Unfortunately, right now we are a bad period, monitorwise. LCD is a compromise. I just can't wait until we can get OLEDs.
I've seen the Sony OLED Tv, and it is amazing, and I don't say that often.
Unfortunately, there's problems with OLED, too. The biggest one is ageing, they do so relatively rapidly, and the three primary colours don't age at the same rate.
I feel that LED backlit LCD is the best solution, with "local dimming", whereby the LED backlight is quite fine-grained (e.g. one per square of 4, 9 or 16 screen pixels) and whose brightness can be controlled on an individual LED level.
Unfortunately, there's problems with OLED, too. The biggest one is ageing, they do so relatively rapidly, and the three primary colours don't age at the same rate.
You may be right. But at this point I think I would take amazing for a short(er) period of time rather than average for a long(er) period of time.
Perhaps LED backlighting on an iMac would be different but the LED backlit displays on MBPs aren't that much better than the old conventional LCD displays IMO.
Unfortunately, there's problems with OLED, too. The biggest one is ageing, they do so relatively rapidly, and the three primary colours don't age at the same rate.
I feel that LED backlit LCD is the best solution, with "local dimming", whereby the LED backlight is quite fine-grained (e.g. one per square of 4, 9 or 16 screen pixels) and whose brightness can be controlled on an individual LED level.
Aging isn't really a problem.
there are two kinds of OLED panels.
The rigid panels have no aging problems. for example, the Sony 11" Tv is rated at 30,000 hours. That's about normal for present panels.
The second type is the bendable panel. that has aging problems. Most of those panels won't last more than 10,000 hours right now.
It has to do with moisture proofing. The rigid panels can be moisture proofed without a problem, but due to the materials used for the bendable panels, they haven't found a way to prevent moisture inflitration through the materials.
But there seems to have been a breakthrough in that regard. I hope the new material can be utilized for this before too long.
So it's kind of negligible unless I get the Extreme model?
thanks for your help
regards,
Charles
From some posts I have read, people should care less about 2.8 vs. 3.06, and care more about ATI vs. nVidia. Apparently, ATI graphics handle the OS X GUI and applications that use Core Image better than nVidia graphics, but the nVidia graphics are better when it comes to gaming.
From some posts I have read, people should care less about 2.8 vs. 3.06, and care more about ATI vs. nVidia. Apparently, ATI graphics handle the OS X GUI and applications that use Core Image better than nVidia graphics, but the nVidia graphics are better when it comes to gaming.
Some posts here or elsewhere, any links?
I'm not questioning you, am quite interested. The graphics war between these two intrigues me but as a non-gamer nor heavy image user I've never really looked into it that much
Sweet - my 3.0 just arrived FedEx. Was supposed to be here on Tuesday - I'm amazed to see it. Won't really get a chance until monday to give it a workout, but of course I'll have to at least set it up
I'm not questioning you, am quite interested. The graphics war between these two intrigues me but as a non-gamer nor heavy image user I've never really looked into it that much
Right now, the 88GS is the fastest gpu for the iMac. That's not in question.
Do you need the extra speed for 2D work?
No.
Do you need it for 3D games and proframs?
Yes.
What you do determines its value to you.
But the 3.06 GHz machine is faster. That may make a difference, and it may not. It also depends.
For 2D work, the difference will be small, but useful.
For 3D games, it would feed the gpu faster, and could account for some of that FPS speedup we see.
Just plugged in and turned it on (didn't even remove the plastic protection yet) - it's dead silent on boot - I can hear my Core Duo mini sitting next to it. Backlighting is uneven - there's a large dark 'smudge' in the middle, and the left side of the screen is definitely brighter than the rest. I think this one is going back I'm going to keep replacing them until I get one with an even backlight - I do web design and a lot of photo stuff so this just won't cut it...
Just plugged in and turned it on (didn't even remove the plastic protection yet) - it's dead silent on boot - I can hear my Core Duo mini sitting next to it. Backlighting is uneven - there's a large dark 'smudge' in the middle, and the left side of the screen is definitely brighter than the rest. I think this one is going back I'm going to keep replacing them until I get one with an even backlight - I do web design and a lot of photo stuff so this just won't cut it...
You might at least remove the protective cover, then reset the desktop screen, before you declare it a disaster and return it.
You might at least remove the protective cover, then reset the desktop screen, before you declare it a disaster and return it.
Cover is off - it's obviously the backlight that's the problem. I imagine a lot of people wouldn't even notice but for photo work it's a no-go, so it's not exactly a disaster.
