Maybe. But the attitude of most people here and other sites, Europeans in particular, is this "iPhone sucks because it is not using 3G". No one said the same thing about RIM.
Granted. But RIM is a email/business machine, not meant for consumers. Their comparing the iPhone to phones like Nokia N95. Consumer phones have a different standard than business phones.
Nevertheless, I cant argue that it isn't funny to watch RIM users complain about iphone lack of 3G.
I wonder how much more expensive would that be than just using Intel's general chips?
How would Apple deal with an architecture split for the iPhone after 200,000 - 300,000 developers have made apps for ARM?
Well, Apple could want to ad a few functions that others wouldn't have. Intel could license them to do that. If the chips are small, and the mods small, it might not cost too much.
Certainly far less then designing an entire chip.
Supposedly everything is portable. These apps are much smaller than normal OS X apps, a move would be much less wrenching, and the developers would likely prefer working on x86 anyway. Future apps would be easier.
The purchase may be insurance as well as a reminder to Intel to not take things for granted - if things continue work out with Intel, fine - if not, Apple will have been pursuing parallel internal development to protect its business interests (not unlike the secret Intel development for years while publicly remaining a PowerPC platform)
Maybe. But the attitude of most people here and other sites, Europeans in particular, is this "iPhone sucks because it is not using 3G". No one said the same thing about RIM.
Maybe RIM isn't even on the radar in Europe? I can't tell. I really don't know. Maybe they're just devices that just don't appeal to anyone that wants a device for personal use.
I still tend to think there's a lucrative product that sits between the iPhone/iTouch and a Laptop.
I think UMPC have the right idea but wrong delivery.
Give me a mini tablet with a widescreen 6" screen and a bit more power. Give me external connectivity (USB/Video/Expresscard) and continue to work on the OS X stack and Core Touch or whateva they call it.
I'd buy one. Make it affordable. Gimme GPS options and more.
What if PA Semi begins to work on multicore SoC options tailored precisely for Apple's needs? It could be a huge hit.
Well, Apple could want to ad a few functions that others wouldn't have. Intel could license them to do that. If the chips are small, and the mods small, it might not cost too much. Certainly far less then designing an entire chip.
Also it doesn't appear PA Semi engineers have much if any experience with x86. They were very strong advocates of Power.
I think you are reaching for the less probable outcome rather than the more probable.
Quote:
Supposedly everything is portable. These apps are much smaller than normal OS X apps, a move would be much less wrenching, and the developers would likely prefer working on x86 anyway. Future apps would be easier.
It seems highly unlikely Apple would build a fresh SDK, API's, and developer community only to soon throw in an architecture change. Its more crucial to get the platform stable right now.
Well you can spin it any way you want but that reads as a blow to Intel IMO.
Intel make no bones about it. They see Moorestown and subsequent Atom cpus as viable for the iPhone. This certainly makes it appear that Apple don't see it that way. The fact that Apple have bought expertise in cpu design make it appear that they have no intention in adopting Atom for the iPhone/iTouch.
I wholeheartedly disagree. I think a large part of the switch to Macs is because of the potential for Boot Camp and visualization of Windows. I doubt Intel is scared of this deal in relation to Apple's Mac line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasper
Yeah -- He's gone. Banned for at least 10 days or unless he can explain himself, which is doubtful.
A form of Tourret Syndrom?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang
The purchase may be insurance as well as a reminder to Intel to not take things for granted - if things continue work out with Intel, fine - if not, Apple will have been pursuing parallel internal development to protect its business interests (not unlike the secret Intel development for years while publicly remaining a PowerPC platform)
Cringely mentions that Apple producing it's own chips could create faster, more efficient chips that are smaller as they wouldn't need to waste precious real estate for unused hardcoding. This makes sense and the best position for this would be in PMPs, MIDs and cell phones. I think we need to look at potential new product lines for Apple, not the current ones.
Also it doesn't appear PA Semi engineers have much if any experience with x86. They were very strong advocates of Power.
I think you are reaching for the less probable outcome rather than the more probable.
I don't think so. After all, we don't know what the relationship between them an Apple was over the past few years. They could have been doing some work at the time Apple moved to Intel.
Quote:
It seems highly unlikely Apple would build a fresh SDK, API's, and developer community only to soon throw in an architecture change. Its more crucial to get the platform stable right now.
Possibly in a few years. But not right now.
This is all just speculation. No one except a very few at Apple and PA Semi know, and they ain't talking.
Again, we don't know.
Remember that all those years, Apple kept their new OS current on Intel.
