It seems he suggests that all video is protected under licence agreements, if it isn't "home videos"... which is probably almost true most of the cases. Therefore he assumes that if a video without DRM is added to the library it's most sertainly pirated and should be reported. After all there is no official DVD/movie licence agreement that gives the user the right to convert its legally prchased DVD/movie into another format (which is crap anyway).
Where's the license agreement for CDs that allows people to convert their music into a different format? I doubt Apple would distribute iTunes with CD ripping, tagging and album art feature if it were even the slightest bit gray. If it weren't for the DMCA (in the US anyway), the same would probably be true of movies too.
Where's the license agreement for CDs that allows people to convert their music into a different format? I doubt Apple would distribute iTunes with CD ripping, tagging and album art feature if it were even the slightest bit gray. If it weren't for the DMCA (in the US anyway), the same would probably be true of movies too.
The piracy bit is such nonsense. There is no widespread piracy of iTunes videos. They're much safer than DVDs or TV broadcasts.
Exactly! What the freaking hell is this idiot talking about? I think the NBC exec just doesn't want to look like he is crawling back to Apple and begging. He should just shut the hell up and just say that he wants to get back in on itunes like the dumb baby he with hat in hand to Steve Jobs N company. itunes piracy......ORLY?? Pleaseeeeeeeeee!
What a complete wanker. More of the same BS we've been hearing for the last 10 years. They need to wake up, the world is not the same as it was when the big labels and studios controlled most of the content distribution. What they need is not yet another DRM and other restrictions for content playback but to take their heads out of their a$$es and innovate! Better yet, retire the old guard losers and replace them with more capable/innovative executives.
I hereby name George Kliavkoff for the "biggest douche in the universe" award. I doubt he has much chance of ever surpassing John Edward but at this pace, he's well on his way.
I thought George Bush, Jr was nominated for that already?
The best antidote to piracy is to make legally buying the thing easier. iTunes is the best at this because the store is built right in to the Jukebox. So ITunes already has the best anti piracy measure.
Gandalf the semi-coherent said: "No, Mr. Kliavkoff, the market will determine the full value of the product. Not you. And the market has spoken. $1.99 is fair. Anything more is pure greed. And pure greed on the part of content providers is one of the reasons for piracy. Price it fairly and we'll gladly pay. Try to fleece us and we'll find other options."
Folks - we don't need someone to tell us we've done something illegal.
We don't need someone looking over our shoulders.
Helll, at the prices for music and videos from iTunes, I'm sure the amount of illegal downloads has gone down.
The folks that are still doing this, are likely to be youngsters or folks who can't afford .99 (Not many folks)
Your likely to find a lot of the music on iPods (and other MP3 players) is music that someone had, but couldn't download somewhere (old or hard to get).
Is there illegal music out there … helll yes! Is it has bad as folks make it out to be, I don't think so. I think you'll find most people have a movie or 2 that they didn't pay for, because it isn't out yet, or it's not available for $1.99 yet.
What's done is done… let's Grandfather all past actions, and get more content available sooner at $1.99 and let's not give folks a reason to want / have to get it illegally.
I sure in helll don't know how the itunes / NBC police are going to round up all of the folks who may have something illegal on their iPods / MP3 players. Helll "I didn't put it on there" "I didn't even know it was on there" "It must have been put on by one of my MANY friends I let use my iPod / MP3 player. "I don't watch that pieces of shiiit show and wouldn't have in on my iPod (if I would have know it was on it, I would have trashed it myself)"
There will be a ton of excuses from folks on this.
- Ok, so I purchase a friends iPod, (who purchased it from someone else) - so go get those people?
Are they going to put some kind of GPS system so they can track us down …
I mean the more I write, the more pissed I get.
NBC … just get over your self, come back crawling. Folks will soon forget and your stock holders will be happy again.
Skip
PS Shiit, Big Brother reads this list … I'm doomed
What NBC wants is completely possible, unlikely to be implemented by apple, and also ridiculous.
The iPhone uses code signing to prevent unsigned apps from running, the same could be done on iPods or iTunes, even for non-drm tracks. You simply insert a cryptographic signature in the ID3 tag of an MP3 or the file metadata for a video, certifying that this specific file is signed by Apple or some other company, and thus the device will play it. DRM isn't required at all, the file will in fact play anywhere, but devices will ONLY play such signed files.
