We won't need HSUPA for another year anyway. I mean, we'll only ever upload a picture to facebook, it'll go fast enough for that. It's not like we use our phones to upload 5 gigs.
The question now is, what will be the hardware feature set? GPS is a given.
What the hell makes you think GPS is a given? I haven't heard this mentioned anywhere. The only thing that seems to be a "given" at this point is that it will be 3G.
In many ways I doubt there will be GPS in the new phone because they already have invested time in this quasi GPS system they have going. GPS chips are huge power suckers, so I think GPS is probably one of the more unlikely features.
Likely features are things that would complement the 3G, like a front side camera, which is not all that unusual - most 3G phones have them.
What the hell makes you think GPS is a given? I haven't heard this mentioned anywhere. The only thing that seems to be a "given" at this point is that it will be 3G.
In many ways I doubt there will be GPS in the new phone because they already have invested time in this quasi GPS system they have going.
My thoughts exactly: <rhetorical> what was the point of Apple implementing location mapping based on WIFI hotspots and cell towers if six months later they intended to add GPS to the iPhone? </rhetorical>
I'm not saying it's impossible that they would add GPS. On second thoughts, the interface to this wifi/cell tower system could probably be easily swapped to use a GPS receiver instead and as such their software has had time for a bit of a beta test, and any GPS software going forward would remain backward compatible to this first system.
However, as far as I can see, there has simply been no talk of GPS from respected sources so I don't know how the original poster sees the feature as a 'given'.
I'm not saying it's impossible that they would add GPS. On second thoughts, the interface to this wifi/cell tower system could probably be easily swapped to use a GPS receiver instead and as such their software has had time for a bit of a beta test, and any GPS software going forward would remain backward compatible to this first system.
However, as far as I can see, there has simply been no talk of GPS from respected sources so I don't know how the original poster sees the feature as a 'given'.
How's the positioning thing working on 3G? Is it the same as with gsm or does it give a more precise result? I remember from the birth of 3g that the 3g base towers typically needed to be spread out in a much tighter grid. Maybe it's just a false memory, but if true maybe it would help nailing your position with greater accuracy??
This is pretty freakin obvious and I'm sick of hearing AI report on it like it's big news. When Jobs introduced iPhone 1.0 he even said they were going to make 3G iPhones. Big freakin' deal. Of course the next big release will be 3G.
Much more news and discussion worthy topics would include information about specific third party applications and Apple's own improvements to the iPhone OS, GPS functionality, etc.
APPLEINSIDER: EVERYONE KNOWS THE NEXT IPHONE WILL BE 3G! It's not news!
To everyone going on about the 3G iPhone, you really should pay attention to the quoted comment above.
The SGOLD3 chipset is NOT 3G capable.
The SGOLD3H is 3G capable but that is NOT the chipset referenced in the SDK according this article.
Thus, there is NO OFFICIAL confirmation of a 3G iPhone.
It doesn't matter. Jobs said originally they were going to make a 3G iPhone, his comments since have indicated they're working on a 3G iPhone, and from a common sense standpoint, they HAVE to be working on a 3G iPhone. THERE WILL BE A 3G iPHONE. Whether AppleInsider has discovered some amazing evidence of 3G from the "Cupertino, California based company" is irrelevant.
The next big iPhone release will quite obviously be 3G, whether this "article" indicates 3G or not doesn't change this.
What the hell makes you think GPS is a given? I haven't heard this mentioned anywhere. The only thing that seems to be a "given" at this point is that it will be 3G.
In many ways I doubt there will be GPS in the new phone because they already have invested time in this quasi GPS system they have going. GPS chips are huge power suckers, so I think GPS is probably one of the more unlikely features.
Likely features are things that would complement the 3G, like a front side camera, which is not all that unusual - most 3G phones have them.
I'm not talking about rumours, I just think GPS is a no brainier. With its rising popularity and the iPhones big screen it's a good idea. And if they want to have a premium model, this is the sort of function people want.
The 'quasi GPS' they've invested so much time in is almost trivial. There is free software that does the same thing, it just uses signal strength from multiple towers to determine a very rough position. It nothing like GSP, you can't navigate, get the street you're on or anything like normal GPS.
GPS can be turned off and on as needed, so power is not a problem, at least in terms of having it as a feature.
The front camera thing is vastly overrated. Few people make video calls. Maybe if they are not charged for (doubtful) it might capture people's imagination.
