It depends on who you speak to. Supposedly, it led to the capture of that guy a couple of years ago trying to come in through Canada.
But, as this is all secret, we only know what they want to tell us about any possible results.
Personally, I doubt it's done very much that's been helpful. Most security experts say that while it's probably led them to a few people who should be watched, and a couple of arrests like that guy I mentioned, if a terrorist group really wants to stay under the radar they could. The opposite to that is said that if this wasn't publicized, terrorists wouldn't know about it, and so wouldn't avoid it.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
yeah, and the only way to actually catch someone electronic means is to wiretap everyone and have machines do the selection... which means that everyones emails, surfing and IM's are monitored, constantly... no one can tell me that there's actually a judge asked for a warrant every time an email is checked or an IM account monitored... that's bullshit... and there's no mechanisms in place to make sure there's no abuse... who's monitoring the monitors... no one!!!
and it's not just the complacent ones that let this happen... it the politicians that said and did/do nothing...
there's still people being held in gitmo without seeing a judge, there still CIA flights worldwide to out of the country holding facilities so no judge every gets asked for a warrant... and the error rate is extremely high... if anyone of us got kidnapped, waterboarded and a few months/years later released in the middle of nowhere, what would you think of that country that is/was responsible for all that shit??? nothing good would go thru my mind...
We use soft water, they used hard water. Much more humane.
who is "we"..
and i think the topic is way to depressing to make jokes about it... so many cases of innocent people, mostly name mix-ups, have come to light, it's frightening!
and i think the topic is way to depressing to make jokes about it... so many cases of innocent people, mostly name mix-ups, have come to light, it's frightening!
It is frightening, but I don't think this is the right forum to discuss it and I tend to make jokes about serious issues as a way of dealing with them.
It is frightening, but I don't think this is the right forum to discuss it and I tend to make jokes about serious issues as a way of dealing with them.
the thing with jokes is that it somehow tries to belittle the problem... this problem needs dealing with, i hope that the new administration will DEAL with it... and the rest of those wrong decisions...
the new embassy in berlin is like a fortress, like if it would be standing in baghdad... ridiculous...
the army dorms for GIs and their families have been sealed of from the german houses next to them, with 24h guards (private companies). the only thing that does it to create fear in everybody involved... there's a lot of GIs and their families that live in regular german houses and apartments, but those do not get the 24h security or a fence around their apartment... the whole thing is so out of touch with reality and the waste of tax payer money is so extreme.... i don't even want to know how much money is wasted on the "war on terror".
imagine what building schools and paying teachers with those sums could do in the countries that have problems with radicalized people... no one asks the question that needs to be asked, what can be done to change the situation... there's no plan, no concept... to kill people and send soldiers overseas has never worked... it only makes things worse...
the thing with jokes is that it somehow tries to belittle the problem... this problem needs dealing with
If you can convince me that it can be dealt with on an AI board that was originally about AT&T speed boosts I'll be more than happy to get all politically correct.
don't forget that iraq and the torturing of prisoners by the CIA and all those things a lot of people that had a moderated view on things actually changed their mind and were pushed into the terrorist direction... this is the typical thing, repressive regimes actually create their own enemies...
i hope those government officials have to endure "water boarding" once in their life...
water boarding was considered a war crime in WWII, and japanese soldiers actually got convicted by american military courts for committing those atrocities... but now it's OK to use it on others... what perverse logic is behind that??? i don't get it...
There's a logic to it, and I understand it, but that doesn't make it right.
A statement one of the major terrorists made several years ago was that this is what they wanted to see. They wanted us to become so afraid that we would fall into a police state. This administration has fallen into the trap. It's funny how the religious right in every country is so easily led.
It's hard to argue against this if some major event is known, but not enough is known to stop it. Extreme measures may be reasonable. But for everyday extraction of information, it's tough to justify. It also rarely works in the case of hardened people.
We have a pretty resilient society, even at the worst time, enough people here, including those in congress, have spoken out against it, and the courts ARE independent, they have ruled, almost 100% (including the Supreme Court, except in one instance) against the administration's use of this, and the methods they have wanted to use to try them. Even the military courts have resisted. One colonel was recently removed for resisting, and there is already an investigation of that.
It's a sad situation, but we'll come through it. You know the next administration will stop this cold, no matter who gets in.
If you can convince me that it can be dealt with on an AI board that was originally about AT&T speed boosts I'll be more than happy not to get all politically correct.
There's a logic to it, and I understand it, but that doesn't make it right.
A statement one of the major terrorists made several years ago was that this is what they wanted to see. They wanted us to become so afraid that we would fall into a police state. This administration has fallen into the trap. It's funny how the religious right in every country is so easily led.