Its ridiculous but technologically possible.
Not really. What if I record a TV show off the air and then convert it to my iPod. That's perfectly legal. I can also transfer it any of my own iPods I wish.
Now, what if I give that same show to a friend - which is probably illegal.
How does iTunes tell the difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas
It seems he suggests that all video is protected under licence agreements, if it isn't "home videos"... which is probably almost true most of the cases.
Not true. Any video you record off the air can be transferred to your iPod legally - under the old VCR recording rules. As long as you use it for your own personal use, they can't restrict you from doing it.
The statistics people use to prove how iPods are just so full of pirated material has always had a very high BS-quotient. It doesn't take into account the CDs the iPod owners already owned, and later purchased. And it also never took into into account that every time I buy a new iPod, I don't have to buy all my music over again. They like to divide number of tracks sold vs number of iPods sold. So if I buy a second iPod, I've somehow doubled my piracy value in those calculations.
The people who invented these statistics simply did something bogus with math, which seemed to support the argument they were already making... and for some reason, because math was involved, people just happily quoted the results without a lot of rational scrutiny.
I would be one user who fits your model ... 40 GIGS of my Own CDs, all purchased from stores over many years and probably 10 albums bought from iTunes.
I can't believe NBC has people in charge of their on-line strategy who are this clueless. I'd be embarrassed as a company to have someone on my digital team this stupid.
I feel badly for Apple who has to conduct negotiations with these guys.
Apple: At $1.99 retail, your cut will be $1.50 per download.
NBC: Does that come with a Llama? Will it be purple?
The issue isn't piracy of itunes videos, I think that's pretty much non-existent. It sounds like NBC wants iTunes to somehow recognize a video from bittorrent and either block it from working or report the user.
I don't see how that's technologically possible, how would iTunes be able to tell a pirated movie or TV show from something released free on the net, or a users own home movie?
Seems like a ludicrous and completely unrealistic request from NBC.
And I have to agree that I'd probably use something like Hulu or the other sites streaming TV shows, but so far there's no way to watch them on my TV set. Get together with apple and make them appleTV compatible, and you'll get my business.
It would be pretty easy; the owner of the video could submit a request to block a video (from bit torrent or where ever) and iTunes could serve up an MD5 (or equivalent fingerprint) of the video to block. Apple would be in the dubious position to somehow validate the claim of ownership, but that would not be too hard for most of the stuff that NBC wants to block.
Edit: Please don't flame me. This approach will only handle the bit torrent stuff (since it is the same bit stream for everyone receiving it). It would not stop people from locally digitizing the content, since that would not result in the same file each time.
It would be relatively easy to do; the question is whether Apple wants to be the digital content cop or not?!?!
if you don't sell your videos on iTunes, where do you think people will get them? oh yeah, they'll pirate it, or get it on their tivos where they'll skip commercials and still not pay for content.
i don't understand why they don't seem to think apple's DRM is good enough.
i also don't understand why nbc wants iTunes to police their library for pirated songs. are they serious? that would render iTunes into a useless application!! 99% of everyone with itunes has pirated songs. PEOPLE PIRATE MUSIC AND MOVIES BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFICULT TO GET DIGITALLY! people WANT to buy movies online, but it's too difficult (usually impossible) to even burn them to a DVD, put them on whatever device they want, or even play them on a TV.
i'm so glad steve doesn't bow to these idiots. he doesn't need their business, but NBC does need apple's business. they are stuck in the past. apple knows where the market is heading, and our media companies are just CLUELESS.
How about the Betamax case in the late 70's? That doesn't cover DVDs now, but it's trivial to make personal recordings of unencrypted TV, meaning that maybe not all non-itunes video is pirated. The same can go for home movies.
"They can mark up the price and make a profit or use it as a loss leader to get people in the door," Kliavkoff said. "It's really difficult for us to work with any distribution partner who says 'Here's the wholesale price and the retail price,' especially when the price doesn't reflect the full value of the product."
I would have thought the reason why piracy is so rife is precisely because the sellers overestimate the value of their product. I would get pretty annoyed if for example networks suddenly charged more towards the end of a TV series, relying on emotional investment to leverage more dough out of the viewing audience. If Kliavkoff wants to be a dealer he should probably sell heroin instead.
