Don't panic Ktappe! It's not your responsibility to manage other peoples expectations. As long as you know you are doing your job then that's all matters.
I preferred the way you could view results by category in 10.4 and the way the search results window was organised generally. When you choose ?Show all results?? in 10.5 it is pretty much meaningless. All you get is one big folder of icons.
Nevertheless there are things that are improvements:
[1] Speed ? quick enough to use as app launcher
[2] Dictionary and Calculator, which are really handy and I personally used a lot.
[3] Search contents of recently viewed webpages (in Safari) ? stick your AI username into spotlight and see what comes back!
Maybe I am alone here, but does Spotlight under Leopard suck compared to the Tiger implementation?
I always found things more accurately with Tiger and the Find... option in the Finder was better overall.
Is it just me?
There was a major bug in spotlight (or the file system depending on your POV) in 10.5 that was fixed in 10.5.2. I reported it and worked with Apple engineers in getting them information. The reported UID and GID of a file was different under sudo than under the user and this caused Spotlight to miss files consistently during the initial indexing. If you, for example, renamed a file and named it back - which generate an FSEvent - then spotlight picked it up and was ok until you reindexed (sudo mdutil -E /).
This was extremely consistent behavior. I fixed my disk with a script which fixed all GID and UID's but its also been fixed undo 10.5.2.
In so many ways, Leopard is just a big mess. Talking with a senior support person at Apple, I gather that some folks have few or no problems at all and some systems are simply plagued by bugs. My computer falls into the latter category.
What I wonder is, with problems at this level, can't some of these fixes be delivered ahead of the major release? Or can't 10.5.3 be broken into two releases so those of us who have not experienced this kind of buggy behavior with our Macs since the dawn of OSX can have a little relief?
When I first installed 10.4 on my iMac G5, I had a ridiculous number of crashes. Eventually it turned out that the machine had a hardware fault (as I recall, it had new RAM and a new logic board before it became stable).
A major new release may have the effect of causing crashes by exposing a hardware fault that the previous system happened by luck not to exercise. If you are having a ridiculous number of crashes, I recommend doing some hardware diagnostics (assuming you've already eliminated the other causes by doing a clean install, no non-standard add-ons, etc.).
one the of the main things that keeps bugging me with Mac OS 10.5.2 is the bloody wireless certificates.. i'd have to switch locations acouple of times as well as turning airport on and off a couple of times before it would let me log in at my university network. and despite the fact that i've accepted saved the certificate at my Uni. it keeps on asking me for the password each time it lets me connect.
this happens everytime i put the laptop to sleep "closing the lid even for a second" and the waking up. i just lose the connection and takes acouple of minutes trying to get it to connect, for it to work.
it gets embarrassing at times when you're showing your friends your latest macbook pro laptop and it can't do what their old windows laptop can do without a sweat.
hope they bloody fix this soon.
that and the screen dimming problem.
for ref. i have a MacBook Pro 2.5GHz the last rev.
That's strange - I'm usually the only one in the group with working WLAN The other Windows users would usually fumble around for a few minutes figuring out what's wrong.
It works so well I don't dare install the AirPort updates yet. That's probably one of the hits/misses that affect certain people, like my old machine completely staying offline.
For the certificate issue, I think you could edit something in Keychain Access such that it's always accepted.
Are you on a 15" MBP? I upgraded from a 17" PowerBook to a 15" MBP and found the 15"'s ambient light sensor to be way too sensitive. It caused the frequent dimming so I just disabled it. I think it's just too close to the keyboard
In so many ways, Leopard is just a big mess. Talking with a senior support person at Apple, I gather that some folks have few or no problems at all and some systems are simply plagued by bugs. My computer falls into the latter category.
What I wonder is, with problems at this level, can't some of these fixes be delivered ahead of the major release? Or can't 10.5.3 be broken into two releases so those of us who have not experienced this kind of buggy behavior with our Macs since the dawn of OSX can have a little relief?
Sorry to hear about your predicament. Have you narrowed down where the bugginess is? Is it a PowerPC machine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB
Leopard has become a bit of a juggernaut as Apple tries to encompass its entire business model into its OS. There are a lot of balls in the air...let's hope they stay there.
