As you have already bought the software the upgrade will just be offered free via the notification method that Apple provides.
What "notification method that Apple provides"? What if the developer doesn't want the update to be free?
Do you have a link to back this up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux
The best way to handle this, imo, is for the App Store to set a download threshold (say 100 MB), under which the iPhone could download directly, over which the user has to download to their computer for later transfer to the phone.
That limit already exists, and it's 10 MB. Anything up to 10 MB, users will be able to purchase and download directly with their iPhone via the 3G network. Anything larger has to be downloaded via iTunes proper on a computer.
Presumably, a developer could sell an application on the app store, and once the application is on the iPhone, the application itself could download additional data from the application vendor's servers?
When customers will have their own turn at the App Store isn't clear from the information Apple is sending out. The company has officially stated "early July." However, those familiar with the App Store submission process say a 'sell-on date' option included as part of the application submission process currently defaults to July 11th, the same day as the iPhone 3G first goes on sale. Others who've spoken directly to Apple about the launch date have also been told July 11th.
Why is this being tied to iPhone 3G in the article? I guess that gets the most hype on here. Did you forget that iPhone 2.0 firmware is also supposed to come out on July 11th too? If you were releasing iPhone 3G and iPhone 2.0 firmware update on the same day, when would you release the App store?
Yesterday I experienced profound disappointment when I realised that Luxembourg was not on the list of the 70 countries that get the iPhone (http://www.apple.com/iphone/countries/) but on these screenshots there is a Luxembourg App store in the list. That can mean 3 things:
- I can rejoice and expect Luxembourg to join the list soon.
- Apple will have a store for the people with iPod Touches.
- These are fake, no iPhone and no Apps in Luxembourg.
we'll wait and see...
As you said you will be able to access the App Store on an iPod touch using WiFi.
As soon as you get the V2.0 software for the iPod touch this should be working for you.
No need to have the iPhone on sale in your country for this to be available.
Straying a little off-topic here, but isn't the reason traditional stand-alone GPS units have needed such large data sets as you describe because they don't have on-demand access to the network? Something like an iPhone, with it's ability to update data sets on the fly as you travel around wouldn't need to wast 1/4 of your device's memory on the entire country which you'll likely never visit. Instead, it will intelligently download/update regional map information based on your last known current location as it periodically checks in with the mothership. The application would intelligently get data sets large enough to cover a significant area around you allowing for the potential loss of mothership data. It could also have user-defined areas to pre-load or always keep local.
We have to think out of the box if you're on a device that will usually have on-demand access to the net.
I wonder how the new cell-phone enabled GPS devices, such as the DASH, handle this stuff. I think I read in a review that updates are just pushed down to the device over its built in cell radio...and POI data is constantly checked with the always on connection. They still probably keep the entire map dataset in the device, since its memory is competing with other applications but the updates over the air point to future possibilities.
Tired old cliches like "think outside the box" aside, there are real issues that need to be considered. First, if people pay for an application, they probably want to have all of it in their possession. Steve once said that people want to own their music, not rent it. If the GPS software gets updated, will users get cut off unless they pay for the new version? I purchased a Bluetooth GPS receiver and iGuidance mapping software for my Verizon Windows Mobile phone. If I decide to cancel my Verizon service and buy an iPhone, I will still be able to use my Windows Mobile phone as a regular PDA and still have full GPS functionality.
Second, who is going to pay for hosting the GPS map data? Apple or the GPS software developer? Apple's current distribution model covers customers paying a one time fee and downloading an application in its entirety. If users start requiring constant access to additional data but only paid once, Apple or the developer would have to find a way to offset the additional hosting costs. Would customers then have to start paying for a monthly GPS subscription?
And with mobile carriers trying to redefine the meaning of "unlimited data", some people may even end up being charged additional fees on top of their current "unlimited" data plan.
What "notification method that Apple provides"? What if the developer doesn't want the update to be free?
Do you have a link to back this up?
That limit already exists, and it's 10 MB. Anything up to 10 MB, users will be able to purchase and download directly with their iPhone via the 3G network. Anything larger has to be downloaded via iTunes proper on a computer.
Presumably, a developer could sell an application on the app store, and once the application is on the iPhone, the application itself could download additional data from the application vendor's servers?
If you watch the Keynote and the previous Keynote you can see that the iPhone gets a notification from the App Store when an update is available. I guess it will work as follows (as an example) :-
1. You release a new application and sell it for £2.99 and it is for sale on the App Store.
2. You release a bug fix version which you use the replace the original version (after all why would you keep both versions available). Perhaps you can say here if it is free or not, when you submit the update?