It's hard to argue against this if some major event is known, but not enough is known to stop it. Extreme measures may be reasonable. But for everyday extraction of information, it's tough to justify. It also rarely works in the case of hardened people.
We have a pretty resilient society, even at the worst time, enough people here, including those in congress, have spoken out against it, and the courts ARE independent, they have ruled, almost 100% (including the Supreme Court, except in one instance) against the administration's use of this, and the methods they have wanted to use to try them. Even the military courts have resisted. One colonel was recently removed for resisting, and there is already an investigation of that.
It's a sad situation, but we'll come through it. You know the next administration will stop this cold, no matter who gets in.
we can always learn form history... even back in medieval people knew that torture will make everyone confess to things they have absolutely no idea about, what makes people today think that that basic human behavior has changed...
and laws are laws and make our society what it really is. and if those laws are broken, no matter for what reason, and much worse by the institutions that should uphold it, who will uphold the law if not the ones having to safeguard it...??? it's a chain of events, and if it's not broken it will not lead to good outcome...
we have ethics and moral, and if we apply to different sets of those standards just because we think there's a case for an exemption, where will it all end??? there's thnigs that can not be stopped and stop them from happening people have to work better and harder and have to communicate better...
in the case of 9/11 it became clear shortly after that the event could have been avoided if people would have listened to each other... there was/is absolutely no justification for torture, no matter what the circumstances are... it gives justification to the really bad states and people to do the same to us... only if we uphold our own standards we can ask others to do the same...
the same applies to CO2 emissions and all the other things like overfishing etc.
the thing with jokes is that it somehow tries to belittle the problem... this problem needs dealing with, i hope that the new administration will DEAL with it... and the rest of those wrong decisions...
the new embassy in berlin is like a fortress, like if it would be standing in baghdad... ridiculous...
the army dorms for GIs and their families have been sealed of from the german houses next to them, with 24h guards (private companies). the only thing that does it to create fear in everybody involved... there's a lot of GIs and their families that live in regular german houses and apartments, but those do not get the 24h security or a fence around their apartment... the whole thing is so out of touch with reality and the waste of tax payer money is so extreme.... i don't even want to know how much money is wasted on the "war on terror".
imagine what building schools and paying teachers with those sums could do in the countries that have problems with radicalized people... no one asks the question that needs to be asked, what can be done to change the situation... there's no plan, no concept... to kill people and send soldiers overseas has never worked... it only makes things worse...
I don't agree that it's out of line. I think it's unfortunate it's come to this. But, we've seen car and truck bombs destroy our embassies around the world by terrorists. Protection is warranted.
Our personnel are also threatened. I'm sure the families of those in those countries would feel fine about having some of their members killed because we failed to protect our people. I'm sure they wouldn't blame us. Would they?
We can't spend the money in those radicalized countries, because they either have more than enough money already, such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, or don't want our money. These people are radicalized because of their own governments failing to supply what is needed. They are also often run by those who use this radicalization to stir up their people against "outside" influence. Several of these countries don't even allow aid organizations into their countries to help in time of major famine.
I don't agree that it's out of line. I think it's unfortunate it's come to this. But, we've seen car and truck bombs destroy our embassies around the world by terrorists. Protection is warranted.
Our personnel are also threatened. I'm sure the families of those in those countries would feel fine about having some of their members killed because we failed to protect our people. I'm sure they wouldn't blame us. Would they?
We can't spend the money in those radicalized countries, because they either have more than enough money already, such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, or don't want our money. These people are radicalized because of their own governments failing to supply what is needed. They are also often run by those who use this radicalization to stir up their people against "outside" influence. Several of these countries don't even allow aid organizations into their countries to help in time of major famine.
Your solution is a well meaning, but naive one.
i beg your pardon, but here in germany there's no security problem, hence no need to bunker in the embassy or living quarters... hence my remark about it. i didn't talk about kenia, sudan, iraq or afghanistan... i hope you know where germany is and what political system it has and what the country is like???
google US embassy berlin architecture, there's a good new york times article from 2004 on the topic, the embassy was finished this month... and the whole diplomatic community is lamenting what happened to it... let's see what the people of berlin will nickname it... nothing good i guess...
the US has become a country on the defensive... not a beacon of light and hope and democracy it once was...
the worst is that people that want to leave iraq because it has become so bad can't go anywhere, they have to flee @ night over open border to syria or jordan to huge refugee camps that are so crowded that many leave for iraq shortly after arriving...
the least the "liberators" should do is take in anyone that fears for it's life because the ones responsible for the situation messed up, big time... but they DON'T...
we can always learn form history... even back in medieval people knew that torture will make everyone confess to things they have absolutely no idea about, what makes people today think that that basic human behavior has changed...
and laws are laws and make our society what it really is. and if those laws are broken, no matter for what reason, and much worse by the institutions that should uphold it, who will uphold the law if not the ones having to safeguard it...??? it's a chain of events, and if it's not broken it will not lead to good outcome...
we have ethics and moral, and if we apply to different sets of those standards just because we think there's a case for an exemption, where will it all end??? there's thnigs that can not be stopped and stop them from happening people have to work better and harder and have to communicate better...
in the case of 9/11 it became clear shortly after that the event could have been avoided if people would have listened to each other... there was/is absolutely no justification for torture, no matter what the circumstances are... it gives justification to the really bad states and people to do the same to us... only if we uphold our own standards we can ask others to do the same...
the same applies to CO2 emissions and all the other things like overfishing etc.
