So let me get this right. I buy an iPhone and if I don't enjoy surfing the net with a tiny little screen you're opinion is that it's a waste to buy it?
Videos
Music
Full blown email -> with ichat soon to come
PDA feature set
Games
etc....those are all not good enough reasons to buy it? Oh wait, I almost forgot. It also has A PHONE!
Oh now I see your logic.
Also, I didn't know a couple hundred bucks was top dollar. I guess you won't be getting one then.
if you don't have flat, you have no email, surfing. google maps nor messenger everywhere you go, only where you have open wifi access... and i use my iphone to control my network @ home and all those other things osX on the iphone allows me on my unlocked and open iphone...
the idea of the iphone is having EDGE(GPRS) access to the internet everywhere you go and where you have coverage by your provider, which in my case is in 99% of the country... (and with 3G it will be even faster, but i'm quite happy with the EDGE/GPRS speed. even when i'm in a neighborhood that only has GPRS google maps and email works great. only web browsing is a little slow)
if you don't have a flatrate you might use that EDGE/GPRS connection for a very hefty price, or not at all... then you have an expensive cell phone and an ipod touch... but not an everywhere you go internet access, no matter where you go...
that's what i mean... i pay €15/month for my flat rate... and i have to say it rocks being able to email, check my position on google maps (or to check services offered nearby with google maps, after using the locate me feature) and all the other features on the go...
i think the main reason to get the iphone is that everywhere concept... and if you don't have that access then your missing out on one of the main advantages of it...
of course one can still use the iphone without EDGE/GPRS and still be happy, but it's not the full iphone exerpience that the manufacturer has in mind for you....!!!
one has to wait till she/he gets home(to the office) or till there's access to an open private (or commercial one where one has access) wifi hotspot... i would find that extremely limiting, EXTREMELY... no having my iphone cecking my email automatically and not having to worry when i will have internet access again...
of course a few years ago we could live without the internet or cell phones, or 50 years ago without cars and better public transport.... yadayadayada...
that's why apple tried to keep the iphone locked and to force the providers to only offer contracts with data flat rates so the consumer has the full experience and not the limited one we were used to...
or the worst case experience to go thru that end of month thing where one sees the horrendous pricing for non flat rate data services...
on top tmobile in germany includes a wifi flat rate with the iphone contract for their 8000 wifi hotspots in germany, same as att in the US, but there's less att hotspots per square mile in comparison (which will change after starbucks finsihes the switch to att...)
Also, I didn't know a couple hundred bucks was top dollar. I guess you won't be getting one then.
it seems your sense for $$$ has gone out the window... $399/$499 is still a lot of money for a smartphone (mobile computer, or whatever you call it). for the rest of us that have to work hard to make a living we like to think we get top quality and service if we spend that kind of money and are not stingy afterwards to get the service it needs to function... which you obviously are not willing to fork over... since you don;t; think that's a lot of money i wonder why your not getting a flat rate for your iphone in the first place... your reasoning doesn't make ANY sense....!!!
it seems your sense for $$$ has gone out the window... $399/$499 is still a lot of money for a smartphone (mobile computer, or whatever you call it). for the rest of us that have to work hard to make a living we like to think we get top quality and service if we spend that kind of money and are not stingy afterwards to get the service it needs to function... which you obviously are not willing to fork over... since you don;t; think that's a lot of money i wonder why your not getting a flat rate for your iphone in the first place... your reasoning doesn't make ANY sense....!!!
Ah, how soon we forget. In the old days, cell phones weighed a couple of pounds, cost $1,500, where the major feature was the ability to save five phone numbers (without names!), calls were $5 a minute, coming or going, and calls dropped out every time you turned around the corner.
Ah, how soon we forget. In the old days, cell phones weighed a couple of pounds, cost $1,500, where the major feature was the ability to save five phone numbers (without names!), calls were $5 a minute, coming or going, and calls dropped out every time you turned around the corner.
yup, and that was super top $$$ back then... only the super rich or the people who's job it was to move a lot of money could afford one of those...
yup, and that was super top $$$ back then... only the super rich or the people who's job it was to move a lot of money could afford one of those...
