My actual opinion only requires a minor modification to the headline:
Ballmer, YOU can buy Vista and downgrade to XP for free
What a week for the world's only real chairman - first Mossberg discovers the Dock in Windows 7 (lady: "this is something we are copying on, cannot talk about it") and mentions the iPhone a hundred times while Ballmer's Valkyrie demonstrates a million ways to get finger grease on a vertical touch screen (to do such important things as playing a one-octave piano, operate a bad copy of MacPaint or shuffle and twist around a few images without any obvious concept at all) - and now he has to advertise his current OS by throwing in an almost 7 year old one... It is great when this happens to someone who deserves it soooo much.
Ballmer you stupid F@#$! The only reason I have vista is for MyMovies , and the only reason I recieved Vista is because i bought a mac and installed your usage tracking thing on my pc for 90 days, after which I got Vista for free. Oh- and I dont use the pc anymore.
when a pc building guy like me switches, you guys are screwed!!!
Seems that they forgot to mention that you can only downgrade if you have a system with an OEM copy of Vista.
If you buy Vista, then you cannot downgrade to XP. So, it seems that the way it was worded is essentially a lie. You cannot buy Vista and downgrade to XP. But, you can buy a new computer and downgrade to XP. That's a pretty big difference.
I'm new to this. I just bought a low cost Compaq laptop with Vista Home on it.
It doesn't have any discs, so how exactly do you "downgrade" to XP?
Think Apple can do no wrong? Remember that every time Mail.app changes people are upset. Remember the MacOS 9 to OS X transition? People complain about everything new and different, change might be good, but humans aren't so good at accepting it.
We put up with a heck of lot more than that.
Motorola 68000 > PPC > Intel
NuBus > PCI/AGP & variations > PCI various flavors
ADB > USB > USB 2 (very late) NB PC users got serial-USB adaptors to ease them over the transition.
No Hard Drives > SCSI > ATA/ATAPI/SATA/eSATA > FW400 (sometimes) > FW400/FW800 (sometimes)
No CDS > CDs Apple Only > CDs No CDR or CDRW > DVDs (sometimes) DVDRW (sometimes) > CDRW/DVDRW > CDRW/DVDRW ignored by iMove
800kb Floppies > 1.44 Mb floppies (very late) > No Floppies & no output devices > CDR
16 bit naming > 32 bit naming > 256 bit naming (very very late)
Various Apple font encodings > Unicode (very very very late)
Original MacOS > System 7 > OS9 > OSX (in all its flavors)
Even now in OSX there is so much that is not long term compatible. Whereas Windows users get long term support for QuickTime and iTunes, Apple users must have the latest or find the unique set of versions that run only with their Mac/OS.
Each step forward has initially been quite a step backwards for users, and the progress has been made at the users' (considerable) expense.
Ignoring the one eyed views often expressed here, THAT is why a lot of Windows users have looked at us as irrational Apple serfs.
And what has worked right through all of this right up to Leopard? AppleWorks! Which Apple has discarded.
You know, "downgrade" is a relatively recent word. The appropriate real word should be "degrade."
So, how does this sound, "Buy Vista and Degrade to XP for Free!" A little more enlightening about Microsoft's current direction, huh?
I wonder if this is going to cause a chain reaction where people fall down the Rabbit Hole and degrade from XP to 2000 to ME to 98 to 95 and all the way back to the glory days of Windows 3.0, distributed on a stack of floppies, which was described as "an awesome Solitaire game with some file management tools."
As far as his retirement is concerned, how's he going to put it, "I'm stepping down to spend more time with my empty nest?" That must be one fouled-up family where the multi-billionaire dad times his retirement to coincide with his kids leaving.
Impressive list, but every one of Apple's moves you mentioned were improvements! All of them made Macs more compatible with the world at large so using a Mac became more cost-effective.
Also, many of these were driven by the changes in technology that were beyond Apple's influence.
It sounds like Vista was a change for change's sake and a large number of people think it was a degradation. I think Apple's most visible fuck-up like that was iMovie '08 ( I, like many others, liked iMovie HD (aka '06) just fine and Apple was forced to provide us a path to have both on our machines.)
