It's about bloody time, but I'm not holding my breath yet.
The "unlimited" data rates Rogers introduced earlier this year are limited in every possible way, from which handsets you can use, a select list of WML-only websites you're allowed to visit, and how much data you can transfer. In other words, it's a bald-faced lie, and if anything it made it seem even more hopeless that we'd ever get the iPhone up here. To me, it showed that Canada's wireless companies are going to insist on greed over innovation, and are never going to back down.
If we get a $20/month, truly unlimited data plan and the new 3G iPhone, I will be both shocked and thrilled. But I have learned over many years to always expect to be disappointed with the third-world wireless service* in this country, so I'm not going to get excited until I see the full announcement and all of the fine print.
* Sadly, even calling Canada's wireless service "third-world" is more than it deserves, given that the wireless service in actual third-world countries is drastically better and more reasonably priced.
How easy is it for a company like Telus to switch from CDMA to GSM? Don't they have to install all new hardware everywhere in their coverage area to carry the signal? It's not like it's a software upgrade is it?
yea its ridiculous, after admin fees and taxes and everything i pay 43 dollars a month for the lowest airtime plan with unlimited messaging (thats no data transfer at all)
it must be expensive to build cell towers admist all the snow and igloos ...
Fido used to be great. Crappy coverage, but great network, pricing, handsets and customer service.
If that was ever true, it certainly is not now. Fido is one of the worst companies I have ever had to deal with in my entire life. They are extremely rude, unprofessional, and incompetent, and it's a major pain in the ass everytime I have to talk to them about anything. I never thought I could hate a company more than I hate Telus, but Fido has proven it's possible to suck even more, which is frankly just astonishing.
I am SHOCKED that the iPhone launch is actually happening. Most commentators have missed one of the key points in the reasoning behind the delay.
EGO.
Here in Toronto (and Ontario for that matter), Rogers has a virtual monopoly on much of the telecommunications sector. The residential internet service is the fastest available and highly subscribed (I am a subscriber). They are the major player for non-satellite based TV (also a subscriber). And their cell phone network is the largest as well (not a subscriber).
Rogers is huge, flush with cash and keeps its competition at bay. What Rogers resented is being told that they could not brand the iPhone. All of Rogers' wireless handsets have the Rogers logo on the front and on the start-up screen. I am certain that when Apple told them they would not be able to do this with the iPhone, Rogers told them (politely) to p**s off. Rogers is interested in promoting THEIR brand - not Apple's.
The rate plan is also a mystery. Because there is no competition for cell phone service, there is no motivation to reduce the monthly charges (Canada has only three wireless carriers - Rogers the only to carry GSM). While Rogers may be lowering the cost, we'll never see U.S. prices. Ever.
I think the tipping point was likely a document that came across the desk of the company's owner (Ted Rogers) that detailed how much money he was loosing due to the number of unlocked iPhones in service (yes, they CAN tell what model of phone is using their network - don't be naive enough to think they can't). The numbers were crunched and volia: today's announcement.
One last thing. An auction was announced by the government for additional wireless spectrum in Canada. This is UNLIKELY to yield any new players in the wireless field.
Why? Any new entrant would have to build their own cell-phone towers, HUGE $$$$$. And all the good real estate to build on has been taken by the existing companies.
Simply check out the JD Powers wireless surveys, or the ones that Consumer Reports does every year. ATT never seems to do well. If it wasn't for Sprint's current huge issues, they'd likely come in dead last instead of the their customary 'almost last'. \
I do remember some ATT fans getting excited when ATT came in as "average" in a JD Power customer service survey not long ago, though. And in some parts of the country, like the Northeast, their network rates pretty well sometimes. Unfortunately, that's not where I live..
Since nobody can't show me otherwise, I guess I'll just rely on the evidence I find myself.
I have it on good authority that Rogers iPhone plan will look something like this.
16g iPhone - $67,000 - includes 1 month unlimited data plan.
32g iPhone - $122,000 - includes 1 month unlimited data plan.
100 daytime minutes, evenings and weekends, 5 megs of download - $8,500/ month
500 daytime minutes, evenings and weekends, 50 megs of download - $34,000/ month
Oh, and Rogers has a contract with Apple to disable the Wifi, disabled the email function, disabled the video capability, disabled Safari, and disabled the iPod functions.
