Seagate SSD lawsuit; Elements 6 ships; Mozilla chastises Apple

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I was curious about that. Does the embedded option to install FireFox also come with the checkbox pre-checked? If not, then Mozilla is not a hypocrite, if it is then they are.



    As far as I can remember the box has always been pre-checked. Since I always had to uncheck it to continue installation.
  • Reply 22 of 67
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    Re Seagate: sounds like this might not end in settlement/agreements the way other patent disputes often do. Seagate doesn't WANT a cut of the profits, they want to kill SSD technology (and I don't blame them: every year they can delay the SSD transition is a delay in the eventual slump for their HD products). So if I were Seagate, I'd demand impossible payments, or else payments that allow SSD to continue to exist but not drop in price.



    Re Apple and Safari on Windows: they shouldn't have had the box checked by default. The suffering caused by this evil plot is unimaginable



    Still, I'm bothered more by Microsoft pushing Windows Genuine Advantage "spyware" on people AUTOMATICALLY (not just a box to uncheck) who had elected to receive ONLY security updates. And then, to this day, there's no option to UNinstall said "spyware," which has already caused me grief. Grief as in: Windows not running!



    And Mozilla stands to lose big bucks in search revenue from Safari.
  • Reply 23 of 67
    jbh0001jbh0001 Posts: 80member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jpellino View Post


    ... and there is so much uncontested prior art for flash via USB that they would be tossed out of court with great fanfare.



    Unless they sue in Texas.
  • Reply 24 of 67
    suhailsuhail Posts: 192member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    Y'know, I'm actually going to agree with Mozilla on this one. Sure Apple isn't forcing you to launch the program and isn't "critically integrating it into OS X" (ahem, Redmond) so it's easy enough to step around, but it's still rude. And let me just say that Safari for Windows is nowhere near ready for prime-time. The fact they are pushing a sub-par browser so heavily is confusing... why be so eager for bad publicity?...

    -Clive



    I too agree, John Lilly makes good sense here.
  • Reply 25 of 67
    I've seen this update come up. All the user has to do is read what the update is and decide if they want it or not. Honestly, if people are really too lazy to read before downloading, they deserve what ever headaches that they get for it.
  • Reply 26 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by popmetal View Post


    Seems like Mozilla is feeling the heat now that windows users finally have a browser choice that is not bloated, memory hogging and slowww



    True. It's called Firefox 3.0 Beta 4. imo, Beta 4 is release ready now, so I can't wait to see how much more they can clean it up before final release.



    I have no comment about Safari for Windows, other than I'm not a fan of Safari for OSX in the first place and the original few Windows betas were unusably unstable on my Windows machine.
  • Reply 27 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howiethemacguy View Post


    I've seen this update come up. All the user has to do is read what the update is and decide if they want it or not. Honestly, if people are really too lazy to read before downloading, they deserve what ever headaches that they get for it.



    It's not an issue of laziness, it's an issue of inconvenience. Every time Quicktime has an update, the Software Update will, by default, add iTunes and Safari and you have to deselect those, despite the fact that you didn't install either so it's not really an update. The only way to stop these is to stop all updates, also not a good move.



    The argument is that if Apple truly believes Safari or iTunes is a good product, let them get downloaded on their merits like Firefox, and not as a trojan horse because some users weren't paying attention and didn't care because it was an Apple thing so thought it was safe.



    People are annoyed, not because Apple's doing anything wrong, but it's just a dick move on their part. And for those who compare this to Real or Microsoft doing the same thing... people bitch about those too. Do we really want Apple to have business practices on the same level as Real and Microsoft?
  • Reply 28 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MiMiC View Post


    Don't feel left out, Safari is buggy on OS X also. Crashes at least once a day on me.



    Crashes about once a quarter for me.
  • Reply 29 of 67
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jpellino View Post


    As for Seagate, they were wrong that commoditized devices (under $300) could never afford to hold hard drives. (IIRC WebTV was initially shown the door by Al Shugart himself when they suggested such a thing) The vision thing may just take a bit longer at Seagate. And nothing's stopping them from getting into the SSD business. If it takes off, they stand to make more by leading the industry than collecting royalties on the interface design.



    They seem to assert that (1) the MBA and it's ilk won't sell but (2) if it does we'll find a way to stop it. In which case Apple et. al. can simply move the interface to an internal USB 2.0 or better, and there is so much uncontested prior art for flash via USB that they would be tossed out of court with great fanfare.



    Watkins is not stupid. He knows what's going on.



    It's going to take years before SSD's become a technology worth buying for the vast majority.



    Until then, only a very few will want to spend money on it.



    Your knowledge of technology is not what you think. You can't simply use interfaces that aren't up to the needs of the purpose just to get around patents. Even USB 3 and FW 3200 aren't nearly as good as proper storage interfaces. Both require adapters that slow down transfer speeds, and lower the reliability of the devices.



    Why do you think they aren't being used for that purpose now? They are only being used for quick and simple external drives, and are quickly being superseded by eSATA.
  • Reply 30 of 67
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    By this comment, I can tell you've never used Safari for Windows. It is currently the buggiest, slowest browser I have on Windows out of Opera, Firefox, and YES... EVEN IE!



    Safari for Windows is not any sort of improvement on browsers, and by all conceivable metrics, is inferior to them.



    The only thing it has going for it is the OS X theme... which if you're running windows, is irrelevant.



    Actually, you're wrong. That was true for the beta, but not for the final release. PC Magazine reviewed it just the other day. Not a Mac mag by any means, but their reviews of Apple hardware and software has been pretty good over the past few years. Perfect? No, but pretty good. Later releases will be even better.



