Bingo. That would be the reason that this product would be successful; Apple does not sell the product that a large number of Mac users want to buy. If someone else comes along as does so, Apple's losses are entirely of their own doing.
I just bought a new iMac, but I'll give it to my son and buy an OpenMac in a heartbeat if it actually comes to fruition, for no other reason than it's the Mac I wanted to buy from Apple in the first place.
assuming they did not break any laws.. Secondly, you have to be careful with software being installed in a machine that is not designed to work. You might find a lot more headache then you think. For example, Vista's compatibility problem with its drivers might occur with this type of installation. There is a reason why people still buy Apple despite higher price than other computer manufacturer.
there is also a reason why Mac OS X "just work". Because it is designed for Apple's machine. In addition, according to the article Appleinsider, Mac sales have gone up despite economic downturn and keep increasing its market share. So this means that Mac computers are not over price. It doesnt make much sense if people think Apple is expensive and sales has increased. So, most people probably think its worth it to buy it.
Anyway, what would you feel if Apple offer a mid range desktop computer that is not upgradeable? Would you still want it?
Yes, I would want it. Even though all my prior PC's were all fully expandable, I never upgraded them. I just build a new PC every 2 or three years because the technology was just so much better that it made no sense to upgrade a PC. It was just a viscous cycle that would not end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelhot
Anyway from my opinion, this method of making people buy their product while in truth you can do exactly the same thing on your own 3 years old PC is bad.
True to a point. However, you can't expect Apple to help you when OSX doesn't work on that three-year-old video card. In my experience and to all the users I help as well as friends, they rarely have any machines older than three years. Where money is an issue, obviously they wait longer.
The reason I switched to Mac is for the peace of mind. I don't have to worry about driver/OS update problems and I don't have to pay money if the computer breaks (yes I bought Apple Care). I got my iMac logic board replaced on warranty few months ago ($400 value for the parts).
So you bought an extended replacement warranty and used it. I suppose such things don't exist on other PCs? As much as I like OS X, it's hardly perfect. Especially Leopard, which many consider to be an awful upgrade that has caused an enormous number of problems. It hasn't been called Apple's version of Vista for nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
Just like those who jailbreak their iPhones. those who buy Hacked Mac computers are missing the most important features of any Apple product. Sure you can save $100 or $200, but is it worth the trouble and headache if you have problem?!
Upgrades?! My iMac is 18 months old and I really don't see a need for any upgrade. Nothing really new except the aluminum case and a small increase in processors speed. I think I can go another year at least without worrying about an upgrade.
That's great for you, but quite a few people aren't satisfied with the relatively low performance of an iMac and can't see paying more than $2k for the base-model Mac Pro. The Hackintosh I helped build is nearly 1/3 the price of a Mac Pro, not $100 or $200 less. It's almost as fast and has a lot more RAM and disk space than the base model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones
Not only that, it will probably be a noisy piece of junk just like all the other PC's since the hardware won't be controlled by the software and the fans will run full speed all the time. Yeah, that is what people want. Since Apple's hardware is already flying off store shelves, people are willing to spend money for quality. They aren't looking for a cheap piece of junk. That is what Windows users want.
Apple already had a mid-tower, the Power Mac G3 and G4. If you really want a tower, buy a Mac Pro. Apple isn't losing any money over not offering a cheap tower. Laptops already outsell desktops, and the iMac is very successful. So I think your market for a cheap mid-tower is pretty small. Small enough where Apple doesn't need one, which is why they phased out the smaller G3/G4 tower box and left the Mac Pro for the Pros.
Those were not midrange mid-towers. Those were Apple's top of the line pro machines at the time. The Mac Pro did not magically replace the G3/G4 because Apple needed more internal space. The PowerMac G5 came before the Mac Pro, and that had only two hard drive bays for the same "full size tower" design. Do get your facts straight.
As for your fan statement, boy are you behind the times. Every modern motherboard I've seen has PWM speed control for all fans, just like Apple, so they hardly "run full speed all the time." Like it or not, today's Intel-based Apple motherboards are nothing more than slightly tweaked versions of mainstream motherboards. There's nothing special about them. More than just Windows users want less expensive machines. If every Mac user were willing to pay more, why isn't the Mac Pro the best selling maching in Apple's lineup?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobertoq
hopefully Apple will make some new (cheaper) cinema displays (20", 24", 30", 36") with high-quality iSight camera and mic, with an optional matte or glossy display.
A "cheaper" display from Apple would still be up to twice the price of its competition. And there's no excuse about it costing more because Apple needs to make it high quality to work with OS X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmon750
Apple machines work well because everything is designed to work well together. OSX in the wild would have the same problems as the windows environment. Unstable software components wreaking havoc and ruining the user-experience.