Sometimes one thing leads to another. This entire problem goes back to the mistaken impression our ambassador in Bagdad gave to Sadam Hussein back before he invaded Kuwait.
Iraq and Kuwait had border problems. Even before that Kuwait was part of old Iraq. Hussein thought that it should be part of Iraq now, and that Kuwait was drilling under Iraq's oilfields. When he probed our ambassador, he was told that we weren't going to get involved with border problems in that area.
He apparently took that to mean that he could do what he wanted, and so he did.
Once he invaded, he put a big troop buildup on saudi Arabia's border, threatening an invasion there, though it's unclear as to whether he would have actually done that.
After the war was over, the troops stationed in Saudi Arabia mostly left, but the Saudi's wanted enough troops left as a buffer against Iraq. The Saudi's have a much smaller population than does Iraq.
That didn't sit well with Bin Laden, who wanted to invade Iraq himself, but was turned down by the Saudi government who thought that it would be a waste.
Non Moslem troops in the Moslem Holy Land is what inspired the 9/11 tragedy. He has said many times since, that this will continue until ALL westerners, including those hired by the Saudi oil company, are removed from Saudi Arabia. As far as I'm concerned, that fine.
Another right wing religious movement gone astray.
Once you understand more events that lead to another event, you can better evaluate it.
i beg your pardon, but here in germany there's no security problem, hence no need to bunker in the embassy or living quarters... hence my remark about it. i didn't talk about kenia, sudan, iraq or afghanistan... i hope you know where germany is and what political system it has and what the country is like???
google US embassy berlin architecture, there's a good new york times article from 2004 on the topic, the embassy was finished this month... and the whole diplomatic community is lamenting what happened to it... let's see what the people of berlin will nickname it... nothing good i guess...
the US has become a country on the defensive... not a beacon of light and hope and democracy it once was...
the worst is that people that want to leave iraq because it has become so bad can't go anywhere, they have to flee @ night over open border to syria or jordan to huge refugee camps that are so crowded that many leave for iraq shortly after arriving...
the least the "liberators" should do is take in anyone that fears for it's life because the ones responsible for the situation messed up, big time... but they DON'T...
and i "overread" the naive remark...
i'm done with the topic...
And I hope you understand that threats have come against our embassies everywhere, not just in the middle East and Africa.
I know all about Germany, both past, and present. It's swung too far over to one side. now, you won't even perform your duties, because you're so afraid of going back to where you were before. I realize that, but it's a harsh world out there, you, of all people, should understand that.
your forgetting to mention that saudi-arabia is not a democracy and more a dictator run country... like most arabian states...
unfortunately this is not the first time the US is backing a system like that... so we're back to ethics and moral...
i'm outta here...
And what do you propose to do?
Where do you get your oil and gas? Europe has already had its run-in with Russia over that, another country returning to dictatorship. Merkel has hugged Putin as well as every other European head of state has, along with ours.
And Russia is just one supplier. The others are Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Iran, Nigeria, Venezuela, Qatar, and other friendly states. All supplying Europe.
You don't think you're supporting them? You don't think if they were threatened, Europe would go to prop them up?
As they say, "You can run away, but you can't hide".
Where do you get your oil and gas? Europe has already had its run-in with Russia over that, another country returning to dictatorship. Merkel has hugged Putin as well as every other European head of state has, along with ours.
And Russia is just one supplier. The others are Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Iran, Nigeria, Venezuela, Qatar, and other friendly states. All supplying Europe.
You don't think you're supporting them? You don't think if they were threatened, Europe would go to prop them up?
As they say, "You can run away, but you can't hide".
Mel, I usually agree with most of what you write on the forums, but I feel I have to take you to task over that comment. As someone who until very recently was living in Russia I can tell you that the vast majority of Russians don't feel that they are returning to a dictatorship and are fairly happy with their lot (they certainly seem a lot happier that most Americans that I met inside and outside of the States). Ask any Russian and they will tell you, don't judge us with Western eyes... democracy is different in every country.
The impression most of us get from the Western Media is vastly different to what it is really like to live there.