For the most part, Leopard IMO is pretty impressive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by echosonic
...By 10.3.4 and 10.4.4 the lab where I work was confident enough in OSX that we were able to image a single Mac Hard disk and roll it out to over 20 different mac machines without issue, including mac book pros, imacs, etc...
I've been doing 10.5.1 and 10.5.2 NetBoot/ NetInstall over 3 or so retail stores with average of 10 demo Macs at each store. Frickin' fast and pretty flawless. A technology that most people using Windows (especially in this sad third-world country) can't even grasp at this stage. Not to say I'm hella great but within a country and across the world, the "intelligence (however you want to define it) divide" is pretty massive. Not to mention poverty, healthcare, food supply, etc. challenges.
That's strange - I'm usually the only one in the group with working WLAN The other Windows users would usually fumble around for a few minutes figuring out what's wrong...
You know, given 802.11n is still "draft", and we're dealing with radio signals, I'm generally not always happy with all parties involved. Apple and otherwise
While I too am suffering through the disgraceful bugginess of Leopard, at this point, I actually would like one, massive update and get Leopard to be commercial quality. I don't want to wait until 10.5.8 to finally get a good OS.
Yes, I am anxious for the next release, especially since it appears Apple is hammering out tons of bugs. But I'd rather wait at this point and get a rock solid Leopard in the next release. Sure, there will be still be bugs, but hopefully Leopard will finally be worthy of the Apple name.
I would prefer that Apple release the fixes they already have rather than delaying 10.5.3 to add more.
No matter what you or we or I prefer, doing what you suggest only adds complexity to the development and testing, and we know how complex they already are. This way bugs slip more easily in the final release.
I would agree. Usually Apple hits it pretty hard on the head after the x.3 update anyway, its just their modus operandi.
By 10.3.4 and 10.4.4 the lab where I work was confident enough in OSX that we were able to image a single Mac Hard disk and roll it out to over 20 different mac machines without issue, including mac book pros, imacs, etc...
That says a LOT for Apple, I think, because you sure as hell could not image a single windows computer and then re-image that drive on any old windows machine and even expect it to boot, necessarily.
One should really stick with what one knows , rather than off blowing stream !!
Ingorance is ya undoing with anything too do with NT architecture given ya statement with reguards too reimaging NT architecture itself. Ever heard of SYSPREP !!! read it !
While I too am suffering through the disgraceful bugginess of Leopard, at this point, I actually would like one, massive update and get Leopard to be commercial quality. I don't want to wait until 10.5.8 to finally get a good OS.
Yes, I am anxious for the next release, especially since it appears Apple is hammering out tons of bugs. But I'd rather wait at this point and get a rock solid Leopard in the next release. Sure, there will be still be bugs, but hopefully Leopard will finally be worthy of the Apple name.
Oh, wat a great idea. Stick with the bugs now, and get 10.5.3 released in 2 years time bug-free? Nup. Either way, 10.5.8 will come out within 2 months of planned. You can choose whether you want all the bugs fixed as much as they can now, or you can wait.
In principle, major major updates are fine, and best. Less tampering with the OS. Everything is streamlined and designed for the ultrastable OS build you have. Programs won't be covering bugs, and the workarounds won't be there so it will be faster (yes, there are bugs apple does know about but won't fix at that minute as they take too much time, so programs just get around them - same as the iPhone OS betas at the moment)
There's one problem. While they get all the kinks out, you are stuck with your buggy OS. Its not a legitimate way to do business. Its just like service pack 3 for XP. It took 4 or so years to get out. Thats horrific. Its pretty darn stable, but its just way too long.
People will go "It took till 10.5.3 to work out this many bugs!", and then my reply will be "would you rather they release it now, a year after release, and you had to live for 9 months with ALL the bugs?" - people will say "No way!"
Quite. The concept of '10.5.8' only means what it means to us from the history of the OS. Apple could change things up with more frequent point point updates fixing fewer bugs each and 10.5.8 could hit within a month.
Okay, maybe that makes it more likely that more bugs will be introduced with releases, but in turn it also means they again will get fixed quicker, rather than us just living with them for months and months.
