Besides, if it's for analog, just about any dedicated device has better video output than just about any consumer computer.
.
I don't know what consumer computers you are using but any computer with a XVGA output (800x600 is better than a SD TV and the compression on the streams I've seen from Netflix are WAY worse than that. I'm sure most people here are using computers set to more than or equal to 1080p right now. Here's a DVI to HDMI cable for $20 - http://store.apple.com/us/product/TL952LL/A
All my laptops and Mac Mini can use that cable - there's 1080p for you.
Since you need a computer (just like the Apple TV) to program the queue I imagine you already bought one - you don't need to add one more hence no more cost. This box to me is no more than an adaptor to get my internet to my TV. And a VERY limited internet at that - one website is all you can reach. That is too limiting to me. Anyone who is using a computer now to reach the net only needs to add an adaptor for the video (~$30 for the Mac to s-video - ~$50 for the HDMI one) and a mini to RCA for Stereo (to match the current Netflix capabilities) or an Optical cable (for my mac Mini under ~$20) if their computer supports it. There is are a few USB to surround interfaces if it doesn't. Now you can get streaming from the whole net, DVD playing, Music playing, etc. Oh and you can STORE things for later watching (I'm sure you have the tools for that).
"Since you need a computer" isn't the same as having a computer that can be dedicated to the home theater system. Even the Mac UI generally isn't very well suited to being used with a TV. I do it, but only for specific reasons, and only with HD digital connection, which the picture is fine, but the UI is still not a good fit for recliner / sofa use.
Also, computers are very poor at analog TV output, generally far worse than most stand-alone video devices. Mac to TV by S-Video or PC to TV by S-Video looks like crap. I've never seen a computer to analog TV setup that's has as good picture quality as a $30 DVD player.
If you're paying $50 for a DVI to HDMI adapter, you're paying about 5x too much.
I don't know what consumer computers you are using but any computer with a XVGA output (800x600 is better than a SD TV and the compression on the streams I've seen from Netflix are WAY worse than that.
In all fairness, I haven't played Netflix's streaming service, but compounding digital video artifacts with the worst of analog artifacts doesn't bode well. nVidia, ATI or Matrox, on Windows or Mac (I have that Apple to S-Video connector you linked), it doesn't matter, all their analog TV outs are varying shades of nasty crap. The theoretical output resolution doesn't matter. It's not about the resolution, it's just very crappy conversion to S-Video or composite.
HDTV is a different issue, if it has either a VGA, DVI or HDMI input, then it's going to be a decent (for VGA) to excellent (for DVI/HDMI) display connection. Part of the problem is bad scaling, part of it is bad chroma sampling, and maybe bad video amps and such.
In all fairness, I haven't played Netflix's streaming service, but compounding digital video artifacts with the worst of analog artifacts doesn't bode well. nVidia, ATI or Matrox, on Windows or Mac (I have that Apple to S-Video connector you linked), it doesn't matter, all their analog TV outs are varying shades of nasty crap. The theoretical output resolution doesn't matter. It's not about the resolution, it's just very crappy conversion to S-Video or composite.
HDTV is a different issue, if it has either a VGA, DVI or HDMI input, then it's going to be a decent (for VGA) to excellent (for DVI/HDMI) display connection. Part of the problem is bad scaling, part of it is bad chroma sampling, and maybe bad video amps and such.
I agree that trying to read the text and UI of a computer on a TV is challenging at best - I typically don't (I remote screen share when I do) otherwise I use Front row on the mac and the text etc is scaled for the poor resolution of the TV. TiVo and most PVRs and set-top boxes are are just computers - there is no magic sauce there. When I watch a DVD from my rig (and I assume a MS media server is the same) there is no visible difference to me. Now I just have a 39" CRT TV so I can't vouch for the performance on a HD rig but for movies and NOT the UI there is no difference between a computer and a set-top box. Also the link I gave should have sent you to a page with a DVI to HDMI connector for$20 that is all digital. Also the media always claiming broadcast digital (cablel or satellite) is better is pure crap - ALL digital broadcast is compressed like hell. You can see the artifacts show whenever there is a shadow or a fade-out. It is always going to be a fight. I will miss analog video where gradients and fades were smooth but will get used to digital...
TiVo and most PVRs and set-top boxes are are just computers - there is no magic sauce there.
You are right that they are both computers, but TV out on a conventional computer usually seems to be an afterthought, whereas with the set top box, that's the only thing it does, it can't be an afterthought.
Maybe there's been a major shift in the last couple years. I really wasn't happy with the output from my Rev. a MacBook Pro, and the same from every computer before that.