Personally I hate the grip that Big Oil has on us all and I can't wait for the day we can all use alternative fuels.. hydrogen FC, electric etc... for our needs.
F warrants. It's my opinion that the government can do whatever is necessary, warrant or not, to protect the population from the nut jobs we're dealing with now and tomorrow.
I literally got a chill down my spine when I read this. It's baffling how someone in this age of near unlimited access to information and free education could be so profoundly ignorant of the lessons provided by history time and time again.
What could possibly cause someone to so readily throw out all of the foundational principals that govern our democracy as laid forth in the Constitution? Does this person have no conceptual understanding of the importance of preserving that constitution? Does he not perceive the wisdom that underlies the Separation of Powers and the Bill of Rights? Does this person believe that such freedom and liberty comes about easily? Has he no respect for all of those who have died defending the very liberty that he so readily will give up in the pursuit of security. Were our ancestors so timid and fearful of the perennial threats they faced that they were willing to relinquish their rights and liberties for security?
Have some of use really become that insular to the tyranny and injustice in the world that we believe our country is immune and infallible? Or that our government is somehow different and would never abuse it's authority, so we should just give it free reign? Can you not perceive the consequences from that idea?
Here is a nice presentation by AI poster Winterspan:
Hello there Solipsism... I'm happy to see someone kept that graphic!
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead
Yes, I know what HSUPA is. The question is, if the network update involves rolling out HSUPA that implies that the previous speeds were HSDPA:
"The mobile operator and exclusive provider for Apple's iPhone in the US said the upgrades are results of recent network enhancements, including the deployment of High Speed Uplink Packet Access (HSUPA) technology across all existing 3G markets that is expected to be completed by the end of the month."
It's more complicated than just if a certain area has HSDPA and/or HSUPA. Depending on the technical details of the implementation of the technology, throughput speeds can very considerably. In this particular case, BOTH the before and after (average) speeds they quoted were using HSUPA. What they did was just increase the throughput for the pre-existing HSUPA technology in the towers. How they do that I don't know... maybe they just had to add more backhaul bandwidth from the towers to the backbone, or maybe they actually improved the switching/routing hardware in the towers. I'm not a network engineer so I don't know how any of this stuff works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh
Not to be sacreligious or anything, but I fail to see how 700kbps or 1.5Mbps either qualifies as 3G or will make a marked improvement over existing end-to-end EDGE performance.
I do understand that it is useful in markets where EDGE isn't available (including much of Europe and Asia)... but it still seems like an under-performing technology that won't make a huge improvement to browsing speed (processor limited), and will actually introduce new issues (latency, battery life, etc.).
Hmmm... Are you thinking that the 700kbp-1.5mbps numbers that you see correspond to the theoretical protocol speeds of HSUPA/HSDPA?? In this case, AT&T is quoting THE ACTUAL AVERAGE THROUGHPUT of their connections.
Often times, you will see people talk about 3G/HSDPA/HSUPA in terms of just theoretical speeds, like for HSDPA they will list either 1.8mbps, 3.6mbps, 7.2mbps, or 14.4mbps. But in reality, you will get NOWHERE NEAR this theoretical speed. In fact, there are hardly any devices on the market that can even support 7.2mbps HSDPA. Talk to anyone that has 3G from Telstra in Australia. I think they advertise that they have a 14.4mbps 3G network, but in reality users hardly get a 1mbps.
I can assure you that no matter what HSDPA/HSUPA network you are talking about, it will be much faster than EDGE. At least 3-5X faster, and usually more than that.
And no, HSDPA and HSUPA actually DECREASE latency as compared to EDGE.
Comments
It depends on who you speak to. Supposedly, it led to the capture of that guy a couple of years ago trying to come in through Canada.
But, as this is all secret, we only know what they want to tell us about any possible results.
Personally, I doubt it's done very much that's been helpful. Most security experts say that while it's probably led them to a few people who should be watched, and a couple of arrests like that guy I mentioned, if a terrorist group really wants to stay under the radar they could. The opposite to that is said that if this wasn't publicized, terrorists wouldn't know about it, and so wouldn't avoid it.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
yeah, and the only way to actually catch someone electronic means is to wiretap everyone and have machines do the selection... which means that everyones emails, surfing and IM's are monitored, constantly... no one can tell me that there's actually a judge asked for a warrant every time an email is checked or an IM account monitored... that's bullshit... and there's no mechanisms in place to make sure there's no abuse... who's monitoring the monitors... no one!!!
and it's not just the complacent ones that let this happen... it the politicians that said and did/do nothing...
there's still people being held in gitmo without seeing a judge, there still CIA flights worldwide to out of the country holding facilities so no judge every gets asked for a warrant... and the error rate is extremely high... if anyone of us got kidnapped, waterboarded and a few months/years later released in the middle of nowhere, what would you think of that country that is/was responsible for all that shit??? nothing good would go thru my mind...