Cover is off - it's obviously the backlight that's the problem. I imagine a lot of people wouldn't even notice but for photo work it's a no-go, so it's not exactly a disaster.
back at ya.
Now, that's better, at least you gave it a fair shot. I've been complaining about the display since last August, because I too do photo work. Anyway, I was just hoping that Apple decided to use better displays for the new models, instead of that last august disaster. It will no doubt work for most folks, but not for high end graphics, and/or photography, so, for those folks doing that work it IS a disaster.
If you live near an Apple Store, you might exchange it there, and check the replacement out before you leave the store.
I know that this is a major PITA, and Apple is acting like it's a non-issue. Good luck, and be sure to keep us up to date.
I live right next door to nowhere (not even an Apple store in the state ), so I've got an RMA number and free FedEx pickup. They are sending a replacement and I'm going to use this until it arrives. Support was good - I actually spoke with 2 applecare people (got cut off with the first one). Neither one really understood what I meant when I said the backlight was uneven, but they asked and I was then escalated. I said I wanted a replacement and that was that - very good service.
The screen itself would actually be pretty nice if the backlight was even. I'm not really minding the glossy screen too much, but I haven't really done much with it. I do have to say though, last evening I was using it and even with no windows behind me, some sun was coming in the room and landing on me. My reflection in the screen was enough that I couldn't see what I was working on (I was editing a photo). I'm definitely keeping a second monitor attached, and it's definitely not a glossy one
I live right next door to nowhere (not even an Apple store in the state ), so I've got an RMA number and free FedEx pickup. They are sending a replacement and I'm going to use this until it arrives. Support was good - I actually spoke with 2 applecare people (got cut off with the first one). Neither one really understood what I meant when I said the backlight was uneven, but they asked and I was then escalated. I said I wanted a replacement and that was that - very good service.
The screen itself would actually be pretty nice if the backlight was even. I'm not really minding the glossy screen too much, but I haven't really done much with it. I do have to say though, last evening I was using it and even with no windows behind me, some sun was coming in the room and landing on me. My reflection in the screen was enough that I couldn't see what I was working on (I was editing a photo). I'm definitely keeping a second monitor attached, and it's definitely not a glossy one
Now all we need is to start a lottery concerning how many replacements it will take to get a good one. \
Looks like the 24-inch models are being offered with the same defective displays as the ones before the speed refresh.
I think it is safe to say that the 20-inch models will also have the same displays with the washed-out colors and uneven brightness. Has anyone seen it for themselves?
Having worked with iBook for the past 3 years with much patience, I was ready to run and grab a 20-inch 2.66gHz iMac, but was kindly reminded of the huge controversy surrounding the defective screens. While I am not a professional graphic artist, I am very sensitive to colors and I know that those small things will bother me a lot.
If only Apple listened to its consumers and replaced those screens (with an option for non-glossy screen - I can only hope) than the 20-inch 2.66gHz iMac would have been a perfect machine for me.
Looks like the 24-inch models are being offered with the same defective displays as the ones before the speed refresh.
I think it is safe to say that the 20-inch models will also have the same displays with the washed-out colors and uneven brightness. Has anyone seen it for themselves?
Having worked with iBook for the past 3 years with much patience, I was ready to run and grab a 20-inch 2.66gHz iMac, but was kindly reminded of the huge controversy surrounding the defective screens. While I am not a professional graphic artist, I am very sensitive to colors and I know that those small things will bother me a lot.
If only Apple listened to its consumers and replaced those screens (with an option for non-glossy screen - I can only hope) than the 20-inch 2.66gHz iMac would have been a perfect machine for me.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh. it's not a matter of glossy, or non-glossy screens. It's a mater of uneven backlighting across the screen, glossy screen, or not, does not effect that.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh. it's not a matter of glossy, or non-glossy screens. It's a mater of uneven backlighting across the screen, glossy screen, or not, does not effect that.
Perhaps if you had read my post, then you'd have realized that I recognize the uneven backlights as a separate problem to the glossy screen, not related.
Apple's display, has had a number of problems including uneven backlighting, dead pixels, washed-out colors, as well as a cheap gloss without any anti-glare coating or an option to at least drop the gloss for the end-users.
I have to say for a "defective" screen, this thing is gorgeous. It makes my old 2001FP look like dirt next to it (nothing like a new monitor to make you realize how dim your old one was!).