And most importantly, this comes straight from Rogers head office...
"While we are excited to bring the iPhone to Canada, we feel it's in the best interest of our clients if iPhone's are not capable of connecting to computers. So we have decided to solder all connectivity ports shut. We feel this is what our clients demand and expect from Rogers."
Anyone from Western Canada will know i'm not far off here at all. When the Razor came out, Rogers nerfed all the features on it, and took away all connectivity possibilities. Their current data plan costs about $2.50 a meg. That on top of $60 - $70/month for 100 minutes.
I was hoping that the iPhone would come to Canada and not Rogers. Now we get to see the iPhone in all it's glorious nerfed and crippled glory.
Here in Toronto (and Ontario for that matter), Rogers has a virtual monopoly on much of the telecommunications sector. The residential internet service is the fastest available…
Actually, Aurora Cable Internet is, "…one of the fastest residential Internet Services in the world. At 9 Megabits download speed, Aurora Cable Internet is most often rated the fastest on the international Broadband website…"
i frankly would crack a smile if the entire rogers family died a brutal death. they have been ripping people off for years. i EXTREMELY hope Apple makes them change their ways.
Honestly, if its too hard for you to go to JD Power's website, or pick up an issue of Consumer Reports, you must not want to know very much. I'm not linking to the info simply because I'm on cellphone forums a lot and have given out the links umpteen times.
I hope not as I'll be relocating to that general area for an undetermined amount of time.
SF Bay Area, I assume? It's a nice place to live, 'cept for the horrific traffic.
Don't know what to tell ya about ATT there... it's just not good. Not too many dropped calls, though you will definitely get them, but lots of garbled ones. Awful if you do any business over your cell.
Honestly, Verizon's by far the best there. T-Mobile's decent. MetroPCS isn't very good. Sprint used to be okay, not sure what they are now there, but I doubt they've improved much.
SF Bay Area, I assume? It's a nice place to live, 'cept for the horrific traffic.
Don't know what to tell ya about ATT there... it's just not good. Not too many dropped calls, though you will definitely get them, but lots of garbled ones. Awful if you do any business over your cell.
Honestly, Verizon's by far the best there. T-Mobile's decent. MetroPCS isn't very good. Sprint used to be okay, not sure what they are now there, but I doubt they've improved much.
The whole west coast, San Diego to Vancouver, but I've got family around SF so I'll probably make that near my base of operations while I'm out there.
You just showed your age and that your injection into this debate is purely hypothetical and of very little value.
Maybe I don't have an iPhone in part because if its tie-in?
Personally, I get the impression that you're not really interested in the discussion other than to try to snipe me. Did I offend you in some other thread?
I'm not sure if the suits in marketing at Rogers, or the analysts who stare at their spreadsheets looking at pricing strategies but don't EVER talk to a customer realize the following:
Many of the early adapters for the iPhone in Canada who might pay a premium for a hot phone have already done so. After 10 months I got tired of waiting and purchased it unlocked.
So, they now have to price it for the masses. I don't think Rogers or any company wants to offer a phone that very few people will buy or plans that will deter people from signing on. The iPhone at its price point and features is not a must have for most people. So, if Rogers wants to sell a ton of them and also have a ton of those customers using bandwidth, then they have to price it sensibly. Also, at this point, the iPhone is still mostly a consumer device, so most people will be paying the bill themselves and not their employer. They will be less likely to sign up for high rates if they are footing the costs.
This is assuming that the suits at Rogers use logic. However, I fear that what will really happen is that they will listen to those analysts who just look at spreadsheets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Maybe I don't have an iPhone in part because if its tie-in?
Personally, I get the impression that you're not really interested in the discussion other than to try to snipe me. Did I offend you in some other thread?
Comments
The "unlimited" data rates Rogers introduced earlier this year are limited in every possible way, from which handsets you can use, a select list of WML-only websites you're allowed to visit, and how much data you can transfer. In other words, it's a bald-faced lie, and if anything it made it seem even more hopeless that we'd ever get the iPhone up here. To me, it showed that Canada's wireless companies are going to insist on greed over innovation, and are never going to back down.
