Much of what's in schools is G4/G5 iMacs & eMAcs. They do need to support for 5 years, as this is a pretty good indication of how long schools hang on - 3 years under AppleCare and then gamble for a year or two.
I understand the need to push things along, marketing-wise, but this is too early a drop for PPC, if they want to keep their edu market happy.
Not to mention the legions of G4/G5 xserves out there. It's one thing to tell your boss you'll have to cripple the $1K iMacs - it's quite another thing to tell them the bank of $3K servers is in the dust and the only way to stay current is another entire purchase of iron.
Much of what's in schools is G4/G5 iMacs & eMAcs. They do need to support for 5 years, as this is a pretty good indication of how long schools hang on - 3 years under AppleCare and then gamble for a year or two.
I understand the need to push things along, marketing-wise, but this is too early a drop for PPC, if they want to keep their edu market happy.
Not to mention the legions of G4/G5 xserves out there. It's one thing to tell your boss you'll have to cripple the $1K iMacs - it's quite another thing to tell them the bank of $3K servers is in the dust and the only way to stay current is another entire purchase of iron.
And they will continue to get support, they just can't run the Latest OS, this isn't new in the school systems, my Dad said he just reloaded a bank of iMacs with Mac OS 9 last week.
JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE RELEASING A NEW OS, IT DOESN"T MEAN YOUR OLD ONE STOPS WORKING!
When did Mac users become a bunch of Chicken Littles? The sky is not falling. Remember this is a Rumor AND it is likely the new OS won't release for at least another year. They are possibly getting the developers on board now so they can prepare for the changes, most developers are looking forward to this because it simplifies the code, (maybe we'll cut down on the 400 MB OS updates.) Remember this is the WWDC it is the conference for developers, not for the users. We could still be 2 years away from this release, no one really knows yet.
You can plug an external monitor into the iMac. That's how I do it. Keep the palette on the iMac screen, do the photo work on the other.
Exactly the way I run it at my day job: 20" refurb iMac with a 24" refurb Dell monitor. (I took my EIZO 24" home for my "night" job. Didn't need it for print work at the office.) Although I mostly use the iMac screen for running Remote Desktop Connection to a PC.) Total cost was $1700 for a completely adequate DTP and design workstation with a ton of screen real estate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation
So sick of the "you can't do photo work on the iMac" argument. Think past your nose people. And by the time 10.6 is actually released your PPC Mac will be at least 3 years old. They've already eliminated a huge number of computers from the Leopard upgrade. You have likely more than a year to save up for a new computer if you absolutely have to have the latest software. It isn't like all PowerPC Macs are going to stop working when 10.6 is released.
I think many of the people who will argue that 10.6 release is too soon will also say they won't touch it until it hits 10.6.3. (What was it with Leopard - 8 months, 9?) And I don't understand those who rush to get the latest version of any application and then fill up forums with complaints about bugs and lost features from the previous versions. If you still make money with it, buying newer versions is just fixing what ain't broke.
How do I know if my MacBook Pro runs 32 or 64 Bit? I am ignorant of such things... now I feel shame.
Just check to see if you have a Core2 Duo. Only the Core Duo MBP support only 32-bit.
The transitions Apple may ask developers to make or better the reaction to the transition is going to be based on what tools Apple provides to ease the pain.
We all know that 64-bit is the future so improvement in tools for compiling code to 64-bit would help along with Apple delivering a great 64-bit infrastructure for them to work within.
Carbon to Cocoa- So 64-bit is Cocoa only. Yet another opportunity for something cool to make it relatively painless for developers.
The end result is a cleaner platform. 64-bit through and through and Cocoa is King. Those that need PPC can happily stay on Leopard until their next hardware refresh. Leopard "is" a good OS and I expect to see a 10.5.10 version someday.
10.6 really doesn't need many new whizzbang features. It needs polishing. Take the Core API and polish them. Improve the OS' handling of metadata and definitely improve the multicore support and threading as going into 2009 we're going to see 16 core workstations with 32 logical cores. OS X should strive to be as responsive as ever.
64-bit doesn't help performance. It helps run apps that need >4Gigs memory. I doubt you need >4gigs for a web browser.