Personally I'm tending towards a preference for change.
Maybe I am alone here, but does Spotlight under Leopard suck compared to the Tiger implementation?
I always found things more accurately with Tiger and the Find... option in the Finder was better overall.
Is it just me?
I find spotlight in Leopard to be just as accurate as in Tiger but its much faster in Leopard. I also like the dictionary function. Quite handy for me.
That's strange - I'm usually the only one in the group with working WLAN The other Windows users would usually fumble around for a few minutes figuring out what's wrong.
It works so well I don't dare install the AirPort updates yet. That's probably one of the hits/misses that affect certain people, like my old machine completely staying offline.
For the certificate issue, I think you could edit something in Keychain Access such that it's always accepted.
Are you on a 15" MBP? I upgraded from a 17" PowerBook to a 15" MBP and found the 15"'s ambient light sensor to be way too sensitive. It caused the frequent dimming so I just disabled it. I think it's just too close to the keyboard
I sometimes have the issue he describes, with my MacBook under 10.5.2.
One should really stick with what one knows , rather than off blowing stream !!
Ingorance is ya undoing with anything too do with NT architecture given ya statement with reguards too reimaging NT architecture itself. Ever heard of SYSPREP !!! read it !
Maybe I am alone here, but does Spotlight under Leopard suck compared to the Tiger implementation?
I always found things more accurately with Tiger and the Find... option in the Finder was better overall.
Is it just me?
Speaking of spotlight, it would be nice to be able to set the results window to something each user prefers. I hate that I always have to move, resize, etc. And why do I have to get safari history results?
Quite. The concept of '10.5.8' only means what it means to us from the history of the OS. Apple could change things up with more frequent point point updates fixing fewer bugs each and 10.5.8 could hit within a month.
Okay, maybe that makes it more likely that more bugs will be introduced with releases, but in turn it also means they again will get fixed quicker, rather than us just living with them for months and months.
Personally I'm tending towards a preference for change.
Hmm... I don't agree with 8 point releases in a moth
As you say, more bugs will be programmed into it.
Apple has found good balance. If you release too often, the bug builds will alter the architecture too much so that it is actually different to how it was planned, and no testing time will be allowed.
A bug workaround, when a bug is fixed, can actually turn into a bug itself, or ten bugs possibly. Now, if they do point releases that often, it may actually take them longer to fix those issues, as testing must occur, and they will get reports of all the bugs - they will combat from first to last. Minor bugs created by eliminating more major ones may be far more prevalent, but they probably wouldn't fix them straight away. In the current system, almost always, when the bugs are removed, the programs are altered so they don't sidestep the bug.
Releasing Mega-Bug Hell in an attempt to eradicate bugs is just pointless. Work on each bug, and compile a half -decent update with it. Never leave more bugs than when you started...
While I too am suffering through the disgraceful bugginess of Leopard, at this point, I actually would like one, massive update and get Leopard to be commercial quality. I don't want to wait until 10.5.8 to finally get a good OS.
Yes, I am anxious for the next release, especially since it appears Apple is hammering out tons of bugs. But I'd rather wait at this point and get a rock solid Leopard in the next release. Sure, there will be still be bugs, but hopefully Leopard will finally be worthy of the Apple name.
All I am hoping for is a fix to the FireWire bug that is plaguing me and many other users on older hardware.
Why does Apple screw up its own technology (for the 2nd time now on FW) whilst leaving USB to look the much safer option.
As a graphic designer I do enjoy the advantages of CoverFlow and the way Leopard freely displays previews of graphics and fonts in many different and useful ways, but wow does it come at a cost! I have 6 external FireWire hard drives and devices now inaccessible from my iMac G5 since I upgraded.
As a graphic designer I do enjoy the advantages of CoverFlow and the way Leopard freely displays previews of graphics and fonts in many different and useful ways, but wow does it come at a cost! I have 6 external FireWire hard drives and devices now inaccessible from my iMac G5 since I upgraded.
Strange - haven't seen that one. You *do* follow the suggestion to disconnect those external drives during the upgrade process, right? (Got bitten by that one once - drive was nastily corrupted after a while. I think that was 10.2 though...)