That's right, and it's why $300 to $400 phones aren't really such a big deal now. Those old costs in todays money would be at least 50% HIGHER today.
But, it depends on how much you count on your phone in your daily life. If you hardly use it, then something simple, and cheap, is fine. But, if you spend a lot of time on it doing various things, spending a fair amount more isn't really such a big deal. When you look at how much you're going to pay for two years of sophisticated service, an extra $100 for the phone isn't such a big deal, unless you get a new phone on a regular basis.
That's right, and it's why $300 to $400 phones aren't really such a big deal now. Those old costs in todays money would be at least 50% HIGHER today.
But, it depends on how much you count on your phone in your daily life. If you hardly use it, then something simple, and cheap, is fine. But, if you spend a lot of time on it doing various things, spending a fair amount more isn't really such a big deal. When you look at how much you're going to pay for two years of sophisticated service, an extra $100 for the phone isn't such a big deal, unless you get a new phone on a regular basis.
Of course, there is always the added value of an iPhone over regular phones, which I think is why we are seeing so many non-smartphone and non-Mac users buying the smartphones. There is even an unusually high percentage of people who has never owned an iPod buying an iPhone.
it works faster than GPS, 1-5 seconds from the moment one asks for the geolocation. GPS needs 30-120 seconds to get a fix. and to have the GPS always on will deplete the battery exponentially...
I take it you've never used a mobile phone with decent GPS built-in, like the ones available in Japan? I have the Toshiba W53T and I use the built-in GPS all of the time for navigation in my car, but it's only turned on when you go to use it, and then it turns off again meaning my battery continues to last ages (days) like usual.
Also 30-120 seconds? I just took a photo on my mobile and timed how long it took to geo-encode it with my current position. It took around 10 seconds. So please, just because you have a second-rate GPS device don't assume GPS sucks everywhere. Last time I went back to the UK I tried GPS on a friend's Nokia N95 however and it was a joke; slow and inaccurate.
However I'm of the belief that this next version of the iPhone will most likely not have GPS built-in, but will support it via bluetooth. Apple have spent too much effort on their location-based services to scrap it already. Plus you have to think about the THINNESS!
Interesting article explaining what the Japanese expect in a cell phone and the poor way in which tend to choose a device.
[...]
"Some people care about quality, but first and foremost it's about the features," says Nobi Hayashi, a journalist and author of Steve Jobs: The Greatest Creative Director. He estimates that the average person only uses 5 to 10 percent of the functions available on their handsets.
Japan is a culture of spec sheets. When consumers go to electronics stores to buy a cellphone, they frequently line up the specifications side by side to compare them before deciding which one to buy.
[...]
The manufacturers, who realize the absurdity of piling on features that don't work well, are caught in a vicious cycle of materialistic consumers who always want the newest high-tech handsets, and carriers that have complete control over what products and services are provided to their customers.
Also 30-120 seconds? I just took a photo on my mobile and timed how long it took to geo-encode it with my current position. It took around 10 seconds. So please, just because you have a second-rate GPS device don't assume GPS sucks everywhere. Last time I went back to the UK I tried GPS on a friend's Nokia N95 however and it was a joke; slow and inaccurate.
if it took 10 seconds the GPS module must have been on... there's no GPS on the market that starts up and gets fix from a "cold" start in under 30 seconds, those are the fast ones. the cheaper ones take up to 120 seconds... 10 seconds, including loading the data and puting it into the EXIF header must be with the GPS unit already on! thus sucking battery... i doubt your phone will survive one day without charge like that!
Interesting article explaining what the Japanese expect in a cell phone and the poor way in which tend to choose a device.
[...]
"Some people care about quality, but first and foremost it's about the features," says Nobi Hayashi, a journalist and author of Steve Jobs: The Greatest Creative Director. He estimates that the average person only uses 5 to 10 percent of the functions available on their handsets.