If we get a $20/month, truly unlimited data plan and the new 3G iPhone, I will be both shocked and thrilled. But I have learned over many years to always expect to be disappointed with the third-world wireless service* in this country, so I'm not going to get excited until I see the full announcement and all of the fine print.
* Sadly, even calling Canada's wireless service "third-world" is more than it deserves, given that the wireless service in actual third-world countries is drastically better and more reasonably priced.
it must be expensive to build cell towers admist all the snow and igloos ...
Fido used to be great. Crappy coverage, but great network, pricing, handsets and customer service.
If that was ever true, it certainly is not now. Fido is one of the worst companies I have ever had to deal with in my entire life. They are extremely rude, unprofessional, and incompetent, and it's a major pain in the ass everytime I have to talk to them about anything. I never thought I could hate a company more than I hate Telus, but Fido has proven it's possible to suck even more, which is frankly just astonishing.
EGO.
Here in Toronto (and Ontario for that matter), Rogers has a virtual monopoly on much of the telecommunications sector. The residential internet service is the fastest available and highly subscribed (I am a subscriber). They are the major player for non-satellite based TV (also a subscriber). And their cell phone network is the largest as well (not a subscriber).
Rogers is huge, flush with cash and keeps its competition at bay. What Rogers resented is being told that they could not brand the iPhone. All of Rogers' wireless handsets have the Rogers logo on the front and on the start-up screen. I am certain that when Apple told them they would not be able to do this with the iPhone, Rogers told them (politely) to p**s off. Rogers is interested in promoting THEIR brand - not Apple's.
The rate plan is also a mystery. Because there is no competition for cell phone service, there is no motivation to reduce the monthly charges (Canada has only three wireless carriers - Rogers the only to carry GSM). While Rogers may be lowering the cost, we'll never see U.S. prices. Ever.
I think the tipping point was likely a document that came across the desk of the company's owner (Ted Rogers) that detailed how much money he was loosing due to the number of unlocked iPhones in service (yes, they CAN tell what model of phone is using their network - don't be naive enough to think they can't). The numbers were crunched and volia: today's announcement.
One last thing. An auction was announced by the government for additional wireless spectrum in Canada. This is UNLIKELY to yield any new players in the wireless field.
Why? Any new entrant would have to build their own cell-phone towers, HUGE $$$$$. And all the good real estate to build on has been taken by the existing companies.
Living in Saskatchewan, this isn't all that exciting.
Rogers has virtually no coverage, except in the 3 major centres, and even still in places at the University friends with Rogers get no service.
I guess I'll have to wait until I move
Here are all the cell towers in Canada. May help you in deciding where to relocate.
http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/cancellsites.html
Simply check out the JD Powers wireless surveys, or the ones that Consumer Reports does every year. ATT never seems to do well. If it wasn't for Sprint's current huge issues, they'd likely come in dead last instead of the their customary 'almost last'.
I do remember some ATT fans getting excited when ATT came in as "average" in a JD Power customer service survey not long ago, though. And in some parts of the country, like the Northeast, their network rates pretty well sometimes. Unfortunately, that's not where I live..
Since nobody can't show me otherwise, I guess I'll just rely on the evidence I find myself.
http://cell-phone-providers-review.toptenreviews.com/
"We're thrilled to announce that we have a deal with Apple to bring the iPhone to Canada later this year," the carrier said in a statement.
A good start, but as others have said, it still remains to be seen if Rogers will have some reasonable data rates to go with the iPhone.
16g iPhone - $67,000 - includes 1 month unlimited data plan.
32g iPhone - $122,000 - includes 1 month unlimited data plan.
100 daytime minutes, evenings and weekends, 5 megs of download - $8,500/ month
500 daytime minutes, evenings and weekends, 50 megs of download - $34,000/ month
Oh, and Rogers has a contract with Apple to disable the Wifi, disabled the email function, disabled the video capability, disabled Safari, and disabled the iPod functions.
And most importantly, this comes straight from Rogers head office...
"While we are excited to bring the iPhone to Canada, we feel it's in the best interest of our clients if iPhone's are not capable of connecting to computers. So we have decided to solder all connectivity ports shut. We feel this is what our clients demand and expect from Rogers."