So, there's a difference between change and improvement. I wish Barack Obama would have a message of improvement rather than change. One change in our Iraq policy would be to turn it into an American colony/commonwealth/ territory/protectorate, etc., but that wouldn't be an improvement.
[QUOTE=gastroboy;1259938]We put up with a heck of lot more than that.
Motorola 68000 > PPC > Intel
NuBus > PCI/AGP & variations > PCI various flavors
ADB > USB > USB 2 (very late) NB PC users got serial-USB adaptors to ease them over the transition.
No Hard Drives > SCSI > ATA/ATAPI/SATA/eSATA > FW400 (sometimes) > FW400/FW800 (sometimes)
No CDS > CDs Apple Only > CDs No CDR or CDRW > DVDs (sometimes) DVDRW (sometimes) > CDRW/DVDRW > CDRW/DVDRW ignored by iMove
800kb Floppies > 1.44 Mb floppies (very late) > No Floppies & no output devices > CDR
????
? and each time these up-grades happened, and I waited 30 days or so to up-grade, my office / business was NEVER DOWN, because of the up-grade. I was not able to use my Mac each day without any issues (or at least nothing a few minutes didn't fix)
Lucky ? maybe, but I think it appears we Mac folks, have been blessed (So far) with the best OS.
Can we expect issue to crop up with each new OS - unless we are day dreaming, you better be prepared. Each computer and it's user are different, and Apple can not possibly check each combination of computer, with each different software combination ? which is why they (and most other companies) have beta testers.
Shiiit IS going to happen, it's what the company does when it does. How fast they fix it, come up with a patch.
Like the old saying goes "if you can do better, then do it" "if not, then learn to live with what you have" - not sure of the quote, but I'm sure you get the point.
I HATE the fact that Adobe purchased MacroMedia, and is not going to upgrade Freehand, but I get by. I have choices and I live with which ones I make.
I have an Intel Mac running 10.4.11 and will not like up-grade this computer, not at least, until I can do with Illustrator (as fast) what I can do with Freehand.
So that I get to use / play with the latest OS, I purchased a 17" MBP. So I have the best of both world. I computer running without isses, and one to play with, and see what I like - dislike about the newest OS.
Why is this man still the CEO of Microsoft? Why hasn't the board of directors ejected his ass? Why haven't the shareholders revolted and started a movement to do so? He's been given more than enough time to demonstrate his inability to lead the company successfully.
This is what happens when you grow too many tentacles: there isn't enough blood going to your brain. They need the kind of blood transfusion Steve Jobs gave Apple upon his return. Ballmer, Ray Ozzie, and Bill Gates should be escorted out of the building. All middle managers fired. All projects not integral to the core business of selling software and services to businesses and consumers terminated or spun off.
I want to see Microsoft thrive. They do turn some great products, and their R&D churns great technology. They can still play a significant, enriching role in the industry.
I'm new to this. I just bought a low cost Compaq laptop with Vista Home on it.
It doesn't have any discs, so how exactly do you "downgrade" to XP?
Only Vista Business and Vista Ultimate come with the downgrade rights. Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium do not.
As for the installation media... You have to find a valid copy of the XP disc to do the downgrade.
If the installation media has been used previously to install XP on a different machine, then product activation will not happen automatically; instead, you'll have to call a 1-800 number, at which point the customer service representative will verify that you really do have an OEM license for Vista Ultimate or Business, and then you'll be guided through the manual product activation process over the telephone.
Of course they can. Microsoft owns the business market. Name one major corporation that doesn't rely on Exchange servers, Office, Outlook, etc.
And so what if some people dislike Vista? All those "IT professionals," bloggers, etc. make up an extremely vocal minority. The vast majority of Vista users have no issues with it, and this is how it works with every Windows release. Just like when XP came out, it was fine for the vast majority of people, but a few claimed (incorrectly) that 98 was better.
Just so folks know, my question was 'hypothetical' and the "can MS survive the next 9 to 10 years" was only a play on the fact that Ballmer would still be in charge for the next 9 to 10 years. As in can MS survive Ballmer?! Do I think MS will be around in 10 years. You bet. Will it have the clout it had in the 90's, doubt it, unless some drastic changes occur.