You're really out of the Hackintosh loop. Everyone there understands that any problems they may encounter are because they're trying to run OS X on unsupported machines. They don't blame Apple, except when it really is Apple's fault. I've used genuine Macs for more years than any of these Johnny-come-latelies (especially the ones who say they're just about to buy their first Mac), but I'm willing to admit when Apple screws up. There are so many ways Leopard doesn't work as well as Tiger did (despite the new features), and you can't blame anyone but Apple for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmon750
Apple having complete control over hardware and software is why they work so well.
Except when they don't work so well. How about that AI article today about yet another problem with their hardware? This is not the first time, either. There have been numerous battery recalls, problems with discoloration on notebooks, other display problems with both laptop and Cinema Displays, etc.
If that were true, eBay wouldn't be nearly as good as it is, now, would it?
First of all, it is nothing like Ebay. Because when you sell something on Ebay, you did not alter the Mac products usage. When you knowingly or not altered its use, you have violated the agreement.
So you bought an extended replacement warranty and used it. I suppose such things don't exist on other PCs? As much as I like OS X, it's hardly perfect. Especially Leopard, which many consider to be an awful upgrade that has caused an enormous number of problems. It hasn't been called Apple's version of Vista for nothing.
I used Sony Vaio before, and the service is no where as good as the macs. Sorry pc people, Mac's warranty is worth every penny. Because they replace everything for free and its fast. Sony's warranty.. not as fast and their service is ok at best. so its not worth to pay $400.
secondly, no operating system is perfect. What makes leopard different then vista is that the drivers works and it boots a lot faster than vista. If you want to be picky, OS X makes computing easier than vista. And also, no one in the mac community cries "save the old OS" like windows "save XP". despite being called apple's version of vista, i can honestly say it is still better than vista, in that most users still find it an upgrade from the old OS. and dont forget the most obvious reason, Mac doesnt have a lot of virus (yet).
The logical error in the thinking behind your post and piot's is that it assumes Apple wouldn't have done as well or better without the iMac.
Actually Ink that's not very logical. Pointing out that Apple's Mac sales (without your desired system) are ACTUALLY growing much much faster than the rest of the PC market (with a hundred different versions of your miditower) has a bit more weight than just saying "I want one, so everyone else wants one too".
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkswamp
The fact that Psystar put themselves on the map overnight by offering a Mac mid-range tower speaks volumes, as far as I'm concerned. Who heard of these guys two days ago?
Oh Ink! Why is it always about you? Psytar is on the map because they are offering a non-Apple Mac. Period. Do you think that they would just be ignored if they were offering a $500 MacBook clone? Sigh.
Where do you get the idea that I, as a consumer, must support Apple? If they don't have a product I want, then maybe a competitor should be allowed to step in to provide it.
The OpenMac looks pretty damn good to me. Then again, I think the iMac and its Las Vegas glossy display sucks and the Mini is a freakin' overpriced box of circa-2006 leftovers. I've been using Macs for 15+ years and Apple, for the first time since I've been using Macs, has nothing that fits my needs and budget. And Apple apparently cannot hear the numerous calls from both consumers and high profile tech commentators for them to release a mid-range tower.
Somewhere along the way, it appears that Apple lost their passion for making decent computers and are too infatuated with selling music and making cell phones. Look at the buyer's guide on MacRumors and explain why Apple is taking almost a year between updates on the iMac and the Mac Mini now? It wasn't like that three years ago. We could count on regular price drops or spec bumps every 4-5 months. But now Apple is showing a surprising lack of interest in their consumer machines.
So you think I should support Apple? How about if Apple gets with the program and gets out of this 1998 all-in-one mentality and start making the products that people really want?
the answer is simple, Apple simply not interested in the market you are describing. If its big big enough and Apple has the resource, why wouldnt they do it? I dont think they are that stupid to ignore a "large market" if they think its a large market.
If you don't like what Apple has to offer, then go somewhere else. No other OSX options? Well, that is just too bad! Apple has every right to safeguard their systems to prevent chop-shops like these guys from diluting and tarnishing OSX. Apple having complete control over hardware and software is why they work so well. What part of that equation do you not understand? You are in such a ridiculously low minority of people who think that the iMac hardware is inferior. You're just more vocal. They may not use the most current components out there but they definitely work more in harmony with the OS than Windows. Stick with Windows or Linux. It's obvious that OSX is not for you. If Apple does not come out with a low-end Mac Pro, then they don't. Move on with your life.
Some people agree with you (I'm one of them) but sadly, there are a majority of people who dont get the message.
Quote:
So you bought an extended replacement warranty and used it. I suppose such things don't exist on other PCs? As much as I like OS X, it's hardly perfect. Especially Leopard, which many consider to be an awful upgrade that has caused an enormous number of problems. It hasn't been called Apple's version of Vista for nothing.