Using this machine I doubt anyone would notice the backlight isn't even - I just did a couple Aperture tutorials and I wouldn't actually know if I hadn't checked the screen previously. It is actually really easy on the eyes - it is amazingly bright, but stays nice at dimmer levels. It is crystal clear which is something the glossy screen really highlights.
I'm really happy with my purchase overall - can't wait to actually do some work on it.
Perhaps if you had read my post, then you'd have realized that I recognize the uneven backlights as a separate problem to the glossy screen, not related.
Apple's display, has had a number of problems including uneven backlighting, dead pixels, washed-out colors, as well as a cheap gloss without any anti-glare coating or an option to at least drop the gloss for the end-users.
The only problem is consumers actually "like" the gloss. Hell I have to admit....matte LCDs look like shit to me.
Comments
So has anyone torn the new iMacs apart yet?
Not that I've seen. I'm still waiting to get a full run down of the platform utilized by these Penryns.
Unfortunately, right now we are a bad period, monitorwise. LCD is a compromise. I just can't wait until we can get OLEDs.
I've seen the Sony OLED Tv, and it is amazing, and I don't say that often.
Unfortunately, there's problems with OLED, too. The biggest one is ageing, they do so relatively rapidly, and the three primary colours don't age at the same rate.
I feel that LED backlit LCD is the best solution, with "local dimming", whereby the LED backlight is quite fine-grained (e.g. one per square of 4, 9 or 16 screen pixels) and whose brightness can be controlled on an individual LED level.
Unfortunately, there's problems with OLED, too. The biggest one is ageing, they do so relatively rapidly, and the three primary colours don't age at the same rate.
You may be right. But at this point I think I would take amazing for a short(er) period of time rather than average for a long(er) period of time.
Perhaps LED backlighting on an iMac would be different but the LED backlit displays on MBPs aren't that much better than the old conventional LCD displays IMO.
Unfortunately, there's problems with OLED, too. The biggest one is ageing, they do so relatively rapidly, and the three primary colours don't age at the same rate.
I feel that LED backlit LCD is the best solution, with "local dimming", whereby the LED backlight is quite fine-grained (e.g. one per square of 4, 9 or 16 screen pixels) and whose brightness can be controlled on an individual LED level.
Aging isn't really a problem.
there are two kinds of OLED panels.
The rigid panels have no aging problems. for example, the Sony 11" Tv is rated at 30,000 hours. That's about normal for present panels.
The second type is the bendable panel. that has aging problems. Most of those panels won't last more than 10,000 hours right now.
It has to do with moisture proofing. The rigid panels can be moisture proofed without a problem, but due to the materials used for the bendable panels, they haven't found a way to prevent moisture inflitration through the materials.
But there seems to have been a breakthrough in that regard. I hope the new material can be utilized for this before too long.
So it's kind of negligible unless I get the Extreme model?
thanks for your help
regards,
Charles
From some posts I have read, people should care less about 2.8 vs. 3.06, and care more about ATI vs. nVidia. Apparently, ATI graphics handle the OS X GUI and applications that use Core Image better than nVidia graphics, but the nVidia graphics are better when it comes to gaming.
From some posts I have read, people should care less about 2.8 vs. 3.06, and care more about ATI vs. nVidia. Apparently, ATI graphics handle the OS X GUI and applications that use Core Image better than nVidia graphics, but the nVidia graphics are better when it comes to gaming.
Some posts here or elsewhere, any links?
I'm not questioning you, am quite interested. The graphics war between these two intrigues me but as a non-gamer nor heavy image user I've never really looked into it that much
So has anyone torn the new iMacs apart yet?
I doubt they look any different.
Some posts here or elsewhere, any links?
I'm not questioning you, am quite interested. The graphics war between these two intrigues me but as a non-gamer nor heavy image user I've never really looked into it that much
Right now, the 88GS is the fastest gpu for the iMac. That's not in question.
Do you need the extra speed for 2D work?
No.
Do you need it for 3D games and proframs?
Yes.
What you do determines its value to you.
But the 3.06 GHz machine is faster. That may make a difference, and it may not. It also depends.
For 2D work, the difference will be small, but useful.
For 3D games, it would feed the gpu faster, and could account for some of that FPS speedup we see.
Just plugged in and turned it on (didn't even remove the plastic protection yet) - it's dead silent on boot - I can hear my Core Duo mini sitting next to it. Backlighting is uneven - there's a large dark 'smudge' in the middle, and the left side of the screen is definitely brighter than the rest. I think this one is going back
You might at least remove the protective cover, then reset the desktop screen, before you declare it a disaster and return it.