Ballmer does not seem to be a very good CEO to manage MS and MS itself has gotten away from their roots of creator of an OS with their own select brand of apps to a company that has their hands in too many areas because they see other companies making money off it, such as X-Box, the Zune & Marketplace, and who knows, their mobile OS on other manufacturers phones to, and you know they got to be thinking about it, the MSphone... Microsoft should stick to what they think they do best and put out a "superior" update be it to the OS or an app, as currently, MS is the jack of all trades but master of none!
Seems that they forgot to mention that you can only downgrade if you have a system with an OEM copy of Vista.
If you buy Vista, then you cannot downgrade to XP. So, it seems that the way it was worded is essentially a lie. You cannot buy Vista and downgrade to XP. But, you can buy a new computer and downgrade to XP. That's a pretty big difference.
And by the looks of it it has to have Vista Business or Vista Ultimate.... Man I love the Bait and switch on this one.
So, there's a difference between change and improvement. I wish Barack Obama would have a message of improvement rather than change. One change in our Iraq policy would be to turn it into an American colony/commonwealth/ territory/protectorate, etc., but that wouldn't be an improvement.
I wish when Obama speaks, he says something!
Good grief, don't make Iraq an American colony/commonwealth/territory/protectorate, etc. cuz THEN THE DEMOCRATS AND ENVIRONMENTALISTS WON'T LET THEM DRILL FOR OIL!
I can't believe the article and comments don't use the word "beleaguered". You guys are slacking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave
Impressive list, but every one of Apple's moves you mentioned were improvements! All of them made Macs more compatible with the world at large so using a Mac became more cost-effective.
While I'd agree that most were improvements, how did going from 68000 to PPC improve compatibility with the world at large?
Impressive list, but every one of Apple's moves you mentioned were improvements! All of them made Macs more compatible with the world at large so using a Mac became more cost-effective.
I will repeat:
"Each step forward has initially been quite a step backwards for users, and the progress has been made at the users' (considerable) expense."
Quote:
Also, many of these were driven by the changes in technology that were beyond Apple's influence.
Oh what rubbish! They were not beyond Apple's influence. They were Apple's choices and each time we were fed a line about how clever Apple was making them.
Quote:
It sounds like Vista was a change for change's sake and a large number of people think it was a degradation. I think Apple's most visible fuck-up like that was iMovie '08 ( I, like many others, liked iMovie HD (aka '06) just fine and Apple was forced to provide us a path to have both on our machines.)
Please explain how it is necessary and good to have to use 2 separate applications to perform a task that one should be doing if it hadn't been sabotaged by Apple. I've been an Apple user for almost 25 years now but I am not oblivious to how Apple careers all over the landscape, because it can get away with it, and always have the starry eyed Mac users applauding on the sideline their brilliant driving.
Quote:
So, there's a difference between change and improvement. I wish Barack Obama would have a message of improvement rather than change. One change in our Iraq policy would be to turn it into an American colony/commonwealth/ territory/protectorate, etc., but that wouldn't be an improvement.
Wish I could follow this line of argument, but I can't! Sorry! And I do hope Obama gets a chance to make a difference before some "loyal", "right-thinking", "freedom-loving" American shoots him.
And you are not allowed to offend the great American people by saying that is how things have been done for the last 238 years.
Only Vista Business and Vista Ultimate come with the downgrade rights. Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium do not.
As for the installation media... You have to find a valid copy of the XP disc to do the downgrade.
If the installation media has been used previously to install XP on a different machine, then product activation will not happen automatically; instead, you'll have to call a 1-800 number, at which point the customer service representative will verify that you really do have an OEM license for Vista Ultimate or Business, and then you'll be guided through the manual product activation process over the telephone.
Thanks for the good oil.
I had to buy it for my Ski Club's accounts software, I'd have much rather got a MacBook and used Boot Camp but they wouldn't let me and with the price difference it was an argument I couldn't win.
I can get a copy of XP from my brother but will run Vista Home Basic for a stretch to see just how good/bad it is.