Anyone from Western Canada will know i'm not far off here at all. When the Razor came out, Rogers nerfed all the features on it, and took away all connectivity possibilities. Their current data plan costs about $2.50 a meg. That on top of $60 - $70/month for 100 minutes.
I was hoping that the iPhone would come to Canada and not Rogers. Now we get to see the iPhone in all it's glorious nerfed and crippled glory.
The iPhone comes with a cost for Rogers: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...l_gam_mostview
Why talk ain't cheap, especially in Canada:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ory/Technology
?The fact we have some of the lowest rates in the world speaks to the incredible competitive nature of our industry here."
Rogers bringing iPhone to Canada:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ory/Technology
Here in Toronto (and Ontario for that matter), Rogers has a virtual monopoly on much of the telecommunications sector. The residential internet service is the fastest available…
Actually, Aurora Cable Internet is, "…one of the fastest residential Internet Services in the world. At 9 Megabits download speed, Aurora Cable Internet is most often rated the fastest on the international Broadband website…"
Now where was that tower location map I posted?
Please let the data rates be reasonable!!!
Huh? Besides, I don't even have an iphone, nor do I use AT&T.
You just showed your age and that your injection into this debate is purely hypothetical and of very little value.
Since nobody can't show me otherwise, I guess I'll just rely on the evidence I find myself.
http://cell-phone-providers-review.toptenreviews.com/
Yeah. No one's ever heard of those guys.
Honestly, if its too hard for you to go to JD Power's website, or pick up an issue of Consumer Reports, you must not want to know very much. I'm not linking to the info simply because I'm on cellphone forums a lot and have given out the links umpteen times.
.
Didn't get the iPhone yet. No 3G, and yeah, ATT just flat sucks in Northern California, where I am.
I hope not as I'll be relocating to that general area for an undetermined amount of time.
I hope not as I'll be relocating to that general area for an undetermined amount of time.
SF Bay Area, I assume? It's a nice place to live, 'cept for the horrific traffic.
Don't know what to tell ya about ATT there... it's just not good. Not too many dropped calls, though you will definitely get them, but lots of garbled ones. Awful if you do any business over your cell.
Honestly, Verizon's by far the best there. T-Mobile's decent. MetroPCS isn't very good. Sprint used to be okay, not sure what they are now there, but I doubt they've improved much.
.
SF Bay Area, I assume? It's a nice place to live, 'cept for the horrific traffic.
Don't know what to tell ya about ATT there... it's just not good. Not too many dropped calls, though you will definitely get them, but lots of garbled ones. Awful if you do any business over your cell.
Honestly, Verizon's by far the best there. T-Mobile's decent. MetroPCS isn't very good. Sprint used to be okay, not sure what they are now there, but I doubt they've improved much.
The whole west coast, San Diego to Vancouver, but I've got family around SF so I'll probably make that near my base of operations while I'm out there.
You just showed your age and that your injection into this debate is purely hypothetical and of very little value.
Maybe I don't have an iPhone in part because if its tie-in?
Personally, I get the impression that you're not really interested in the discussion other than to try to snipe me. Did I offend you in some other thread?
I'm not sure if the suits in marketing at Rogers, or the analysts who stare at their spreadsheets looking at pricing strategies but don't EVER talk to a customer realize the following:
Many of the early adapters for the iPhone in Canada who might pay a premium for a hot phone have already done so. After 10 months I got tired of waiting and purchased it unlocked.
So, they now have to price it for the masses. I don't think Rogers or any company wants to offer a phone that very few people will buy or plans that will deter people from signing on. The iPhone at its price point and features is not a must have for most people. So, if Rogers wants to sell a ton of them and also have a ton of those customers using bandwidth, then they have to price it sensibly. Also, at this point, the iPhone is still mostly a consumer device, so most people will be paying the bill themselves and not their employer. They will be less likely to sign up for high rates if they are footing the costs.
This is assuming that the suits at Rogers use logic. However, I fear that what will really happen is that they will listen to those analysts who just look at spreadsheets.
Maybe I don't have an iPhone in part because if its tie-in?
Personally, I get the impression that you're not really interested in the discussion other than to try to snipe me. Did I offend you in some other thread?