Point #3: The only problem with this plan is that it still leaves a huge gap in the Mac consumer software line: iPublish. For a platform known for graphics, there remains no consumer software to put together a brochure, business card or newsletter. Ideally, Adobe would release a trimmed-down OSX version of Pagemaker for this purpose, but since they refuse to Apple should build a competitor for MS Publisher as part of the new suite.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Is there any particular reason AppleWorks wasn't up to the job? Of course it's not an InDesign replacement, but it's widely used precisely for brochures and newsletters and what-not, blending the WP and illustrator and paint (and spreadsheet, for graphs) frames as necessary. I don't see how a revamped replacement for AW wouldn't continue to offer that capability.
Does something really have to be narrowly and explicitly targeted at publication design in order to be useful in publication design?
ObThirdParty: Stone Design's Create. Deneba's Canvas.
In all seriousness it doesnt't make sense. It would antagonize Microsoft. It would take a good enough app with a large community in some core markets (Appleworks is huge in education) and just toss it away. It would confuse the market because office suites are for pro level products and works packages are for consumer. Would this suite be free on the pro-line and not the consumer line?
Lastly consider that Keynote isn't free nor even bundled with any Mac as far as I know. Would this be another example of Apple taking something that was bundled (Appleworks) and taking it away for something to be charged for?
Sounds all wrong if you ask me, plus I like Appleworks as it is. Just enhance it and modernize it. It still gets the job done better than Word in my opinion.
Oh lastly, Appleworks is....crossplatform. It isn't widely mentioned but Appleworks does exist on Windows. Apple made it to avoid losing marketshare in education with school that had Macs and PC's. iWorks, or whatever they are going to call it likely won't be as Keynote isn't.
You know, I have to say that the website for Creator (mentioned above) isn't the best sales pitch for the product...you have to dig around for some screenshots of the app. Looks like an OS 9 app btw. Might be good, who knows?
i want you to tell it what the source is (book, webpage, newpaper ect.) and it ask u for the information...its impossible to remember, u need to constantly look in a packet for it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
hey, are you an english student, too? so's my wife! she's just finishing the ol' Ph. D. this year, and then moving on to the ranks of full professorship. she uses EndNote 6, though she's not terribly fond of it (mostly because, according to her, it doesn't let you customize how it works, and ONLY works with MS Word), but it does the job.
i want you to tell it what the source is (book, webpage, newpaper ect.) and it ask u for the information...its impossible to remember, u need to constantly look in a packet for it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That would be a killer feature for me. I honestly think that making bibliographies always takes ten times longer than it should... this is the answer. PLEASE!!!
Has there ever been a "Works" package that people liked? ClarisWorks? AppleWorks? Microsoft Works? WordPerfect Works? No. For some reason people like having different programs for discrete functions.
Now the question becomes, is the iWorks suite really made up of Office killer apps or do they lack features that would force people to stay with Microsoft Office?
How much would you pay for it? Keynote is $99. FileMaker is about twice that much. If they could get competitive with the price of the suite, they would make it easier to get established in institutions. For instance, if there is a choice between purchasing $699 PCs with $400 Microsoft Office licenses and $999 Apples with $100 iWorks licenses, then purchase decisions can be made on quailty issues rather than solely price.
If they are going to make an Office killer suite it does still need a few more components. The publishing app mentioned earlier in this thread comes to mind as well as a project manager and flow chart application.
[quote]Has there ever been a "Works" package that people liked? ClarisWorks? AppleWorks? Microsoft Works? WordPerfect Works? No. For some reason people like having different programs for discrete functions.<hr></blockquote>
I liked ClarisWorks a lot. AppleWorks is a downgrade from it, but I still prefer it over Word due to its simplicity. I was going to buy Gobe Productive for Windows. I don't care whether an application suite is one file or several.
<strong>Lastly consider that Keynote isn't free nor even bundled with any Mac as far as I know. Would this be another example of Apple taking something that was bundled (Appleworks) and taking it away for something to be charged for?
Sounds all wrong if you ask me, plus I like Appleworks as it is. Just enhance it and modernize it. It still gets the job done better than Word in my opinion.