It does on x86 because AMD took advantage of the 64bit switch to add more registers to the AMD64 standard (which intel then followed with their version, EM64T). It's not the shift to 64-bit computing that gains the speed, but the fact that with 64bit on AMD64/EM64T you get more registers.
10.6 as a minor update makes sense if it's a major update for other new hardware. I.e., if 10.6 is multi-touch and intended to run on a new Apple multi-touch device then it'd probably be a minor update for non-multi-touch computers that won't get the new UI features.
* system self-reinstall (I mean - it deletes itself, reinstalls OSX from online, installs your apps from online, and restores documents/music/movies from your TImeMachine, Online backup, Previous Purchases, and iPod syncs
* seamless Xgrid - speed up every computer on your network by sharing processing power.
* user mobility - log in to any Mac and get your own desktop (including documents/apps/music/etc)
system self-reinstall alot of people don't have the bandwidth for that.
* user mobility windows has that you need a Server for that.
I'm very surprised to see Apple giving up the revenue if this is true.
Basically they would be giving up the cash they get from every G4 and G5 user who automatically upgrade when a new cat is released. At $129 a pop I would bet that they have the costs of keeping the PPC supported well covered.
Say there are only a million PPC users that upgrade to the new cat. That's probably around $100,000,000 cash in Apple's hands. Hell, that pays for a new jet for Steve J with money left over for the cost of continued PPC support.
Or are you just another "I want a Mac mini-tower" troll?
Apple lack of a good desktop and the weak screens in the imacs is keeping people on PPC. The high price of the mini for it's hardware is a trun off as well.
$799.00 for 1gb of ram, 120GB 5400 rpm hd, 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, no Keyboard & Mouse, and pos old intel gma x950 What a joke.
Or are you just another "I want a Mac mini-tower" troll?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino
Much of what's in schools is G4/G5 iMacs & eMAcs. They do need to support for 5 years, as this is a pretty good indication of how long schools hang on - 3 years under AppleCare and then gamble for a year or two.
I understand the need to push things along, marketing-wise, but this is too early a drop for PPC, if they want to keep their edu market happy.
Not to mention the legions of G4/G5 xserves out there. It's one thing to tell your boss you'll have to cripple the $1K iMacs - it's quite another thing to tell them the bank of $3K servers is in the dust and the only way to stay current is another entire purchase of iron.
in the past apple has put edu market only updates for some there software to make it run on new hardware / support older hardware.
Just check to see if you have a Core2 Duo. Only the Core Duo MBP support only 32-bit.
The transitions Apple may ask developers to make or better the reaction to the transition is going to be based on what tools Apple provides to ease the pain.
We all know that 64-bit is the future so improvement in tools for compiling code to 64-bit would help along with Apple delivering a great 64-bit infrastructure for them to work within.
Carbon to Cocoa- So 64-bit is Cocoa only. Yet another opportunity for something cool to make it relatively painless for developers.
The end result is a cleaner platform. 64-bit through and through and Cocoa is King. Those that need PPC can happily stay on Leopard until their next hardware refresh. Leopard "is" a good OS and I expect to see a 10.5.10 version someday.
10.6 really doesn't need many new whizzbang features. It needs polishing. Take the Core API and polish them. Improve the OS' handling of metadata and definitely improve the multicore support and threading as going into 2009 we're going to see 16 core workstations with 32 logical cores. OS X should strive to be as responsive as ever.
apple dropping 32 bit apps will be bad no cs3, or cs4 on 10.6.
also why drop there new tech that lets you run PPC apps on x86?
Apple lack of a good desktop and the weak screens in the imacs is keeping people on PPC. The high price of the mini for it's hardware is a trun off as well.
$799.00 for 1gb of ram, 120GB 5400 rpm hd, 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, no Keyboard & Mouse, and pos old intel gma x950 What a joke.
Just paid 1800.00 dollars for the CS3 design premium package about 3 weeks ago. There can't be a situation where it would simply stop working with OS 10.6 could there? Wouldn't there be some patch? Adobe upgrades aren't cheap and CS4 is supposed to be 32-bit.
apple dropping 32 bit apps will be bad no cs3, or cs4 on 10.6.
also why drop there new tech that lets you run PPC apps on x86?