Comments
I preferred the way you could view results by category in 10.4 and the way the search results window was organised generally. When you choose ?Show all results?? in 10.5 it is pretty much meaningless. All you get is one big folder of icons.
Nevertheless there are things that are improvements:
[1] Speed ? quick enough to use as app launcher
[2] Dictionary and Calculator, which are really handy and I personally used a lot.
[3] Search contents of recently viewed webpages (in Safari) ? stick your AI username into spotlight and see what comes back!
[4] Network search.
Maybe I am alone here, but does Spotlight under Leopard suck compared to the Tiger implementation?
I always found things more accurately with Tiger and the Find... option in the Finder was better overall.
Is it just me?
There was a major bug in spotlight (or the file system depending on your POV) in 10.5 that was fixed in 10.5.2. I reported it and worked with Apple engineers in getting them information. The reported UID and GID of a file was different under sudo than under the user and this caused Spotlight to miss files consistently during the initial indexing. If you, for example, renamed a file and named it back - which generate an FSEvent - then spotlight picked it up and was ok until you reindexed (sudo mdutil -E /).
This was extremely consistent behavior. I fixed my disk with a script which fixed all GID and UID's but its also been fixed undo 10.5.2.
In so many ways, Leopard is just a big mess. Talking with a senior support person at Apple, I gather that some folks have few or no problems at all and some systems are simply plagued by bugs. My computer falls into the latter category.
What I wonder is, with problems at this level, can't some of these fixes be delivered ahead of the major release? Or can't 10.5.3 be broken into two releases so those of us who have not experienced this kind of buggy behavior with our Macs since the dawn of OSX can have a little relief?
When I first installed 10.4 on my iMac G5, I had a ridiculous number of crashes. Eventually it turned out that the machine had a hardware fault (as I recall, it had new RAM and a new logic board before it became stable).
A major new release may have the effect of causing crashes by exposing a hardware fault that the previous system happened by luck not to exercise. If you are having a ridiculous number of crashes, I recommend doing some hardware diagnostics (assuming you've already eliminated the other causes by doing a clean install, no non-standard add-ons, etc.).
one the of the main things that keeps bugging me with Mac OS 10.5.2 is the bloody wireless certificates.. i'd have to switch locations acouple of times as well as turning airport on and off a couple of times before it would let me log in at my university network. and despite the fact that i've accepted saved the certificate at my Uni. it keeps on asking me for the password each time it lets me connect.
this happens everytime i put the laptop to sleep "closing the lid even for a second" and the waking up. i just lose the connection and takes acouple of minutes trying to get it to connect, for it to work.
it gets embarrassing at times when you're showing your friends your latest macbook pro laptop and it can't do what their old windows laptop can do without a sweat.
hope they bloody fix this soon.
that and the screen dimming problem.
for ref. i have a MacBook Pro 2.5GHz the last rev.
That's strange - I'm usually the only one in the group with working WLAN
It works so well I don't dare install the AirPort updates yet. That's probably one of the hits/misses that affect certain people, like my old machine completely staying offline.
For the certificate issue, I think you could edit something in Keychain Access such that it's always accepted.
Are you on a 15" MBP? I upgraded from a 17" PowerBook to a 15" MBP and found the 15"'s ambient light sensor to be way too sensitive. It caused the frequent dimming so I just disabled it. I think it's just too close to the keyboard
In so many ways, Leopard is just a big mess. Talking with a senior support person at Apple, I gather that some folks have few or no problems at all and some systems are simply plagued by bugs. My computer falls into the latter category.
What I wonder is, with problems at this level, can't some of these fixes be delivered ahead of the major release? Or can't 10.5.3 be broken into two releases so those of us who have not experienced this kind of buggy behavior with our Macs since the dawn of OSX can have a little relief?
Sorry to hear about your predicament. Have you narrowed down where the bugginess is? Is it a PowerPC machine?
Leopard has become a bit of a juggernaut as Apple tries to encompass its entire business model into its OS. There are a lot of balls in the air...let's hope they stay there.
For the most part, Leopard IMO is pretty impressive.