Oh lastly, Appleworks is....crossplatform. It isn't widely mentioned but Appleworks does exist on Windows. Apple made it to avoid losing marketshare in education with school that had Macs and PC's. iWorks, or whatever they are going to call it likely won't be as Keynote isn't.
I don't think that is any reason to discount this rumor. Keynote is interoperable with PowerPoint. iWorks will be intercompatible with Mac and PC Office, it *HAS* to be. How is that any issue at all? I don't know any schools that have PCs without Office (rather they have Macs with Office, too), and I know very few schools who have purchased AppleWorks for all of their PCs just becuase Macs come free with AppleWorks... that would be stupid, especially considering that Office walks all over AppleWorks in terms of usefulness and AW is totally outdated.
I don't think that is any reason to discount this rumor. Keynote is interoperable with PowerPoint. iWorks will be intercompatible with Mac and PC Office, it *HAS* to be. How is that any issue at all? I don't know any schools that have PCs without Office (rather they have Macs with Office, too), and I know very few schools who have purchased AppleWorks for all of their PCs just becuase Macs come free with AppleWorks... that would be stupid, especially considering that Office walks all over AppleWorks in terms of usefulness and AW is totally outdated.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I didn't claim that there were thousands of schools that purchased Appleworks for PC. Rather I said it was a solution that allowed Apple to claim compatibility. The Appleworks could be for the teachers who have PC's at home. It doesn't really matter.
Microsoft cannot even make the Mac and PC version of Office completely compatible. Why wouldn't people be skeptical of Apple claims of compatibility.
Lastly consider that Appleworks costs $79 while Office costs $399. Appleworks licensing for crossplatform solutions is $19 per unit that it doesn't already come bundled with. (When ordering for 100+ machines)
Are we honestly to believe that an advantage like this should be tossed away or worse yet that Apple will misguidedly attempt to charge more for a solution that no one is seeking?
Keynote sounds like something they decided to sell because, well when you are the head of the company you can demand that an app be developed for you.
However Excel is a world beater on both platforms. I have heard people that absolutely hate Microsoft praise Excel. It is the world standard for a spreadsheet.
Word has very passionate defenders although I wouldn't feed it to my dog. However there are plenty of other options here. In fact it is likely that Apple kill some of the people and companies trying to develop for the platform because they need a few more pennies in their pocket.
Microsoft offers Office for $199 with initial purchase and Entourage for $99 as a standalone. (Claiming it will offer Outlook compatibility soon)
What would Apple gain besides antagonism? Outlook compatibility might be lost. Microsoft would either raise the price of Office (which makes it more expensive to purchase Mac's at universities and businesses) or leave it at $199 in which case where is the money for all this development?
Apple would need a word processor, spreadsheet, presentation and PIM/email package and also have to toss in Filemaker to boot just to be competitive. It is VERY unlikely they could bundle all of this with a Mac like they do Appleworks.
Office isn't the end all be all but for the folks that do $199 is a good enough price for the amount of software and peace of mind.
Apple is a niche company. They have to pick their niches carefully. Appleworks fits a niche well and there isn't another product that does what it does for $79. Trying to compete with Microsoft head-on at $199 or $399 is just asking for trouble in the worst way. Also it is a mature market segment that isn't growing anymore so why do it?
Apple didn't make a palm device. It is because they couldn't make a better Palm than Palm and even if they could, where was the money. They choose a niche with the iPod and have made out like bandits.
They could do it, but it doesn't help them, and it doesn't make sense.
That would be a killer feature for me. I honestly think that making bibliographies always takes ten times longer than it should... this is the answer. PLEASE!!! </strong><hr></blockquote>
This "Document" app sounds like it has the most credibility to its rumors, and it might be called something this generic to keep the speculation a little off-base. I bet Apple takes on Word the way Apple can do best: more graphics-oriented, small-time DTP for brochures and so forth, probably with some html web page creation, albeit limited. While I would expect the usual bag of tricks for a word processor, it might not have more advanced citation features, and the layout more akin to something like Keynote including text blocks, guides, etc.
Filemaker Inc., and Apple's Software Division are separate legal entities. There should be no assumption that Filemaker will be incorporated at this point. Sidebar: Back when it was Claris Works, Filemaker/Claris was part of Apple. Times have changed.