I think Apple would drop Native 32-bit support. I'm not saying that 10.6 won't run 32-bit apps but it would likely have to use a 64-bit version of Rosetta that runs 32-bit apps in a compatibility mode.
Apple needs to provide the developer tools to easily create optimized 64-bit apps but they would indeed be foolish by not offering a "bridge" from the 32-bit world.
The better question is "what's the advantage of keeping PPC and 32-bit support?" Apple is in the business of selling computer hardware and software. Why should they extend so many developer resources towards hardware they sold 4 years ago? Leopard will be fine for most PPC machines and those that need power will be looking to refresh to 64-bit soon enough. May as well give'em something stable to move to.
My guess is that 10.6 will be released to developers in September/October, so it will be ready for new Mac Touch unveiled during WWDC in January 2009.
Features:
extensive support for multitouch
ZFS support (improved timemachine+filevault, local filesystem snapshots)
resolution independence
support for having home folder on iPod/iPhone + better .mac/.me integration
secondary metadata indexing in spotlight
That sounds about right to me. It's clear that Apple needs to incorporate extensive support for multi-touch in the Mac version of OS X, and quick. There are a lot of developers who are rushing to write cool new apps multi-touch apps for the iPhone now; many of them will also want their apps to run on Macs (not limited to iPhone or iTouch), and without the multi-touch on Macs, this will be a hassle (or even impossible) in many cases. Also, if Apple doesn't get extensive multi-touch support in the Mac OS X soon, they risk letting MS steal their thunder (even if only with vaporware).
Anyway, Apple could deliver some major OS X upgrades like those listed above -- ZFS, multi-touch support, res independence, etc. -- which, though major, might not actually change much in terms of the UI. So for the average user, it might not look like much of an upgrade, but for those who understand a bit more about the OS, it would be a major event.
I know someone who still runs Mac OS 8.5 on a PPC 603 (I don't remember the exact model). And I still keep my OS 9.2 Wallstreet. Time to see if it can boot again.
Still running a Quadra840av with Avid Videoshop... OS 7.6.1! 68040 chip at 40mhz. Who here still has a working Macintosh SE II? I'd like to see you try to run 10.6 on that!
Comments
I understand the need to push things along, marketing-wise, but this is too early a drop for PPC, if they want to keep their edu market happy.
Not to mention the legions of G4/G5 xserves out there. It's one thing to tell your boss you'll have to cripple the $1K iMacs - it's quite another thing to tell them the bank of $3K servers is in the dust and the only way to stay current is another entire purchase of iron.
How do I know if my MacBook Pro runs 32 or 64 Bit? I am ignorant of such things... now I feel shame.
If it's a really early MBP with a Core Duo CPU, it's 32bit. If it's later and has a Core 2 Duo - both 32bit and 64bit.
Click the apple in the top left menu, select 'About this Mac'
Much of what's in schools is G4/G5 iMacs & eMAcs. They do need to support for 5 years, as this is a pretty good indication of how long schools hang on - 3 years under AppleCare and then gamble for a year or two.
I understand the need to push things along, marketing-wise, but this is too early a drop for PPC, if they want to keep their edu market happy.
Not to mention the legions of G4/G5 xserves out there. It's one thing to tell your boss you'll have to cripple the $1K iMacs - it's quite another thing to tell them the bank of $3K servers is in the dust and the only way to stay current is another entire purchase of iron.
And they will continue to get support, they just can't run the Latest OS, this isn't new in the school systems, my Dad said he just reloaded a bank of iMacs with Mac OS 9 last week.
JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE RELEASING A NEW OS, IT DOESN"T MEAN YOUR OLD ONE STOPS WORKING!
When did Mac users become a bunch of Chicken Littles? The sky is not falling. Remember this is a Rumor AND it is likely the new OS won't release for at least another year. They are possibly getting the developers on board now so they can prepare for the changes, most developers are looking forward to this because it simplifies the code, (maybe we'll cut down on the 400 MB OS updates.) Remember this is the WWDC it is the conference for developers, not for the users. We could still be 2 years away from this release, no one really knows yet.
You can plug an external monitor into the iMac. That's how I do it. Keep the palette on the iMac screen, do the photo work on the other.