We use soft water, they used hard water. Much more humane.
who is "we"..
and i think the topic is way to depressing to make jokes about it... so many cases of innocent people, mostly name mix-ups, have come to light, it's frightening!
who is "we"..
and i think the topic is way to depressing to make jokes about it... so many cases of innocent people, mostly name mix-ups, have come to light, it's frightening!
It is frightening, but I don't think this is the right forum to discuss it and I tend to make jokes about serious issues as a way of dealing with them.
It is frightening, but I don't think this is the right forum to discuss it and I tend to make jokes about serious issues as a way of dealing with them.
the thing with jokes is that it somehow tries to belittle the problem... this problem needs dealing with, i hope that the new administration will DEAL with it... and the rest of those wrong decisions...
the new embassy in berlin is like a fortress, like if it would be standing in baghdad... ridiculous...
the army dorms for GIs and their families have been sealed of from the german houses next to them, with 24h guards (private companies). the only thing that does it to create fear in everybody involved... there's a lot of GIs and their families that live in regular german houses and apartments, but those do not get the 24h security or a fence around their apartment... the whole thing is so out of touch with reality and the waste of tax payer money is so extreme.... i don't even want to know how much money is wasted on the "war on terror".
imagine what building schools and paying teachers with those sums could do in the countries that have problems with radicalized people... no one asks the question that needs to be asked, what can be done to change the situation... there's no plan, no concept... to kill people and send soldiers overseas has never worked... it only makes things worse...
the thing with jokes is that it somehow tries to belittle the problem... this problem needs dealing with
If you can convince me that it can be dealt with on an AI board that was originally about AT&T speed boosts I'll be more than happy to get all politically correct.
don't forget that iraq and the torturing of prisoners by the CIA and all those things a lot of people that had a moderated view on things actually changed their mind and were pushed into the terrorist direction... this is the typical thing, repressive regimes actually create their own enemies...
i hope those government officials have to endure "water boarding" once in their life...
water boarding was considered a war crime in WWII, and japanese soldiers actually got convicted by american military courts for committing those atrocities... but now it's OK to use it on others... what perverse logic is behind that??? i don't get it...
There's a logic to it, and I understand it, but that doesn't make it right.
A statement one of the major terrorists made several years ago was that this is what they wanted to see. They wanted us to become so afraid that we would fall into a police state. This administration has fallen into the trap. It's funny how the religious right in every country is so easily led.
It's hard to argue against this if some major event is known, but not enough is known to stop it. Extreme measures may be reasonable. But for everyday extraction of information, it's tough to justify. It also rarely works in the case of hardened people.
We have a pretty resilient society, even at the worst time, enough people here, including those in congress, have spoken out against it, and the courts ARE independent, they have ruled, almost 100% (including the Supreme Court, except in one instance) against the administration's use of this, and the methods they have wanted to use to try them. Even the military courts have resisted. One colonel was recently removed for resisting, and there is already an investigation of that.
It's a sad situation, but we'll come through it. You know the next administration will stop this cold, no matter who gets in.
If you can convince me that it can be dealt with on an AI board that was originally about AT&T speed boosts I'll be more than happy not to get all politically correct.
:-) i agree
There's a logic to it, and I understand it, but that doesn't make it right.
A statement one of the major terrorists made several years ago was that this is what they wanted to see. They wanted us to become so afraid that we would fall into a police state. This administration has fallen into the trap. It's funny how the religious right in every country is so easily led.
It's hard to argue against this if some major event is known, but not enough is known to stop it. Extreme measures may be reasonable. But for everyday extraction of information, it's tough to justify. It also rarely works in the case of hardened people.
We have a pretty resilient society, even at the worst time, enough people here, including those in congress, have spoken out against it, and the courts ARE independent, they have ruled, almost 100% (including the Supreme Court, except in one instance) against the administration's use of this, and the methods they have wanted to use to try them. Even the military courts have resisted. One colonel was recently removed for resisting, and there is already an investigation of that.