I hope that Apple looks to open source versions of database apps for the iWorks database, as they have with Darwin, Safari, etc.
I don't think it's a matter of whether Filemaker will be used or not - of course it will. Apple owns Filemaker and won't spend valuable development dollars re-inventing the wheel.
The question is whether Filemaker will be part of 'iWorks', as the updated AppleWorks is being called. The answer, I believe, is no.
I think it's entirely possible that Apple will offer two distinct product sets in this space (remember, "there's a lot of software coming...") Apple (and the rest of the industry) breaks products into two sets, consumer and pro.
Thus we have:
iDVD and DVD Studio Pro
iMovie and Final Cut Pro
iPhoto and Photoshop
In the productivity dep't, we've had AppleWorks and MS Office.
The question is whether Apple is simply rewriting AppleWorks into a decent app, or going whole hog for BOTH segments.
Keynote and the Gobe team acquisition raised eyebrows because it seemed to imply the latter, but Apple has not confirmed this and their "we made it just for Jobs" excuse could be true.
This much is sure: Apple will not create a standalone Word Processor and Spreadsheet, throw in Keynote and Filemaker and bundle the whole shebang with the G5. That's economic suicide.
Most likely, Apple is working on both segments of the market, and will bundle a pared-down 'iWorks' with its systems and encourage users to pony up an extra $199.00 or so for an upgrade to the full suite.
If Apple includes iWorks bundled with Mac OS X v.10.3 we may see an price jump with it. Instead of $129 we may see it as $149. I think that a lot of people would pay for an increased price for OS X if they included OS X, iLife, iWorks, et all with it, but how much would Apple be willing to up the price? $149 is rather cheap if they bundle everything. The only problem is that Keynote is $99. If they were to include iWorks, in a bundle with 10.3 what would the price for iWorks be? $49.99 like iLife or more. I think that it would be more as Keynote is now currently at $99. By this reasoning, we can probably assume that iWorks may not be included as the price for OS X would probably jump too high. But for new Macs, iWorks should defantely be included just like iLife is now.
Apple is said to be completing development on a new home accounting application that will be sold and bundled with other office products.
Whether or not the package will be distributed as "iWorks" is unknown, but both AppleWorks and Keynote will be included at a discounted price.
Said to be tentatively priced at US$250, Apple hopes to gain further independence from Microsoft with the low-cost and feature-packed suite. Other rumored components of the upcoming package include spreadsheet and database applications.
The accounting application's main focus will be to "manage your budget and analyze your spending habits," and will no doubt see tight integration with other Apple solutions.
"Later this year" is the only timeframe mentioned.
Comments
I vote for this one!
<strong>
Point #3: The only problem with this plan is that it still leaves a huge gap in the Mac consumer software line: iPublish. For a platform known for graphics, there remains no consumer software to put together a brochure, business card or newsletter. Ideally, Adobe would release a trimmed-down OSX version of Pagemaker for this purpose, but since they refuse to Apple should build a competitor for MS Publisher as part of the new suite.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Is there any particular reason AppleWorks wasn't up to the job? Of course it's not an InDesign replacement, but it's widely used precisely for brochures and newsletters and what-not, blending the WP and illustrator and paint (and spreadsheet, for graphs) frames as necessary. I don't see how a revamped replacement for AW wouldn't continue to offer that capability.
Does something really have to be narrowly and explicitly targeted at publication design in order to be useful in publication design?
ObThirdParty: Stone Design's Create. Deneba's Canvas.
Its called Creator, costs 99$ and is from a company called Multi Ad.
There are 2 version of the app, one pro and one consumer.
u can download a demo from: <a href="http://www.creatorsoftware.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.creatorsoftware.com/</a>;
Cheers,
calle
In all seriousness it doesnt't make sense. It would antagonize Microsoft. It would take a good enough app with a large community in some core markets (Appleworks is huge in education) and just toss it away. It would confuse the market because office suites are for pro level products and works packages are for consumer. Would this suite be free on the pro-line and not the consumer line?
Lastly consider that Keynote isn't free nor even bundled with any Mac as far as I know. Would this be another example of Apple taking something that was bundled (Appleworks) and taking it away for something to be charged for?