My thoughts exactly: <rhetorical> what was the point of Apple implementing location mapping based on WIFI hotspots and cell towers if six months later they intended to add GPS to the iPhone? </rhetorical>
Because its easy and makes their phone seem a bit better compared to the GPS enabled competition. It'sa stopgap measure, not a solution.
How's the positioning thing working on 3G? Is it the same as with gsm or does it give a more precise result? I remember from the birth of 3g that the 3g base towers typically needed to be spread out in a much tighter grid. Maybe it's just a false memory, but if true maybe it would help nailing your position with greater accuracy??
It'll be the same. They don't need to build more towers because they're using the same frequencies (and not 2100Mhz).
Of all tech companies, Apple would certainly like one phone to rule them all, so if it's the same HW for Japan/Korea and everywhere else Apple will certainly use it. I read it that way too, but I am goin to wait for a more definitive answer before statin it as fact.
Would this also for HSDPA to WCDMA roaming and visa-versa or would this require a firmware flash to access to the other network, assuming it uses the same HW?
Well, first of all, the author of this article screwed up some information. I hate when they do that because now there will be hundreds of confused people who will now have the wrong conception of things in their head...
Anyways, to make it short, W-CDMA is just the modulating technology that UMTS (3G) usually runs on. HSDPA (high-speed downlink packet access) and HSUPA (high-speed uplink packet access) are two (3.5G) technologies that enhance UMTS.
Usually, If you are in an area covered by UMTS, then HSDPA will most likely be there as well. It doesn't matter though, because it all cascades down to the lowest common denominator... So if HSDPA (3.5G) is not available in a certain coverage area, then it will step down to regular UMTS (3G) for data connection.. If UMTS is not available, then it will step down to EDGE (2.75G), then to GPRS(2G)..
ahh hell, I better make a chart. one sec...
(15 minutes later) ok I just finished this.. If anyone finds any errors, let me know please... I make no guarantee this is completely accurate...
Quote:
Originally Posted by yvo84
We won't need HSUPA for another year anyway. I mean, we'll only ever upload a picture to facebook, it'll go fast enough for that. It's not like we use our phones to upload 5 gigs.
? First of all, HSUPA not only increases raw throughput, it also vastly reduces the latency of the connection on the uplink side compared to using just HSDPA and UMTS. Thing helps real-time applications such as VOIP, online gaming, video conferencing, etc. Second, the big jump in upload speed that HSUPA gives will be necessary for good quality video conferencing.
What's with the 3.9G? I think fractional generations are pretty stupid (what's the generation between your mother and your grandmother?), but it's pretty clear that new air interfaces mark generations and LTE uses a different one to UMTS, hence it's 4G. What exactly are you waiting for in 4G?
Also, people should take maximum speeds with a grain of salt. For instance 14.4Mbps is a pipe dream. That's the aggregate bandwidth of a single cell. So to get that on a phone you'd have to be close to the tower, unobstructed and alone in the cell.
What's with the 3.9G? I think fractional generations are pretty stupid (what's the generation between your mother and your grandmother?), but it's pretty clear that new air interfaces mark generations and LTE uses a different one to UMTS, hence it's 4G. What exactly are you waiting for in 4G?
Also, people should take maximum speeds with a grain of salt. For instance 14.4Mbps is a pipe dream. That's the aggregate bandwidth of a single cell. So to get that on a phone you'd have to be close to the tower, unobstructed and alone in the cell.
4G is LTE (Long Term Evolution). 4G requires new hardware and software upgrades on the towers. At least for the US (Verizon and AT&T), 4G will run on the 700 MHz band. This will allow deeper penetration into buildings and areas where the 800 MHz band couldn't reach.
Speeds can go from 326 Mbit/s dl and 86 Mbit/s. It offers increased spectrum flexibility in allowing faster rollouts from WCDMA and can hold more users per cell.
While theoretical speed is always taken with a grain of salt, it is possible to get very close to those speeds. The problem with the US and Europe is that WCDMA is not implemented properly. Have you ever been to Korea or Japan? They currently have 3G and 3.5G. The speeds are phenomenal. It is not a pipe dream if you set the network up correctly.
LTE can be faster than your home cable/DSL line. If you can afford the unlimited data charges. Who knows what Verizon or AT&T will charge for LTE. But at least you can save up for it. LTE in the US won't arrive until 2010 the earliest.
Comments
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None of these are a given-just your speculation (or wishful thinking).
Yes, it's speculation. Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious. You make forums sooo interesting. Please bless us with more of your genius insight.
The question now is, what will be the hardware feature set? GPS is a given.