They could be doing that here as well. I wouldn't be surprised. The phone SDK and all the rest is not more than a good sized add-on to Apples current work, They could be ready to move over in a month.
I suppose that Apple could be using them for more ARN related work. But Apple, doesn't, as far as I know, currently own any relevant ARM API's. I think they gave all of that up when they sold out their shares. Maybe I'm wrong about that. But, otherwise, they would need to get a license. If PA Semi had done so already, it would have been news.
As current engineering, as far as we know, in PA SEmi is involved in PPC, the question is just how much do the currently know about ARM? More than about x86?
Within 5-8 years, Apple will be developing their own CPUs, and will leave intel much they way they left Motorola.
This will put them into a position to fully control every aspect of Mac design and production from Chip to Chassis, and remove their need to rely on any other company less well-run or secure than they are.
It will also remove for another 10-15 years the possibility of Apple suffering the same stability and hacker fates that Windows has suffered, as well as prevent companies like Psystar from knocking off cheap clones.
If you can't get a proprietary Apple CPU, how can you possibly build a clone?
In fact, I would not be surprised if Apple was already developing a new OS to run on their own proprietary CPU platform as we speak.
Within 5-8 years, Apple will be developing their own CPUs, and will leave intel much they way they left Motorola.
This will put them into a position to fully control every aspect of Mac design and production from Chip to Chassis, and remove their need to rely on any other company less well-run or secure than they are.
It will also remove for another 10-15 years the possibility of Apple suffering the same stability and hacker fates that Windows has suffered, as well as prevent companies like Psystar from knocking off cheap clones.
If you can't get a proprietary Apple CPU, how can you possibly build a clone?
In fact, I would not be surprised if Apple was already developing a new OS to run on their own proprietary CPU platform as we speak.
and how will apple get video cards make there own chips or use ATI or NVIDIA? also it may be hard to get apps to more to a new chip.
Maybe. But the attitude of most people here and other sites, Europeans in particular, is this "iPhone sucks because it is not using 3G". No one said the same thing about RIM.
That's because RIM makes 3G products, this report is specifically talking about the new Blackberry 9000, for AT&T's new HSDPA 3G network, on which the iPhone will also be running. The phrasing in the AI article kind of makes it sound like it's RIM's first 3G product, when it's really their first HSDPA 3G product. (I think)
RIM have been shipping 3G models for at least the last 4 years. I think since the 7200 series..
I have a 3G 8830, because it's what I could get on my corporate account. Compared to an iPhone, I'd say the only thing that's really better, is the email (debatable), and the 3G speed. The browser sucks, but I do have unlimited phone as modem, so it connects via bluetooth to my macbook. As a media player it's a complete joke. RIM shouldn't even bother trying, it's just embarrassing. I was shocked when I realized it only had a usb 1 port on it. I think if the iPhone wasn't exclusivly on AT&T, RIM would be totally shitting their pants right now. They probably should be anyways..
In fact, I would not be surprised if Apple was already developing a new OS to run on their own proprietary CPU platform as we speak.
I would be shocked if Apple did not already have Macs running on PWRficient chips at Cupertino. If they DIDN'T, that would be a story all by itself.
I'm inclined to think your take is a pretty accurate indication of what Apple is doing; gearing for an eventual move to their own chips. Any questions about "how will they do this" are irrelevant since we don't know what Apple's plans for those chips might be. For all we know, Apple might get PA Semi design a chip that operates in ways we have no frame of reference for at this time.
I'm inclined to think your take is a pretty accurate indication of what Apple is doing; gearing for an eventual move to their own chips. Any questions about "how will they do this" are irrelevant since we don't know what Apple's plans for those chips might be. For all we know, Apple might get PA Semi design a chip that operates in ways we have no frame of reference for at this time.
I disagree. There is too much benefit to Macs on x86. But personal computers are not the future of technology, embedded devices are. I foresee a version of OS X running on a slew devices in markets we have never seen from Apple.
I would be shocked if Apple did not already have Macs running on PWRficient chips at Cupertino. If they DIDN'T, that would be a story all by itself.
I'm inclined to think your take is a pretty accurate indication of what Apple is doing; gearing for an eventual move to their own chips. .
That just sent a shiver down my spine, I can't help but think of the whole SGI/MIPS debacle. Though really it wasn't a debacle until intel entered the picture.
Although it seems unlikely, PA Semi IP may be used to develop next-gen iPads or whatever else Steve has up his sleeve.
Absolutely.
That doesn't mean it'd be PWRficient either - they have enough ARM expertise, apparently.
In fact, everything Steve said could be said while simultaneously demonstrating a next-gen iPad (or whatever). Look at this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Jobs loves Intel...
