Apple leaves would-be iPhone developers hanging for the moment

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  • Reply 61 of 134
    tx65tx65 Posts: 31member
    So people think they download the SDK and have a piece of $100 million floated their way... give me a break. Is there a sense of entitlement that comes with the SDK?



    To me Apple's response is very professional and does not constitute a rejection,,, it says some people didn't make it in the first pass and with 100,000 people downloading the SDK in the first days, it doesn't surprise me that Apple doesn't want or need everyone in a Beta release.
  • Reply 62 of 134
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post


    Worry more about the fact that Jobs is a liar. That will get Apple into more trouble than being perceived rude.



    Don't start with this stupidity again.
  • Reply 63 of 134
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    Because, since the launch of OSX (as long as I have followed Apple) they have embraced developers, helping anyone who would join adc, and giving the rest the keys to the kingdom via free dev tools and sdks, and now they are holding out on their devs...the people that make their platforms appeal to the masses...imagine a Mac with only a few big shops like MS and EA making apps, no "small ISVs"



    that is what this is doing to the iphone, will the rejects be interested when Apple comes a ringing or will they move on to the next project?



    as an iphone owner, this pisses me off: I want all of the little people to have the SDK...I want those cool little apps that make life better, that is a huge reason why I use a mac and not Windows



    Oh please!



    I want. I want. I want.



    If you think that this will turn any real developers off from writing programs, you're wrong.



    Even if some feel dejected, they will change when they get "official" notice. After all they can write totheir heart's content right now. There's nothing that most developers need that wasn't included in the SDK download. You are missing the fact that the SDK IS available to everyone—even you!





    More generally, not directed to you:



    As for the $100 million, who here really thinks that it's going to be given out to those who apply first? This is an investment house. They are going to look at who is applying. They will evaluate the business plan, as well as any ideas, and work that is being done. They will decide that the individual, or company, is a good business investment, and will divvy up the money that way.



    And as was also said, if more money is needed, it will be made available.



    This isn't going to go to every person who has never done anything on record, and who has no idea of what a company is, or that its intent is to make money for those investing in it.



    Count out most hobbyists.
  • Reply 64 of 134
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Missing from the SDK:



    1) Interface Builder



    Simulator does not support:



    1) Camera

    2) Microphone

    3) Accelerometers

    4) OpenGL ES

    5) Ability to simulate, say, receiving a Phone call

    6) Vibration -- one developer has written a haptic keyboard for a Jailbroken iPhone

    7) Locater



    That's a beginning... there are prolly other limitations!



    The simulator is good, as far as it goes... but there is no substitute for seeing how well/fast the UI and your app works, plays with others, looks and feels on a real device.



    The docs discuss the missing pieces and limitations but provide no guidance to workarounds.



    Many of the sample programs that Apple provides will not run on the simulator!.



    I suggest that you download the SDK, sample programs and try the Simulator, yourself!



    Finally, I picked Wikipedia as a source because:



    --it is generally accepted

    --it doesn't have a vested interest in this, or any other, beta process ...as many of us do





    "A positive attitude may not solve all your

    problems, but it will annoy enough people to make

    it worth the effort." - Herm Albright -



    Despite what the Wiki says, this is a beta.



    And no, beta's don't carry all of the features until the very last few. Smetimes not until the last one, before going golden master.



    I've beta tested for Adobe since 1991, and They never have all the feature set in place until the end of the beta program, because they are still working on them.



    Other companies are the same. Only relatively small programs can come complete by an early beta, if the company producing it is large enough.



    A piano lesson is a totally inappropriate comparison.
  • Reply 65 of 134
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Despite what the Wiki says, this is a beta.



    And no, beta's don't carry all of the features until the very last few. Smetimes not until the last one, before going golden master.



    I've beta tested for Adobe since 1991, and They never have all the feature set in place until the end of the beta program, because they are still working on them.



    Other companies are the same. Only relatively small programs can come complete by an early beta, if the company producing it is large enough.



    A piano lesson is a totally inappropriate comparison.