...By 10.3.4 and 10.4.4 the lab where I work was confident enough in OSX that we were able to image a single Mac Hard disk and roll it out to over 20 different mac machines without issue, including mac book pros, imacs, etc...
I've been doing 10.5.1 and 10.5.2 NetBoot/ NetInstall over 3 or so retail stores with average of 10 demo Macs at each store. Frickin' fast and pretty flawless. A technology that most people using Windows (especially in this sad third-world country) can't even grasp at this stage. Not to say I'm hella great but within a country and across the world, the "intelligence (however you want to define it) divide" is pretty massive. Not to mention poverty, healthcare, food supply, etc. challenges.
That's strange - I'm usually the only one in the group with working WLAN
You know, given 802.11n is still "draft", and we're dealing with radio signals, I'm generally not always happy with all parties involved. Apple and otherwise
While I too am suffering through the disgraceful bugginess of Leopard, at this point, I actually would like one, massive update and get Leopard to be commercial quality. I don't want to wait until 10.5.8 to finally get a good OS.
Yes, I am anxious for the next release, especially since it appears Apple is hammering out tons of bugs. But I'd rather wait at this point and get a rock solid Leopard in the next release. Sure, there will be still be bugs, but hopefully Leopard will finally be worthy of the Apple name.
I would prefer that Apple release the fixes they already have rather than delaying 10.5.3 to add more.
I would rather apple test the release thoughtfully and add more bug fix to it then hurry the release.
I would prefer that Apple release the fixes they already have rather than delaying 10.5.3 to add more.
No matter what you or we or I prefer, doing what you suggest only adds complexity to the development and testing, and we know how complex they already are. This way bugs slip more easily in the final release.
I would agree. Usually Apple hits it pretty hard on the head after the x.3 update anyway, its just their modus operandi.
By 10.3.4 and 10.4.4 the lab where I work was confident enough in OSX that we were able to image a single Mac Hard disk and roll it out to over 20 different mac machines without issue, including mac book pros, imacs, etc...
That says a LOT for Apple, I think, because you sure as hell could not image a single windows computer and then re-image that drive on any old windows machine and even expect it to boot, necessarily.
One should really stick with what one knows , rather than off blowing stream !!
Ingorance is ya undoing with anything too do with NT architecture given ya statement with reguards too reimaging NT architecture itself. Ever heard of SYSPREP !!! read it !
Cheers
Interesting to read some of the comments here.
While I too am suffering through the disgraceful bugginess of Leopard, at this point, I actually would like one, massive update and get Leopard to be commercial quality. I don't want to wait until 10.5.8 to finally get a good OS.
Yes, I am anxious for the next release, especially since it appears Apple is hammering out tons of bugs. But I'd rather wait at this point and get a rock solid Leopard in the next release. Sure, there will be still be bugs, but hopefully Leopard will finally be worthy of the Apple name.
Oh, wat a great idea. Stick with the bugs now, and get 10.5.3 released in 2 years time bug-free? Nup. Either way, 10.5.8 will come out within 2 months of planned. You can choose whether you want all the bugs fixed as much as they can now, or you can wait.
In principle, major major updates are fine, and best. Less tampering with the OS. Everything is streamlined and designed for the ultrastable OS build you have. Programs won't be covering bugs, and the workarounds won't be there so it will be faster (yes, there are bugs apple does know about but won't fix at that minute as they take too much time, so programs just get around them - same as the iPhone OS betas at the moment)
There's one problem. While they get all the kinks out, you are stuck with your buggy OS. Its not a legitimate way to do business. Its just like service pack 3 for XP. It took 4 or so years to get out. Thats horrific. Its pretty darn stable, but its just way too long.
People will go "It took till 10.5.3 to work out this many bugs!", and then my reply will be "would you rather they release it now, a year after release, and you had to live for 9 months with ALL the bugs?" - people will say "No way!"
Okay, maybe that makes it more likely that more bugs will be introduced with releases, but in turn it also means they again will get fixed quicker, rather than us just living with them for months and months.
Personally I'm tending towards a preference for change.
