The original agreement was a 5 year exclusive with ATT which included revenue sharing. The question is whether that has been revised along with the revenue sharing amendment. I would think it isn't. In my mind, the point of the five year contract as apple saw it was to get to LTE, the CDMA chipset is more expensive and doesn't cross national borders well since a majority of the rest of the world is on GSM. With LTE Verizon and ATT are on the same platform as is the rest of the world, and I'd bet they go carrier-agnostic at that point. LTE is supposed to be 2012, probably more like 2013-2014 from what I'm hearing.
With the emergence of Android as what looks to be a decent operating system the world has changed a little bit from when the iPhone was launched. Now Apple needs to get as many phones into as many hands as possible, which means they need ATT to be incentivized to sell as many of the phones as possible to establish dominance as a platform which also entails developing the iPhone ecosystem etc.
Looking at the math, rumor was that Apple took $10 in ARPU for each iPhone customer, so in essence they took $240 over the contract of a customer. I'd assume that the subsidy that ATT gives is about that much now, and if I made a bet, contractually they have to give that much because Apple wants the guarantee that the iPhone would be competitive with every other smartphone that comes out. ATT is making the bet that iPhone customers won't by a new iPhone every 2 years and that even if they do they'll stay with ATT service (the cost to retain a customer is less than the cost to acquire a new customer to your service) and therefore they come out ahead.
Apple was really challenging the status quo with the revenue sharing deal before, now they've fallen in line with the rest of the industry which in my mind is not unexpected. There's more to this than I've outlined where the handset manufacturers are likely to have more power in the future years, but I'll save that for another diatribe.
I wrote this quickly, I apologize if there are non-sequiters (sp) or gaps that I don't fully explain
WTF! Apple, I been waiting a year to get an iphone, so now I have to stand in line for 8 hours hoping when I get to the counter that they are not sold out or the store is closing, I dont think so, what were you thinging when dropping sales from the Apple online store? that is the worst idea ever.
so what is the next best phone out there since it looks like i can not get an iphone.
I just really want Verizon to stop making its users buy their "iPhone killers" and start simply supporting the iPhone. I really don't like AT&T's service and it doesn't get any reception in my apartment while my Verizon phone gets full bars.
I know that Verizon is on a different network so it's not that easy to get iPhone to play nice with it, but can anyone imagine the millions of $$$ it would pay off if Verizon would get the iPhone already? I know it would have my $199...
WTF! Apple, I been waiting a year to get an iphone, so now I have to stand in line for 8 hours hoping when I get to the counter that they are not sold out or the store is closing, I dont think so, what were you thinging when dropping sales from the Apple online store? that is the worst idea ever.
so what is the next best phone out there since it looks like i can not get an iphone.
would it kill you to wait a week or so before buying one?
would it kill you to wait a week or so before buying one?
and you think the lines are going to be down in a week? We only have two Apple store in wisconsinand very few at&crap stores. the closest apple store or at&crap store is over an hour away
Do you realize that the reason they're restricting purchasing is because otherwise you'd be able to get a $200 iPod Touch by jailbreaking it?
No. The $199 subsidized price is had with a two-year contract. You either get the privilege of paying $60/month (which turns your "iPod Touch" into a $919 device), or you break the contract (which then means you've paid about $400-500). The other two alternatives are paying the non-contract price of $399 and jailbreaking it, or simply buying the touch
This will speed WiMax development and could potentially provide some competition for 4G (LTE). The window will be closing, so it'll be interesting to see how this goes.
I hope Wimax can get up and running. It will provide some healthy competition in the market place. But they need to get moving and get established well before LTE gets rolled out because it looks to be the stronger technology.
The original agreement was a 5 year exclusive with ATT which included revenue sharing. The question is whether that has been revised along with the revenue sharing amendment. I would think it isn't.
Did you even read the AT&T press release that I cited?
It specifically said that AT&T is the exclusive provider of the 3G iphone in the US.
AT&T said that it will take a hit on earnings for the next 2 years by about 10-12 cents a share.
AT&T also said that they won't be making money of this deal until 2010 --- so at the very least the exclusive agreement goes beyond 2010 to make any sense for them.
"There's more to this than I've outlined where the handset manufacturers are likely to have more power in the future years, but I'll save that for another diatribe.".
Balsi, could you elaborate? I'm definitely interested in seeing the telecom companies lose some power here so we can see more competitive markets. But what points in that direction? Apple, for all it's market-shaking brilliance, still has to cave to the "status-quo" - at least that's what it looks like to me. Of course they're ruled (as any public company) by the almighty dollar, and they have to go where the money leads. That doesn't mean I have to agree or like it though.
I would think at the very least Apple will stay tied to AT&T for a minimum of 12 months. After 12 months rolls by, I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon got friendly with Apple. 24 months after the release of the 3G iPhone would seem more practical for a cut in one carrier only practice.
At this point, I am not sure what Apple is thinking about having their phone tied to one carrier. I don't see the value added in doing this, even if it means no visual voice mail.
Let's address this one more time:
CDMA is a dead in the water system which has very little usage outside the US. Furthermore, it's usage is shrinking. Apple are extremely unlikely to ship a CDMA iPhone and by extension a VeriZon one.