    It is a beta, because Apple says it is a beta, And Apple is an honorable company!



    I, too have participated in betas-- some 40 years ago to present, most recently with Macromedia then Adobe.



    But, they have been closed betas-- invitation only or pre-approval before you get the SDK, then massive support, discussion forums, etc. after you get the beta,



    This, is a semi-public beta-- available to all comers with a simple signup... nobody can't download the SDK.



    Is this a good beta-- a good move on Apple's part?



    As an Apple follower since 1978 (bought almost all their products from Apple ][, Apple HiFi... down to the present!



    As an AAPL shareholder (a significant part of my portfolio).



    As an Apple developer since 2003.





    My answer has to be: This is not good!



    -- it will tarnish Apple in the eyes of potential developers looking at Apple as a development platform for the first time... Is that all there is? I can get the same treatment from _________________ (you fill in the blank)



    --It will tarnish AAPL in the eyes of investors (it already has) who are beginning to tire from the mixed signals, missed deadlines, and half-kept promises made by Apple (think rollercoaster ride-- maybe time to get off).



    --It has tarnished Apple in the eyes of this fanboy... Apple/AAPL can do better... much better! They are not MS, HP, Dell Adobe... for God's sake... this is Apple... we expect more!



    A piano lesson is a good example-- one that anybody can understand and use... unlike the SDK!
  • Reply 66 of 134
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    It is a beta, because Apple says it is a beta, And Apple is an honorable company!



    Well, yes, it is a beta because Apple says it is. What do you expect? If there are no changes between now and late June, when it will be released in final form, then you can say that it wasn't a beta. Want to take a bet on that?



    Quote:

    I, too have participated in betas-- some 40 years ago to present, most recently with Macromedia then Adobe.



    But, they have been closed betas-- invitation only or pre-approval before you get the SDK, then massive support, discussion forums, etc. after you get the beta,



    Yes, most of the beta's I've participated in (beginning in the late '70's) have been closed as well. But not all. I've also done a number of open betas, where participants were asked for, and the download was just a click away.



    Quote:

    This, is a semi-public beta-- available to all comers with a simple signup... nobody can't download the SDK.



    There's no dispute about that.



    Quote:

    Is this a good beta-- a good move on Apple's part?



    As an Apple follower since 1978 (bought almost all their products from Apple ][, Apple HiFi... down to the present!



    As an AAPL shareholder (a significant part of my portfolio).



    As an Apple developer since 2003.





    My answer has to be: This is not good!



    -- it will tarnish Apple in the eyes of potential developers looking at Apple as a development platform for the first time... Is that all there is? I can get the same treatment from _________________ (you fill in the blank)



    --It will tarnish AAPL in the eyes of investors (it already has) who are beginning to tire from the mixed signals, missed deadlines, and half-kept promises made by Apple (think rollercoaster ride-- maybe time to get off).



    --It has tarnished Apple in the eyes of this fanboy... Apple/AAPL can do better... much better! They are not MS, HP, Dell Adobe... for God's sake... this is Apple... we expect more!



    A piano lesson is a good example-- one that anybody can understand and use!



    I don't agree with you here. There is no evidence that this has tarnished Apple in any way with investors, or developers. I'm one (investor, not developer), and have a fair amount of stock. I haven't read anything that would indicate that investment houses are telling their clients to dump Apple stock because Apple hasn't allowed everyone who downloaded the SDK from being signed up at this time. That would be a very foolish move.



    I can understand that everyone wants to be in the first round. But everyone must understand that that can't be so. Apple has a limited amount of resources to allocate. More developers will be allowed in as they can accommodate them.



    Piano lessons have nothing to do with this. You can't learn how to do the physical movements of your body without having a piano present to practice on. You can't practice the very difficult fingering without that piano, and do the couple of hours a day of practice required if you want to even become a mediocre player. That's assuming that you already know how to read music, of course.



    But you can write programs, and test them, without having a physical phone to test them on, until the final revision. Since this was the beginning of March when the SDK was released, and Apple will no doubt release more advanced versions as they become available, and no one has these more advanced versions as far as we know, no one has much of an advantage over another right now. Having the ver 2 software to load on the phone at this point, may be nice, but it isn't required to get things going.



