Flash Wars: Adobe in the History and Future of Flash [Part 1 of 3]

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 70
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HVMediaSolutions View Post


    Actually I did, the company chose not to for what ever reason.



    Flash and Quicktime both need Administrator privileges to be updated. Many times, in corporate environments, they have to call IT to upgrade which is usually a huge PIA.
  • Reply 42 of 70
    mark dodelmark dodel Posts: 61member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dabrace1984 View Post


    I have to respectfully disagree. Flash is a plug-in that pretty much every computer has. Not everyone has QuickTime, RealPlayer, or Windows Media Player. In order to reach the largest audience possible, Flash is the way to go.



    Sigh, If only that were true. Macromedia/Adobe hasn't had a supported Flash plugin for OS/2 for years. Our last version is 7.14 and that was an escaped beta of a wrapper for the win32 version. But the Macromedia win32 Flash license specifically stated that it could only be run on windoze. :-( Macromedia swore they would rectify that, or at least allow the developer of the escaped version to release an updated version, but then it got bought out by Adobe and nothing has been seen since.



    What is so freaking annoying are sites that can't be accessed at all without the latest Flash. What kind of an idiot develops a site that locks out anybody but those who have the latest version of a stupid plugin?



    Hopefully they do release it as an open source project. Then eComStation users (the latest version of OS/2) can finally get an up-to-date Flash plugin.



    Mark
  • Reply 43 of 70
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mark Dodel View Post


    Sigh, If only that were true. Macromedia/Adobe hasn't had a supported Flash plugin for OS/2 for years.



    Hasn't it been 6 years since OS/2 was officially updated? I wouldn't be holding your breath, Mark. What aspects of OS/2 do you feel are better than a more modern OS?
  • Reply 44 of 70
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dabrace1984 View Post


    Then I guess those people don't like browsing the Internet.



    Ah, there's the rub.

    MS tried to define the internet as whatever could be displayed by IE.

    I similarly reject the definition of 'the real internet' as the ability to display a proprietary format, i.e. Flash.

    There are standards based formats that do the same or better, as I'm sure will be shown in parts 2/3.
  • Reply 45 of 70
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dontlookleft View Post


    you guys spend your time arguing over the pettiest shit.

    makes me laugh.



    also makes me come back to the comments portion again and again.



    Addicting, ain't it?
  • Reply 46 of 70
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Noodleguy View Post


    Actually, it is 'pretty much everyone'.



    http://www.adobe.com/products/player...netration.html



    I don't understand why people get so mad about Flash. Javascript opens pop ups .. GIFs can animate. If you don't like Flash .. uninstall the player in your browser and see how much you enjoy the interweb.



    Flash is good because it is lightweight, widely supported, doesn't break in certain browsers, offers the best video deployment on the web, it's safe for the end user .. the list can go on and on. I think people who don't really know what Flash is are the people that hate it the most. In my opinion, poorly implemented Javascript is way worse than poorly implemented Flash.



    noooodles!



    Well that settles it then. I always turn to the party with a dog in the fight for objective evidence.
  • Reply 47 of 70
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    J Like keeping a private history that isn't cleared when you remove your history or empty your cache?



    Please elaborate... I'm unfamiliar with this and would like more information. (Particularly info on how to force clearing of such a cache.)
  • Reply 48 of 70
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mark Dodel View Post


    Sigh, If only that were true. Macromedia/Adobe hasn't had a supported Flash plugin for OS/2 for years. Our last version is 7.14 and that was an escaped beta of a wrapper for the win32 version. But the Macromedia win32 Flash license specifically stated that it could only be run on windoze. :-( Macromedia swore they would rectify that, or at least allow the developer of the escaped version to release an updated version, but then it got bought out by Adobe and nothing has been seen since.



    What is so freaking annoying are sites that can't be accessed at all without the latest Flash. What kind of an idiot develops a site that locks out anybody but those who have the latest version of a stupid plugin?



    Hopefully they do release it as an open source project. Then eComStation users (the latest version of OS/2) can finally get an up-to-date Flash plugin.



    Mark



    Why should Adobe spend any money or resources on an operating system that is apparently less than 0.00 % of the market - at least according to Net Applications which doesn't even track it?