Since when Leopard is known as Apples Vista? Bugs? Every OS in the world has bugs, that doesnt make it sucky. You want to know why Leopard is not Vista, cause it works. It has a lot of new features that works unlike Vista which features are only for looks and Ooooosssss. and your old 3 years old Printer + Scanner + Fax machine works with Leopard unlike Vista, so LEOPARD is NOT Vista, get your facts right. And you dont hear people yelling or posting in YouTube or forums about save Tiger dont upgrade to Leopard cause in truth you are downgrading!!!. I never heard of that before, I know I heard it from users who use Vista
Quote:
That's great for you, but quite a few people aren't satisfied with the relatively low performance of an iMac but can't see paying more than $2k for the base-model Mac Pro. The Hackintosh I helped build is nearly 1/3 the price of a Mac Pro, not $100 or $200 less. It's almost as fast and has a lot more RAM and disk space than the base model.
I want you to think hard why Leopard doesn't need to have suites like Vista (HB, HP, B, U). Let me help you, its cause they are using the money they get from their hardwares to support the development of OS X, do you think if Apple only sell software they can offer Leopard at the price you are paying now?
Quote:
You're really out of the Hackintosh loop. Everyone there understands that any problems they may encounter are because they're trying to run OS X on unsupported machines. They don't blame Apple, except when it really is Apple's fault. I've used genuine Macs for more years than any of these Johnny-come-latelies (especially the ones who say they're just about to buy their first Mac), but I'm willing to admit when Apple screws up. There are so many ways Leopard doesn't work as well as Tiger did (despite the new features), and you can't blame anyone but Apple for that.
You are correct about this, but once a company like this OpenMac start offering it for the public, the public dont understand the true situation and when something goes wrong, they will start blaming Apple where in truth, Apple never supported the Hackintosh project. I myself run Hackintosh but sometime I just wish Im getting an Apple (this May).
Besides, I consider mid tower worthless if its not upgradeable (GPU, Processor and etc) cause people who upgrade their computers are usually gamers. Besides, your Mac now would last another 5 years and by that time, softwares would finally not work on your Mac cause its slow and its time to upgrade, 5 years is good investment and by that time technology would be advanced and naturally you would want to upgrade.
OK people, if you have a problem with the way Apple market their product, why dont you make your own Mac like OS. Seriously, you can do it with linux. And its free. Whats stopping you? dont waste your time arguing on what Apple should do.
Apple do not have an obligation to make a product you want. they have rights to their products. its the same thing as all of us have the right to vote. I will give the three magical words: "We can choose."
First of all, it is nothing like Ebay. Because when you sell something on Ebay, you did not alter the Mac products usage. When you knowingly or not altered its use, you have violated the agreement.
Are you saying that the 1723 unlocked iphones currently for sale on ebay haven't been altered in any way?
Are you saying that the 1723 unlocked iphones currently for sale on ebay haven't been altered in any way?
Did i say mac product or Apple product? hm.. i think there is a difference... Macs are the computers.
Didnt Apple brick those phones with their update? or are you saying apple should sue them one by one? Apple is not that stupid man. Why would they sue their customer. There is no point because its too many and besides, the most they can get out of them is probably $5000.. its the same thing as illegal windows xp copies being sold in other countries. Why dont microsoft sue them?
And yes, those phones are illegally altered, so it violates the agreement. and still, that has nothing to do with ebay. If ebay were selling those products, then that might be a lawsuit worth pursuing for Apple.
and please stop comparing ebay with psystar. Ebay is just a mean. They dont personally sell the items. Psystar is personnaly selling the product
Are you saying that the 1723 unlocked iphones currently for sale on ebay haven't been altered in any way?
Unlocked phones do go against the agreement, unless they are factory unlocked like the ones being sold in France in Germany. One shouldn't expect Apple to bend over backwards to help you with software issues that are caused by a software jailbreak or unlock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan
Didnt Apple brick those phones with their update?
Some iPhones were bricked by stupid users that tried to put Apple's iPhone software on their jailbroken device. They should have reverted to factory settings and then installed it, or waited 5 minutes for the hacker community to create a solution. There is no evidence that Apple added code to brick the devices. The logical answer is that Apple didn't take the jailbroken devices into consideration when creating their update. Though, the last update does have some evidence that Apple may be taking that into consideration now. We'll see with the next update.
Didnt Apple brick those phones with their update? or are you saying apple should sue them one by one? Apple is not that stupid man. Why would they sue their customer. There is no point because its too many and besides, the most they can get out of them is probably $5000.. its the same thing as illegal windows xp copies being sold in other countries. Why dont microsoft sue them?
And yes, those phones are illegally altered. and still, that has nothing to do with ebay.
You're taking my comments out of context. I was originally replyiing to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post
That may be true, however, one company cannot distribute another companies product without its permission. Amongst other legal theories, that is a blatant violation of Trademark law. Consequently, this company could never legally distribute OSX without Apple's permission.
I was using eBay as an example of redistributing another company's product without permission. I could also have used newspaper classified ads as an example. There's nothing against the law in the western world with reselling something you've bought, and if you want to paint a chair or unlock an iPhone or circuit bend a Speak and Spell or install OSX on a Dell computer, the worst the manufacturer can do is void the warranty.