    To assume that piano lessons are relevant, you would have to say that you learn most of your playing, and practice your lessons from reading the book, until the final weeks before your concert, when you're finally allowed to use an actual piano.



    Not going to happen.
  • Reply 67 of 134
    philipmphilipm Posts: 240member
    If there is anything to whinge about it's tardiness of getting the thing out. It is perfectly understandable that Apple would want to limit developers of the first public release, so as to minimize setting details in stone that may turn out with a wide range of developers to be suboptimal.



    What would you prefer:
    1. they let the whole world develop as fast as possible, and get stuck with an API with ugly features that can't go away because too many people have used them, or

    2. that a smaller-scale trial with fewer beta test developers gets the wrinkles out before everyone gets there hands on the SDK?

    If it was my money, I wouldn't be too unhappy holding off for a while on developing and letting the early adopters suffer the pain of having the API change underneath them.
  • Reply 68 of 134
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Right now I am sooooo f*kng pissed my super awesome ultra iPhone killer app has been rejected, and that Steve J didn't personally send me an autographed picture of himself using my awesome app:



  • Reply 69 of 134
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Looks like my application for iFund funding of about 500,000 USD has been rejected. DAMN YOU APPLE, DAMN YOU TO HECK !!!! My global dominational plans for everyone to learn lolspeak has been foiled!!!11!!
  • Reply 70 of 134
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    But you can write programs, and test them, without having a physical phone to test them on, until the final revision



    I think what you, and other non-developers are missing is the fact that many programs will not run on the Simulator.



    For a simplistic (but telling) example:



    Apple furnishes 27 SDK Sample Programs-- of these:



    30% will not run on the Simulator

    22% will not compile and deploy to the Simulator

    3% Require missing SDK Libraries



    This means that a developer who writes an app that uses anything that is not supported on the Simulator has no place to go.



    Changing the piano analog a bit, Apple is telling these Developers:



    "You can play the piano, but you can't use the black keys".



    or



    "You can write music, but you can't use sharps or flats".



    My issue is more with the Simulator than with lack of real-device support.



    The Simulator is good, no very good, for the things that it does. But, there are missing pieces. Apple should implement the missing pieces so that it can deploy and run any program written for the platform. Then, Apple should add Tools to simulate external events-- such things as: Accelerometer movement; Location change; Dropping/Changing Cell or WiFi access points; receiving a Phone Call.



    There are many advantages to using a Simulator over a real device. I, for one, would be perfectly content to use a full-featured Simulator until the real-device support arrives. And I hope that Apple will continue to support and expand the Simulator as new devices are announced.
  • Reply 71 of 134
    parkyparky Posts: 383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I think what you, and other non-developers are missing is the fact that many programs will not run on the Simulator.



    For a simplistic (but telling) example:



    Apple furnishes 27 SDK Sample Programs-- of these:



    30% will not run on the Simulator

    22% will not compile and deploy to the Simulator

    3% Require missing SDK Libraries



    This means that a developer who writes an app that uses anything that is not supported on the Simulator has no place to go.



    Changing the piano analog a bit, Apple is telling these Developers:



    "You can play the piano, but you can't use the black keys".



    or



    "You can write music, but you can't use sharps or flats".



    My issue is more with the Simulator than with lack of real-device support.



    The Simulator is good, no very good, for the things that it does. But, there are missing pieces. Apple should implement the missing pieces so that it can deploy and run any program written for the platform. Then, Apple should add Tools to simulate external events-- such things as: Accelerometer movement; Location change; Dropping/Changing Cell or WiFi access points; receiving a Phone Call.



    There are many advantages to using a Simulator over a real device. I, for one, would be perfectly content to use a full-featured Simulator until the real-device support arrives. And I hope that Apple will continue to support and expand the Simulator as new devices are announced.