It's a sad situation, but we'll come through it. You know the next administration will stop this cold, no matter who gets in.
we can always learn form history... even back in medieval people knew that torture will make everyone confess to things they have absolutely no idea about, what makes people today think that that basic human behavior has changed...
and laws are laws and make our society what it really is. and if those laws are broken, no matter for what reason, and much worse by the institutions that should uphold it, who will uphold the law if not the ones having to safeguard it...??? it's a chain of events, and if it's not broken it will not lead to good outcome...
we have ethics and moral, and if we apply to different sets of those standards just because we think there's a case for an exemption, where will it all end??? there's thnigs that can not be stopped and stop them from happening people have to work better and harder and have to communicate better...
in the case of 9/11 it became clear shortly after that the event could have been avoided if people would have listened to each other... there was/is absolutely no justification for torture, no matter what the circumstances are... it gives justification to the really bad states and people to do the same to us... only if we uphold our own standards we can ask others to do the same...
the same applies to CO2 emissions and all the other things like overfishing etc.
the thing with jokes is that it somehow tries to belittle the problem... this problem needs dealing with, i hope that the new administration will DEAL with it... and the rest of those wrong decisions...
the new embassy in berlin is like a fortress, like if it would be standing in baghdad... ridiculous...
the army dorms for GIs and their families have been sealed of from the german houses next to them, with 24h guards (private companies). the only thing that does it to create fear in everybody involved... there's a lot of GIs and their families that live in regular german houses and apartments, but those do not get the 24h security or a fence around their apartment... the whole thing is so out of touch with reality and the waste of tax payer money is so extreme.... i don't even want to know how much money is wasted on the "war on terror".
imagine what building schools and paying teachers with those sums could do in the countries that have problems with radicalized people... no one asks the question that needs to be asked, what can be done to change the situation... there's no plan, no concept... to kill people and send soldiers overseas has never worked... it only makes things worse...
I don't agree that it's out of line. I think it's unfortunate it's come to this. But, we've seen car and truck bombs destroy our embassies around the world by terrorists. Protection is warranted.
Our personnel are also threatened. I'm sure the families of those in those countries would feel fine about having some of their members killed because we failed to protect our people. I'm sure they wouldn't blame us. Would they?
We can't spend the money in those radicalized countries, because they either have more than enough money already, such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, or don't want our money. These people are radicalized because of their own governments failing to supply what is needed. They are also often run by those who use this radicalization to stir up their people against "outside" influence. Several of these countries don't even allow aid organizations into their countries to help in time of major famine.
Your solution is a well meaning, but naive one.
I don't agree that it's out of line. I think it's unfortunate it's come to this. But, we've seen car and truck bombs destroy our embassies around the world by terrorists. Protection is warranted.
Our personnel are also threatened. I'm sure the families of those in those countries would feel fine about having some of their members killed because we failed to protect our people. I'm sure they wouldn't blame us. Would they?
We can't spend the money in those radicalized countries, because they either have more than enough money already, such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, or don't want our money. These people are radicalized because of their own governments failing to supply what is needed. They are also often run by those who use this radicalization to stir up their people against "outside" influence. Several of these countries don't even allow aid organizations into their countries to help in time of major famine.
Your solution is a well meaning, but naive one.
i beg your pardon, but here in germany there's no security problem, hence no need to bunker in the embassy or living quarters... hence my remark about it. i didn't talk about kenia, sudan, iraq or afghanistan... i hope you know where germany is and what political system it has and what the country is like???
google US embassy berlin architecture, there's a good new york times article from 2004 on the topic, the embassy was finished this month... and the whole diplomatic community is lamenting what happened to it... let's see what the people of berlin will nickname it... nothing good i guess...
the US has become a country on the defensive... not a beacon of light and hope and democracy it once was...
the worst is that people that want to leave iraq because it has become so bad can't go anywhere, they have to flee @ night over open border to syria or jordan to huge refugee camps that are so crowded that many leave for iraq shortly after arriving...
the least the "liberators" should do is take in anyone that fears for it's life because the ones responsible for the situation messed up, big time... but they DON'T...
and i "overread" the naive remark...
i'm done with the topic...
we can always learn form history... even back in medieval people knew that torture will make everyone confess to things they have absolutely no idea about, what makes people today think that that basic human behavior has changed...
and laws are laws and make our society what it really is. and if those laws are broken, no matter for what reason, and much worse by the institutions that should uphold it, who will uphold the law if not the ones having to safeguard it...??? it's a chain of events, and if it's not broken it will not lead to good outcome...
we have ethics and moral, and if we apply to different sets of those standards just because we think there's a case for an exemption, where will it all end??? there's thnigs that can not be stopped and stop them from happening people have to work better and harder and have to communicate better...
in the case of 9/11 it became clear shortly after that the event could have been avoided if people would have listened to each other... there was/is absolutely no justification for torture, no matter what the circumstances are... it gives justification to the really bad states and people to do the same to us... only if we uphold our own standards we can ask others to do the same...
the same applies to CO2 emissions and all the other things like overfishing etc.
Sometimes one thing leads to another. This entire problem goes back to the mistaken impression our ambassador in Bagdad gave to Sadam Hussein back before he invaded Kuwait.
