Sounds nice! The obvious question becomes do you need them all at once?
The better question is to ask where Intel is with their product releases.
If you take a look at what Intel has coming you should see that there are great strides to be made later this year and possibly into next.
If it is a business purchase the time to buy is when the business needs the hardware. Now obviously not all businesses follow that course of action, many have solid upgrade plans to keep their systems current. As to Blu-Ray I don't even see that coming into the question. First; the technology used in the drives is improving a a rapid pace, so what ever ends up in a new Mac Pro wil be quickly outdated. Second; auxiliary drives are easy to implement.
In any event look at what the business needs and over what time period. It may make good business sense, especially right now, to stagger the new machine purchases over a finite length of time. Say maybe two machines every other month or what ever fits into the demands that you have. It may make sense to organize your computer purchase so that ever node gets replaced every two years or so. Just don't do it all at once.
While we can assume that they will LIKELY add BD this year, they will very definitely NOT have FW 3200, as the physical layer for it is still being thrashed out, and it won't be available until 2009 sometime.
Do you have a link to back that up? I understood the ratification of the standard (the final step prior to release) was to happen in the last month. Certainly if the 1394TA was expecting to ratify prior to spring, the idea was for a 2008 launch.
And since FW3200 uses the same ports and connectors, it was supposed to be very easy for OEMs to update their boards to the new standard.
While that could all just be spin, I haven't seen anything so far (aside from your post) that suggests otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
***NEWS FLASH***
Except for camcorders, the technology is dead.
Then why the update? Why are all the companies involved going through the hassle and expense of developing this new standard?
Do you have a link to back that up? I understood the ratification of the standard (the final step prior to release) was to happen in the last month. Certainly if the 1394TA was expecting to ratify prior to spring, the idea was for a 2008 launch.
And since FW3200 uses the same ports and connectors, it was supposed to be very easy for OEMs to update their boards to the new standard.
While that could all just be spin, I haven't seen anything so far (aside from your post) that suggests otherwise.
So far, I can't get to the pages I've bookmarket from the EE Times, I'm getting a 404 error.
What I can tell you is that while cables and jacks are the same, the physical requirements for the chips haven't been decided. That should come shortly, but, then they have to go to the design cycle, which will take some time.
After that, they have to go for testing in OEM designs. Only then will they be considered for actual products. This cycle easily takes a year. more, if there are problems.
Quote:
Then why the update? Why are all the companies involved going through the hassle and expense of developing this new standard?
The association has their hopes that it will be successful. But I don't see it. The main purposes for FW were camcorders, and external storage. There are also some hi tech uses in equipment that aren't seen in the personal computer world, but they are only a fraction of the uses in computing.
While FW will remain for camcorders for the forseeable future, even FW 800 is sufficient for almost all formats up to, and including 1080p, as long as it has some compression, which even most high end cameras do.
for mass storage, it's been pretty obvious for a while now, that SATA, and now eSTASA will take over. eSATA will be getting power over SATA, so that will end the advantage FW has in this area.
When I said that it was dead, I meant for mainstream uses. There might be more expensive equipment that will still use it, even 3200.
But, do you doubt that Apple will eventually offer eSATA to replace it? I don't. Even if it takes another year or so. They will likely still offer 400 and 800, but I can't see 3200 as being a solution to a problem any more. How many peripheral makers will want to bother?
But, do you doubt that Apple will eventually offer eSATA to replace it? I don't. Even if it takes another year or so. They will likely still offer 400 and 800, but I can't see 3200 as being a solution to a problem any more. How many peripheral makers will want to bother?
Do not forget USB 3.0 is on its way. If the Mac Pro is not going to jump on it I am sure the MacBook Air will.
I'm sure Apple will jump on USB 3 when it's available. They can use an updated iPod to entice users to buy a USB 3 compatible computer. That's a no-brainer.
Mel, as I understand it, FW 3200 is being proposed as an alternative to eSATA, on the grounds that it's more versatile. eSATA is useful for hard drives only, whereas FW3200 would provide the same speed or better and allow for multiple uses.