You're taking my comments out of context. I was originally replyiing to:
I was using eBay as an example of redistributing another company's product without permission. I could also have used newspaper classified ads as an example. There's nothing against the law in the western world with reselling something you've bought, and if you want to paint a chair or unlock an iPhone or circuit bend a Speak and Spell or install OSX on a Dell computer, the worst the manufacturer can do is void the warranty.
ohh ok i get it.
I think Tbell is missing the point. The violation is not in the distribution part. its in the installation of the product. UELA: one cannot install Leopard on a non-apple machine.
You're taking my comments out of context. I was originally replyiing to:
I was using eBay as an example of redistributing another company's product without permission. I could also have used newspaper classified ads as an example. There's nothing against the law in the western world with reselling something you've bought, and if you want to paint a chair or unlock an iPhone or circuit bend a Speak and Spell or install OSX on a Dell computer, the worst the manufacturer can do is void the warranty.
but didnt they have a law where you cannot distribute a new product or something?? cause most of the stuff in ebay is technically second hand. Regardless of what the user say about them. because they bought from Apple first. Thats why companies need permission for distributing Apple's new product.
Didn't any of you (except Benton) bother to check just who "Psystar" is?
Being from the area, I instantly recognized that this address is smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood in Kendall, complete with swimming pool in his backyard. There is not a commercial piece of property with a mile.
Indeed, the company was just incorporated in July of 2007, does not even have an FEI number, has never filed a corporate report with the State of Florida-- this really looks like a top notch corporate operation, doesn't it?
You all send in your money and let us know how things work out, okay?
Hey-- but he only charges $45.00 for one hour of on-site computer service: what a deal.....
But remember, if it looks like a duck, has web feet, walks like a duck, and quacks-- it probably is a duck! I believe that this is exactly what it looks like... be sure to look yourself before getting all excited.
The days of a guy in his garage making mainstream computers is long gone people!
Didn't any of you (except Benton) bother to check just who "Psystar" is?
Being from the area, I instantly recognized that this address is smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood in Kendall, complete with swimming pool in his backyard. There is not a commercial piece of property with a mile.
Indeed, the company was just incorporated in July of 2007, does not even have an FEI number, has never filed a corporate report with the State of Florida-- this really looks like a top notch corporate operation, doesn't it?
You all send in your money and let us know how things work out, okay?
Hey-- but he only charges $45.00 for one hour of on-site computer service: what a deal.....
But remember, if it looks like a duck, has web feet, walks like a duck, and quacks-- it probably is a duck! I believe that this is exactly what it looks like... be sure to look yourself before getting all excited.
The days of a guy in his garage making mainstream computers is long gone people!
i did. on the site, it says 2008 copyright. So they are pretty new. And im guessing they do not have the experience to handle lawsuits.. and if what you are saying is true, then this is a very new company with no credibility. So better not trust what they said in regard with the lawsuit.
OK people, if you have a problem with the way Apple market their product, why dont you make your own Mac like OS. Seriously, you can do it with linux. And its free. Whats stopping you? dont waste your time arguing on what Apple should do.
Apple do not have an obligation to make a product you want. they have rights to their products. its the same thing as all of us have the right to vote. I will give the three magical words: "We can choose."
I don't use OS X because I just want to run a Mac version of a PC equivalent piece of software.
I want to develop with ObjC/Cocoa. I want to leverage the functionality that is seemlessly integrated within OS X.
I use Linux daily--Debian Sid. I have used it daily for over 6 years.
It's not OS X and it's Development Environment for ObjC -- GNUstep is 5 or more years away from being equivalent--in short, it will always be behind Apple as it depends on Apple to keep Openstep compliance and Cocoa conformance rudimentary similar.
I'll stop there. I could reference the many Apple Applications that aren't on Linux to expound upon why I want to us OS X.
I don't use OS X because I just want to run a Mac version of a PC equivalent piece of software.
I want to develop with ObjC/Cocoa. I want to leverage the functionality that is seemlessly integrated within OS X.
I use Linux daily--Debian Sid. I have used it daily for over 6 years.
It's not OS X and it's Development Environment for ObjC -- GNUstep is 5 or more years away from being equivalent--in short, it will always be behind Apple as it depends on Apple to keep Openstep compliance and Cocoa conformance rudimentary similar.
I'll stop there. I could reference the many Apple Applications that aren't on Linux to expound upon why I want to us OS X.
i said that to target normal users not heavy users.. hahhaa... if you want to develop cocoa.. then yeah you have no choice...
but wouldnt you want to develop it on a mac system, which is more stable?
Comments
Bingo. That would be the reason that this product would be successful; Apple does not sell the product that a large number of Mac users want to buy. If someone else comes along as does so, Apple's losses are entirely of their own doing.
