While I understand Apple's tardiness and willingness to keep tight security around their upcoming firmware release and certificate keys, I can also understand the whining.
Good Point
All this hype and advertising, keeping the iPhone the talk among the water cooler is apples best weapon.
Enterprise customers won't put up with crap like this this.
This is a very good point: It signals that Apple is really not ready to handle sizable scale and volumes yet (and the success of the iPod as a retail consumer devices is not evidence to the contrary).
Apple's stock price, at say, $180 - $200, is heavily tied up with iPhone's success, for better or worse; that success is premised on a much larger rollout than has been presently achieved; and that, in turn, will require inroads into the corporate market.
The complaint about dimming hopes for getting money from the iFund makes no sense. It gets the cart and horse completely backwards.
I'm sure the iFund is as aware as anyone that the spots are limited and will be expanding. If they see a good idea, they'll fund it. Obviously, Apple will then approve that developers application.
This is in such poor taste on Apple's part. There is simply no need for such curtness and rudeness. Moreover, I cannot understand the need being so taciturn with information -- to lend some additional context would have been no skin off their collective a55e5.
Boo, Mr. Jobs!
(I am not a developer, nor do I do anything remotely related to software development).
Then stop feeding the flames.
Anyone thinks that Joe Blow gets first shot at this SDK is delusional.
While it is a beta, would it really be a problem for Apple to allow them entry vs. not? Too many applicants/testers to manage? Maybe it could be bad for the developers in the test pool if fundemental changes to the frameworks are needed, and significant rewrites are needed to software once the system is finalized?
Have you ever been an ADC Premiere member?
Have you amongst those ADC Premiere members been a representative of a First Tier Development House? [Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft, Sun, IBM, Oracle, Sybase, etc]?
If you can't answer question one and especially if you can't answer question two then you should ask others who have and realize that this is the standard practice.
Pre-release software Betas don't go to the average individual. They never have.
It is just that, as a shareholder, I worry about how Apple is increasingly perceived as just another rude corporation.
Since when has Apple been perceived as communicative and friendly corporation? We love Apple for what the do but rarely for the way they do it. In fact the whining from the gallery seems a constant that has been there for as long as I can remember. The thing is that Apple always do whatever they want to, regardless. There is always a vocal group who disagree and feel hard done by but at the same time it is this often frustrating insistence on doing everything their own way which makes them unique, innovative, and mucho loved. I can't recall a single product 'the gallery' hasn't moaned about, and yet.... Lets face it, we're a bunch of suckers. Happy suckers, but sucker nonetheless. I have learned to shrug it off and move on. There is only one thing I have a hard time getting over and that is that way back when, before I had a clue about anything, I didn't get a job, save all my money and buy Apple stock. I mean, I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN!
Have you amongst those ADC Premiere members been a representative of a First Tier Development House? [Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft, Sun, IBM, Oracle, Sybase, etc]?
If you can't answer question one and especially if you can't answer question two then you should ask others who have and realize that this is the standard practice.
At best, all of this is tangential to my question, not an answer.
This is in such poor taste on Apple's part. There is simply no need for such curtness and rudeness. Moreover, I cannot understand the need being so taciturn with information -- to lend some additional context would have been no skin off their collective a55e5.
Boo, Mr. Jobs!
(I am not a developer, nor do I do anything remotely related to software development).
Applicants outside the United States received a different response but to the same result: "Thank you for expressing interest in the iPhone Developer Program. We have received your enrollment request. *At this time, the iPhone Developer Program is only available in the US and will expand to other countries during the beta period. *We will contact you again regarding your enrollment status at the appropriate time. Thank you for applying."
If there's a silver lining, it's this. There's a lot of mobile phone development in Europe. eg. TomTom, QuickOffice, all the Handy apps
I'm not entirely sure why it's beta. Apple said that it's the same developer kit they use.
Are we to believe that Apple develop their official software using a beta version of the devkit? If they do then surely if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for the rest of us.
I can understand the reasons for a limited rollout but at the same time, it seems like they are still afraid of giving developers too much control.
After all, no one is going to convince me that XCode was a final release product when it came out and I don't recall it having a limited rollout.
Maybe they want to test how their business model will work regarding the application approvals and online store.
Does anyone know if custom apps will run on the iphone already or will developers have to wait until June to see them running live and have to rely on the emulator until then? Surely if developers can test apps on the device right now then can't they deploy those apps to others with the devkit bypassing the itunes store? Maybe that's the reason for limiting the rollout.
