Apple previews Mac OS X Snow Leopard with QuickTime X

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  • Reply 81 of 182
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,419member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    PPC and Intel 32-bit are gone.
    "Snow Leopard dramatically reduces the footprint of Mac OS X, making it even more efficient for users, and giving them back valuable hard drive space for their music and photos."



    Appears so without Apple outwardly saying so. LOL. Talk about passive agressive behavior. Just say it "We killed PPC support" there....let it out.



    I guess my Core Duo mini is fckd. Maybe I can swap out the CD for a C2D chip.
  • Reply 82 of 182
    mrpiddlymrpiddly Posts: 406member
    I hope it has openGL 3 support as well. Looking at the current openGL release schedule, it appears that this would be possible.
  • Reply 83 of 182
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Appears so without Apple outwardly saying so. LOL. Talk about passive agressive behavior. Just say it "We killed PPC support" there....let it out.



    I guess my Core Duo mini is fckd. Maybe I can swap out the CD for a C2D chip.



    But only in Snow Leopard. I think reusing the name Leopard is telling. I think Apple will still have an update that is current for the 4 full years to support up to the CD machines.
  • Reply 84 of 182
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,419member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrpiddly View Post


    I hope it has openGL 3 support as well. Looking at the current openGL release schedule, it appears that this would be possible.



    Really? I thought Mt Evans was delayed. I'd certainly love to see OpenGL 3.0 make it in seeing as how it's supposedly a huge architectural improvement.
  • Reply 85 of 182
    I think it'd be a good idea to have an App store for the mac, a centralized place to get free and non-free apps for the mac over the web, if Apple could somehow set that up that would be nice. That and brushing up the interface are all I would want for new features, other than that getting down and scrubbing up that code sounds good to me!
  • Reply 86 of 182
    macserverxmacserverx Posts: 217member
    "Rather than focusing primarily on new features, Snow Leopard will enhance the performance of OS X, set a new standard for quality and lay the foundation for future OS X innovation."



    "Rather than...primarily", key words here.



    Snow Leopard is sort of analogous to a rebuilding year for a football team. You focus on the fundamentals, the footwork, the speed, etc. For Snow Leopard this could be as much as firing the trustee, but aging, PowerPC but it's really about making sure that when Lion comes out (next season) OS X is one finely tuned, well oiled machine ready to deliver.



    This is how every release has been. One release gives us cool stuff, the next makes it what we always wanted, but we never knew we wanted it until we had the "Ehn, this sucks, I want more" version.



    Finally, Apple never talks about their upcoming stuff. What we have today is the only thing we'll have to work with until we start seeing developer seeds come March maybe. Unlike Microsoft, Apple doesn't over promise and under deliver, Apple promises little and delivers much.
  • Reply 87 of 182
    johnqhjohnqh Posts: 242member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post


    The real question is this: is QuickTime X a total rewrite or still building on the ancient QuickTime foundation? If it's the latter, I'm totally disappointed. We don't just need new codecs...we need new plumbing.



    Completely agree. I am a developer and I work with both Microsoft's technologies and QuickTime.



    Comparing to Microsoft's DirectShow, QT is badly architected. It is extremely difficult to add new formats and codecs. Meanwhile, adding a new format in DS is easy. Just look at all the open source DirectShow components for all the weird formats.



    QuickTime needs to be re-architected and re-written.
  • Reply 88 of 182
    thttht Posts: 5,421member
    Am I really that old? Or are the kids today totally devoid of any technical understanding of operating system technology?



    1. No PPC support is at best an extrapolation from conspiracy minded bloggers and their sources. The press release has no indication of dropping PPC support whatsoever. Hell, it doesn't even mention Intel other the SquirrelFish footnote. It won't be a surprise (since there could be good marketing reasons to do so), but I don't see it in this PR.



    2. Are some of you guys insane, part 1? Making the operating system massively multi-core capable is a massive undertaking. Making the whole OS entirely threadsafe and re-architected for massive SMP to take advantage of all of the cores is essentially rewriting the operating system. And they better start doing it with Nehalem knocking on the door. By this time next year, Apple could be shipping a MacBook Pro (that's a laptop) consisting of 1 CPU with 4 cores and 8 logical processors. That's 8 concurrent threads. The Mac Pro could have as much as 16 logical processors. I don't think the current OS really handles that many processors that well outside of specialized applications.



    3. Are some of you guys insane, part 2? Apple is writing an API for developers to access the GPU for general purpose computing. Another thing to allow developers to make thing faster. And for free for those with MBP, MB and iMacs. On top this future GPUs will have even more massive computational power in the future. Intel Larrabee is coming too which is essentially a bunch of simplified x86 cores acting as a GPU.