Comments
Ballmer, YOU can buy Vista and downgrade to XP for free
What a week for the world's only real chairman - first Mossberg discovers the Dock in Windows 7 (lady: "this is something we are copying on, cannot talk about it") and mentions the iPhone a hundred times while Ballmer's Valkyrie demonstrates a million ways to get finger grease on a vertical touch screen (to do such important things as playing a one-octave piano, operate a bad copy of MacPaint or shuffle and twist around a few images without any obvious concept at all) - and now he has to advertise his current OS by throwing in an almost 7 year old one... It is great when this happens to someone who deserves it soooo much.
ahAHAHahahaHAHAhahAHAhahahahahAAAHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaa!
Ballmer you stupid F@#$! The only reason I have vista is for MyMovies , and the only reason I recieved Vista is because i bought a mac and installed your usage tracking thing on my pc for 90 days, after which I got Vista for free. Oh- and I dont use the pc anymore.
when a pc building guy like me switches, you guys are screwed!!!
Seems that they forgot to mention that you can only downgrade if you have a system with an OEM copy of Vista.
If you buy Vista, then you cannot downgrade to XP. So, it seems that the way it was worded is essentially a lie. You cannot buy Vista and downgrade to XP. But, you can buy a new computer and downgrade to XP. That's a pretty big difference.
I'm new to this. I just bought a low cost Compaq laptop with Vista Home on it.
It doesn't have any discs, so how exactly do you "downgrade" to XP?
Think Apple can do no wrong? Remember that every time Mail.app changes people are upset. Remember the MacOS 9 to OS X transition? People complain about everything new and different, change might be good, but humans aren't so good at accepting it.
We put up with a heck of lot more than that.
Motorola 68000 > PPC > Intel
NuBus > PCI/AGP & variations > PCI various flavors
ADB > USB > USB 2 (very late) NB PC users got serial-USB adaptors to ease them over the transition.
No Hard Drives > SCSI > ATA/ATAPI/SATA/eSATA > FW400 (sometimes) > FW400/FW800 (sometimes)
No CDS > CDs Apple Only > CDs No CDR or CDRW > DVDs (sometimes) DVDRW (sometimes) > CDRW/DVDRW > CDRW/DVDRW ignored by iMove
800kb Floppies > 1.44 Mb floppies (very late) > No Floppies & no output devices > CDR
16 bit naming > 32 bit naming > 256 bit naming (very very late)
Various Apple font encodings > Unicode (very very very late)
Original MacOS > System 7 > OS9 > OSX (in all its flavors)
Even now in OSX there is so much that is not long term compatible. Whereas Windows users get long term support for QuickTime and iTunes, Apple users must have the latest or find the unique set of versions that run only with their Mac/OS.
Each step forward has initially been quite a step backwards for users, and the progress has been made at the users' (considerable) expense.
Ignoring the one eyed views often expressed here, THAT is why a lot of Windows users have looked at us as irrational Apple serfs.
And what has worked right through all of this right up to Leopard? AppleWorks! Which Apple has discarded.
So, how does this sound, "Buy Vista and Degrade to XP for Free!" A little more enlightening about Microsoft's current direction, huh?
I wonder if this is going to cause a chain reaction where people fall down the Rabbit Hole and degrade from XP to 2000 to ME to 98 to 95 and all the way back to the glory days of Windows 3.0, distributed on a stack of floppies, which was described as "an awesome Solitaire game with some file management tools."
As far as his retirement is concerned, how's he going to put it, "I'm stepping down to spend more time with my empty nest?" That must be one fouled-up family where the multi-billionaire dad times his retirement to coincide with his kids leaving.
We put up with a heck of lot more than that.
Motorola 68000 > PPC > Intel
etc.
Impressive list, but every one of Apple's moves you mentioned were improvements! All of them made Macs more compatible with the world at large so using a Mac became more cost-effective.
Also, many of these were driven by the changes in technology that were beyond Apple's influence.
It sounds like Vista was a change for change's sake and a large number of people think it was a degradation. I think Apple's most visible fuck-up like that was iMovie '08 ( I, like many others, liked iMovie HD (aka '06) just fine and Apple was forced to provide us a path to have both on our machines.)