Quote:
Also the media always claiming broadcast digital (cablel or satellite) is better is pure crap - ALL digital broadcast is compressed like hell. You can see the artifacts show whenever there is a shadow or a fade-out. It is always going to be a fight. I will miss analog video where gradients and fades were smooth but will get used to digital...
I hear you. Digital is great for replicating data accurately, but if the input data is overcompressed the copy will be too, and it looks like the signal is recompressed several times.
Also, computers are very poor at analog TV output, generally far worse than most stand-alone video devices. Mac to TV by S-Video or PC to TV by S-Video looks like crap. I've never seen a computer to analog TV setup that's has as good picture quality as a $30 DVD player.
If you're paying $50 for a DVI to HDMI adapter, you're paying about 5x too much.
I agree. I have a Mac mini connected to my Sony HDTV via a DVI to HDMI cable and the video is sub-par. The text is very hard to read at 720p. It's quite acceptible however for SD content from iTunes or video ripped via HandBrake.
I agree. I have a Mac mini connected to my Sony HDTV via a DVI to HDMI cable and the video is sub-par. The text is very hard to read at 720p. It's quite acceptible however for SD content from iTunes or video ripped via HandBrake.
But that should still look pretty good. I've used a DVI Mac to connect to an HDMI set to good results. Is the mini set to the same resolution as the TV?
I agree. I have a Mac mini connected to my Sony HDTV via a DVI to HDMI cable and the video is sub-par. The text is very hard to read at 720p. It's quite acceptible however for SD content from iTunes or video ripped via HandBrake.
My setup is similar and it's excellent. I watch HD shows recorded with EyeTV all the time. Casual web surfing is nice too, although 1080 would be a bit sharper than my 720p set, for that. Unfortunately, I've heard some HD sets work better with computers than others.
But that should still look pretty good. I've used a DVI Mac to connect to an HDMI set to good results. Is the mini set to the same resolution as the TV?
The Sony has a 720p and 1080i HD resolution. The Mac mac mini resolution is set to 1280x720. The Sony switched automatically depending on the input. It's not a computer monitor. There is not way to force it to any particular resolution.
The Sony has a 720p and 1080i HD resolution. The Mac mac mini resolution is set to 1280x720. The Sony switched automatically depending on the input. It's not a computer monitor. There is not way to force it to any particular resolution.
Is there no way to set the mini to 1920x1080? Seems that would force the TV into the same mode. Maybe not.
Comments
Besides, if it's for analog, just about any dedicated device has better video output than just about any consumer computer.
.
I don't know what consumer computers you are using but any computer with a XVGA output (800x600 is better than a SD TV and the compression on the streams I've seen from Netflix are WAY worse than that. I'm sure most people here are using computers set to more than or equal to 1080p right now. Here's a DVI to HDMI cable for $20 - http://store.apple.com/us/product/TL952LL/A
All my laptops and Mac Mini can use that cable - there's 1080p for you.
Since you need a computer (just like the Apple TV) to program the queue I imagine you already bought one - you don't need to add one more hence no more cost. This box to me is no more than an adaptor to get my internet to my TV. And a VERY limited internet at that - one website is all you can reach. That is too limiting to me. Anyone who is using a computer now to reach the net only needs to add an adaptor for the video (~$30 for the Mac to s-video - ~$50 for the HDMI one) and a mini to RCA for Stereo (to match the current Netflix capabilities) or an Optical cable (for my mac Mini under ~$20) if their computer supports it. There is are a few USB to surround interfaces if it doesn't. Now you can get streaming from the whole net, DVD playing, Music playing, etc. Oh and you can STORE things for later watching (I'm sure you have the tools for that).
"Since you need a computer" isn't the same as having a computer that can be dedicated to the home theater system. Even the Mac UI generally isn't very well suited to being used with a TV. I do it, but only for specific reasons, and only with HD digital connection, which the picture is fine, but the UI is still not a good fit for recliner / sofa use.
Also, computers are very poor at analog TV output, generally far worse than most stand-alone video devices. Mac to TV by S-Video or PC to TV by S-Video looks like crap. I've never seen a computer to analog TV setup that's has as good picture quality as a $30 DVD player.
If you're paying $50 for a DVI to HDMI adapter, you're paying about 5x too much.
I don't know what consumer computers you are using but any computer with a XVGA output (800x600 is better than a SD TV and the compression on the streams I've seen from Netflix are WAY worse than that.
In all fairness, I haven't played Netflix's streaming service, but compounding digital video artifacts with the worst of analog artifacts doesn't bode well. nVidia, ATI or Matrox, on Windows or Mac (I have that Apple to S-Video connector you linked), it doesn't matter, all their analog TV outs are varying shades of nasty crap. The theoretical output resolution doesn't matter. It's not about the resolution, it's just very crappy conversion to S-Video or composite.