Iraq and Kuwait had border problems. Even before that Kuwait was part of old Iraq. Hussein thought that it should be part of Iraq now, and that Kuwait was drilling under Iraq's oilfields. When he probed our ambassador, he was told that we weren't going to get involved with border problems in that area.
He apparently took that to mean that he could do what he wanted, and so he did.
Once he invaded, he put a big troop buildup on saudi Arabia's border, threatening an invasion there, though it's unclear as to whether he would have actually done that.
After the war was over, the troops stationed in Saudi Arabia mostly left, but the Saudi's wanted enough troops left as a buffer against Iraq. The Saudi's have a much smaller population than does Iraq.
That didn't sit well with Bin Laden, who wanted to invade Iraq himself, but was turned down by the Saudi government who thought that it would be a waste.
Non Moslem troops in the Moslem Holy Land is what inspired the 9/11 tragedy. He has said many times since, that this will continue until ALL westerners, including those hired by the Saudi oil company, are removed from Saudi Arabia. As far as I'm concerned, that fine.
Another right wing religious movement gone astray.
Once you understand more events that lead to another event, you can better evaluate it.
unfortunately this is not the first time the US is backing a system like that... so we're back to ethics and moral...
i'm outta here...
i beg your pardon, but here in germany there's no security problem, hence no need to bunker in the embassy or living quarters... hence my remark about it. i didn't talk about kenia, sudan, iraq or afghanistan... i hope you know where germany is and what political system it has and what the country is like???
google US embassy berlin architecture, there's a good new york times article from 2004 on the topic, the embassy was finished this month... and the whole diplomatic community is lamenting what happened to it... let's see what the people of berlin will nickname it... nothing good i guess...
the US has become a country on the defensive... not a beacon of light and hope and democracy it once was...
the worst is that people that want to leave iraq because it has become so bad can't go anywhere, they have to flee @ night over open border to syria or jordan to huge refugee camps that are so crowded that many leave for iraq shortly after arriving...
the least the "liberators" should do is take in anyone that fears for it's life because the ones responsible for the situation messed up, big time... but they DON'T...
and i "overread" the naive remark...
i'm done with the topic...
And I hope you understand that threats have come against our embassies everywhere, not just in the middle East and Africa.
I know all about Germany, both past, and present. It's swung too far over to one side. now, you won't even perform your duties, because you're so afraid of going back to where you were before. I realize that, but it's a harsh world out there, you, of all people, should understand that.
your forgetting to mention that saudi-arabia is not a democracy and more a dictator run country... like most arabian states...
unfortunately this is not the first time the US is backing a system like that... so we're back to ethics and moral...
i'm outta here...
And what do you propose to do?
Where do you get your oil and gas? Europe has already had its run-in with Russia over that, another country returning to dictatorship. Merkel has hugged Putin as well as every other European head of state has, along with ours.
And Russia is just one supplier. The others are Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Iran, Nigeria, Venezuela, Qatar, and other friendly states. All supplying Europe.
You don't think you're supporting them? You don't think if they were threatened, Europe would go to prop them up?
As they say, "You can run away, but you can't hide".
And what do you propose to do?
Where do you get your oil and gas? Europe has already had its run-in with Russia over that, another country returning to dictatorship. Merkel has hugged Putin as well as every other European head of state has, along with ours.
And Russia is just one supplier. The others are Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Iran, Nigeria, Venezuela, Qatar, and other friendly states. All supplying Europe.
You don't think you're supporting them? You don't think if they were threatened, Europe would go to prop them up?
As they say, "You can run away, but you can't hide".
Mel, I usually agree with most of what you write on the forums, but I feel I have to take you to task over that comment. As someone who until very recently was living in Russia I can tell you that the vast majority of Russians don't feel that they are returning to a dictatorship and are fairly happy with their lot (they certainly seem a lot happier that most Americans that I met inside and outside of the States). Ask any Russian and they will tell you, don't judge us with Western eyes... democracy is different in every country.
The impression most of us get from the Western Media is vastly different to what it is really like to live there.
Personally I hate the grip that Big Oil has on us all and I can't wait for the day we can all use alternative fuels.. hydrogen FC, electric etc... for our needs.
Byte = 8 bits
kb or kbit = kilobit = 1000 bits
kB or KB or KByte = kilobyte = 1,000 Bytes
MB or MByte = megabyte = 1000 kB or 1,000,000 Bytes
Kbps = kilobits per second
KBps = kilobytes per second
MBps = megabytes per second
Convert bits to bytes:
number of bits / 8 bits = number of bytes
www.appleinsider.com quoted Upgraded AT&T 3G Speeds:
DOWNLOAD:
700 Kbps = 87.5 KBps (kilobytes per second) & .09 MBps (megabytes per second)
A 1MB file takes 11 seconds to download, and a 4 MB file/song will take 44 seconds to download.