But if they can't test on the actual iphone, how can they test software that uses the iphone camera or accelerometer?
Are we to believe that Apple develop their official software using a beta version of the devkit? If they do then surely if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for the rest of us.
I've worked for compiler companies and OS companies and we worked with betas of our own software all the time whilst developing the next version. I remember working with one OS that used to return the day of the week as an integer between 0 and 7.
It's called 'Eating your own dog food'. Particularly with compilers and SDKs, the best people to work out the kinks are the developers themselves as they know better than anyone what is missing and what is needed.
If Apple's developers had to wait until their own development tools were out of beta, they'd not have released anything
I don't think that's really the case, not in the particular case you quoted. anantksundaram isn't the Apple basher that you make him/her out to be. Based on the posting history, not a hater at all, but really looks like a person that can form an independent opinion rather than rushing to a conclusion fated by biases.
I'm not entirely sure why it's beta. Apple said that it's the same developer kit they use. Are we to believe that Apple develop their official software using a beta version of the devkit? If they do then surely if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for the rest of us.
Ummm well lets see...
The iPhone hacker community has been churning out 'REAL' iPhone applications for months and month and months now (6? 8? more?) without any help from Apple... No 'official' sdk and certainly no documentation to reference.
So with that in mind... No I don't think Apple developed their official iPhone software applications using the beta version of the devkit in so much as they took the home rolled tools that the Apple developers were using to develop iPhone applications and (with many changes) turned those tools into the official iPhone SDK as its been presented to us.. I'm also sure that not everything thats in the SDK was formally a 'home rolled tool' by an Apple developer... Other 'stuff' had to be build from the ground up ...SDK code YES but even more so documentation and lots of testing to make sure all the stuff worked in the form of a fully sanctioned sdk.... specifically for the purpose of a public SDK release.
Comments
While I understand Apple's tardiness and willingness to keep tight security around their upcoming firmware release and certificate keys, I can also understand the whining.
Good Point
All this hype and advertising, keeping the iPhone the talk among the water cooler is apples best weapon.
Enterprise customers won't put up with crap like this this.
This is a very good point: It signals that Apple is really not ready to handle sizable scale and volumes yet (and the success of the iPod as a retail consumer devices is not evidence to the contrary).
Apple's stock price, at say, $180 - $200, is heavily tied up with iPhone's success, for better or worse; that success is premised on a much larger rollout than has been presently achieved; and that, in turn, will require inroads into the corporate market.
I'm sure the iFund is as aware as anyone that the spots are limited and will be expanding. If they see a good idea, they'll fund it. Obviously, Apple will then approve that developers application.
This is in such poor taste on Apple's part. There is simply no need for such curtness and rudeness. Moreover, I cannot understand the need being so taciturn with information -- to lend some additional context would have been no skin off their collective a55e5.
Boo, Mr. Jobs!
(I am not a developer, nor do I do anything remotely related to software development).
Then stop feeding the flames.
Anyone thinks that Joe Blow gets first shot at this SDK is delusional.
While it is a beta, would it really be a problem for Apple to allow them entry vs. not? Too many applicants/testers to manage? Maybe it could be bad for the developers in the test pool if fundemental changes to the frameworks are needed, and significant rewrites are needed to software once the system is finalized?
Have you ever been an ADC Premiere member?
Have you amongst those ADC Premiere members been a representative of a First Tier Development House? [Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft, Sun, IBM, Oracle, Sybase, etc]?
If you can't answer question one and especially if you can't answer question two then you should ask others who have and realize that this is the standard practice.
Pre-release software Betas don't go to the average individual. They never have.
It is just that, as a shareholder, I worry about how Apple is increasingly perceived as just another rude corporation.
Since when has Apple been perceived as communicative and friendly corporation? We love Apple for what the do but rarely for the way they do it. In fact the whining from the gallery seems a constant that has been there for as long as I can remember. The thing is that Apple always do whatever they want to, regardless. There is always a vocal group who disagree and feel hard done by but at the same time it is this often frustrating insistence on doing everything their own way which makes them unique, innovative, and mucho loved. I can't recall a single product 'the gallery' hasn't moaned about, and yet.... Lets face it, we're a bunch of suckers. Happy suckers, but sucker nonetheless. I have learned to shrug it off and move on. There is only one thing I have a hard time getting over and that is that way back when, before I had a clue about anything, I didn't get a job, save all my money and buy Apple stock. I mean, I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN!