Exactly the way I run it at my day job: 20" refurb iMac with a 24" refurb Dell monitor. (I took my EIZO 24" home for my "night" job. Didn't need it for print work at the office.) Although I mostly use the iMac screen for running Remote Desktop Connection to a PC.) Total cost was $1700 for a completely adequate DTP and design workstation with a ton of screen real estate.
So sick of the "you can't do photo work on the iMac" argument. Think past your nose people. And by the time 10.6 is actually released your PPC Mac will be at least 3 years old. They've already eliminated a huge number of computers from the Leopard upgrade. You have likely more than a year to save up for a new computer if you absolutely have to have the latest software. It isn't like all PowerPC Macs are going to stop working when 10.6 is released.
I think many of the people who will argue that 10.6 release is too soon will also say they won't touch it until it hits 10.6.3. (What was it with Leopard - 8 months, 9?) And I don't understand those who rush to get the latest version of any application and then fill up forums with complaints about bugs and lost features from the previous versions. If you still make money with it, buying newer versions is just fixing what ain't broke.
How do I know if my MacBook Pro runs 32 or 64 Bit? I am ignorant of such things... now I feel shame.
Just check to see if you have a Core2 Duo. Only the Core Duo MBP support only 32-bit.
The transitions Apple may ask developers to make or better the reaction to the transition is going to be based on what tools Apple provides to ease the pain.
We all know that 64-bit is the future so improvement in tools for compiling code to 64-bit would help along with Apple delivering a great 64-bit infrastructure for them to work within.
Carbon to Cocoa- So 64-bit is Cocoa only. Yet another opportunity for something cool to make it relatively painless for developers.
The end result is a cleaner platform. 64-bit through and through and Cocoa is King. Those that need PPC can happily stay on Leopard until their next hardware refresh. Leopard "is" a good OS and I expect to see a 10.5.10 version someday.
10.6 really doesn't need many new whizzbang features. It needs polishing. Take the Core API and polish them. Improve the OS' handling of metadata and definitely improve the multicore support and threading as going into 2009 we're going to see 16 core workstations with 32 logical cores. OS X should strive to be as responsive as ever.
64-bit doesn't help performance. It helps run apps that need >4Gigs memory. I doubt you need >4gigs for a web browser.
It does on x86 because AMD took advantage of the 64bit switch to add more registers to the AMD64 standard (which intel then followed with their version, EM64T). It's not the shift to 64-bit computing that gains the speed, but the fact that with 64bit on AMD64/EM64T you get more registers.
* system self-reinstall (I mean - it deletes itself, reinstalls OSX from online, installs your apps from online, and restores documents/music/movies from your TImeMachine, Online backup, Previous Purchases, and iPod syncs
* seamless Xgrid - speed up every computer on your network by sharing processing power.
* user mobility - log in to any Mac and get your own desktop (including documents/apps/music/etc)
system self-reinstall alot of people don't have the bandwidth for that.
* user mobility windows has that you need a Server for that.
Features:
extensive support for multitouch
ZFS support (improved timemachine+filevault, local filesystem snapshots)
resolution independence
support for having home folder on iPod/iPhone + better .mac/.me integration
secondary metadata indexing in spotlight
Basically they would be giving up the cash they get from every G4 and G5 user who automatically upgrade when a new cat is released. At $129 a pop I would bet that they have the costs of keeping the PPC supported well covered.
Say there are only a million PPC users that upgrade to the new cat. That's probably around $100,000,000 cash in Apple's hands. Hell, that pays for a new jet for Steve J with money left over for the cost of continued PPC support.
Relevance?
Or are you just another "I want a Mac mini-tower" troll?
Apple lack of a good desktop and the weak screens in the imacs is keeping people on PPC. The high price of the mini for it's hardware is a trun off as well.
$799.00 for 1gb of ram, 120GB 5400 rpm hd, 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, no Keyboard & Mouse, and pos old intel gma x950 What a joke.
Relevance?
Or are you just another "I want a Mac mini-tower" troll?
Much of what's in schools is G4/G5 iMacs & eMAcs. They do need to support for 5 years, as this is a pretty good indication of how long schools hang on - 3 years under AppleCare and then gamble for a year or two.