The only problem I have with current iTunes pricing is that tracks over ten minutes are automatically "album only". There are several tracks just over 10 minutes that I would like to buy individually but haven't because I can't justify $17 for one track. I think I have a fair idea why the restriction is there but still wish there was another option.
Comments
It seems he suggests that all video is protected under licence agreements, if it isn't "home videos"... which is probably almost true most of the cases. Therefore he assumes that if a video without DRM is added to the library it's most sertainly pirated and should be reported. After all there is no official DVD/movie licence agreement that gives the user the right to convert its legally prchased DVD/movie into another format (which is crap anyway).
Where's the license agreement for CDs that allows people to convert their music into a different format? I doubt Apple would distribute iTunes with CD ripping, tagging and album art feature if it were even the slightest bit gray. If it weren't for the DMCA (in the US anyway), the same would probably be true of movies too.
Where's the license agreement for CDs that allows people to convert their music into a different format? I doubt Apple would distribute iTunes with CD ripping, tagging and album art feature if it were even the slightest bit gray. If it weren't for the DMCA (in the US anyway), the same would probably be true of movies too.
Audio Home Recording Act of 1992
The piracy bit is such nonsense. There is no widespread piracy of iTunes videos. They're much safer than DVDs or TV broadcasts.
Exactly! What the freaking hell is this idiot talking about? I think the NBC exec just doesn't want to look like he is crawling back to Apple and begging. He should just shut the hell up and just say that he wants to get back in on itunes like the dumb baby he with hat in hand to Steve Jobs N company. itunes piracy......ORLY?? Pleaseeeeeeeeee!
I hereby name George Kliavkoff for the "biggest douche in the universe" award. I doubt he has much chance of ever surpassing John Edward but at this pace, he's well on his way.
I thought George Bush, Jr was nominated for that already?
I thought George Bush, Jr was nominated for that already?
I think you find he is the current holder of the title
nothing more to add.
We don't need someone looking over our shoulders.
Helll, at the prices for music and videos from iTunes, I'm sure the amount of illegal downloads has gone down.
The folks that are still doing this, are likely to be youngsters or folks who can't afford .99 (Not many folks)
Your likely to find a lot of the music on iPods (and other MP3 players) is music that someone had, but couldn't download somewhere (old or hard to get).
Is there illegal music out there … helll yes! Is it has bad as folks make it out to be, I don't think so. I think you'll find most people have a movie or 2 that they didn't pay for, because it isn't out yet, or it's not available for $1.99 yet.
What's done is done… let's Grandfather all past actions, and get more content available sooner at $1.99 and let's not give folks a reason to want / have to get it illegally.
I sure in helll don't know how the itunes / NBC police are going to round up all of the folks who may have something illegal on their iPods / MP3 players. Helll "I didn't put it on there" "I didn't even know it was on there" "It must have been put on by one of my MANY friends I let use my iPod / MP3 player. "I don't watch that pieces of shiiit show and wouldn't have in on my iPod (if I would have know it was on it, I would have trashed it myself)"
There will be a ton of excuses from folks on this.
- Ok, so I purchase a friends iPod, (who purchased it from someone else) - so go get those people?
Are they going to put some kind of GPS system so they can track us down …
I mean the more I write, the more pissed I get.
NBC … just get over your self, come back crawling. Folks will soon forget and your stock holders will be happy again.
Skip
PS Shiit, Big Brother reads this list … I'm doomed
What NBC wants is completely possible, unlikely to be implemented by apple, and also ridiculous.
The iPhone uses code signing to prevent unsigned apps from running, the same could be done on iPods or iTunes, even for non-drm tracks. You simply insert a cryptographic signature in the ID3 tag of an MP3 or the file metadata for a video, certifying that this specific file is signed by Apple or some other company, and thus the device will play it. DRM isn't required at all, the file will in fact play anywhere, but devices will ONLY play such signed files.
Its ridiculous but technologically possible.
Not really. What if I record a TV show off the air and then convert it to my iPod. That's perfectly legal. I can also transfer it any of my own iPods I wish.
Now, what if I give that same show to a friend - which is probably illegal.
How does iTunes tell the difference?
It seems he suggests that all video is protected under licence agreements, if it isn't "home videos"... which is probably almost true most of the cases.