If Apple has to include FW800 anyway (as you say) why wouldn't they use FW3200 and forget the limited eSATA port given their "less is more" philosophy?
I'm sure Apple will jump on USB 3 when it's available. They can use an updated iPod to entice users to buy a USB 3 compatible computer. That's a no-brainer.
Mel, as I understand it, FW 3200 is being proposed as an alternative to eSATA, on the grounds that it's more versatile. eSATA is useful for hard drives only, whereas FW3200 would provide the same speed or better and allow for multiple uses.
If Apple has to include FW800 anyway (as you say) why wouldn't they use FW3200 and forget the limited eSATA port given their "less is more" philosophy?
What would be the point? It will be more expensive than 400 or 800 for a while, and isn't native to any HDD as eSATA is. That's one of the killer problems that FW has always had. Even SSD's are going SATA. So are internal devices such as DVD and BD burners.
Why complicate things with another external buss?
It's always possible that Apple might include a 3200 port on the Mac Pro, because they can afford to put one in their most expensive machine. But that won't move anyone.
Why do you think Apple doesn't even put 800 on all it's machines? Cost.
I, and plenty of others, have had FW problems with our drives, even though we followed Apple's instructions to the letter while updating, and upgrading. It's just too dangerous. I've moved away from FW completely, giving up both my 2 drive, and 4 drive hot-plug towers, going to eSATA instead. I'm not the only one.
eSATA will always offer greater performance for mass storage than FW. With FW, the best you can ever hope for in a real-world situation is about 70% of drive performance, because of the "talking" in the adapters. Not so with eSATA, the drives are native. You also lose performance in FW because the buss itself is talky. The SATA bus, which is specialized, has a higher percentage throughput.
The only advantage to FW is that it pounds the cpu less. But SATA is better than ATA was, and with multiple cores, and the much faster speeds of the Express buss, this is much less of an issue.
FW 800 is good enough for almost anything except those specialized uses I mentioned.
Comments
Yes, but if they decline to lead with Firewire, the technology will be dead.
***NEWS FLASH***
Except for camcorders, the technology is dead.
Sounds nice! The obvious question becomes do you need them all at once?
The better question is to ask where Intel is with their product releases.
If you take a look at what Intel has coming you should see that there are great strides to be made later this year and possibly into next.
If it is a business purchase the time to buy is when the business needs the hardware. Now obviously not all businesses follow that course of action, many have solid upgrade plans to keep their systems current. As to Blu-Ray I don't even see that coming into the question. First; the technology used in the drives is improving a a rapid pace, so what ever ends up in a new Mac Pro wil be quickly outdated. Second; auxiliary drives are easy to implement.
In any event look at what the business needs and over what time period. It may make good business sense, especially right now, to stagger the new machine purchases over a finite length of time. Say maybe two machines every other month or what ever fits into the demands that you have. It may make sense to organize your computer purchase so that ever node gets replaced every two years or so. Just don't do it all at once.
Dave
Good advice.
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac_Pro
While we can assume that they will LIKELY add BD this year, they will very definitely NOT have FW 3200, as the physical layer for it is still being thrashed out, and it won't be available until 2009 sometime.
Do you have a link to back that up? I understood the ratification of the standard (the final step prior to release) was to happen in the last month. Certainly if the 1394TA was expecting to ratify prior to spring, the idea was for a 2008 launch.
And since FW3200 uses the same ports and connectors, it was supposed to be very easy for OEMs to update their boards to the new standard.
While that could all just be spin, I haven't seen anything so far (aside from your post) that suggests otherwise.
***NEWS FLASH***
Except for camcorders, the technology is dead.
Then why the update? Why are all the companies involved going through the hassle and expense of developing this new standard?
Do you have a link to back that up? I understood the ratification of the standard (the final step prior to release) was to happen in the last month. Certainly if the 1394TA was expecting to ratify prior to spring, the idea was for a 2008 launch.
And since FW3200 uses the same ports and connectors, it was supposed to be very easy for OEMs to update their boards to the new standard.
While that could all just be spin, I haven't seen anything so far (aside from your post) that suggests otherwise.