    It is not even worth 15 minutes of an attorney's time to write up a contract to allow eComstation to release a patched version. Flash 7 is good enough for most sites and the ones that require higher versions are built by idiots according to your reasoning, so why would you want to go to a site designed by idiots anyway?
  • Reply 49 of 70
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post


    There's no QT for linux though is there? There is Flash though. Also what about stuff like the Wii, the PS3 etc, you can't "install" QT on them, but they come with Flash because Flash is a "standard" for web browsing.



    No, Flash is not any kind of 'standard' any more than ActiveX was.
  • Reply 50 of 70
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mark Dodel View Post


    Sigh, If only that were true. Macromedia/Adobe hasn't had a supported Flash plugin for OS/2 for years. Our last version is 7.14 and that was an escaped beta of a wrapper for the win32 version. But the Macromedia win32 Flash license specifically stated that it could only be run on windoze. :-( Macromedia swore they would rectify that, or at least allow the developer of the escaped version to release an updated version, but then it got bought out by Adobe and nothing has been seen since.



    What is so freaking annoying are sites that can't be accessed at all without the latest Flash. What kind of an idiot develops a site that locks out anybody but those who have the latest version of a stupid plugin?



    Hopefully they do release it as an open source project. Then eComStation users (the latest version of OS/2) can finally get an up-to-date Flash plugin.



    Mark



    Actually I think the idiots are the ones who buy their PCs from Best Buy and never do maintenance or update anything. Oh.. do I have to do that?



    Flash designers and developers use the latest Flash Player because of it's advances and advantages.



    The true idiots are the ones who buy and use Microsoft products such as IE ( the new Netscape ) and Windows Vista. Actually I feel bad for them. They do not know any better.



    Ed
  • Reply 51 of 70
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    People who criticize Flash almost always ignore the fact that Flash is a totally integrated programming environment with virtually no limitations. Actionscript 3 is sort of like having php built into a graphics animation package. With all that power, of course it is going to be a bit bloated, but the swfs are remarkably small for what they can do.



    Maybe it doesn't belong on an iPhone but I have say that I find it quite useful and will continue to develop with it until something better comes along.



    Exactly the argument made in favor of everyone's favorite Virus vector, VB.

    Your interest as a developer and mine as a consumer do NOT necessarily intersect.
  • Reply 52 of 70
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    You should probably turn off Flash and enjoy what's left of the internet.



    yup... 100% of it.

    Flash <> 'the internet'
  • Reply 53 of 70
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kcdstudios View Post


    Although by that time (especially if Intel can deliver 80 core processors) Flash may not be that big of a memory hog in comparison.







    That's funny.
  • Reply 54 of 70
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    If they actually think just opening it up the FOSS Community who they've mocked with their request for a 64 bit Linux version [not this schroot/chroot 32bit product of today] than they truly are naive.
  • Reply 55 of 70
    mark dodelmark dodel Posts: 61member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Hasn't it been 6 years since OS/2 was officially updated? I wouldn't be holding your breath, Mark. What aspects of OS/2 do you feel are better than a more modern OS?



    Actually IBM stopped updating OS/2 in 2005 and ended all public support at the end of 2006. They still provide contracted support for large customers. However, though core components like the kernel can't be updated, they can be replaced. there is a project to do just that, called Voyager. and in the mean time eComStation is an OEM version that updates a lot of the GUI components, and is providing development support for a few things that other OS users take for granted like OpenOffice.org. and there is a lot of porting of open source projects. In fact prior to pulling the plug IBM provided a lot of support to open source projects like Mozilla and open sourcing the OS/2 version of the JFS filesystem.



    This really isn't the forum for this so I will stop here. You can find out more about eCS at http://www.ecomstation.com



    To answer your question, I have tried Linux and have Mac OSX 10.5 here and have been using Macs for 5-6 years. I can not use any microsoft products due to the ethical lapses of the company and the fact that their products are basically a piece of crap. I use what gets the job done, and for basic things eComStation works well and the way I like to work. For things like video processing the Mac works great. I've yet to find a reason to spend any time on Linux.