Since ATT just anounced that Apple will no longer have revenue sharing with ATT, and will be just like any other equipment providor, I don't see how ATT can keep Apple from selling the iPhone to other carriers.
Oh, I guarantee you revenue sharing is going on. The iPhone did not just suddenly shed $200 of its price from nowhere, making it cheaper than even the iPod Touch. The key is in that $10 increase. Because $10 over 24 months = $240, add that to the $199-$299 you'll pay for an iPhone 3G and you'll see that they've actually managed to INCREASE the price by $40! But for those that don't do the math, you'll get roped in!
And when I saw the cheaper price and noticed that the iPod Touch hadn't decreased in price when the Apple Store went back up, I knew something was off.
The other thing is with activations now in the store, does this mean that iTunes will be pulling activation records from the web if you ever have to restore the iPhone OS firmware? Because that would royally suck if you have to go to the store every freaking time just to activate the phone.
I imagine by July 11th or shortly after you'll be able to purchase an iPhone 3G from the online Apple Store, but activating the phone will be part of the ordering process. If you can't buy the iPhone anywhere without signing a 2-year contract, then that'll certainly put an end to jailbreaking.
The other thing is with activations now in the store, does this mean that iTunes will be pulling activation records from the web if you ever have to restore the iPhone OS firmware? Because that would royally suck if you have to go to the store every freaking time just to activate the phone.
Yeah, because i totally restore my iPhone a couple time a week.
I imagine by July 11th or shortly after you'll be able to purchase an iPhone 3G from the online Apple Store, but activating the phone will be part of the ordering process. If you can't buy the iPhone anywhere without signing a 2-year contract, then that'll certainly put an end to jailbreaking.
I'm more concerned about my current iPhone and how easily it will be to pass onto mom on July 12.
CDMA is a dead in the water system which has very little usage outside the US. Furthermore, it's usage is shrinking. Apple are extremely unlikely to ship a CDMA iPhone and by extension a VeriZon one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
There are more CDMA subscribers outside the US than inside. Despite your contention, its usage is growing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensonb
Let's address this one more time:
CDMA is a dead in the water system which has very little usage outside the US. Furthermore, it's usage is shrinking. Apple are extremely unlikely to ship a CDMA iPhone and by extension a VeriZon one.
To expound on what JeffDM said, there are also more CDMA users than GSM users INSIDE the US too.
Also Sprint and Verizon turned down the iphone before Apple turned to ATT. Not everyone wants Apple dictating how they run their businesses.
Comments
AT&T remains the exclusive iphone provider in the US.
http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=25791
The original agreement was a 5 year exclusive with ATT which included revenue sharing. The question is whether that has been revised along with the revenue sharing amendment. I would think it isn't. In my mind, the point of the five year contract as apple saw it was to get to LTE, the CDMA chipset is more expensive and doesn't cross national borders well since a majority of the rest of the world is on GSM. With LTE Verizon and ATT are on the same platform as is the rest of the world, and I'd bet they go carrier-agnostic at that point. LTE is supposed to be 2012, probably more like 2013-2014 from what I'm hearing.
With the emergence of Android as what looks to be a decent operating system the world has changed a little bit from when the iPhone was launched. Now Apple needs to get as many phones into as many hands as possible, which means they need ATT to be incentivized to sell as many of the phones as possible to establish dominance as a platform which also entails developing the iPhone ecosystem etc.
Looking at the math, rumor was that Apple took $10 in ARPU for each iPhone customer, so in essence they took $240 over the contract of a customer. I'd assume that the subsidy that ATT gives is about that much now, and if I made a bet, contractually they have to give that much because Apple wants the guarantee that the iPhone would be competitive with every other smartphone that comes out. ATT is making the bet that iPhone customers won't by a new iPhone every 2 years and that even if they do they'll stay with ATT service (the cost to retain a customer is less than the cost to acquire a new customer to your service) and therefore they come out ahead.
Apple was really challenging the status quo with the revenue sharing deal before, now they've fallen in line with the rest of the industry which in my mind is not unexpected. There's more to this than I've outlined where the handset manufacturers are likely to have more power in the future years, but I'll save that for another diatribe.
I wrote this quickly, I apologize if there are non-sequiters (sp) or gaps that I don't fully explain
so what is the next best phone out there since it looks like i can not get an iphone.
I know that Verizon is on a different network so it's not that easy to get iPhone to play nice with it, but can anyone imagine the millions of $$$ it would pay off if Verizon would get the iPhone already? I know it would have my $199...
WTF! Apple, I been waiting a year to get an iphone, so now I have to stand in line for 8 hours hoping when I get to the counter that they are not sold out or the store is closing, I dont think so, what were you thinging when dropping sales from the Apple online store? that is the worst idea ever.
so what is the next best phone out there since it looks like i can not get an iphone.
would it kill you to wait a week or so before buying one?
would it kill you to wait a week or so before buying one?
and you think the lines are going to be down in a week? We only have two Apple store in wisconsinand very few at&crap stores. the closest apple store or at&crap store is over an hour away
Do you realize that the reason they're restricting purchasing is because otherwise you'd be able to get a $200 iPod Touch by jailbreaking it?