I just bought a new iMac, but I'll give it to my son and buy an OpenMac in a heartbeat if it actually comes to fruition, for no other reason than it's the Mac I wanted to buy from Apple in the first place.
assuming they did not break any laws.. Secondly, you have to be careful with software being installed in a machine that is not designed to work. You might find a lot more headache then you think. For example, Vista's compatibility problem with its drivers might occur with this type of installation. There is a reason why people still buy Apple despite higher price than other computer manufacturer.
there is also a reason why Mac OS X "just work". Because it is designed for Apple's machine. In addition, according to the article Appleinsider, Mac sales have gone up despite economic downturn and keep increasing its market share. So this means that Mac computers are not over price. It doesnt make much sense if people think Apple is expensive and sales has increased. So, most people probably think its worth it to buy it.
You got that right
Anyway, what would you feel if Apple offer a mid range desktop computer that is not upgradeable? Would you still want it?
Yes, I would want it. Even though all my prior PC's were all fully expandable, I never upgraded them. I just build a new PC every 2 or three years because the technology was just so much better that it made no sense to upgrade a PC. It was just a viscous cycle that would not end.
Anyway from my opinion, this method of making people buy their product while in truth you can do exactly the same thing on your own 3 years old PC is bad.
True to a point. However, you can't expect Apple to help you when OSX doesn't work on that three-year-old video card. In my experience and to all the users I help as well as friends, they rarely have any machines older than three years. Where money is an issue, obviously they wait longer.
The reason I switched to Mac is for the peace of mind. I don't have to worry about driver/OS update problems and I don't have to pay money if the computer breaks (yes I bought Apple Care). I got my iMac logic board replaced on warranty few months ago ($400 value for the parts).
So you bought an extended replacement warranty and used it. I suppose such things don't exist on other PCs? As much as I like OS X, it's hardly perfect. Especially Leopard, which many consider to be an awful upgrade that has caused an enormous number of problems. It hasn't been called Apple's version of Vista for nothing.
Just like those who jailbreak their iPhones. those who buy Hacked Mac computers are missing the most important features of any Apple product. Sure you can save $100 or $200, but is it worth the trouble and headache if you have problem?!
Upgrades?! My iMac is 18 months old and I really don't see a need for any upgrade. Nothing really new except the aluminum case and a small increase in processors speed. I think I can go another year at least without worrying about an upgrade.
That's great for you, but quite a few people aren't satisfied with the relatively low performance of an iMac and can't see paying more than $2k for the base-model Mac Pro. The Hackintosh I helped build is nearly 1/3 the price of a Mac Pro, not $100 or $200 less. It's almost as fast and has a lot more RAM and disk space than the base model.
Not only that, it will probably be a noisy piece of junk just like all the other PC's since the hardware won't be controlled by the software and the fans will run full speed all the time. Yeah, that is what people want. Since Apple's hardware is already flying off store shelves, people are willing to spend money for quality. They aren't looking for a cheap piece of junk. That is what Windows users want.
Apple already had a mid-tower, the Power Mac G3 and G4. If you really want a tower, buy a Mac Pro. Apple isn't losing any money over not offering a cheap tower. Laptops already outsell desktops, and the iMac is very successful. So I think your market for a cheap mid-tower is pretty small. Small enough where Apple doesn't need one, which is why they phased out the smaller G3/G4 tower box and left the Mac Pro for the Pros.
Those were not midrange mid-towers. Those were Apple's top of the line pro machines at the time. The Mac Pro did not magically replace the G3/G4 because Apple needed more internal space. The PowerMac G5 came before the Mac Pro, and that had only two hard drive bays for the same "full size tower" design. Do get your facts straight.
As for your fan statement, boy are you behind the times. Every modern motherboard I've seen has PWM speed control for all fans, just like Apple, so they hardly "run full speed all the time." Like it or not, today's Intel-based Apple motherboards are nothing more than slightly tweaked versions of mainstream motherboards. There's nothing special about them. More than just Windows users want less expensive machines. If every Mac user were willing to pay more, why isn't the Mac Pro the best selling maching in Apple's lineup?
hopefully Apple will make some new (cheaper) cinema displays (20", 24", 30", 36") with high-quality iSight camera and mic, with an optional matte or glossy display.
A "cheaper" display from Apple would still be up to twice the price of its competition. And there's no excuse about it costing more because Apple needs to make it high quality to work with OS X.
Apple machines work well because everything is designed to work well together. OSX in the wild would have the same problems as the windows environment. Unstable software components wreaking havoc and ruining the user-experience.
You're really out of the Hackintosh loop. Everyone there understands that any problems they may encounter are because they're trying to run OS X on unsupported machines. They don't blame Apple, except when it really is Apple's fault. I've used genuine Macs for more years than any of these Johnny-come-latelies (especially the ones who say they're just about to buy their first Mac), but I'm willing to admit when Apple screws up. There are so many ways Leopard doesn't work as well as Tiger did (despite the new features), and you can't blame anyone but Apple for that.