I'm disgusted. It's a few months and it was stated in the keynote that the rollout would be gradual.
Have you ever been an ADC Premiere member?
Have you amongst those ADC Premiere members been a representative of a First Tier Development House? [Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft, Sun, IBM, Oracle, Sybase, etc]?
If you can't answer question one and especially if you can't answer question two then you should ask others who have and realize that this is the standard practice.
At best, all of this is tangential to my question, not an answer.
This is in such poor taste on Apple's part. There is simply no need for such curtness and rudeness. Moreover, I cannot understand the need being so taciturn with information -- to lend some additional context would have been no skin off their collective a55e5.
Boo, Mr. Jobs!
(I am not a developer, nor do I do anything remotely related to software development).
Seemed perfectly polite and business like to me.
Exaclty. The sam, crap Apple bashing. Nosense.
Keep up your good work Apple. Thanks.
Applicants outside the United States received a different response but to the same result: "Thank you for expressing interest in the iPhone Developer Program. We have received your enrollment request. *At this time, the iPhone Developer Program is only available in the US and will expand to other countries during the beta period. *We will contact you again regarding your enrollment status at the appropriate time. Thank you for applying."
If there's a silver lining, it's this. There's a lot of mobile phone development in Europe. eg. TomTom, QuickOffice, all the Handy apps
Are we to believe that Apple develop their official software using a beta version of the devkit? If they do then surely if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for the rest of us.
I can understand the reasons for a limited rollout but at the same time, it seems like they are still afraid of giving developers too much control.
After all, no one is going to convince me that XCode was a final release product when it came out and I don't recall it having a limited rollout.
Maybe they want to test how their business model will work regarding the application approvals and online store.
Does anyone know if custom apps will run on the iphone already or will developers have to wait until June to see them running live and have to rely on the emulator until then? Surely if developers can test apps on the device right now then can't they deploy those apps to others with the devkit bypassing the itunes store? Maybe that's the reason for limiting the rollout.
But if they can't test on the actual iphone, how can they test software that uses the iphone camera or accelerometer?
Are we to believe that Apple develop their official software using a beta version of the devkit? If they do then surely if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for the rest of us.
I've worked for compiler companies and OS companies and we worked with betas of our own software all the time whilst developing the next version. I remember working with one OS that used to return the day of the week as an integer between 0 and 7.
It's called 'Eating your own dog food'. Particularly with compilers and SDKs, the best people to work out the kinks are the developers themselves as they know better than anyone what is missing and what is needed.
If Apple's developers had to wait until their own development tools were out of beta, they'd not have released anything
Exaclty. The sam, crap Apple bashing. Nosense.
Keep up your good work Apple. Thanks.
I don't think that's really the case, not in the particular case you quoted. anantksundaram isn't the Apple basher that you make him/her out to be. Based on the posting history, not a hater at all, but really looks like a person that can form an independent opinion rather than rushing to a conclusion fated by biases.
1. Apple announced the SDK in October 2007 for a planned February release date.
6. They are frustrated from being to made to wait even longer for something they thought they would be getting in Feb.
And who better than software developers to know that when you place a deadline on a software release you meet it -- ALWAYS -- no matter what!
D
I'm not entirely sure why it's beta. Apple said that it's the same developer kit they use. Are we to believe that Apple develop their official software using a beta version of the devkit? If they do then surely if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for the rest of us.
Ummm well lets see...
The iPhone hacker community has been churning out 'REAL' iPhone applications for months and month and months now (6? 8? more?) without any help from Apple... No 'official' sdk and certainly no documentation to reference.
So with that in mind... No I don't think Apple developed their official iPhone software applications using the beta version of the devkit in so much as they took the home rolled tools that the Apple developers were using to develop iPhone applications and (with many changes) turned those tools into the official iPhone SDK as its been presented to us.. I'm also sure that not everything thats in the SDK was formally a 'home rolled tool' by an Apple developer... Other 'stuff' had to be build from the ground up ...SDK code YES but even more so documentation and lots of testing to make sure all the stuff worked in the form of a fully sanctioned sdk.... specifically for the purpose of a public SDK release.
Dave
I remember working with one OS that used to return the day of the week as an integer between 0 and 7.
I'm not usually a picker of nits but... 0 and 7?!
Dave
I'm not usually a picker of nits but... 0 and 7?!
Dave
I'm not usually a picker of nits but... 0 and 7?!
Dave
Hi didn't say what the OS was ...