    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2278107,00.asp
  • Reply 31 of 67
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post


    ' "Realistically, I just don’t see the flash notebook sell," he claims.'



    These are the kinds of statements that make CEOs sound like fools a few months later. If he thinks that the cost trajectory for SSDs won't eventually make them a viable alternative to hard drives then he doesn't deserve a penny of his comp.



    People are reading too much into that statement. He obviously means that for the next few years, the sales of SSD's won't be important, and he's correct.



    The cost trajectory of HDD's is also on a quick slide, and always has been.



    You can buy 200 GB 7200 RPM 16 MB cache 2.5" drives from OWC for $135 right now.
  • Reply 32 of 67
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post


    Sigh... is this is the way things are going? Companies start coming up with new ways of doing something you already do, so you sue them instead of, I don't know....



    COMING UP WITH YOUR OWN SOLUTION AND COMPETING WITH THEM!



    Why doesn't Seagate come up with their OWN SSD solution, rather than be sue-happy pricks? Is that what the world is coming to?



    So much for innovation and progress. Let's SUE SUE SUE to make money through staying behind technology-wise.



    I just lost any respect I had for Seagate. And to think I actually admired them as a maker of decent hard disk drives.



    -Z



    If Seagate has important technology patents on drive interfaces that they are using with their own drives, then they certainly have the right to sue other companies who are using those patents in violation. Seagate isn't a patent troll. They have, over the decades, invented many of the technologies in use in the storage industry, and produce some of the best, and highest performance, drives ever made.



    Others license those technologies from Seagate. If Samsung and Intel want to use them, they should license it as well, or develop their own.



    So yes. I agree, Samsung and Intel should come up with their own solution, which they haven't. They're using Seagate's.
  • Reply 33 of 67
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Every time you sign up for a newsletter, software download, etc, the checkbox is always selected. "can we send you our free stuff?" Lilly's daughter should not have administrator privileges on her computer if she is not able to make those types of decisions - like unchecking a box.



    m
  • Reply 34 of 67
    gikkugikku Posts: 10member
    Which part of "New software is available..." do you not understand?



    Unfortunately installing iTunes/Quicktime/Safari on a Windoze box requires administrator rights. boo hiss.

    That rules out all those millions of locked down corporate PCs, including this one.



    yes. I know, security, but really....



    (BTW, FF doesn't require admin access. maybe John Lilly should chew on that) \
  • Reply 35 of 67
    Well, Mozilla should be worried. Once the average user learns that they can get a blazing fast, stable, uncluttered web browser like Safari, Firefox will become a niche product for the uber geeks that have to have a bunch of toolbars all over the place.



    Is anyone aware of a single instance where John Lilly complained about any of the third party apps that try to instal Firefox under your nose?
  • Reply 36 of 67
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by popmetal View Post


    Well, Mozilla should be worried. Once the average user learns that they can get a blazing fast, stable, uncluttered web browser like Safari, Firefox will become a niche product for the uber geeks that have to have a bunch of toolbars all over the place.



    Is anyone aware of a single instance where John Lilly complained about any of the third party apps that try to instal Firefox under your nose?



    Firefox is going nowhere; there is plenty of room for multiple web browsers. I see Firefox's share increasing web developers start to focus on web standards and the average customer realizes that they don't have to use WIndows; though I think the biggest bump will be in a few years when corporations start moving away from their dependancy on ActiveX.



    If you count only MIDs or all internet capable devices then we may very well see a boom in Safari/WebKit. WebKit is currently the only browser that is well suited for mobile computing. That is important as handhelds and cellphones become more powerful.
  • Reply 37 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I was curious about that. Does the embedded option to install FireFox also come with the checkbox pre-checked? If not, then Mozilla is not a hypocrite, if it is then they are.



    If the DIVX developers want to shove Firefox down your throats with pushy marketing, then take it up with them. Last I checked, the Mozilla Foundation doesn't own DIVX.



    Software that was actually published by Mozilla itself, ONLY gives update notifications about new versions of software that you already have installed on your machine.
  • Reply 38 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post


    Crashes about once a quarter for me.



    Mine crashes about once every few days -- usually, it seems to be Flash-induced.......
  • Reply 39 of 67
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post


    Sigh... is this is the way things are going? Companies start coming up with new ways of doing something you already do, so you sue them instead of, I don't know....



    COMING UP WITH YOUR OWN SOLUTION AND COMPETING WITH THEM!



    Why doesn't Seagate come up with their OWN SSD solution, rather than be sue-happy pricks? Is that what the world is coming to?



    So much for innovation and progress. Let's SUE SUE SUE to make money through staying behind technology-wise.



    I just lost any respect I had for Seagate. And to think I actually admired them as a maker of decent hard disk drives.



    If the other companies are violating patents, and negotiations fail, then a lawsuit is in order. You don't just give away your designs for free if you want to make money.
  • Reply 40 of 67
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by George8600 View Post


    b) Firefox forces its install in many ways. When I install DIVX player, "would you also like to install Firefox, it's highly recommended." It also says that with AIM, Yahoo Messenger, Real Player, Google Earth, Torrent Clients, LimeWire and probably many other installers as well. Seriously.



    I think there's a clear difference of degree here. At least those programs are ASKING. The Apple Windows installer just puts Safari into the list. It's also not Mozilla that's doing that, it is a third party, we don't know if Mozilla asks them to default to install it



    From reports that I've seen, you had to manually opt-out every time the Windows version of Software Update is run. It looks like that might have been fixed with the latest version of Software Update.
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