Apple having complete control over hardware and software is why they work so well.
Except when they don't work so well. How about that AI article today about yet another problem with their hardware? This is not the first time, either. There have been numerous battery recalls, problems with discoloration on notebooks, other display problems with both laptop and Cinema Displays, etc.
If that were true, eBay wouldn't be nearly as good as it is, now, would it?
First of all, it is nothing like Ebay. Because when you sell something on Ebay, you did not alter the Mac products usage. When you knowingly or not altered its use, you have violated the agreement.
So you bought an extended replacement warranty and used it. I suppose such things don't exist on other PCs? As much as I like OS X, it's hardly perfect. Especially Leopard, which many consider to be an awful upgrade that has caused an enormous number of problems. It hasn't been called Apple's version of Vista for nothing.
I used Sony Vaio before, and the service is no where as good as the macs. Sorry pc people, Mac's warranty is worth every penny. Because they replace everything for free and its fast. Sony's warranty.. not as fast and their service is ok at best. so its not worth to pay $400.
secondly, no operating system is perfect. What makes leopard different then vista is that the drivers works and it boots a lot faster than vista. If you want to be picky, OS X makes computing easier than vista. And also, no one in the mac community cries "save the old OS" like windows "save XP". despite being called apple's version of vista, i can honestly say it is still better than vista, in that most users still find it an upgrade from the old OS. and dont forget the most obvious reason, Mac doesnt have a lot of virus (yet).
The logical error in the thinking behind your post and piot's is that it assumes Apple wouldn't have done as well or better without the iMac.
Actually Ink that's not very logical. Pointing out that Apple's Mac sales (without your desired system) are ACTUALLY growing much much faster than the rest of the PC market (with a hundred different versions of your miditower) has a bit more weight than just saying "I want one, so everyone else wants one too".
The fact that Psystar put themselves on the map overnight by offering a Mac mid-range tower speaks volumes, as far as I'm concerned. Who heard of these guys two days ago?
Oh Ink! Why is it always about you? Psytar is on the map because they are offering a non-Apple Mac. Period. Do you think that they would just be ignored if they were offering a $500 MacBook clone? Sigh.
Where do you get the idea that I, as a consumer, must support Apple? If they don't have a product I want, then maybe a competitor should be allowed to step in to provide it.
The OpenMac looks pretty damn good to me. Then again, I think the iMac and its Las Vegas glossy display sucks and the Mini is a freakin' overpriced box of circa-2006 leftovers. I've been using Macs for 15+ years and Apple, for the first time since I've been using Macs, has nothing that fits my needs and budget. And Apple apparently cannot hear the numerous calls from both consumers and high profile tech commentators for them to release a mid-range tower.
Somewhere along the way, it appears that Apple lost their passion for making decent computers and are too infatuated with selling music and making cell phones. Look at the buyer's guide on MacRumors and explain why Apple is taking almost a year between updates on the iMac and the Mac Mini now? It wasn't like that three years ago. We could count on regular price drops or spec bumps every 4-5 months. But now Apple is showing a surprising lack of interest in their consumer machines.
So you think I should support Apple? How about if Apple gets with the program and gets out of this 1998 all-in-one mentality and start making the products that people really want?
the answer is simple, Apple simply not interested in the market you are describing. If its big big enough and Apple has the resource, why wouldnt they do it? I dont think they are that stupid to ignore a "large market" if they think its a large market.
If you don't like what Apple has to offer, then go somewhere else. No other OSX options? Well, that is just too bad! Apple has every right to safeguard their systems to prevent chop-shops like these guys from diluting and tarnishing OSX. Apple having complete control over hardware and software is why they work so well. What part of that equation do you not understand? You are in such a ridiculously low minority of people who think that the iMac hardware is inferior. You're just more vocal. They may not use the most current components out there but they definitely work more in harmony with the OS than Windows. Stick with Windows or Linux. It's obvious that OSX is not for you. If Apple does not come out with a low-end Mac Pro, then they don't. Move on with your life.
Some people agree with you (I'm one of them) but sadly, there are a majority of people who dont get the message.
So you bought an extended replacement warranty and used it. I suppose such things don't exist on other PCs? As much as I like OS X, it's hardly perfect. Especially Leopard, which many consider to be an awful upgrade that has caused an enormous number of problems. It hasn't been called Apple's version of Vista for nothing.
Since when Leopard is known as Apples Vista? Bugs? Every OS in the world has bugs, that doesnt make it sucky. You want to know why Leopard is not Vista, cause it works. It has a lot of new features that works unlike Vista which features are only for looks and Ooooosssss. and your old 3 years old Printer + Scanner + Fax machine works with Leopard unlike Vista, so LEOPARD is NOT Vista, get your facts right. And you dont hear people yelling or posting in YouTube or forums about save Tiger dont upgrade to Leopard cause in truth you are downgrading!!!. I never heard of that before, I know I heard it from users who use Vista
That's great for you, but quite a few people aren't satisfied with the relatively low performance of an iMac but can't see paying more than $2k for the base-model Mac Pro. The Hackintosh I helped build is nearly 1/3 the price of a Mac Pro, not $100 or $200 less. It's almost as fast and has a lot more RAM and disk space than the base model.