Maybe I am alone here, but does Spotlight under Leopard suck compared to the Tiger implementation?
I always found things more accurately with Tiger and the Find... option in the Finder was better overall.
Is it just me?
I find spotlight in Leopard to be just as accurate as in Tiger but its much faster in Leopard. I also like the dictionary function. Quite handy for me.
My 2 cents.
That's strange - I'm usually the only one in the group with working WLAN
It works so well I don't dare install the AirPort updates yet. That's probably one of the hits/misses that affect certain people, like my old machine completely staying offline.
For the certificate issue, I think you could edit something in Keychain Access such that it's always accepted.
Are you on a 15" MBP? I upgraded from a 17" PowerBook to a 15" MBP and found the 15"'s ambient light sensor to be way too sensitive. It caused the frequent dimming so I just disabled it. I think it's just too close to the keyboard
I sometimes have the issue he describes, with my MacBook under 10.5.2.
One should really stick with what one knows , rather than off blowing stream !!
Ingorance is ya undoing with anything too do with NT architecture given ya statement with reguards too reimaging NT architecture itself. Ever heard of SYSPREP !!! read it !
Cheers
Redback = obvious anon no-nothing troll.
Maybe I am alone here, but does Spotlight under Leopard suck compared to the Tiger implementation?
I always found things more accurately with Tiger and the Find... option in the Finder was better overall.
Is it just me?
Speaking of spotlight, it would be nice to be able to set the results window to something each user prefers. I hate that I always have to move, resize, etc. And why do I have to get safari history results?
Quite. The concept of '10.5.8' only means what it means to us from the history of the OS. Apple could change things up with more frequent point point updates fixing fewer bugs each and 10.5.8 could hit within a month.
Okay, maybe that makes it more likely that more bugs will be introduced with releases, but in turn it also means they again will get fixed quicker, rather than us just living with them for months and months.
Personally I'm tending towards a preference for change.
Hmm... I don't agree with 8 point releases in a moth
As you say, more bugs will be programmed into it.
Apple has found good balance. If you release too often, the bug builds will alter the architecture too much so that it is actually different to how it was planned, and no testing time will be allowed.
A bug workaround, when a bug is fixed, can actually turn into a bug itself, or ten bugs possibly. Now, if they do point releases that often, it may actually take them longer to fix those issues, as testing must occur, and they will get reports of all the bugs - they will combat from first to last. Minor bugs created by eliminating more major ones may be far more prevalent, but they probably wouldn't fix them straight away. In the current system, almost always, when the bugs are removed, the programs are altered so they don't sidestep the bug.
Releasing Mega-Bug Hell in an attempt to eradicate bugs is just pointless. Work on each bug, and compile a half -decent update with it. Never leave more bugs than when you started...
that approach wastes time.
Interesting to read some of the comments here.
While I too am suffering through the disgraceful bugginess of Leopard, at this point, I actually would like one, massive update and get Leopard to be commercial quality. I don't want to wait until 10.5.8 to finally get a good OS.
Yes, I am anxious for the next release, especially since it appears Apple is hammering out tons of bugs. But I'd rather wait at this point and get a rock solid Leopard in the next release. Sure, there will be still be bugs, but hopefully Leopard will finally be worthy of the Apple name.
All I am hoping for is a fix to the FireWire bug that is plaguing me and many other users on older hardware.
Why does Apple screw up its own technology (for the 2nd time now on FW) whilst leaving USB to look the much safer option.
As a graphic designer I do enjoy the advantages of CoverFlow and the way Leopard freely displays previews of graphics and fonts in many different and useful ways, but wow does it come at a cost! I have 6 external FireWire hard drives and devices now inaccessible from my iMac G5 since I upgraded.
As a graphic designer I do enjoy the advantages of CoverFlow and the way Leopard freely displays previews of graphics and fonts in many different and useful ways, but wow does it come at a cost! I have 6 external FireWire hard drives and devices now inaccessible from my iMac G5 since I upgraded.
Strange - haven't seen that one. You *do* follow the suggestion to disconnect those external drives during the upgrade process, right? (Got bitten by that one once - drive was nastily corrupted after a while. I think that was 10.2 though...)