No. The $199 subsidized price is had with a two-year contract. You either get the privilege of paying $60/month (which turns your "iPod Touch" into a $919 device), or you break the contract (which then means you've paid about $400-500). The other two alternatives are paying the non-contract price of $399 and jailbreaking it, or simply buying the touch
In other significant news... Cisco, Intel, Alcatel-Lucent, Clearwire, Samsung and Sprint have formed a WiMax patent pool.
http://www.networkworld.com/news/200...orm-wimax.html
This will speed WiMax development and could potentially provide some competition for 4G (LTE). The window will be closing, so it'll be interesting to see how this goes.
I hope Wimax can get up and running. It will provide some healthy competition in the market place. But they need to get moving and get established well before LTE gets rolled out because it looks to be the stronger technology.
No initial online sales means camping out, big lines and extra media attention......
the edge iphone wasnt subsidized. that's why you could activate at home.
the $199 3G iphone is subsidized. therefore you have to activate it upon purchase just like every other subsidized phone in the US.
The original agreement was a 5 year exclusive with ATT which included revenue sharing. The question is whether that has been revised along with the revenue sharing amendment. I would think it isn't.
Did you even read the AT&T press release that I cited?
It specifically said that AT&T is the exclusive provider of the 3G iphone in the US.
AT&T said that it will take a hit on earnings for the next 2 years by about 10-12 cents a share.
AT&T also said that they won't be making money of this deal until 2010 --- so at the very least the exclusive agreement goes beyond 2010 to make any sense for them.
Balsi, could you elaborate? I'm definitely interested in seeing the telecom companies lose some power here so we can see more competitive markets. But what points in that direction? Apple, for all it's market-shaking brilliance, still has to cave to the "status-quo" - at least that's what it looks like to me. Of course they're ruled (as any public company) by the almighty dollar, and they have to go where the money leads. That doesn't mean I have to agree or like it though.
I would think at the very least Apple will stay tied to AT&T for a minimum of 12 months. After 12 months rolls by, I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon got friendly with Apple. 24 months after the release of the 3G iPhone would seem more practical for a cut in one carrier only practice.
At this point, I am not sure what Apple is thinking about having their phone tied to one carrier. I don't see the value added in doing this, even if it means no visual voice mail.
Let's address this one more time:
CDMA is a dead in the water system which has very little usage outside the US. Furthermore, it's usage is shrinking. Apple are extremely unlikely to ship a CDMA iPhone and by extension a VeriZon one.
Since ATT just anounced that Apple will no longer have revenue sharing with ATT, and will be just like any other equipment providor, I don't see how ATT can keep Apple from selling the iPhone to other carriers.
Oh, I guarantee you revenue sharing is going on. The iPhone did not just suddenly shed $200 of its price from nowhere, making it cheaper than even the iPod Touch. The key is in that $10 increase. Because $10 over 24 months = $240, add that to the $199-$299 you'll pay for an iPhone 3G and you'll see that they've actually managed to INCREASE the price by $40! But for those that don't do the math, you'll get roped in!
And when I saw the cheaper price and noticed that the iPod Touch hadn't decreased in price when the Apple Store went back up, I knew something was off.
The other thing is with activations now in the store, does this mean that iTunes will be pulling activation records from the web if you ever have to restore the iPhone OS firmware? Because that would royally suck if you have to go to the store every freaking time just to activate the phone.
Let's address this one more time:
CDMA is a dead in the water system which has very little usage outside the US. Furthermore, it's usage is shrinking.
There are more CDMA subscribers outside the US than inside. Despite your contention, its usage is growing.
Oh, I guarantee you revenue sharing is going on.
It's in the Apple's SEC filings --- no revenue sharing.
The other thing is with activations now in the store, does this mean that iTunes will be pulling activation records from the web if you ever have to restore the iPhone OS firmware? Because that would royally suck if you have to go to the store every freaking time just to activate the phone.
Yeah, because i totally restore my iPhone a couple time a week.
I imagine by July 11th or shortly after you'll be able to purchase an iPhone 3G from the online Apple Store, but activating the phone will be part of the ordering process. If you can't buy the iPhone anywhere without signing a 2-year contract, then that'll certainly put an end to jailbreaking.
I'm more concerned about my current iPhone and how easily it will be to pass onto mom on July 12.
Let's address this one more time:
CDMA is a dead in the water system which has very little usage outside the US. Furthermore, it's usage is shrinking. Apple are extremely unlikely to ship a CDMA iPhone and by extension a VeriZon one.
There are more CDMA subscribers outside the US than inside. Despite your contention, its usage is growing.
Let's address this one more time:
CDMA is a dead in the water system which has very little usage outside the US. Furthermore, it's usage is shrinking. Apple are extremely unlikely to ship a CDMA iPhone and by extension a VeriZon one.
To expound on what JeffDM said, there are also more CDMA users than GSM users INSIDE the US too.
Also Sprint and Verizon turned down the iphone before Apple turned to ATT. Not everyone wants Apple dictating how they run their businesses.