    Which part of 'Beta' do you not understand?
  • Reply 72 of 134
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Right now I am sooooo f*kng pissed my super awesome ultra iPhone killer app has been rejected, and that Steve J didn't personally send me an autographed picture of himself using my awesome app:

    <image>



    I just talked to the iFund people. You go rejected because you didn't know how to spell World.
  • Reply 73 of 134
    daseindasein Posts: 139member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Right now I am sooooo f*kng pissed my super awesome ultra iPhone killer app has been rejected, and that Steve J didn't personally send me an autographed picture of himself using my awesome app:







    Maybe you need to rethink your color scheme here?? I'm sure they have their reasons....
  • Reply 74 of 134
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by parky View Post


    Which part of 'Beta' do you not understand?



    In the dictionary, it comes before "Civil"?
  • Reply 75 of 134
    aegisdesignaegisdesign Posts: 2,914member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post


    I can't, show me a company out there offering a better solution for mobile app developers to get in the money making game.



    http://developer.symbian.com/



    70+% of the smartphone market. You'd be stupid not to.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post


    If you do find one then stop whining about Apple's decisions & go make money with them.



    Apple can do whatever they so choose & it isn't their problem you have no idea what it is like to run such a large & successful company. Take the whining somewhere else; maybe to Microsoft, I'm sure they'll be willing to stroke your ego.



    So you're saying I need to know how to run a huge and successful company now before I can develop for the iPhone. The price of entry just keeps going up...
  • Reply 76 of 134
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Apple's stock price, at say, $180 - $200, is heavily tied up with iPhone's success, for better or worse; that success is premised on a much larger rollout than has been presently achieved; and that, in turn, will require inroads into the corporate market.



    Oh god. Will you PLEASE stop linking stock price to Apple's actions? Honestly, if all care about is stock performance, go invest in China or something. There is virtually no correlation between Apple's day-to-day actions and its stock price. The only reason it fell is because the economy in general is tanking due to mortgage foreclosures and inflation from oil prices. The only reason it did well in the first place was that Joe Dipwad heard something about iPods doing well and went on eTrade to get a piece of that; he doesn't know anything or care about developer relationships.
  • Reply 77 of 134
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post


    Worry more about the fact that Jobs is a liar. That will get Apple into more trouble than being perceived rude.



    He is a liar? What was the lie? He came out and said it would be a gradual ramp-up.



    If I were to find any fault in all of this, I would say that Jobs went off his usual game plan which is to keep people in the dark until the last moment, because they always do this. They overreact, misinterpret, throw rumors around, and generally act like babies. So next time Apple starts a beta program for an SDK, they shouldn't even bother making it generally known until it's out of beta.
  • Reply 78 of 134
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ravelgrane View Post


    He is a liar? What was the lie? He came out and said it would be a gradual ramp-up.



    If I were to find any fault in all of this, I would say that Jobs went off his usual game plan which is to keep people in the dark until the last moment, because they always do this. They overreact, misinterpret, throw rumors around, and generally act like babies. So next time Apple starts a beta program for an SDK, they shouldn't even bother making it generally known until it's out of beta.



    Just answering the part about lies .....

    not involved with the rest of the conversation.



    Jobs has been documented several times to lie. I agree this time he did not but there are several lies now in his book. This creates a lot of controversy in this and other sites.



    You new to the Mac?
  • Reply 79 of 134
    dave k.dave k. Posts: 1,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Don't start with this stupidity again.



    Please spare me....



    When the best way for Apple users to know what future products Apple is working on is to listen to what Apple's CEO officially state what they aren't working on, there lies a potential problem with trust...
  • Reply 80 of 134
    dave k.dave k. Posts: 1,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ravelgrane View Post


    He is a liar? What was the lie? He came out and said it would be a gradual ramp-up.



    If I were to find any fault in all of this, I would say that Jobs went off his usual game plan which is to keep people in the dark until the last moment, because they always do this. They overreact, misinterpret, throw rumors around, and generally act like babies. So next time Apple starts a beta program for an SDK, they shouldn't even bother making it generally known until it's out of beta.



    My previous statement was general in reference. It wasn't intended to be linked directly to the iPhone SDK.
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