You might at least remove the protective cover, then reset the desktop screen, before you declare it a disaster and return it.
Cover is off - it's obviously the backlight that's the problem. I imagine a lot of people wouldn't even notice but for photo work it's a no-go, so it's not exactly a disaster.
Cover is off - it's obviously the backlight that's the problem. I imagine a lot of people wouldn't even notice but for photo work it's a no-go, so it's not exactly a disaster.
Now, that's better, at least you gave it a fair shot. I've been complaining about the display since last August, because I too do photo work. Anyway, I was just hoping that Apple decided to use better displays for the new models, instead of that last august disaster. It will no doubt work for most folks, but not for high end graphics, and/or photography, so, for those folks doing that work it IS a disaster.
If you live near an Apple Store, you might exchange it there, and check the replacement out before you leave the store.
I know that this is a major PITA, and Apple is acting like it's a non-issue. Good luck, and be sure to keep us up to date.
The screen itself would actually be pretty nice if the backlight was even. I'm not really minding the glossy screen too much, but I haven't really done much with it. I do have to say though, last evening I was using it and even with no windows behind me, some sun was coming in the room and landing on me. My reflection in the screen was enough that I couldn't see what I was working on (I was editing a photo). I'm definitely keeping a second monitor attached, and it's definitely not a glossy one
I live right next door to nowhere (not even an Apple store in the state
The screen itself would actually be pretty nice if the backlight was even. I'm not really minding the glossy screen too much, but I haven't really done much with it. I do have to say though, last evening I was using it and even with no windows behind me, some sun was coming in the room and landing on me. My reflection in the screen was enough that I couldn't see what I was working on (I was editing a photo). I'm definitely keeping a second monitor attached, and it's definitely not a glossy one
Now all we need is to start a lottery concerning how many replacements it will take to get a good one.
I think it is safe to say that the 20-inch models will also have the same displays with the washed-out colors and uneven brightness. Has anyone seen it for themselves?
Having worked with iBook for the past 3 years with much patience, I was ready to run and grab a 20-inch 2.66gHz iMac, but was kindly reminded of the huge controversy surrounding the defective screens. While I am not a professional graphic artist, I am very sensitive to colors and I know that those small things will bother me a lot.
If only Apple listened to its consumers and replaced those screens (with an option for non-glossy screen - I can only hope) than the 20-inch 2.66gHz iMac would have been a perfect machine for me.
Looks like the 24-inch models are being offered with the same defective displays as the ones before the speed refresh.
I think it is safe to say that the 20-inch models will also have the same displays with the washed-out colors and uneven brightness. Has anyone seen it for themselves?
Having worked with iBook for the past 3 years with much patience, I was ready to run and grab a 20-inch 2.66gHz iMac, but was kindly reminded of the huge controversy surrounding the defective screens. While I am not a professional graphic artist, I am very sensitive to colors and I know that those small things will bother me a lot.
If only Apple listened to its consumers and replaced those screens (with an option for non-glossy screen - I can only hope) than the 20-inch 2.66gHz iMac would have been a perfect machine for me.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh. it's not a matter of glossy, or non-glossy screens. It's a mater of uneven backlighting across the screen, glossy screen, or not, does not effect that.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh. it's not a matter of glossy, or non-glossy screens. It's a mater of uneven backlighting across the screen, glossy screen, or not, does not effect that.
Perhaps if you had read my post, then you'd have realized that I recognize the uneven backlights as a separate problem to the glossy screen, not related.
Apple's display, has had a number of problems including uneven backlighting, dead pixels, washed-out colors, as well as a cheap gloss without any anti-glare coating or an option to at least drop the gloss for the end-users.
Using this machine I doubt anyone would notice the backlight isn't even - I just did a couple Aperture tutorials and I wouldn't actually know if I hadn't checked the screen previously. It is actually really easy on the eyes - it is amazingly bright, but stays nice at dimmer levels. It is crystal clear which is something the glossy screen really highlights.
I'm really happy with my purchase overall - can't wait to actually do some work on it.
Perhaps if you had read my post, then you'd have realized that I recognize the uneven backlights as a separate problem to the glossy screen, not related.
Apple's display, has had a number of problems including uneven backlighting, dead pixels, washed-out colors, as well as a cheap gloss without any anti-glare coating or an option to at least drop the gloss for the end-users.
The only problem is consumers actually "like" the gloss. Hell I have to admit....matte LCDs look like shit to me.