Not true. Any video you record off the air can be transferred to your iPod legally - under the old VCR recording rules. As long as you use it for your own personal use, they can't restrict you from doing it.
The statistics people use to prove how iPods are just so full of pirated material has always had a very high BS-quotient. It doesn't take into account the CDs the iPod owners already owned, and later purchased. And it also never took into into account that every time I buy a new iPod, I don't have to buy all my music over again. They like to divide number of tracks sold vs number of iPods sold. So if I buy a second iPod, I've somehow doubled my piracy value in those calculations.
The people who invented these statistics simply did something bogus with math, which seemed to support the argument they were already making... and for some reason, because math was involved, people just happily quoted the results without a lot of rational scrutiny.
I would be one user who fits your model ... 40 GIGS of my Own CDs, all purchased from stores over many years and probably 10 albums bought from iTunes.
I thought George Bush, Jr was nominated for that already?
That and history will no doubt add a few more, ... hell, a load more!
I can't believe NBC has people in charge of their on-line strategy who are this clueless. I'd be embarrassed as a company to have someone on my digital team this stupid.
I feel badly for Apple who has to conduct negotiations with these guys.
Apple: At $1.99 retail, your cut will be $1.50 per download.
NBC: Does that come with a Llama? Will it be purple?
Apple: <sigh>
If there was just a device that could filter the things we say before we say them. Damn there have to be such a device.
The issue isn't piracy of itunes videos, I think that's pretty much non-existent. It sounds like NBC wants iTunes to somehow recognize a video from bittorrent and either block it from working or report the user.
I don't see how that's technologically possible, how would iTunes be able to tell a pirated movie or TV show from something released free on the net, or a users own home movie?
Seems like a ludicrous and completely unrealistic request from NBC.
And I have to agree that I'd probably use something like Hulu or the other sites streaming TV shows, but so far there's no way to watch them on my TV set. Get together with apple and make them appleTV compatible, and you'll get my business.
It would be pretty easy; the owner of the video could submit a request to block a video (from bit torrent or where ever) and iTunes could serve up an MD5 (or equivalent fingerprint) of the video to block. Apple would be in the dubious position to somehow validate the claim of ownership, but that would not be too hard for most of the stuff that NBC wants to block.
Edit: Please don't flame me. This approach will only handle the bit torrent stuff (since it is the same bit stream for everyone receiving it). It would not stop people from locally digitizing the content, since that would not result in the same file each time.
It would be relatively easy to do; the question is whether Apple wants to be the digital content cop or not?!?!
i don't understand why they don't seem to think apple's DRM is good enough.
i also don't understand why nbc wants iTunes to police their library for pirated songs. are they serious? that would render iTunes into a useless application!! 99% of everyone with itunes has pirated songs. PEOPLE PIRATE MUSIC AND MOVIES BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFICULT TO GET DIGITALLY! people WANT to buy movies online, but it's too difficult (usually impossible) to even burn them to a DVD, put them on whatever device they want, or even play them on a TV.
i'm so glad steve doesn't bow to these idiots. he doesn't need their business, but NBC does need apple's business. they are stuck in the past. apple knows where the market is heading, and our media companies are just CLUELESS.
Audio Home Recording Act of 1992
How about the Betamax case in the late 70's? That doesn't cover DVDs now, but it's trivial to make personal recordings of unencrypted TV, meaning that maybe not all non-itunes video is pirated. The same can go for home movies.
"They can mark up the price and make a profit or use it as a loss leader to get people in the door," Kliavkoff said. "It's really difficult for us to work with any distribution partner who says 'Here's the wholesale price and the retail price,' especially when the price doesn't reflect the full value of the product."
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
I would have thought the reason why piracy is so rife is precisely because the sellers overestimate the value of their product. I would get pretty annoyed if for example networks suddenly charged more towards the end of a TV series, relying on emotional investment to leverage more dough out of the viewing audience. If Kliavkoff wants to be a dealer he should probably sell heroin instead.
The only problem I have with current iTunes pricing is that tracks over ten minutes are automatically "album only". There are several tracks just over 10 minutes that I would like to buy individually but haven't because I can't justify $17 for one track. I think I have a fair idea why the restriction is there but still wish there was another option.