Japan is a culture of spec sheets. When consumers go to electronics stores to buy a cellphone, they frequently line up the specifications side by side to compare them before deciding which one to buy.
[...]
The manufacturers, who realize the absurdity of piling on features that don't work well, are caught in a vicious cycle of materialistic consumers who always want the newest high-tech handsets, and carriers that have complete control over what products and services are provided to their customers.
i loved that article, also the comments on the flaws of those handsets... drop outs while watching TV, no reception while in a subway, etc. etc....
i'd rather watch my favorite TV series that i got for free from EZTV and encoded to itunes with visualhub from 720p quality.... than to watch hard to watch shaky live TV broadcast with audio and video drop outs.... i think live video on a cell needs to be streamed via the internet/provider intranet rather than broadcasted digital TV that always will have neighborhoods with spotty reception.... the smaller cells of the cell phone company will always guarantee better "reception"... so if you want you could call it IPTV via the cell phone network... it doesn't have to be provided by the cell phone company... an IPTV provider with a good backbone like akamai can handle that much traffic easily in areas where they have the infrastructure in place... apple also uses them for their itunes video portfolio...
However I'm of the belief that this next version of the iPhone will most likely not have GPS built-in, but will support it via bluetooth. Apple have spent too much effort on their location-based services to scrap it already. Plus you have to think about the THINNESS!
skyhook/apple/google thinks the best is an integrated solution that relies on GPS/WPS, in metro areas with good WPS coverage it will rely on WPS, when coverage gets spotty it will warm up the GPS and use both, when there's no more WPS data available it will switch to full GPS mode... that is the ideal... in metro areas, inside buildings, shopping malls or event locations, like the moscone center in SF, WPS has clear advantages... on the road with no highrises close and spotty or no WPS coverage GPS has the edge.... that's why skyhook also advocates an integrated solution, using both...
to get your position within 1 second is unbeaten... it depends on the network lag, 3G and wifi have less network lag, EDGE/GPRS have great network lag... that's why WPS is depending on a short network response time... i normally get a result within a second or so when using wifi, and 3-5 seconds when using my GSM-providers GPRS connection with my iphone and google maps "locate me" feature, if i'm in an area with skyhook WPS coverage....
i loved that article, also the comments on the flaws of those handsets... drop outs while watching TV, no reception while in a subway, etc. etc....
i'd rather watch my favorite TV series that i got for free from EZTV and encoded to itunes with visualhub from 720p quality.... than to watch hard to watch shaky live TV broadcast with audio and video drop outs.... i think live video on a cell needs to be streamed via the internet/provider intranet rather than broadcasted digital TV that always will have neighborhoods with spotty reception.... the smaller cells of the cell phone company will always guarantee better "reception"... so if you want you could call it IPTV via the cell phone network... it doesn't have to be provided by the cell phone company... an IPTV provider with a good backbone like akamai can handle that much traffic easily in areas where they have the infrastructure in place... apple also uses them for their itunes video portfolio...
Have you lived in Japan? Visited? They are in love with their mobile phones with TV; they even now have holders that will position the phone sideways so you can watch... in your car. Your average person also doesn't want to go through the trouble of downloading, re-encoding and then transferring a file to watch it.
Have you lived in Japan? Visited? They are in love with their mobile phones with TV; they even now have holders that will position the phone sideways so you can watch... in your car. Your average person also doesn't want to go through the trouble of downloading, re-encoding and then transferring a file to watch it.
Mobile TV is a "success" in Japan and South Korea --- because it's a free service.
Meanwhile, the companies that provide the service faces massive losses.
edit: Anyone here savvy enough to figure out how much internet browsing time you'd have if the chips were used with the current OS optimizations and battery size/type/density?
Just noticed that Apple Japan's .mac site has a photo of an iPhone and a caption stating that you can create a web gallery on iPhone. This is big because the caption is in Japanese, and the iPhone has not officially been released here yet.