1.7 Mbps = 212.5 (kilobytes per second) & .21 MBps (megabytes per second)
A 1MB file takes 4.76 seconds to download, and a 4 MB file/song will take 19 seconds to download.
UPLOAD:
500 Kbps = 62.5 KBps (kilobytes per second) & .06 MBps (megabytes per second)
A 1MB file takes 16 seconds to upload, and a 4 MB file/song will take 67 seconds to upload.
1.2 Mbps = 150 (kilobytes per second) & .15 MBps (megabytes per second)
A 1MB file takes 6.6 seconds to upload, and a 4 MB file/song will take 27 seconds to upload.
Please check my math.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_device_bandwidths
If I'm correct, enjoy!
P.S. Stop the off topic BS! Please!
F warrants. It's my opinion that the government can do whatever is necessary, warrant or not, to protect the population from the nut jobs we're dealing with now and tomorrow.
I literally got a chill down my spine when I read this. It's baffling how someone in this age of near unlimited access to information and free education could be so profoundly ignorant of the lessons provided by history time and time again.
What could possibly cause someone to so readily throw out all of the foundational principals that govern our democracy as laid forth in the Constitution? Does this person have no conceptual understanding of the importance of preserving that constitution? Does he not perceive the wisdom that underlies the Separation of Powers and the Bill of Rights? Does this person believe that such freedom and liberty comes about easily? Has he no respect for all of those who have died defending the very liberty that he so readily will give up in the pursuit of security. Were our ancestors so timid and fearful of the perennial threats they faced that they were willing to relinquish their rights and liberties for security?
Have some of use really become that insular to the tyranny and injustice in the world that we believe our country is immune and infallible? Or that our government is somehow different and would never abuse it's authority, so we should just give it free reign? Can you not perceive the consequences from that idea?
Here is a nice presentation by AI poster Winterspan:
Hello there Solipsism... I'm happy to see someone kept that graphic!
Yes, I know what HSUPA is. The question is, if the network update involves rolling out HSUPA that implies that the previous speeds were HSDPA:
"The mobile operator and exclusive provider for Apple's iPhone in the US said the upgrades are results of recent network enhancements, including the deployment of High Speed Uplink Packet Access (HSUPA) technology across all existing 3G markets that is expected to be completed by the end of the month."
It's more complicated than just if a certain area has HSDPA and/or HSUPA. Depending on the technical details of the implementation of the technology, throughput speeds can very considerably. In this particular case, BOTH the before and after (average) speeds they quoted were using HSUPA. What they did was just increase the throughput for the pre-existing HSUPA technology in the towers. How they do that I don't know... maybe they just had to add more backhaul bandwidth from the towers to the backbone, or maybe they actually improved the switching/routing hardware in the towers. I'm not a network engineer so I don't know how any of this stuff works.
Not to be sacreligious or anything, but I fail to see how 700kbps or 1.5Mbps either qualifies as 3G or will make a marked improvement over existing end-to-end EDGE performance.
I do understand that it is useful in markets where EDGE isn't available (including much of Europe and Asia)... but it still seems like an under-performing technology that won't make a huge improvement to browsing speed (processor limited), and will actually introduce new issues (latency, battery life, etc.).
Hmmm... Are you thinking that the 700kbp-1.5mbps numbers that you see correspond to the theoretical protocol speeds of HSUPA/HSDPA?? In this case, AT&T is quoting THE ACTUAL AVERAGE THROUGHPUT of their connections.
Often times, you will see people talk about 3G/HSDPA/HSUPA in terms of just theoretical speeds, like for HSDPA they will list either 1.8mbps, 3.6mbps, 7.2mbps, or 14.4mbps. But in reality, you will get NOWHERE NEAR this theoretical speed. In fact, there are hardly any devices on the market that can even support 7.2mbps HSDPA. Talk to anyone that has 3G from Telstra in Australia. I think they advertise that they have a 14.4mbps 3G network, but in reality users hardly get a 1mbps.
I can assure you that no matter what HSDPA/HSUPA network you are talking about, it will be much faster than EDGE. At least 3-5X faster, and usually more than that.
And no, HSDPA and HSUPA actually DECREASE latency as compared to EDGE.
Here in Germany we already have 1.4mbit up, and 7.2mbit down.
Same speeds in Spain. I guess that more or less all Europe evolves at the same speed when it comes to cellphone data speeds.
HSUPA provides uplink speeds of up to 5.76mbit/s. Here in Germany we already have 1.4mbit up, and 7.2mbit down.
Same speeds in Spain. I guess that more or less all Europe evolves at the same speed when it comes to cellphone data speeds.
Are you saying that you can get average data rates of 7.2Mbps/1.4Mbps on a 3G cell phone when you test the throughput? I am highly doubtful of that.