I understand the need to push things along, marketing-wise, but this is too early a drop for PPC, if they want to keep their edu market happy.
Not to mention the legions of G4/G5 xserves out there. It's one thing to tell your boss you'll have to cripple the $1K iMacs - it's quite another thing to tell them the bank of $3K servers is in the dust and the only way to stay current is another entire purchase of iron.
in the past apple has put edu market only updates for some there software to make it run on new hardware / support older hardware.
Just check to see if you have a Core2 Duo. Only the Core Duo MBP support only 32-bit.
The transitions Apple may ask developers to make or better the reaction to the transition is going to be based on what tools Apple provides to ease the pain.
We all know that 64-bit is the future so improvement in tools for compiling code to 64-bit would help along with Apple delivering a great 64-bit infrastructure for them to work within.
Carbon to Cocoa- So 64-bit is Cocoa only. Yet another opportunity for something cool to make it relatively painless for developers.
The end result is a cleaner platform. 64-bit through and through and Cocoa is King. Those that need PPC can happily stay on Leopard until their next hardware refresh. Leopard "is" a good OS and I expect to see a 10.5.10 version someday.
10.6 really doesn't need many new whizzbang features. It needs polishing. Take the Core API and polish them. Improve the OS' handling of metadata and definitely improve the multicore support and threading as going into 2009 we're going to see 16 core workstations with 32 logical cores. OS X should strive to be as responsive as ever.
apple dropping 32 bit apps will be bad no cs3, or cs4 on 10.6.
also why drop there new tech that lets you run PPC apps on x86?
Apple lack of a good desktop and the weak screens in the imacs is keeping people on PPC. The high price of the mini for it's hardware is a trun off as well.
$799.00 for 1gb of ram, 120GB 5400 rpm hd, 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, no Keyboard & Mouse, and pos old intel gma x950 What a joke.
apple dropping 32 bit apps will be bad no cs3, or cs4 on 10.6.
also why drop there new tech that lets you run PPC apps on x86?
I think Apple would drop Native 32-bit support. I'm not saying that 10.6 won't run 32-bit apps but it would likely have to use a 64-bit version of Rosetta that runs 32-bit apps in a compatibility mode.
Apple needs to provide the developer tools to easily create optimized 64-bit apps but they would indeed be foolish by not offering a "bridge" from the 32-bit world.
The better question is "what's the advantage of keeping PPC and 32-bit support?" Apple is in the business of selling computer hardware and software. Why should they extend so many developer resources towards hardware they sold 4 years ago? Leopard will be fine for most PPC machines and those that need power will be looking to refresh to 64-bit soon enough. May as well give'em something stable to move to.
My guess is that 10.6 will be released to developers in September/October, so it will be ready for new Mac Touch unveiled during WWDC in January 2009.
Features:
extensive support for multitouch
ZFS support (improved timemachine+filevault, local filesystem snapshots)
resolution independence
support for having home folder on iPod/iPhone + better .mac/.me integration
secondary metadata indexing in spotlight
That sounds about right to me. It's clear that Apple needs to incorporate extensive support for multi-touch in the Mac version of OS X, and quick. There are a lot of developers who are rushing to write cool new apps multi-touch apps for the iPhone now; many of them will also want their apps to run on Macs (not limited to iPhone or iTouch), and without the multi-touch on Macs, this will be a hassle (or even impossible) in many cases. Also, if Apple doesn't get extensive multi-touch support in the Mac OS X soon, they risk letting MS steal their thunder (even if only with vaporware).
Anyway, Apple could deliver some major OS X upgrades like those listed above -- ZFS, multi-touch support, res independence, etc. -- which, though major, might not actually change much in terms of the UI. So for the average user, it might not look like much of an upgrade, but for those who understand a bit more about the OS, it would be a major event.
I know someone who still runs Mac OS 8.5 on a PPC 603 (I don't remember the exact model). And I still keep my OS 9.2 Wallstreet. Time to see if it can boot again.
Still running a Quadra840av with Avid Videoshop... OS 7.6.1! 68040 chip at 40mhz. Who here still has a working Macintosh SE II? I'd like to see you try to run 10.6 on that!