Sounds all wrong if you ask me, plus I like Appleworks as it is. Just enhance it and modernize it. It still gets the job done better than Word in my opinion.
Oh lastly, Appleworks is....crossplatform. It isn't widely mentioned but Appleworks does exist on Windows. Apple made it to avoid losing marketshare in education with school that had Macs and PC's. iWorks, or whatever they are going to call it likely won't be as Keynote isn't.
Nick
[ 03-16-2003: Message edited by: trumptman ]</p>
I like the idea of a consumer database app.
Like it.
.
[ 03-16-2003: Message edited by: drewprops ]</p>
<strong>what i want...
automatic MLA formating for bibliographies!
i want you to tell it what the source is (book, webpage, newpaper ect.) and it ask u for the information...its impossible to remember, u need to constantly look in a packet for it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
hey, are you an english student, too? so's my wife! she's just finishing the ol' Ph. D. this year, and then moving on to the ranks of full professorship. she uses EndNote 6, though she's not terribly fond of it (mostly because, according to her, it doesn't let you customize how it works, and ONLY works with MS Word), but it does the job.
anyway, thought you'd like to know.
<strong>what i want...
automatic MLA formating for bibliographies!
i want you to tell it what the source is (book, webpage, newpaper ect.) and it ask u for the information...its impossible to remember, u need to constantly look in a packet for it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That would be a killer feature for me. I honestly think that making bibliographies always takes ten times longer than it should... this is the answer. PLEASE!!!
Now the question becomes, is the iWorks suite really made up of Office killer apps or do they lack features that would force people to stay with Microsoft Office?
How much would you pay for it? Keynote is $99. FileMaker is about twice that much. If they could get competitive with the price of the suite, they would make it easier to get established in institutions. For instance, if there is a choice between purchasing $699 PCs with $400 Microsoft Office licenses and $999 Apples with $100 iWorks licenses, then purchase decisions can be made on quailty issues rather than solely price.
If they are going to make an Office killer suite it does still need a few more components. The publishing app mentioned earlier in this thread comes to mind as well as a project manager and flow chart application.
I liked ClarisWorks a lot. AppleWorks is a downgrade from it, but I still prefer it over Word due to its simplicity. I was going to buy Gobe Productive for Windows. I don't care whether an application suite is one file or several.
<strong>Lastly consider that Keynote isn't free nor even bundled with any Mac as far as I know. Would this be another example of Apple taking something that was bundled (Appleworks) and taking it away for something to be charged for?
Sounds all wrong if you ask me, plus I like Appleworks as it is. Just enhance it and modernize it. It still gets the job done better than Word in my opinion.
Oh lastly, Appleworks is....crossplatform. It isn't widely mentioned but Appleworks does exist on Windows. Apple made it to avoid losing marketshare in education with school that had Macs and PC's. iWorks, or whatever they are going to call it likely won't be as Keynote isn't.
Nick
[ 03-16-2003: Message edited by: trumptman ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think that is any reason to discount this rumor. Keynote is interoperable with PowerPoint. iWorks will be intercompatible with Mac and PC Office, it *HAS* to be. How is that any issue at all? I don't know any schools that have PCs without Office (rather they have Macs with Office, too), and I know very few schools who have purchased AppleWorks for all of their PCs just becuase Macs come free with AppleWorks... that would be stupid, especially considering that Office walks all over AppleWorks in terms of usefulness and AW is totally outdated.
<strong>
I don't think that is any reason to discount this rumor. Keynote is interoperable with PowerPoint. iWorks will be intercompatible with Mac and PC Office, it *HAS* to be. How is that any issue at all? I don't know any schools that have PCs without Office (rather they have Macs with Office, too), and I know very few schools who have purchased AppleWorks for all of their PCs just becuase Macs come free with AppleWorks... that would be stupid, especially considering that Office walks all over AppleWorks in terms of usefulness and AW is totally outdated.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I didn't claim that there were thousands of schools that purchased Appleworks for PC. Rather I said it was a solution that allowed Apple to claim compatibility. The Appleworks could be for the teachers who have PC's at home. It doesn't really matter.