"We have a great partnership with Intel,” he said. “We expect that to continue forever."
... there's absolutely no plans to ressurect a PowerPC-based Mac offering.
"I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over that,” he said. “We’re very happy with Intel."
All could be said while releasing anything slightly smaller than a MBA.
edit: Actually, trying to read into what Steve didn't say (as he is often quite precise in his choice of words)...
The paraphrase didn't say "there's absolutely no plans to resurrect a PowerPC-based offering"
the paraphrase said "there's absolutely no plans to resurrect a PowerPC-based Mac offering".
... I wonder what Steve himself said.
(remember though that eeTimes says that PA Semi is getting rid of the PWR chip entirely!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
Intel make no bones about it. They see Moorestown and subsequent Atom cpus as viable for the iPhone. This certainly makes it appear that Apple don't see it that way. The fact that Apple have bought expertise in cpu design make it appear that they have no intention in adopting Atom for the iPhone/iTouch.
Yeah it does doesn't it. At least at this surface level, and I don't know enough about PA-semi to know what it is that's worth so much to Apple.
It could really be that $300million is small change for Apple to get some great designers to push future iPod/iPhone design in amazing directions - quite independent of whether it's Intel or Arm (or PWR)... and simply planning for the future.
I would be shocked if Apple did not already have Macs running on PWRficient chips at Cupertino. If they DIDN'T, that would be a story all by itself.
I'm inclined to think your take is a pretty accurate indication of what Apple is doing; gearing for an eventual move to their own chips. Any questions about "how will they do this" are irrelevant since we don't know what Apple's plans for those chips might be. For all we know, Apple might get PA Semi design a chip that operates in ways we have no frame of reference for at this time.
I'm missing something here. Mac sales BOOMED partially as a result of moving to intel, or moreover their ability to run Windows OS. That ability is a key feature for switchers, and Apple would be throwing that away if they were to move to their own chips.
I've used Macs for as long as I can remember, and the move to intel was a great day for me; I would be pissed if apple were to move to their own chips. As a developer, the ability to run multiple OS's (I have Windows XP Pro SP2 and Ubuntu Client 64-bit installed) allows me to use a Mac as my work computer. I'd hate to see that feature go.
Comments
Maybe. But the attitude of most people here and other sites, Europeans in particular, is this "iPhone sucks because it is not using 3G". No one said the same thing about RIM.
Granted. But RIM is a email/business machine, not meant for consumers. Their comparing the iPhone to phones like Nokia N95. Consumer phones have a different standard than business phones.
Nevertheless, I cant argue that it isn't funny to watch RIM users complain about iphone lack of 3G.
Designed by Apple (PA Semi) Manufactured by Intel
I wonder how much more expensive would that be than just using Intel's general chips?
How would Apple deal with an architecture split for the iPhone after 200,000 - 300,000 developers have made apps for ARM?
Well, Apple could want to ad a few functions that others wouldn't have. Intel could license them to do that. If the chips are small, and the mods small, it might not cost too much.
Certainly far less then designing an entire chip.
Supposedly everything is portable. These apps are much smaller than normal OS X apps, a move would be much less wrenching, and the developers would likely prefer working on x86 anyway. Future apps would be easier.
Maybe. But the attitude of most people here and other sites, Europeans in particular, is this "iPhone sucks because it is not using 3G". No one said the same thing about RIM.
Maybe RIM isn't even on the radar in Europe? I can't tell. I really don't know. Maybe they're just devices that just don't appeal to anyone that wants a device for personal use.
I think UMPC have the right idea but wrong delivery.
Give me a mini tablet with a widescreen 6" screen and a bit more power. Give me external connectivity (USB/Video/Expresscard) and continue to work on the OS X stack and Core Touch or whateva they call it.
I'd buy one. Make it affordable. Gimme GPS options and more.
What if PA Semi begins to work on multicore SoC options tailored precisely for Apple's needs? It could be a huge hit.
Well, Apple could want to ad a few functions that others wouldn't have. Intel could license them to do that. If the chips are small, and the mods small, it might not cost too much. Certainly far less then designing an entire chip.
Also it doesn't appear PA Semi engineers have much if any experience with x86. They were very strong advocates of Power.
I think you are reaching for the less probable outcome rather than the more probable.
Supposedly everything is portable. These apps are much smaller than normal OS X apps, a move would be much less wrenching, and the developers would likely prefer working on x86 anyway. Future apps would be easier.
It seems highly unlikely Apple would build a fresh SDK, API's, and developer community only to soon throw in an architecture change. Its more crucial to get the platform stable right now.
Possibly in a few years. But not right now.