Cannot say when the photo and caption were posted; the article is a couple of weeks old.
Comments
So let me get this right. I buy an iPhone and if I don't enjoy surfing the net with a tiny little screen you're opinion is that it's a waste to buy it?
Videos
Music
Full blown email -> with ichat soon to come
PDA feature set
Games
etc....those are all not good enough reasons to buy it? Oh wait, I almost forgot. It also has A PHONE!
Oh now I see your logic.
Also, I didn't know a couple hundred bucks was top dollar. I guess you won't be getting one then.
if you don't have flat, you have no email, surfing. google maps nor messenger everywhere you go, only where you have open wifi access... and i use my iphone to control my network @ home and all those other things osX on the iphone allows me on my unlocked and open iphone...
the idea of the iphone is having EDGE(GPRS) access to the internet everywhere you go and where you have coverage by your provider, which in my case is in 99% of the country... (and with 3G it will be even faster, but i'm quite happy with the EDGE/GPRS speed. even when i'm in a neighborhood that only has GPRS google maps and email works great. only web browsing is a little slow)
if you don't have a flatrate you might use that EDGE/GPRS connection for a very hefty price, or not at all... then you have an expensive cell phone and an ipod touch... but not an everywhere you go internet access, no matter where you go...
that's what i mean... i pay €15/month for my flat rate... and i have to say it rocks being able to email, check my position on google maps (or to check services offered nearby with google maps, after using the locate me feature) and all the other features on the go...
i think the main reason to get the iphone is that everywhere concept... and if you don't have that access then your missing out on one of the main advantages of it...
of course one can still use the iphone without EDGE/GPRS and still be happy, but it's not the full iphone exerpience that the manufacturer has in mind for you....!!!
one has to wait till she/he gets home(to the office) or till there's access to an open private (or commercial one where one has access) wifi hotspot... i would find that extremely limiting, EXTREMELY... no having my iphone cecking my email automatically and not having to worry when i will have internet access again...
of course a few years ago we could live without the internet or cell phones, or 50 years ago without cars and better public transport.... yadayadayada...
that's why apple tried to keep the iphone locked and to force the providers to only offer contracts with data flat rates so the consumer has the full experience and not the limited one we were used to...
or the worst case experience to go thru that end of month thing where one sees the horrendous pricing for non flat rate data services...
on top tmobile in germany includes a wifi flat rate with the iphone contract for their 8000 wifi hotspots in germany, same as att in the US, but there's less att hotspots per square mile in comparison (which will change after starbucks finsihes the switch to att...)
Also, I didn't know a couple hundred bucks was top dollar. I guess you won't be getting one then.
it seems your sense for $$$ has gone out the window... $399/$499 is still a lot of money for a smartphone (mobile computer, or whatever you call it). for the rest of us that have to work hard to make a living we like to think we get top quality and service if we spend that kind of money and are not stingy afterwards to get the service it needs to function... which you obviously are not willing to fork over... since you don;t; think that's a lot of money i wonder why your not getting a flat rate for your iphone in the first place... your reasoning doesn't make ANY sense....!!!
it seems your sense for $$$ has gone out the window... $399/$499 is still a lot of money for a smartphone (mobile computer, or whatever you call it). for the rest of us that have to work hard to make a living we like to think we get top quality and service if we spend that kind of money and are not stingy afterwards to get the service it needs to function... which you obviously are not willing to fork over... since you don;t; think that's a lot of money i wonder why your not getting a flat rate for your iphone in the first place... your reasoning doesn't make ANY sense....!!!
Ah, how soon we forget. In the old days, cell phones weighed a couple of pounds, cost $1,500, where the major feature was the ability to save five phone numbers (without names!), calls were $5 a minute, coming or going, and calls dropped out every time you turned around the corner.