So far, I can't get to the pages I've bookmarket from the EE Times, I'm getting a 404 error.
What I can tell you is that while cables and jacks are the same, the physical requirements for the chips haven't been decided. That should come shortly, but, then they have to go to the design cycle, which will take some time.
After that, they have to go for testing in OEM designs. Only then will they be considered for actual products. This cycle easily takes a year. more, if there are problems.
Then why the update? Why are all the companies involved going through the hassle and expense of developing this new standard?
The association has their hopes that it will be successful. But I don't see it. The main purposes for FW were camcorders, and external storage. There are also some hi tech uses in equipment that aren't seen in the personal computer world, but they are only a fraction of the uses in computing.
While FW will remain for camcorders for the forseeable future, even FW 800 is sufficient for almost all formats up to, and including 1080p, as long as it has some compression, which even most high end cameras do.
for mass storage, it's been pretty obvious for a while now, that SATA, and now eSTASA will take over. eSATA will be getting power over SATA, so that will end the advantage FW has in this area.
When I said that it was dead, I meant for mainstream uses. There might be more expensive equipment that will still use it, even 3200.
But, do you doubt that Apple will eventually offer eSATA to replace it? I don't. Even if it takes another year or so. They will likely still offer 400 and 800, but I can't see 3200 as being a solution to a problem any more. How many peripheral makers will want to bother?
But, do you doubt that Apple will eventually offer eSATA to replace it? I don't. Even if it takes another year or so. They will likely still offer 400 and 800, but I can't see 3200 as being a solution to a problem any more. How many peripheral makers will want to bother?
Do not forget USB 3.0 is on its way. If the Mac Pro is not going to jump on it I am sure the MacBook Air will.
Mel, as I understand it, FW 3200 is being proposed as an alternative to eSATA, on the grounds that it's more versatile. eSATA is useful for hard drives only, whereas FW3200 would provide the same speed or better and allow for multiple uses.
If Apple has to include FW800 anyway (as you say) why wouldn't they use FW3200 and forget the limited eSATA port given their "less is more" philosophy?
Do not forget USB 3.0 is on its way. If the Mac Pro is not going to jump on it I am sure the MacBook Air will.
That's true too. It will add some of the streaming features that FW has had.
But, it won't be a primary mass storage buss as eSATA will be. Just a cheaper alternative, as it is now.
I'm sure Apple will jump on USB 3 when it's available. They can use an updated iPod to entice users to buy a USB 3 compatible computer. That's a no-brainer.
Mel, as I understand it, FW 3200 is being proposed as an alternative to eSATA, on the grounds that it's more versatile. eSATA is useful for hard drives only, whereas FW3200 would provide the same speed or better and allow for multiple uses.
If Apple has to include FW800 anyway (as you say) why wouldn't they use FW3200 and forget the limited eSATA port given their "less is more" philosophy?
What would be the point? It will be more expensive than 400 or 800 for a while, and isn't native to any HDD as eSATA is. That's one of the killer problems that FW has always had. Even SSD's are going SATA. So are internal devices such as DVD and BD burners.
Why complicate things with another external buss?
It's always possible that Apple might include a 3200 port on the Mac Pro, because they can afford to put one in their most expensive machine. But that won't move anyone.
Why do you think Apple doesn't even put 800 on all it's machines? Cost.
I, and plenty of others, have had FW problems with our drives, even though we followed Apple's instructions to the letter while updating, and upgrading. It's just too dangerous. I've moved away from FW completely, giving up both my 2 drive, and 4 drive hot-plug towers, going to eSATA instead. I'm not the only one.
eSATA will always offer greater performance for mass storage than FW. With FW, the best you can ever hope for in a real-world situation is about 70% of drive performance, because of the "talking" in the adapters. Not so with eSATA, the drives are native. You also lose performance in FW because the buss itself is talky. The SATA bus, which is specialized, has a higher percentage throughput.
The only advantage to FW is that it pounds the cpu less. But SATA is better than ATA was, and with multiple cores, and the much faster speeds of the Express buss, this is much less of an issue.
FW 800 is good enough for almost anything except those specialized uses I mentioned.