Well you can spin it any way you want but that reads as a blow to Intel IMO.
Intel make no bones about it. They see Moorestown and subsequent Atom cpus as viable for the iPhone. This certainly makes it appear that Apple don't see it that way. The fact that Apple have bought expertise in cpu design make it appear that they have no intention in adopting Atom for the iPhone/iTouch.
I wholeheartedly disagree. I think a large part of the switch to Macs is because of the potential for Boot Camp and visualization of Windows. I doubt Intel is scared of this deal in relation to Apple's Mac line.
Yeah -- He's gone. Banned for at least 10 days or unless he can explain himself, which is doubtful.
A form of Tourret Syndrom?
The purchase may be insurance as well as a reminder to Intel to not take things for granted - if things continue work out with Intel, fine - if not, Apple will have been pursuing parallel internal development to protect its business interests (not unlike the secret Intel development for years while publicly remaining a PowerPC platform)
Cringely mentions that Apple producing it's own chips could create faster, more efficient chips that are smaller as they wouldn't need to waste precious real estate for unused hardcoding. This makes sense and the best position for this would be in PMPs, MIDs and cell phones. I think we need to look at potential new product lines for Apple, not the current ones.
Also it doesn't appear PA Semi engineers have much if any experience with x86. They were very strong advocates of Power.
I think you are reaching for the less probable outcome rather than the more probable.
I don't think so. After all, we don't know what the relationship between them an Apple was over the past few years. They could have been doing some work at the time Apple moved to Intel.
It seems highly unlikely Apple would build a fresh SDK, API's, and developer community only to soon throw in an architecture change. Its more crucial to get the platform stable right now.
Possibly in a few years. But not right now.
This is all just speculation. No one except a very few at Apple and PA Semi know, and they ain't talking.
Again, we don't know.
Remember that all those years, Apple kept their new OS current on Intel.
They could be doing that here as well. I wouldn't be surprised. The phone SDK and all the rest is not more than a good sized add-on to Apples current work, They could be ready to move over in a month.
I suppose that Apple could be using them for more ARN related work. But Apple, doesn't, as far as I know, currently own any relevant ARM API's. I think they gave all of that up when they sold out their shares. Maybe I'm wrong about that. But, otherwise, they would need to get a license. If PA Semi had done so already, it would have been news.
As current engineering, as far as we know, in PA SEmi is involved in PPC, the question is just how much do the currently know about ARM? More than about x86?
Who knows?
Also it doesn't appear PA Semi engineers have much if any experience with x86. They were very strong advocates of Power.
Their staff also seems to be very well versed in ARM and StrongARM, too.
Within 5-8 years, Apple will be developing their own CPUs, and will leave intel much they way they left Motorola.
This will put them into a position to fully control every aspect of Mac design and production from Chip to Chassis, and remove their need to rely on any other company less well-run or secure than they are.
It will also remove for another 10-15 years the possibility of Apple suffering the same stability and hacker fates that Windows has suffered, as well as prevent companies like Psystar from knocking off cheap clones.
If you can't get a proprietary Apple CPU, how can you possibly build a clone?
In fact, I would not be surprised if Apple was already developing a new OS to run on their own proprietary CPU platform as we speak.
MY BIG-TIME PREDICTION #1 ON RECORD HENCEFORTH:
Within 5-8 years, Apple will be developing their own CPUs, and will leave intel much they way they left Motorola.
This will put them into a position to fully control every aspect of Mac design and production from Chip to Chassis, and remove their need to rely on any other company less well-run or secure than they are.
It will also remove for another 10-15 years the possibility of Apple suffering the same stability and hacker fates that Windows has suffered, as well as prevent companies like Psystar from knocking off cheap clones.
If you can't get a proprietary Apple CPU, how can you possibly build a clone?
In fact, I would not be surprised if Apple was already developing a new OS to run on their own proprietary CPU platform as we speak.
and how will apple get video cards make there own chips or use ATI or NVIDIA? also it may be hard to get apps to more to a new chip.
Maybe. But the attitude of most people here and other sites, Europeans in particular, is this "iPhone sucks because it is not using 3G". No one said the same thing about RIM.
That's because RIM makes 3G products, this report is specifically talking about the new Blackberry 9000, for AT&T's new HSDPA 3G network, on which the iPhone will also be running. The phrasing in the AI article kind of makes it sound like it's RIM's first 3G product, when it's really their first HSDPA 3G product. (I think)
RIM have been shipping 3G models for at least the last 4 years. I think since the 7200 series..