Ah, how soon we forget. In the old days, cell phones weighed a couple of pounds, cost $1,500, where the major feature was the ability to save five phone numbers (without names!), calls were $5 a minute, coming or going, and calls dropped out every time you turned around the corner.
yup, and that was super top $$$ back then... only the super rich or the people who's job it was to move a lot of money could afford one of those...
yup, and that was super top $$$ back then... only the super rich or the people who's job it was to move a lot of money could afford one of those...
That's right, and it's why $300 to $400 phones aren't really such a big deal now. Those old costs in todays money would be at least 50% HIGHER today.
But, it depends on how much you count on your phone in your daily life. If you hardly use it, then something simple, and cheap, is fine. But, if you spend a lot of time on it doing various things, spending a fair amount more isn't really such a big deal. When you look at how much you're going to pay for two years of sophisticated service, an extra $100 for the phone isn't such a big deal, unless you get a new phone on a regular basis.
That's right, and it's why $300 to $400 phones aren't really such a big deal now. Those old costs in todays money would be at least 50% HIGHER today.
But, it depends on how much you count on your phone in your daily life. If you hardly use it, then something simple, and cheap, is fine. But, if you spend a lot of time on it doing various things, spending a fair amount more isn't really such a big deal. When you look at how much you're going to pay for two years of sophisticated service, an extra $100 for the phone isn't such a big deal, unless you get a new phone on a regular basis.
Of course, there is always the added value of an iPhone over regular phones, which I think is why we are seeing so many non-smartphone and non-Mac users buying the smartphones. There is even an unusually high percentage of people who has never owned an iPod buying an iPhone.
in favor of the WPS solution:
it saves money, no GPS module needed.
it saves battery, no GPS module sucking battery.
it works faster than GPS, 1-5 seconds from the moment one asks for the geolocation. GPS needs 30-120 seconds to get a fix. and to have the GPS always on will deplete the battery exponentially...
I take it you've never used a mobile phone with decent GPS built-in, like the ones available in Japan? I have the Toshiba W53T and I use the built-in GPS all of the time for navigation in my car, but it's only turned on when you go to use it, and then it turns off again meaning my battery continues to last ages (days) like usual.
Also 30-120 seconds? I just took a photo on my mobile and timed how long it took to geo-encode it with my current position. It took around 10 seconds. So please, just because you have a second-rate GPS device don't assume GPS sucks everywhere. Last time I went back to the UK I tried GPS on a friend's Nokia N95 however and it was a joke; slow and inaccurate.
However I'm of the belief that this next version of the iPhone will most likely not have GPS built-in, but will support it via bluetooth. Apple have spent too much effort on their location-based services to scrap it already. Plus you have to think about the THINNESS!
Also 30-120 seconds? I just took a photo on my mobile and timed how long it took to geo-encode it with my current position. It took around 10 seconds. So please, just because you have a second-rate GPS device don't assume GPS sucks everywhere. Last time I went back to the UK I tried GPS on a friend's Nokia N95 however and it was a joke; slow and inaccurate.
if it took 10 seconds the GPS module must have been on... there's no GPS on the market that starts up and gets fix from a "cold" start in under 30 seconds, those are the fast ones. the cheaper ones take up to 120 seconds... 10 seconds, including loading the data and puting it into the EXIF header must be with the GPS unit already on! thus sucking battery... i doubt your phone will survive one day without charge like that!
Interesting article explaining what the Japanese expect in a cell phone and the poor way in which tend to choose a device.
i loved that article, also the comments on the flaws of those handsets... drop outs while watching TV, no reception while in a subway, etc. etc....
i'd rather watch my favorite TV series that i got for free from EZTV and encoded to itunes with visualhub from 720p quality.... than to watch hard to watch shaky live TV broadcast with audio and video drop outs.... i think live video on a cell needs to be streamed via the internet/provider intranet rather than broadcasted digital TV that always will have neighborhoods with spotty reception.... the smaller cells of the cell phone company will always guarantee better "reception"... so if you want you could call it IPTV via the cell phone network... it doesn't have to be provided by the cell phone company... an IPTV provider with a good backbone like akamai can handle that much traffic easily in areas where they have the infrastructure in place... apple also uses them for their itunes video portfolio...