So, there's a difference between change and improvement. I wish Barack Obama would have a message of improvement rather than change. One change in our Iraq policy would be to turn it into an American colony/commonwealth/ territory/protectorate, etc., but that wouldn't be an improvement.
Ballmer looked genuinely furious for a second but managed to keep his cool.
You mean:
Ballmer looked genuinely scared for a while but managed to keep from crapping his pants.
Motorola 68000 > PPC > Intel
NuBus > PCI/AGP & variations > PCI various flavors
ADB > USB > USB 2 (very late) NB PC users got serial-USB adaptors to ease them over the transition.
No Hard Drives > SCSI > ATA/ATAPI/SATA/eSATA > FW400 (sometimes) > FW400/FW800 (sometimes)
No CDS > CDs Apple Only > CDs No CDR or CDRW > DVDs (sometimes) DVDRW (sometimes) > CDRW/DVDRW > CDRW/DVDRW ignored by iMove
800kb Floppies > 1.44 Mb floppies (very late) > No Floppies & no output devices > CDR
????
? and each time these up-grades happened, and I waited 30 days or so to up-grade, my office / business was NEVER DOWN, because of the up-grade. I was not able to use my Mac each day without any issues (or at least nothing a few minutes didn't fix)
Lucky ? maybe, but I think it appears we Mac folks, have been blessed (So far) with the best OS.
Can we expect issue to crop up with each new OS - unless we are day dreaming, you better be prepared. Each computer and it's user are different, and Apple can not possibly check each combination of computer, with each different software combination ? which is why they (and most other companies) have beta testers.
Shiiit IS going to happen, it's what the company does when it does. How fast they fix it, come up with a patch.
Like the old saying goes "if you can do better, then do it" "if not, then learn to live with what you have" - not sure of the quote, but I'm sure you get the point.
I HATE the fact that Adobe purchased MacroMedia, and is not going to upgrade Freehand, but I get by. I have choices and I live with which ones I make.
I have an Intel Mac running 10.4.11 and will not like up-grade this computer, not at least, until I can do with Illustrator (as fast) what I can do with Freehand.
So that I get to use / play with the latest OS, I purchased a 17" MBP. So I have the best of both world. I computer running without isses, and one to play with, and see what I like - dislike about the newest OS.
Life is good
Skip
When's the next service pack? Dumb-asses.
me
This is what happens when you grow too many tentacles: there isn't enough blood going to your brain. They need the kind of blood transfusion Steve Jobs gave Apple upon his return. Ballmer, Ray Ozzie, and Bill Gates should be escorted out of the building. All middle managers fired. All projects not integral to the core business of selling software and services to businesses and consumers terminated or spun off.
I want to see Microsoft thrive. They do turn some great products, and their R&D churns great technology. They can still play a significant, enriching role in the industry.
I'm new to this. I just bought a low cost Compaq laptop with Vista Home on it.
It doesn't have any discs, so how exactly do you "downgrade" to XP?
Only Vista Business and Vista Ultimate come with the downgrade rights. Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium do not.
As for the installation media... You have to find a valid copy of the XP disc to do the downgrade.
If the installation media has been used previously to install XP on a different machine, then product activation will not happen automatically; instead, you'll have to call a 1-800 number, at which point the customer service representative will verify that you really do have an OEM license for Vista Ultimate or Business, and then you'll be guided through the manual product activation process over the telephone.
Of course they can. Microsoft owns the business market. Name one major corporation that doesn't rely on Exchange servers, Office, Outlook, etc...
G*neral El*ctric.
They use those products of course, but we've long since given up on "relying" on them...
PS -- I can see a great "I'm a Mac... and I'm a PC" commercial coming out of this...
Of course they can. Microsoft owns the business market. Name one major corporation that doesn't rely on Exchange servers, Office, Outlook, etc.
And so what if some people dislike Vista? All those "IT professionals," bloggers, etc. make up an extremely vocal minority. The vast majority of Vista users have no issues with it, and this is how it works with every Windows release. Just like when XP came out, it was fine for the vast majority of people, but a few claimed (incorrectly) that 98 was better.