    Mark
  • Reply 56 of 70
    nicky gnicky g Posts: 20member
    Kind of surprised the article didn't get into Adobe's adoption of H.264 as the "blessed" codec for Flash 9. This is a HUGE deal when it comes down to delivery of video online, which I think we can all agree is only at its baby stages and will only grow dramatically moving forward. This pretty much makes Adobe and Apple "allies" when it comes to the online video streaming format wars, with WMV (and Real, and On2) taking a major hit. For someone who is producing content, if you wanted to be able to stream using Flash, you would have to buy some encoding software that itself had licensed the On2 VP6 codec. Now, anyone with a Mac or Quicktime Pro can generate "Flash video" for free/much much cheaper. Cool stuff!
  • Reply 57 of 70
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,397member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by w00master View Post


    Just an FYI, Flash is on 99% of all desktop browsers.



    w00master



    But I notice you said "desktop." Safari on iPhone is already #1 in terms of all mobile device browsing in its short life. So one can see that Flash's "ubiquity" referred to in another post is not guaranteed to be eternal, as Apple leads the way in changing the modal mode in which people interact with the cloud.......
  • Reply 58 of 70
    chandanachandana Posts: 8member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HVMediaSolutions View Post


    Actually I think the idiots are the ones who buy their PCs from Best Buy and never do maintenance or update anything. Oh.. do I have to do that?



    Flash designers and developers use the latest Flash Player because of it's advances and advantages.



    The true idiots are the ones who buy and use Microsoft products such as IE ( the new Netscape ) and Windows Vista. Actually I feel bad for them. They do not know any better.



    Ed



    Exactly! many men can't understand some simple obvious things.



    I was a Flash designer and used to love Flash but people should understand it is a love child that nobody took good care of so it grew up in to something unmanageable, in designer as well as developer perspectives.



    And then it made hell on the web for end users that they don't even smart to figure out that what they missed will otherwise zoho, google, iphone (Ajax) things would have come aeons ago. Flash did blocked and halted the development of new web (web 2.0 as some call it) for a prolonged period like MS did with IE until Firefox, Opera clan came in. Then I guess Apple did liberate the web omitting Flash on iPhone. People miss it cos they are forced to like Flash. But Steve Jobs or anyone has used an iPhone, Google Gmail or Google search knows the rich experience they get without Flash.



    YouTube is a different culprit for this Flash miss concept. See, if properly done YouTube can be without Flash too (iPhone)



    Rich Interactivity is not solely Flash, it is a wrong concept. Online games or porn sites are not the best web experience for the same reason.



    You can read more on Flash here Dreamsmademe Bolg on this...
  • Reply 59 of 70
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Javascript and GIFs don't send your CPU utilization to 100%.



    Gifs do in Firefox and with js it depends on the code just like in Flash.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Javascript and GIFs aren't huge memory hogs.



    Dynamic Javascript objects can leak memory.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Javascript and GIFs work perfectly well on slower machines.



    True but Gifs are limited to 256 colors and you have to premultiply the transparency and you can't get half the effects.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    It's horribly inefficient.



    You mean inefficient in the sense that an animated menu in Flash would use up maybe 4k but to do it with scriptaculous requires you to execute a 250k script? See how slow Apple's site loads - there's a reason for that and it isn't Flash.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Maybe QuickTime isn't as ubiquitous but so what - throw up MP4 files and let the user download their own plugin be it QuickTime or something else.



    Last time I checked, mp4 files load as text in my version of Safari. Flash means that videos display as they should with the right interface and controls to everyone.



    Flash is the closest thing we have to truly cross-platform applications short of Java Applets, which are slow and don't always work properly cross-platform.



    As always, don't hate Flash because people use it wrongly - in other words the people who use really irritating ads to slow down browsers so you will notice them. If they could use any other tech to get the same result, they would and you'd hate that just the same.
  • Reply 60 of 70
    I use flashblock in Firefox to prevent flash, as far as I'm concerned it is one of the banes of the interweb, switching off all that inane advertising makes browsing a much nicer experience. Plus those sites that use flash for no reason except to flagellate the ego of the developer/designer, so annoying. I have seen good use of flash but it is extremely rare. And don't get me started on acrobat reader, I deeply hate that product and I can't understand how they can create something that takes up so much memory and cpu to render their own document specification so badly.



    However adobe air is a completely different kettle of giblets. As a web developer the issues I face constantly are all about browser versions and compatibility issues. It's a nightmare. Adobe air provides a consistent and rich development ecosystem that works on MS, Apple, and Linux (rsn I think) and is probably something that is familiar enough for users to not be concerned about downloading/installing because everyone knows Adobe via flash and acrobat reader. This thing has ubiquity written all over it and there is already a decent community of developers. Personally I think flex/air will be huge, not for information sites but definitely for internet applications.
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