the insults to yourself.
The mere fact that your perceived level of "self-worth" is great enough to be able to dictate what I need in my business is proof (and irony) enough to show you to be a fraud. It's like telling someone what they think (or should think). You are the one that needs to grow up and learn to accept differences rather than telling others what they need or not based on your puny view of the world.
{Personal attack deleted - JL}
Now i seem to remember that Apple bought a huge network operations centre somewhere on the east coast last year (or maybe the year before). i haven't heard much about it since, but it seems conceivable that Mr. Jobs has some plans yet to be revealed. Does anybody here know what's going on in that facility?
They did buy that, and it cost as much as possibly $200 million.
But, I haven't heard anything about it since.
For the same reasons that SMS and IM are important to people. When push-email and push-IM are done properly you get all the benefits of SMS without its ridiculous costs and limitations. And most importantly, your email and IM conversations aren't limited to your mobile phone.
But that's not an example. I understand push-IM because IM is meant for realtime conversation. It should work at real-time. Email is not suited for that, as much as people try.
Apparently you've never worked in advertising or sales where the first person to reply to an email can win hundreds of thousands of dollars for their company. Speed of communication is key to many businesses. Being able to easily review real-time email communications and quickly take action based on its content is quite important -- at least for my day to day work life. This is why I've used Blackberries for 4 years, and will continue to use mine until the iPhone catches up with everything I need it to do on a daily basis.
Hmm... I'll give you a maybe since I don't work in advertising, but I'd argue that very few contracts come down to a few seconds rather than a few minutes or longer. Not only that, do your clients just respond to the first to reply, or do they review all the replies to pick the best company for the job? Maybe they are that fickle, but geez, I would never hire a service based solely on their speed of replying to an email down to the second.
I understand the importance of mobile email, but I'm not convinced that push vs. 30 second polling is really that much of an advantage, except maybe for a few anecdotal cases.