I have a 3G 8830, because it's what I could get on my corporate account. Compared to an iPhone, I'd say the only thing that's really better, is the email (debatable), and the 3G speed. The browser sucks, but I do have unlimited phone as modem, so it connects via bluetooth to my macbook. As a media player it's a complete joke. RIM shouldn't even bother trying, it's just embarrassing. I was shocked when I realized it only had a usb 1 port on it. I think if the iPhone wasn't exclusivly on AT&T, RIM would be totally shitting their pants right now. They probably should be anyways..
There staff also seems to be very well versed in ARM and StrongARM, too.
Yeah I've mention that before. I only stated Power in that sentence because it and x86 are more direct competitors.
In fact, I would not be surprised if Apple was already developing a new OS to run on their own proprietary CPU platform as we speak.
I would be shocked if Apple did not already have Macs running on PWRficient chips at Cupertino. If they DIDN'T, that would be a story all by itself.
I'm inclined to think your take is a pretty accurate indication of what Apple is doing; gearing for an eventual move to their own chips. Any questions about "how will they do this" are irrelevant since we don't know what Apple's plans for those chips might be. For all we know, Apple might get PA Semi design a chip that operates in ways we have no frame of reference for at this time.
I'm inclined to think your take is a pretty accurate indication of what Apple is doing; gearing for an eventual move to their own chips. Any questions about "how will they do this" are irrelevant since we don't know what Apple's plans for those chips might be. For all we know, Apple might get PA Semi design a chip that operates in ways we have no frame of reference for at this time.
I disagree. There is too much benefit to Macs on x86. But personal computers are not the future of technology, embedded devices are. I foresee a version of OS X running on a slew devices in markets we have never seen from Apple.
I would be shocked if Apple did not already have Macs running on PWRficient chips at Cupertino. If they DIDN'T, that would be a story all by itself.
I'm inclined to think your take is a pretty accurate indication of what Apple is doing; gearing for an eventual move to their own chips. .
That just sent a shiver down my spine, I can't help but think of the whole SGI/MIPS debacle. Though really it wasn't a debacle until intel entered the picture.
Although it seems unlikely, PA Semi IP may be used to develop next-gen iPads or whatever else Steve has up his sleeve.
Absolutely.
That doesn't mean it'd be PWRficient either - they have enough ARM expertise, apparently.
In fact, everything Steve said could be said while simultaneously demonstrating a next-gen iPad (or whatever). Look at this:
Jobs loves Intel...
"We have a great partnership with Intel,” he said. “We expect that to continue forever."
... there's absolutely no plans to ressurect a PowerPC-based Mac offering.
"I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over that,” he said. “We’re very happy with Intel."
All could be said while releasing anything slightly smaller than a MBA.
edit: Actually, trying to read into what Steve didn't say (as he is often quite precise in his choice of words)...
The paraphrase didn't say "there's absolutely no plans to resurrect a PowerPC-based offering"
the paraphrase said "there's absolutely no plans to resurrect a PowerPC-based Mac offering".
... I wonder what Steve himself said.
(remember though that eeTimes says that PA Semi is getting rid of the PWR chip entirely!)
Intel make no bones about it. They see Moorestown and subsequent Atom cpus as viable for the iPhone. This certainly makes it appear that Apple don't see it that way. The fact that Apple have bought expertise in cpu design make it appear that they have no intention in adopting Atom for the iPhone/iTouch.
Yeah it does doesn't it. At least at this surface level, and I don't know enough about PA-semi to know what it is that's worth so much to Apple.
It could really be that $300million is small change for Apple to get some great designers to push future iPod/iPhone design in amazing directions - quite independent of whether it's Intel or Arm (or PWR)... and simply planning for the future.
Or Apple could be hedging their bets.
I would be shocked if Apple did not already have Macs running on PWRficient chips at Cupertino. If they DIDN'T, that would be a story all by itself.
I'm inclined to think your take is a pretty accurate indication of what Apple is doing; gearing for an eventual move to their own chips. Any questions about "how will they do this" are irrelevant since we don't know what Apple's plans for those chips might be. For all we know, Apple might get PA Semi design a chip that operates in ways we have no frame of reference for at this time.
I'm missing something here. Mac sales BOOMED partially as a result of moving to intel, or moreover their ability to run Windows OS. That ability is a key feature for switchers, and Apple would be throwing that away if they were to move to their own chips.
I've used Macs for as long as I can remember, and the move to intel was a great day for me; I would be pissed if apple were to move to their own chips. As a developer, the ability to run multiple OS's (I have Windows XP Pro SP2 and Ubuntu Client 64-bit installed) allows me to use a Mac as my work computer. I'd hate to see that feature go.