3. Existing users get the notification on their iPhones (it is a little red number on the App Store Logo) to tell them that a new version of your app is available, they select it and either get it free or pay the amount you have requested.
4. people who do not have the App already will not get the update notification and therefore will have to go to the version that is for sale as normal.
Specifically read the bit headed "Stay up to date." which says :-
"Buy an application from the App Store and you always have access to the latest version. iPhone tells you whenever an application update is available. When a red number appears on the App Store icon, you know how many updates are ready to download."
Don't know where these came from, but they appear to be totally fake. Not consistent with Apple's usual level of UI polish - incorrect and weirdly spaced fonts, those funny borders, and that crazy "matrix" instead of some kind of dynamic pricing tool that shows you only the values you need to be concerned with. If they are legit (highly doubtful), they're just Photoshop mockups of what the sites/tools MIGHT look like and not screenshots of the actual applications in use.
We get enough people saying stuff is fake when it turns out that the final product is just like that. The new aluminum keyboard, the "fat" nano, the black and white plastic iPhone 3G backs are three that I remember at the moment. Kasper said it's not fake, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Good questions. I know I read somewhere about Apple touting the App Store as good for everybody in part because it would simplify and standardize application updates.
I'm guessing their push service, or something like it, will monitor all customers who have purchased apps and what apps. organizing their iTunes/App Store email with their iPhone ID so when an app is updated you get a bange pushed to your phone indicating that the app has an update.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux
Also, the 2GB file sizes will actually push the limits of a country-wide GPS data set, if you want to store all the map data locally. The annual updates from Garmin, for example, ship on DVDs because of the file size. (You need everything resident on the GPS device if you expect to navigate outside of cell-tower range.) So that's one example where this size limit is relevant.
These are the compressed sizes, but if uncompressed I imagine they would be about 2GB for these semi-continental maps.
PS: Does anyone do S. American maps? TomTom still doesn't have them.
Yesterday I experienced profound disappointment when I realised that Luxembourg was not on the list of the 70 countries that get the iPhone (http://www.apple.com/iphone/countries/) but on these screenshots there is a Luxembourg App store in the list. That can mean 3 things:
- I can rejoice and expect Luxembourg to join the list soon.
- Apple will have a store for the people with iPod Touches.
- These are fake, no iPhone and no Apps in Luxembourg.
we'll wait and see...
Hey, off topic but... what would be some good places to visit in Luxembourg that are not overrun with tourists? I'd like to see the real Luxembourg.
My Tom Tom had the complete set of UK Maps on a 128MB memory card.
I love the UK, but considering all of it would fit comfortably into just the state of California, it's a long way from the same data set size as the US.
I have a question. My wife and I will both be getting the iPhone 3G when it comes out, and I'm planning to try out many of these apps. My question is, if I buy am app that is 9.99 for my iPhone, does my wife have to also pay 9.99 bucks for her own copy on her iPhone? Or could my copy be shared like the music that I buy on iTunes?
I have a question. My wife and I will both be getting the iPhone 3G when it comes out, and I'm planning to try out many of these apps. My question is, if I buy am app that is 9.99 for my iPhone, does my wife have to also pay 9.99 bucks for her own copy on her iPhone? Or could my copy be shared like the music that I buy on iTunes?
If you use different iTunes Store accounts, then definitely not, but if you use the same account to for both iPhones then maybe.
Specifically read the bit headed "Stay up to date." which says :-
"Buy an application from the App Store and you always have access to the latest version. iPhone tells you whenever an application update is available. When a red number appears on the App Store icon, you know how many updates are ready to download."
I have a question. My wife and I will both be getting the iPhone 3G when it comes out, and I'm planning to try out many of these apps. My question is, if I buy am app that is 9.99 for my iPhone, does my wife have to also pay 9.99 bucks for her own copy on her iPhone? Or could my copy be shared like the music that I buy on iTunes?
I would guess it's based on activation. If I understand how that works correctly, you can activate music from two people in the same iTunes library without an issue, which would then sync to your iPhones, just like your music (I'm assuming your music is under two different accounts). I seem to recall reading that you could authorize up to five different accounts on a single iPod/iTunes. But since I only have one, I have no idea.
Since the apps are fairplay "encoded", this should work the same as with music.
BTW, do you think Apple is using Fairplay encoding as proof that the app was bought through the store, and not just loaded manually? Or are they handling that in another manner? Because, as we know, the iPhone is, first and foremost, a phone (which explains why the phone part of it was so completely ignored during the keynote) and so people shouldn't be able to load up any apps they want to it.