Just so folks know, my question was 'hypothetical' and the "can MS survive the next 9 to 10 years" was only a play on the fact that Ballmer would still be in charge for the next 9 to 10 years. As in can MS survive Ballmer?! Do I think MS will be around in 10 years. You bet. Will it have the clout it had in the 90's, doubt it, unless some drastic changes occur.
Ballmer does not seem to be a very good CEO to manage MS and MS itself has gotten away from their roots of creator of an OS with their own select brand of apps to a company that has their hands in too many areas because they see other companies making money off it, such as X-Box, the Zune & Marketplace, and who knows, their mobile OS on other manufacturers phones to, and you know they got to be thinking about it, the MSphone... Microsoft should stick to what they think they do best and put out a "superior" update be it to the OS or an app, as currently, MS is the jack of all trades but master of none!
Seems that they forgot to mention that you can only downgrade if you have a system with an OEM copy of Vista.
If you buy Vista, then you cannot downgrade to XP. So, it seems that the way it was worded is essentially a lie. You cannot buy Vista and downgrade to XP. But, you can buy a new computer and downgrade to XP. That's a pretty big difference.
And by the looks of it it has to have Vista Business or Vista Ultimate.... Man I love the Bait and switch on this one.
So, there's a difference between change and improvement. I wish Barack Obama would have a message of improvement rather than change. One change in our Iraq policy would be to turn it into an American colony/commonwealth/ territory/protectorate, etc., but that wouldn't be an improvement.
I wish when Obama speaks, he says something!
Good grief, don't make Iraq an American colony/commonwealth/territory/protectorate, etc. cuz THEN THE DEMOCRATS AND ENVIRONMENTALISTS WON'T LET THEM DRILL FOR OIL!
Impressive list, but every one of Apple's moves you mentioned were improvements! All of them made Macs more compatible with the world at large so using a Mac became more cost-effective.
While I'd agree that most were improvements, how did going from 68000 to PPC improve compatibility with the world at large?
Impressive list, but every one of Apple's moves you mentioned were improvements! All of them made Macs more compatible with the world at large so using a Mac became more cost-effective.
I will repeat:
"Each step forward has initially been quite a step backwards for users, and the progress has been made at the users' (considerable) expense."
Also, many of these were driven by the changes in technology that were beyond Apple's influence.
Oh what rubbish! They were not beyond Apple's influence. They were Apple's choices and each time we were fed a line about how clever Apple was making them.
It sounds like Vista was a change for change's sake and a large number of people think it was a degradation. I think Apple's most visible fuck-up like that was iMovie '08 ( I, like many others, liked iMovie HD (aka '06) just fine and Apple was forced to provide us a path to have both on our machines.)
Please explain how it is necessary and good to have to use 2 separate applications to perform a task that one should be doing if it hadn't been sabotaged by Apple. I've been an Apple user for almost 25 years now but I am not oblivious to how Apple careers all over the landscape, because it can get away with it, and always have the starry eyed Mac users applauding on the sideline their brilliant driving.
So, there's a difference between change and improvement. I wish Barack Obama would have a message of improvement rather than change. One change in our Iraq policy would be to turn it into an American colony/commonwealth/ territory/protectorate, etc., but that wouldn't be an improvement.
Wish I could follow this line of argument, but I can't! Sorry! And I do hope Obama gets a chance to make a difference before some "loyal", "right-thinking", "freedom-loving" American shoots him.
And you are not allowed to offend the great American people by saying that is how things have been done for the last 238 years.
Only Vista Business and Vista Ultimate come with the downgrade rights. Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium do not.
As for the installation media... You have to find a valid copy of the XP disc to do the downgrade.
If the installation media has been used previously to install XP on a different machine, then product activation will not happen automatically; instead, you'll have to call a 1-800 number, at which point the customer service representative will verify that you really do have an OEM license for Vista Ultimate or Business, and then you'll be guided through the manual product activation process over the telephone.
Thanks for the good oil.
I had to buy it for my Ski Club's accounts software, I'd have much rather got a MacBook and used Boot Camp but they wouldn't let me and with the price difference it was an argument I couldn't win.
I can get a copy of XP from my brother but will run Vista Home Basic for a stretch to see just how good/bad it is.