However I'm of the belief that this next version of the iPhone will most likely not have GPS built-in, but will support it via bluetooth. Apple have spent too much effort on their location-based services to scrap it already. Plus you have to think about the THINNESS!
skyhook/apple/google thinks the best is an integrated solution that relies on GPS/WPS, in metro areas with good WPS coverage it will rely on WPS, when coverage gets spotty it will warm up the GPS and use both, when there's no more WPS data available it will switch to full GPS mode... that is the ideal... in metro areas, inside buildings, shopping malls or event locations, like the moscone center in SF, WPS has clear advantages... on the road with no highrises close and spotty or no WPS coverage GPS has the edge.... that's why skyhook also advocates an integrated solution, using both...
to get your position within 1 second is unbeaten... it depends on the network lag, 3G and wifi have less network lag, EDGE/GPRS have great network lag... that's why WPS is depending on a short network response time... i normally get a result within a second or so when using wifi, and 3-5 seconds when using my GSM-providers GPRS connection with my iphone and google maps "locate me" feature, if i'm in an area with skyhook WPS coverage....
i loved that article, also the comments on the flaws of those handsets... drop outs while watching TV, no reception while in a subway, etc. etc....
i'd rather watch my favorite TV series that i got for free from EZTV and encoded to itunes with visualhub from 720p quality.... than to watch hard to watch shaky live TV broadcast with audio and video drop outs.... i think live video on a cell needs to be streamed via the internet/provider intranet rather than broadcasted digital TV that always will have neighborhoods with spotty reception.... the smaller cells of the cell phone company will always guarantee better "reception"... so if you want you could call it IPTV via the cell phone network... it doesn't have to be provided by the cell phone company... an IPTV provider with a good backbone like akamai can handle that much traffic easily in areas where they have the infrastructure in place... apple also uses them for their itunes video portfolio...
Have you lived in Japan? Visited? They are in love with their mobile phones with TV; they even now have holders that will position the phone sideways so you can watch... in your car. Your average person also doesn't want to go through the trouble of downloading, re-encoding and then transferring a file to watch it.
Have you lived in Japan? Visited? They are in love with their mobile phones with TV; they even now have holders that will position the phone sideways so you can watch... in your car. Your average person also doesn't want to go through the trouble of downloading, re-encoding and then transferring a file to watch it.
Mobile TV is a "success" in Japan and South Korea --- because it's a free service.
Meanwhile, the companies that provide the service faces massive losses.
http://www.mobiletelevisionreport.co...ssweek-ex.html
There is no business model yet for this thing.
- Infineon PMB6952(PDF) / S-GOLD3 six-band UMTS / HSDPA transceiver
- Murata LMRX3JCA-479 tri-band amplifier (we're assuming for the 3G)
- Sony SP9T antenna switch for GSM / UMTS dual mode
- ARM 1176JZF-S - Main CPU (same as in 1st gen iPhone)
- Skyworks 77427 chip - UMTS / HSDPA tx 1900MHz, rx 2100MHz
- Skyworks 77414 chip - UMTS / HSDPA 1900MHz
- Skyworks 77413 chip - UMTS / HSDPA 850MHz
- Internal build model number: n82ap (1st gen iPhone was model m68ap)
- UMTS Power Saving option - on or off
- Hooks for Global Locate Library (GLL), software that handles A-GPS related commands for the host processor
(source)edit: Anyone here savvy enough to figure out how much internet browsing time you'd have if the chips were used with the current OS optimizations and battery size/type/density?
Cannot say when the photo and caption were posted; the article is a couple of weeks old.
http://www.mac.com/WebObjects/Welcom...cty=JP&lang=ja
I heard from the dude at AU/KDDi today that Softbank is also July 17th. Anyone else hear anything about this?