    4. The media API (Quicktime X) is being replaced with a next-gen architecture. Who in their right mind doesn't think that isn't a small undertaking. Quicktime touches virtually every app Apple produces.



    5. Improving addressable memory to 16 TB.



    6. They are trying to "dramatically" reduce footprint.



    If they just do number 2 and 3, do it well, and make it easily accessible to applications, Snow Leopard will be worthy of an OS-X version 11, not 10.6, version number.
  • Reply 89 of 182
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post


    No no no! Apple has not been fulfilling any of our expectations for years now. What did we get with the $129 Leopard upgrade? Spaces? TimeMachine? New bugs? Adobe Incompatibility? Keychain problems?



    How about with Leopard Server? Downtime? AppleTalk Bugs? Mail Bugs? Freezes?



    So this is the BIG iPhone update eh? 3G and GPS? Wow! They should be embarrassed to dedicate a whole event for this update. What happened to voice dialing, or video capturing, spoken directions from Google Maps. How about some Mac stuff, maybe something that their customers need like the forsaken mid-tower, yeah I know we'll get bug fixes for Leopard in 12 months instead.



    ARRRGH! They build-up so much anticipation and deliver so little. I mean 3G and GPS should've been in the first gen iPhone.



    You're unreasonable. Apple has delivered much, even if you don't care about it.
  • Reply 90 of 182
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pt123 View Post


    So if it is just performance and stability, what is there to preview? Come look at see this computer "not crash", see how much faster the window opens when I double click?



    You're looking at it from a users viewpoint. Developers want to know about the code. This changes major portions of code, how it is used, what it is, how it interacts with the hardware, and most importantly to them, how it will affect THEIR code, and the performance of their programs.
  • Reply 91 of 182
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vassillios View Post


    I bet we will get 1 major new feature in 10.6...



    Full ZFS



    If this is code optimization, wouldn't you say ZFS would be a way to optimze the file system?



    And resolution independence, which is in the system now, but only for developer testing.
  • Reply 92 of 182
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post


    What people seem to be missing here is that dropping PPC now would send a terrible message to the CIOs of the world. Dropping support for a 3 year old computer sets a horrible precedent that essentially tells the corporate world that unless they replace all their computers every 3 years, they risk having Apple pull the rug out from under them.



    What a terrible message to send at a time when Apple has a real opportunity to get into enterprise.



    Enterprise standardizes on a single OS across the organization whenever possible. For those running Windows everything from 8 year old Pentiums and Athlons to today's quad core based PCs can run the same OS. For those running MacOS there's no way to standardize on a single OS because old machines can't run Leopard and new machines can't run Tiger. Adding another set of OS requirements to the mix next year would make matters even worse.



    If it comes out a year from now, it will be almost four years.



    Most large corporations are on three year buying plans, so that shouldn't be a problem. Those old machines will be the ones going out anyway, if they haven't already done so.
  • Reply 93 of 182
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    A lot of people are discussing that recently (J.G. etc.) what with the dropping of "Mac" in the OS's name and all.





    I said they should have does this a while ago, but now the timing seems pretty perfect. The ball's in their court, it's time for Steve to get off his high horse and realize this won't last forever and there'll come a time when Linux is as as to use and Google releases their own OS. The timing is right, he made this mistake in the 80's. This could be different.



    Oh, come on Ireland, it's obvious. Is an iTouch a Mac? Is an iPhone a Mac? Is an ATv a Mac?



    No, of course not.



    People are really going overboard about this.
  • Reply 94 of 182
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by THT View Post


    Am I really that old? Or are the kids...



    Agreed. Just because there's no eye candy or "user" features, doesn't mean an upgrade won't be beneficial. If the new OS will make your computer last for another two years, $129 (assumed price) is not a lot to spend. Apple will continue to improve Leopard (10.5), fixing bugs and patching security issues just as they always have. By the time Snow Leopard is released, Leopard will be rock solid. It's obvious to Apple where they need to focus their attention and that apparently was determined to be optimizing the OS with the hardware more.



    No where is it mentioned that it will no longer support PowerPC. It does say, "reduces the footprint of Mac OS X", but that doesn't mean dropping support. More than likely it means optimizing installations, or removing redundant code and libraries. There could be a dozen different things they could do to reduce the footprint.
  • Reply 95 of 182
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Scenerio 0x00...