I see a couple problems from the start that Apple will face. A lot of developers are going to offer trial versions of their software through the App Store, which you will be able to download for free, then purchase a code from the developer to get the full version. Apple would make nothing off this. The other case is when a developer is offering a free program in order to get the user to purchase some kind of service from them, which would require monthly fees. Apple would also get nothing off this type of program too. I have a feeling a good number of apps are going to fall into these categories, which is going to deprive Apple of a lot of money.
everything will always be priced one cent or one dollar BELOW an even number. it's psychological. even though we SEE $2.99 and SAY three bucks, our instinctual "blink" process sees $2.99 as much cheaper than $3.00, or a car that's $19,999 as much cheaper than $20,000.
everyone set's a price limit that they're not going to go above, and it's always a nice even number - because it's easier on our stupid little brains. nobody thinks "i'm not going to spend $203.23 on a phone", they would say "i'm not spending two hundred bucks on a phone" well good news! $199.99 happens to be lower than $200.
the loss of one cent of revenue is worth the larger perceived price difference.
There's also a practical aspect to it. Retailers don't make any extra money by charging a penny more, because they will be taxed an extra penny at that price point. So rather than give it to the government, they let you keep it by charging a penny less. Pennies were actually worth something a long time ago, but the principle still remains.
Comments
As you have already bought the software the upgrade will just be offered free via the notification method that Apple provides.
What "notification method that Apple provides"? What if the developer doesn't want the update to be free?
Do you have a link to back this up?
The best way to handle this, imo, is for the App Store to set a download threshold (say 100 MB), under which the iPhone could download directly, over which the user has to download to their computer for later transfer to the phone.
That limit already exists, and it's 10 MB. Anything up to 10 MB, users will be able to purchase and download directly with their iPhone via the 3G network. Anything larger has to be downloaded via iTunes proper on a computer.
Presumably, a developer could sell an application on the app store, and once the application is on the iPhone, the application itself could download additional data from the application vendor's servers?
Anything larger has to be downloaded via iTunes proper on a computer.
Or via Wi-Fi, directly on the iPhone or iPod touch.
When customers will have their own turn at the App Store isn't clear from the information Apple is sending out. The company has officially stated "early July." However, those familiar with the App Store submission process say a 'sell-on date' option included as part of the application submission process currently defaults to July 11th, the same day as the iPhone 3G first goes on sale. Others who've spoken directly to Apple about the launch date have also been told July 11th.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Why is this being tied to iPhone 3G in the article? I guess that gets the most hype on here. Did you forget that iPhone 2.0 firmware is also supposed to come out on July 11th too? If you were releasing iPhone 3G and iPhone 2.0 firmware update on the same day, when would you release the App store?
Yesterday I experienced profound disappointment when I realised that Luxembourg was not on the list of the 70 countries that get the iPhone (http://www.apple.com/iphone/countries/) but on these screenshots there is a Luxembourg App store in the list. That can mean 3 things:
- I can rejoice and expect Luxembourg to join the list soon.
- Apple will have a store for the people with iPod Touches.
- These are fake, no iPhone and no Apps in Luxembourg.
we'll wait and see...
As you said you will be able to access the App Store on an iPod touch using WiFi.
As soon as you get the V2.0 software for the iPod touch this should be working for you.
No need to have the iPhone on sale in your country for this to be available.
Straying a little off-topic here, but isn't the reason traditional stand-alone GPS units have needed such large data sets as you describe because they don't have on-demand access to the network? Something like an iPhone, with it's ability to update data sets on the fly as you travel around wouldn't need to wast 1/4 of your device's memory on the entire country which you'll likely never visit. Instead, it will intelligently download/update regional map information based on your last known current location as it periodically checks in with the mothership. The application would intelligently get data sets large enough to cover a significant area around you allowing for the potential loss of mothership data. It could also have user-defined areas to pre-load or always keep local.
We have to think out of the box if you're on a device that will usually have on-demand access to the net.
I wonder how the new cell-phone enabled GPS devices, such as the DASH, handle this stuff. I think I read in a review that updates are just pushed down to the device over its built in cell radio...and POI data is constantly checked with the always on connection. They still probably keep the entire map dataset in the device, since its memory is competing with other applications but the updates over the air point to future possibilities.
Tired old cliches like "think outside the box" aside, there are real issues that need to be considered. First, if people pay for an application, they probably want to have all of it in their possession. Steve once said that people want to own their music, not rent it. If the GPS software gets updated, will users get cut off unless they pay for the new version? I purchased a Bluetooth GPS receiver and iGuidance mapping software for my Verizon Windows Mobile phone. If I decide to cancel my Verizon service and buy an iPhone, I will still be able to use my Windows Mobile phone as a regular PDA and still have full GPS functionality.