HDTV is a different issue, if it has either a VGA, DVI or HDMI input, then it's going to be a decent (for VGA) to excellent (for DVI/HDMI) display connection. Part of the problem is bad scaling, part of it is bad chroma sampling, and maybe bad video amps and such.
In all fairness, I haven't played Netflix's streaming service, but compounding digital video artifacts with the worst of analog artifacts doesn't bode well. nVidia, ATI or Matrox, on Windows or Mac (I have that Apple to S-Video connector you linked), it doesn't matter, all their analog TV outs are varying shades of nasty crap. The theoretical output resolution doesn't matter. It's not about the resolution, it's just very crappy conversion to S-Video or composite.
HDTV is a different issue, if it has either a VGA, DVI or HDMI input, then it's going to be a decent (for VGA) to excellent (for DVI/HDMI) display connection. Part of the problem is bad scaling, part of it is bad chroma sampling, and maybe bad video amps and such.
I agree that trying to read the text and UI of a computer on a TV is challenging at best - I typically don't (I remote screen share when I do) otherwise I use Front row on the mac and the text etc is scaled for the poor resolution of the TV. TiVo and most PVRs and set-top boxes are are just computers - there is no magic sauce there. When I watch a DVD from my rig (and I assume a MS media server is the same) there is no visible difference to me. Now I just have a 39" CRT TV so I can't vouch for the performance on a HD rig but for movies and NOT the UI there is no difference between a computer and a set-top box. Also the link I gave should have sent you to a page with a DVI to HDMI connector for$20 that is all digital. Also the media always claiming broadcast digital (cablel or satellite) is better is pure crap - ALL digital broadcast is compressed like hell. You can see the artifacts show whenever there is a shadow or a fade-out. It is always going to be a fight. I will miss analog video where gradients and fades were smooth but will get used to digital...
TiVo and most PVRs and set-top boxes are are just computers - there is no magic sauce there.
You are right that they are both computers, but TV out on a conventional computer usually seems to be an afterthought, whereas with the set top box, that's the only thing it does, it can't be an afterthought.
Maybe there's been a major shift in the last couple years. I really wasn't happy with the output from my Rev. a MacBook Pro, and the same from every computer before that.
Also the media always claiming broadcast digital (cablel or satellite) is better is pure crap - ALL digital broadcast is compressed like hell. You can see the artifacts show whenever there is a shadow or a fade-out. It is always going to be a fight. I will miss analog video where gradients and fades were smooth but will get used to digital...
I hear you. Digital is great for replicating data accurately, but if the input data is overcompressed the copy will be too, and it looks like the signal is recompressed several times.
//looks at Apple TV
Wake me when they're 1080p H.264 and the stream gets 30Mbps without stuttering. Until then I'll keep buying bits on spinning discs.
Also, computers are very poor at analog TV output, generally far worse than most stand-alone video devices. Mac to TV by S-Video or PC to TV by S-Video looks like crap. I've never seen a computer to analog TV setup that's has as good picture quality as a $30 DVD player.
If you're paying $50 for a DVI to HDMI adapter, you're paying about 5x too much.
I agree. I have a Mac mini connected to my Sony HDTV via a DVI to HDMI cable and the video is sub-par. The text is very hard to read at 720p. It's quite acceptible however for SD content from iTunes or video ripped via HandBrake.
I agree. I have a Mac mini connected to my Sony HDTV via a DVI to HDMI cable and the video is sub-par. The text is very hard to read at 720p. It's quite acceptible however for SD content from iTunes or video ripped via HandBrake.
But that should still look pretty good. I've used a DVI Mac to connect to an HDMI set to good results. Is the mini set to the same resolution as the TV?
I agree. I have a Mac mini connected to my Sony HDTV via a DVI to HDMI cable and the video is sub-par. The text is very hard to read at 720p. It's quite acceptible however for SD content from iTunes or video ripped via HandBrake.
My setup is similar and it's excellent. I watch HD shows recorded with EyeTV all the time. Casual web surfing is nice too, although 1080 would be a bit sharper than my 720p set, for that. Unfortunately, I've heard some HD sets work better with computers than others.
But that should still look pretty good. I've used a DVI Mac to connect to an HDMI set to good results. Is the mini set to the same resolution as the TV?
The Sony has a 720p and 1080i HD resolution. The Mac mac mini resolution is set to 1280x720. The Sony switched automatically depending on the input. It's not a computer monitor. There is not way to force it to any particular resolution.
The Sony has a 720p and 1080i HD resolution. The Mac mac mini resolution is set to 1280x720. The Sony switched automatically depending on the input. It's not a computer monitor. There is not way to force it to any particular resolution.
Is there no way to set the mini to 1920x1080? Seems that would force the TV into the same mode. Maybe not.