    I think they will be dropping 32-bit Intel AND PPC from Snow Leopard, but it won't be the last version of OS X to support those architectures. If we call SL 10.6, I think there will be a 10.7, say, Lion and a 10.8 Mountain LIon. Lion, like Leopard, will support PPC and 32-bit to allow for at least 4 years of support between compatible OSes. Lion will be the last OS X version to support 32-bit Intel and PPC.



    Those that are still using non-64bit x86 machines will still be using Leopard just fine and still receive updates as usual, but all NEW Macs will come with the streamlines OS and those with modern Macs will be able to purchase the OS if they choose to.



    Scenerio 0x01...

    Apple does kill PPC and 32-bit Intel support with Snow Leopard and offer a newer version for older systems. Instead it extended the life of Leopard as a viable and modern OS by supplying point updates for longer than usual to make sure they support these aging machines. For example, Apple may take Leopard to 4 years old with 10.5.18, which would include new feature sets from Snow Leopard.



    I see no reason why they would cut 32 bit support.



    If fact, they CAN'T cut 32 bit support.



    First of all, 32 bit costs OS X no loss in performance, so there is nothing to gain there. The code is also clean, so no problem there either.



    Then there are the problems in doing it.



    The first generation Intel machines would also be left out, as Yonah is 32 bit. Not good!



    Secondly, and most importantly, Apple will be cutting out Office and Adobe's programs. Really not good!



    How many other programs are 32 bit? I bet most of them are, and will continue to be.



    These developers would be rightfully pissed if they had to redo their programs again. They also won't be happy being told that they must work with an old OS.



    This is some time in the future.
  • Reply 96 of 182
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    PPC and Intel 32-bit are gone.



    Where does it actually SAY that?
  • Reply 97 of 182
    I'll add my voice to the list of people who is more excited about this release than any other before it. It is also funny to see some of the same people who have been whining about general stability issues of new Mac software whining, now, about the perfect solution to that problem. You know who else should do this? Adobe. Their crap, as vital as it is to the work I do, gets more bloated every time they upgrade it.



    I am really looking forward to this. I'm sure Apple will deliver on the promise and if they deliver well I would be thrilled to pay $129. This is also going to be great for all of the clients I tutor and work for. I can't think of a single one of them that values new features over speed and dependability.
  • Reply 98 of 182
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Appears so without Apple outwardly saying so. LOL. Talk about passive agressive behavior. Just say it "We killed PPC support" there....let it out.



    I guess my Core Duo mini is fckd. Maybe I can swap out the CD for a C2D chip.



    It's not like you to jump so quickly. It doesn't actually SAY that. At least, I can't find it.



    What it does say is that new technologies will replace old code (it sort of says that). 64 bit isn't new technology. The only thing new there in 64 bit, from what I see, is in allowing 1,000 times as much RAM.
  • Reply 99 of 182
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I see no reason why they would cut 32 bit support.



    If fact, they CAN'T cut 32 bit support.



    First of all, 32 bit costs OS X no loss in performance, so there is nothing to gain there. The code is also clean, so no problem there either.



    Then there are the problems in doing it.



    The first generation Intel machines would also be left out, as Yonah is 32 bit. Not good!



    Secondly, and most importantly, Apple will be cutting out Office and Adobe's programs. Really not good!



    How many other programs are 32 bit? I bet most of them are, and will continue to be.



    These developers would be rightfully pissed if they had to redo their programs again. They also won't be happy being told that they must work with an old OS.



    This is some time in the future.



    Excellent points. But PPC is definitely out from the Snow Leopard splash page info, and ZFS will be the default filesystem for Snow Leopard Server.



    So, adjusting my 2nd scenario* for allowing all Intel and no PPC, do they makes sense or do you foresee another option for Mac?



    * the 1st scenario would most likely take development past the typical support cycle, making it pointless.
  • Reply 100 of 182
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post


    No where is it mentioned that it will no longer support PowerPC. It does say, "reduces the footprint of Mac OS X", but that doesn't mean dropping support. More than likely it means optimizing installations, or removing redundant code and libraries. There could be a dozen different things they could do to reduce the footprint.



    Anybody but me think it's possible that when SL is released, it will reduce its footprint by offloading all the Core functions onto proprietary coprocessors designed by PA Semi, that will be built into the new Macs coming out in that time frame? And that Leopard and Snow Leopard (and maybe Lion and Mountain Lion) will run in parallel for some years, the first in each pair still supporting legacy hardware that the second doesn't have to? And that that was the significance of the bifurcating Golden Gate Bridges?
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