What the hell makes you think GPS is a given? I haven't heard this mentioned anywhere. The only thing that seems to be a "given" at this point is that it will be 3G.
In many ways I doubt there will be GPS in the new phone because they already have invested time in this quasi GPS system they have going. GPS chips are huge power suckers, so I think GPS is probably one of the more unlikely features.
Likely features are things that would complement the 3G, like a front side camera, which is not all that unusual - most 3G phones have them.
What the hell makes you think GPS is a given? I haven't heard this mentioned anywhere. The only thing that seems to be a "given" at this point is that it will be 3G.
In many ways I doubt there will be GPS in the new phone because they already have invested time in this quasi GPS system they have going.
My thoughts exactly: <rhetorical> what was the point of Apple implementing location mapping based on WIFI hotspots and cell towers if six months later they intended to add GPS to the iPhone? </rhetorical>
However, as far as I can see, there has simply been no talk of GPS from respected sources so I don't know how the original poster sees the feature as a 'given'.
I'm not saying it's impossible that they would add GPS. On second thoughts, the interface to this wifi/cell tower system could probably be easily swapped to use a GPS receiver instead and as such their software has had time for a bit of a beta test, and any GPS software going forward would remain backward compatible to this first system.
However, as far as I can see, there has simply been no talk of GPS from respected sources so I don't know how the original poster sees the feature as a 'given'.
How's the positioning thing working on 3G? Is it the same as with gsm or does it give a more precise result? I remember from the birth of 3g that the 3g base towers typically needed to be spread out in a much tighter grid. Maybe it's just a false memory, but if true maybe it would help nailing your position with greater accuracy??
This is pretty freakin obvious and I'm sick of hearing AI report on it like it's big news. When Jobs introduced iPhone 1.0 he even said they were going to make 3G iPhones. Big freakin' deal. Of course the next big release will be 3G.
Much more news and discussion worthy topics would include information about specific third party applications and Apple's own improvements to the iPhone OS, GPS functionality, etc.
APPLEINSIDER: EVERYONE KNOWS THE NEXT IPHONE WILL BE 3G! It's not news!
Did it say SGOLD3H or just SGOLD3??? SGOLD3 is EDGE:
http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/PMB8877...12b40d37c80d0c
It possibly is in a unannounced refresh that happens in the industry all the time. May be why iphones are hard to get right now.
Damn eh.
So this could be an upgraded GSM phone (perhaps cheaper/lighter/whatever), rather than 3G.
Did it say SGOLD3H or just SGOLD3??? SGOLD3 is EDGE:
http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/PMB8877...12b40d37c80d0c
It possibly is in a unannounced refresh that happens in the industry all the time. May be why iphones are hard to get right now.
To everyone going on about the 3G iPhone, you really should pay attention to the quoted comment above.
The SGOLD3 chipset is NOT 3G capable.
The SGOLD3H is 3G capable but that is NOT the chipset referenced in the SDK according this article.
Thus, there is NO OFFICIAL confirmation of a 3G iPhone.
To everyone going on about the 3G iPhone, you really should pay attention to the quoted comment above.
The SGOLD3 chipset is NOT 3G capable.
The SGOLD3H is 3G capable but that is NOT the chipset referenced in the SDK according this article.
Thus, there is NO OFFICIAL confirmation of a 3G iPhone.
It doesn't matter. Jobs said originally they were going to make a 3G iPhone, his comments since have indicated they're working on a 3G iPhone, and from a common sense standpoint, they HAVE to be working on a 3G iPhone. THERE WILL BE A 3G iPHONE. Whether AppleInsider has discovered some amazing evidence of 3G from the "Cupertino, California based company" is irrelevant.
The next big iPhone release will quite obviously be 3G, whether this "article" indicates 3G or not doesn't change this.
What the hell makes you think GPS is a given? I haven't heard this mentioned anywhere. The only thing that seems to be a "given" at this point is that it will be 3G.
In many ways I doubt there will be GPS in the new phone because they already have invested time in this quasi GPS system they have going. GPS chips are huge power suckers, so I think GPS is probably one of the more unlikely features.
Likely features are things that would complement the 3G, like a front side camera, which is not all that unusual - most 3G phones have them.
I'm not talking about rumours, I just think GPS is a no brainier. With its rising popularity and the iPhones big screen it's a good idea. And if they want to have a premium model, this is the sort of function people want.
The 'quasi GPS' they've invested so much time in is almost trivial. There is free software that does the same thing, it just uses signal strength from multiple towers to determine a very rough position. It nothing like GSP, you can't navigate, get the street you're on or anything like normal GPS.