I want you to think hard why Leopard doesn't need to have suites like Vista (HB, HP, B, U). Let me help you, its cause they are using the money they get from their hardwares to support the development of OS X, do you think if Apple only sell software they can offer Leopard at the price you are paying now?
You're really out of the Hackintosh loop. Everyone there understands that any problems they may encounter are because they're trying to run OS X on unsupported machines. They don't blame Apple, except when it really is Apple's fault. I've used genuine Macs for more years than any of these Johnny-come-latelies (especially the ones who say they're just about to buy their first Mac), but I'm willing to admit when Apple screws up. There are so many ways Leopard doesn't work as well as Tiger did (despite the new features), and you can't blame anyone but Apple for that.
You are correct about this, but once a company like this OpenMac start offering it for the public, the public dont understand the true situation and when something goes wrong, they will start blaming Apple where in truth, Apple never supported the Hackintosh project. I myself run Hackintosh but sometime I just wish Im getting an Apple (this May).
Besides, I consider mid tower worthless if its not upgradeable (GPU, Processor and etc) cause people who upgrade their computers are usually gamers. Besides, your Mac now would last another 5 years and by that time, softwares would finally not work on your Mac cause its slow and its time to upgrade, 5 years is good investment and by that time technology would be advanced and naturally you would want to upgrade.
Apple do not have an obligation to make a product you want. they have rights to their products. its the same thing as all of us have the right to vote. I will give the three magical words: "We can choose."
Document Number\tP07000077580
FEI Number\tNONE
Date Filed\t07/06/2007
State\tFL
Status\tACTIVE
Effective Date\t07/01/2007
Principal Address
10645 SW 112 ST
MIAMI FL 33176
Mailing Address
10645 SW 112 ST
MIAMI FL 33176
Registered Agent Name & Address
PEDRAZA, RODOLFO
10645 SW 112 ST
MIAMI FL 33176 US
Officer/Director Detail
Name & Address
Title D
PEDRAZA, RODOLFO
10645 SW 112 ST
MIAMI FL 33176
Title D
PEDRAZA, ROBERTO
10645 SW 112 ST
MIAMI FL 33176
Annual Reports
No Annual Reports Filed
First of all, it is nothing like Ebay. Because when you sell something on Ebay, you did not alter the Mac products usage. When you knowingly or not altered its use, you have violated the agreement.
Are you saying that the 1723 unlocked iphones currently for sale on ebay haven't been altered in any way?
Are you saying that the 1723 unlocked iphones currently for sale on ebay haven't been altered in any way?
Did i say mac product or Apple product? hm.. i think there is a difference... Macs are the computers.
Didnt Apple brick those phones with their update? or are you saying apple should sue them one by one? Apple is not that stupid man. Why would they sue their customer. There is no point because its too many and besides, the most they can get out of them is probably $5000.. its the same thing as illegal windows xp copies being sold in other countries. Why dont microsoft sue them?
And yes, those phones are illegally altered, so it violates the agreement. and still, that has nothing to do with ebay. If ebay were selling those products, then that might be a lawsuit worth pursuing for Apple.
and please stop comparing ebay with psystar. Ebay is just a mean. They dont personally sell the items. Psystar is personnaly selling the product
Are you saying that the 1723 unlocked iphones currently for sale on ebay haven't been altered in any way?
Unlocked phones do go against the agreement, unless they are factory unlocked like the ones being sold in France in Germany. One shouldn't expect Apple to bend over backwards to help you with software issues that are caused by a software jailbreak or unlock.
Didnt Apple brick those phones with their update?
Some iPhones were bricked by stupid users that tried to put Apple's iPhone software on their jailbroken device. They should have reverted to factory settings and then installed it, or waited 5 minutes for the hacker community to create a solution. There is no evidence that Apple added code to brick the devices. The logical answer is that Apple didn't take the jailbroken devices into consideration when creating their update. Though, the last update does have some evidence that Apple may be taking that into consideration now. We'll see with the next update.
Didnt Apple brick those phones with their update? or are you saying apple should sue them one by one? Apple is not that stupid man. Why would they sue their customer. There is no point because its too many and besides, the most they can get out of them is probably $5000.. its the same thing as illegal windows xp copies being sold in other countries. Why dont microsoft sue them?
And yes, those phones are illegally altered. and still, that has nothing to do with ebay.
You're taking my comments out of context. I was originally replyiing to:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post
That may be true, however, one company cannot distribute another companies product without its permission. Amongst other legal theories, that is a blatant violation of Trademark law. Consequently, this company could never legally distribute OSX without Apple's permission.