Microsoft cannot even make the Mac and PC version of Office completely compatible. Why wouldn't people be skeptical of Apple claims of compatibility.
Lastly consider that Appleworks costs $79 while Office costs $399. Appleworks licensing for crossplatform solutions is $19 per unit that it doesn't already come bundled with. (When ordering for 100+ machines)
Are we honestly to believe that an advantage like this should be tossed away or worse yet that Apple will misguidedly attempt to charge more for a solution that no one is seeking?
Keynote sounds like something they decided to sell because, well when you are the head of the company you can demand that an app be developed for you.
However Excel is a world beater on both platforms. I have heard people that absolutely hate Microsoft praise Excel. It is the world standard for a spreadsheet.
Word has very passionate defenders although I wouldn't feed it to my dog. However there are plenty of other options here. In fact it is likely that Apple kill some of the people and companies trying to develop for the platform because they need a few more pennies in their pocket.
Microsoft offers Office for $199 with initial purchase and Entourage for $99 as a standalone. (Claiming it will offer Outlook compatibility soon)
What would Apple gain besides antagonism? Outlook compatibility might be lost. Microsoft would either raise the price of Office (which makes it more expensive to purchase Mac's at universities and businesses) or leave it at $199 in which case where is the money for all this development?
Apple would need a word processor, spreadsheet, presentation and PIM/email package and also have to toss in Filemaker to boot just to be competitive. It is VERY unlikely they could bundle all of this with a Mac like they do Appleworks.
Office isn't the end all be all but for the folks that do $199 is a good enough price for the amount of software and peace of mind.
Apple is a niche company. They have to pick their niches carefully. Appleworks fits a niche well and there isn't another product that does what it does for $79. Trying to compete with Microsoft head-on at $199 or $399 is just asking for trouble in the worst way. Also it is a mature market segment that isn't growing anymore so why do it?
Apple didn't make a palm device. It is because they couldn't make a better Palm than Palm and even if they could, where was the money. They choose a niche with the iPod and have made out like bandits.
They could do it, but it doesn't help them, and it doesn't make sense.
Nick
<strong>
That would be a killer feature for me. I honestly think that making bibliographies always takes ten times longer than it should... this is the answer. PLEASE!!!
BibTeX is the answer.
But it would be different if iWorks come free with 10.3 <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
I hope that Apple looks to open source versions of database apps for the iWorks database, as they have with Darwin, Safari, etc.
The question is whether Filemaker will be part of 'iWorks', as the updated AppleWorks is being called. The answer, I believe, is no.
I think it's entirely possible that Apple will offer two distinct product sets in this space (remember, "there's a lot of software coming...") Apple (and the rest of the industry) breaks products into two sets, consumer and pro.
Thus we have:
iDVD and DVD Studio Pro
iMovie and Final Cut Pro
iPhoto and Photoshop
In the productivity dep't, we've had AppleWorks and MS Office.
The question is whether Apple is simply rewriting AppleWorks into a decent app, or going whole hog for BOTH segments.
Keynote and the Gobe team acquisition raised eyebrows because it seemed to imply the latter, but Apple has not confirmed this and their "we made it just for Jobs" excuse could be true.
This much is sure: Apple will not create a standalone Word Processor and Spreadsheet, throw in Keynote and Filemaker and bundle the whole shebang with the G5. That's economic suicide.
Most likely, Apple is working on both segments of the market, and will bundle a pared-down 'iWorks' with its systems and encourage users to pony up an extra $199.00 or so for an upgrade to the full suite.
New accounting application under development
Apple is said to be completing development on a new home accounting application that will be sold and bundled with other office products.
Whether or not the package will be distributed as "iWorks" is unknown, but both AppleWorks and Keynote will be included at a discounted price.
Said to be tentatively priced at US$250, Apple hopes to gain further independence from Microsoft with the low-cost and feature-packed suite. Other rumored components of the upcoming package include spreadsheet and database applications.
The accounting application's main focus will be to "manage your budget and analyze your spending habits," and will no doubt see tight integration with other Apple solutions.
"Later this year" is the only timeframe mentioned.
Yeah. We'll just have to wait and see.
That's not going against Microsoft but rather Intuit. I think Spymac laid an egg with this one.