GPS can be turned off and on as needed, so power is not a problem, at least in terms of having it as a feature.
The front camera thing is vastly overrated. Few people make video calls. Maybe if they are not charged for (doubtful) it might capture people's imagination.
My thoughts exactly: <rhetorical> what was the point of Apple implementing location mapping based on WIFI hotspots and cell towers if six months later they intended to add GPS to the iPhone? </rhetorical>
Because its easy and makes their phone seem a bit better compared to the GPS enabled competition. It'sa stopgap measure, not a solution.
How's the positioning thing working on 3G? Is it the same as with gsm or does it give a more precise result? I remember from the birth of 3g that the 3g base towers typically needed to be spread out in a much tighter grid. Maybe it's just a false memory, but if true maybe it would help nailing your position with greater accuracy??
It'll be the same. They don't need to build more towers because they're using the same frequencies (and not 2100Mhz).
Of all tech companies, Apple would certainly like one phone to rule them all, so if it's the same HW for Japan/Korea and everywhere else Apple will certainly use it. I read it that way too, but I am goin to wait for a more definitive answer before statin it as fact.
Would this also for HSDPA to WCDMA roaming and visa-versa or would this require a firmware flash to access to the other network, assuming it uses the same HW?
Well, first of all, the author of this article screwed up some information. I hate when they do that because now there will be hundreds of confused people who will now have the wrong conception of things in their head...
Anyways, to make it short, W-CDMA is just the modulating technology that UMTS (3G) usually runs on. HSDPA (high-speed downlink packet access) and HSUPA (high-speed uplink packet access) are two (3.5G) technologies that enhance UMTS.
Usually, If you are in an area covered by UMTS, then HSDPA will most likely be there as well. It doesn't matter though, because it all cascades down to the lowest common denominator... So if HSDPA (3.5G) is not available in a certain coverage area, then it will step down to regular UMTS (3G) for data connection.. If UMTS is not available, then it will step down to EDGE (2.75G), then to GPRS(2G)..
ahh hell, I better make a chart. one sec...
(15 minutes later) ok I just finished this.. If anyone finds any errors, let me know please... I make no guarantee this is completely accurate...
We won't need HSUPA for another year anyway. I mean, we'll only ever upload a picture to facebook, it'll go fast enough for that. It's not like we use our phones to upload 5 gigs.
? First of all, HSUPA not only increases raw throughput, it also vastly reduces the latency of the connection on the uplink side compared to using just HSDPA and UMTS. Thing helps real-time applications such as VOIP, online gaming, video conferencing, etc. Second, the big jump in upload speed that HSUPA gives will be necessary for good quality video conferencing.
ahh hell, I better make a chart. one sec...
Very nice chart! Cleared a big deal of the terminology for me and I guess most people here!
Also, people should take maximum speeds with a grain of salt. For instance 14.4Mbps is a pipe dream. That's the aggregate bandwidth of a single cell. So to get that on a phone you'd have to be close to the tower, unobstructed and alone in the cell.
What's with the 3.9G? I think fractional generations are pretty stupid (what's the generation between your mother and your grandmother?), but it's pretty clear that new air interfaces mark generations and LTE uses a different one to UMTS, hence it's 4G. What exactly are you waiting for in 4G?
Also, people should take maximum speeds with a grain of salt. For instance 14.4Mbps is a pipe dream. That's the aggregate bandwidth of a single cell. So to get that on a phone you'd have to be close to the tower, unobstructed and alone in the cell.
4G is LTE (Long Term Evolution). 4G requires new hardware and software upgrades on the towers. At least for the US (Verizon and AT&T), 4G will run on the 700 MHz band. This will allow deeper penetration into buildings and areas where the 800 MHz band couldn't reach.
Speeds can go from 326 Mbit/s dl and 86 Mbit/s. It offers increased spectrum flexibility in allowing faster rollouts from WCDMA and can hold more users per cell.
While theoretical speed is always taken with a grain of salt, it is possible to get very close to those speeds. The problem with the US and Europe is that WCDMA is not implemented properly. Have you ever been to Korea or Japan? They currently have 3G and 3.5G. The speeds are phenomenal. It is not a pipe dream if you set the network up correctly.
LTE can be faster than your home cable/DSL line. If you can afford the unlimited data charges. Who knows what Verizon or AT&T will charge for LTE. But at least you can save up for it. LTE in the US won't arrive until 2010 the earliest.
Very nice chart! Cleared a big deal of the terminology for me and I guess most people here!
Agreed! Thanks.