I was using eBay as an example of redistributing another company's product without permission. I could also have used newspaper classified ads as an example. There's nothing against the law in the western world with reselling something you've bought, and if you want to paint a chair or unlock an iPhone or circuit bend a Speak and Spell or install OSX on a Dell computer, the worst the manufacturer can do is void the warranty.
You're taking my comments out of context. I was originally replyiing to:
I was using eBay as an example of redistributing another company's product without permission. I could also have used newspaper classified ads as an example. There's nothing against the law in the western world with reselling something you've bought, and if you want to paint a chair or unlock an iPhone or circuit bend a Speak and Spell or install OSX on a Dell computer, the worst the manufacturer can do is void the warranty.
ohh ok i get it.
I think Tbell is missing the point. The violation is not in the distribution part. its in the installation of the product. UELA: one cannot install Leopard on a non-apple machine.
You're taking my comments out of context. I was originally replyiing to:
I was using eBay as an example of redistributing another company's product without permission. I could also have used newspaper classified ads as an example. There's nothing against the law in the western world with reselling something you've bought, and if you want to paint a chair or unlock an iPhone or circuit bend a Speak and Spell or install OSX on a Dell computer, the worst the manufacturer can do is void the warranty.
but didnt they have a law where you cannot distribute a new product or something?? cause most of the stuff in ebay is technically second hand. Regardless of what the user say about them. because they bought from Apple first. Thats why companies need permission for distributing Apple's new product.
Being from the area, I instantly recognized that this address is smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood in Kendall, complete with swimming pool in his backyard. There is not a commercial piece of property with a mile.
Indeed, the company was just incorporated in July of 2007, does not even have an FEI number, has never filed a corporate report with the State of Florida-- this really looks like a top notch corporate operation, doesn't it?
You all send in your money and let us know how things work out, okay?
Hey-- but he only charges $45.00 for one hour of on-site computer service: what a deal.....
But remember, if it looks like a duck, has web feet, walks like a duck, and quacks-- it probably is a duck! I believe that this is exactly what it looks like... be sure to look yourself before getting all excited.
The days of a guy in his garage making mainstream computers is long gone people!
Didn't any of you (except Benton) bother to check just who "Psystar" is?
Being from the area, I instantly recognized that this address is smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood in Kendall, complete with swimming pool in his backyard. There is not a commercial piece of property with a mile.
Indeed, the company was just incorporated in July of 2007, does not even have an FEI number, has never filed a corporate report with the State of Florida-- this really looks like a top notch corporate operation, doesn't it?
You all send in your money and let us know how things work out, okay?
Hey-- but he only charges $45.00 for one hour of on-site computer service: what a deal.....
But remember, if it looks like a duck, has web feet, walks like a duck, and quacks-- it probably is a duck! I believe that this is exactly what it looks like... be sure to look yourself before getting all excited.
The days of a guy in his garage making mainstream computers is long gone people!
i did. on the site, it says 2008 copyright. So they are pretty new. And im guessing they do not have the experience to handle lawsuits.. and if what you are saying is true, then this is a very new company with no credibility. So better not trust what they said in regard with the lawsuit.
OK people, if you have a problem with the way Apple market their product, why dont you make your own Mac like OS. Seriously, you can do it with linux. And its free. Whats stopping you? dont waste your time arguing on what Apple should do.
Apple do not have an obligation to make a product you want. they have rights to their products. its the same thing as all of us have the right to vote. I will give the three magical words: "We can choose."
I don't use OS X because I just want to run a Mac version of a PC equivalent piece of software.
I want to develop with ObjC/Cocoa. I want to leverage the functionality that is seemlessly integrated within OS X.
I use Linux daily--Debian Sid. I have used it daily for over 6 years.
It's not OS X and it's Development Environment for ObjC -- GNUstep is 5 or more years away from being equivalent--in short, it will always be behind Apple as it depends on Apple to keep Openstep compliance and Cocoa conformance rudimentary similar.
I'll stop there. I could reference the many Apple Applications that aren't on Linux to expound upon why I want to us OS X.
I don't use OS X because I just want to run a Mac version of a PC equivalent piece of software.
I want to develop with ObjC/Cocoa. I want to leverage the functionality that is seemlessly integrated within OS X.
I use Linux daily--Debian Sid. I have used it daily for over 6 years.
It's not OS X and it's Development Environment for ObjC -- GNUstep is 5 or more years away from being equivalent--in short, it will always be behind Apple as it depends on Apple to keep Openstep compliance and Cocoa conformance rudimentary similar.
I'll stop there. I could reference the many Apple Applications that aren't on Linux to expound upon why I want to us OS X.
i said that to target normal users not heavy users.. hahhaa... if you want to develop cocoa.. then yeah you have no choice...
but wouldnt you want to develop it on a mac system, which is more stable?