Second, who is going to pay for hosting the GPS map data? Apple or the GPS software developer? Apple's current distribution model covers customers paying a one time fee and downloading an application in its entirety. If users start requiring constant access to additional data but only paid once, Apple or the developer would have to find a way to offset the additional hosting costs. Would customers then have to start paying for a monthly GPS subscription?
And with mobile carriers trying to redefine the meaning of "unlimited data", some people may even end up being charged additional fees on top of their current "unlimited" data plan.
I'm dying to see the phone app that people are willing to pay $999.99 for.
Maybe a niche or customized app. Maybe there's a lot of cost in something like a topographical map.
What "notification method that Apple provides"? What if the developer doesn't want the update to be free?
Do you have a link to back this up?
That limit already exists, and it's 10 MB. Anything up to 10 MB, users will be able to purchase and download directly with their iPhone via the 3G network. Anything larger has to be downloaded via iTunes proper on a computer.
Presumably, a developer could sell an application on the app store, and once the application is on the iPhone, the application itself could download additional data from the application vendor's servers?
If you watch the Keynote and the previous Keynote you can see that the iPhone gets a notification from the App Store when an update is available. I guess it will work as follows (as an example) :-
1. You release a new application and sell it for £2.99 and it is for sale on the App Store.
2. You release a bug fix version which you use the replace the original version (after all why would you keep both versions available). Perhaps you can say here if it is free or not, when you submit the update?
3. Existing users get the notification on their iPhones (it is a little red number on the App Store Logo) to tell them that a new version of your app is available, they select it and either get it free or pay the amount you have requested.
4. people who do not have the App already will not get the update notification and therefore will have to go to the version that is for sale as normal.
Read this :-
http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/appstore.html
Specifically read the bit headed "Stay up to date." which says :-
"Buy an application from the App Store and you always have access to the latest version. iPhone tells you whenever an application update is available. When a red number appears on the App Store icon, you know how many updates are ready to download."
Don't know where these came from, but they appear to be totally fake. Not consistent with Apple's usual level of UI polish - incorrect and weirdly spaced fonts, those funny borders, and that crazy "matrix" instead of some kind of dynamic pricing tool that shows you only the values you need to be concerned with. If they are legit (highly doubtful), they're just Photoshop mockups of what the sites/tools MIGHT look like and not screenshots of the actual applications in use.
We get enough people saying stuff is fake when it turns out that the final product is just like that. The new aluminum keyboard, the "fat" nano, the black and white plastic iPhone 3G backs are three that I remember at the moment. Kasper said it's not fake, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Good questions. I know I read somewhere about Apple touting the App Store as good for everybody in part because it would simplify and standardize application updates.
I'm guessing their push service, or something like it, will monitor all customers who have purchased apps and what apps. organizing their iTunes/App Store email with their iPhone ID so when an app is updated you get a bange pushed to your phone indicating that the app has an update.
Also, the 2GB file sizes will actually push the limits of a country-wide GPS data set, if you want to store all the map data locally. The annual updates from Garmin, for example, ship on DVDs because of the file size. (You need everything resident on the GPS device if you expect to navigate outside of cell-tower range.) So that's one example where this size limit is relevant.
These are the compressed sizes, but if uncompressed I imagine they would be about 2GB for these semi-continental maps.
PS: Does anyone do S. American maps? TomTom still doesn't have them.
Yesterday I experienced profound disappointment when I realised that Luxembourg was not on the list of the 70 countries that get the iPhone (http://www.apple.com/iphone/countries/) but on these screenshots there is a Luxembourg App store in the list. That can mean 3 things:
- I can rejoice and expect Luxembourg to join the list soon.
- Apple will have a store for the people with iPod Touches.
- These are fake, no iPhone and no Apps in Luxembourg.
we'll wait and see...
Hey, off topic but... what would be some good places to visit in Luxembourg that are not overrun with tourists? I'd like to see the real Luxembourg.
My Tom Tom had the complete set of UK Maps on a 128MB memory card.
I love the UK, but considering all of it would fit comfortably into just the state of California, it's a long way from the same data set size as the US.
Hey, off topic but... what would be some good places to visit in Luxembourg that are not overrun with tourists? I'd like to see the real Luxembourg.
Rent a car and see it all in a day. It's only 900sq/miles or 30x30miles square.
Yesterday I experienced profound disappointment when I realised that Luxembourg was not on the list
Experience some profound joy!
Tiny Luxembourg brings iPhone country count to 75
I have a question. My wife and I will both be getting the iPhone 3G when it comes out, and I'm planning to try out many of these apps. My question is, if I buy am app that is 9.99 for my iPhone, does my wife have to also pay 9.99 bucks for her own copy on her iPhone? Or could my copy be shared like the music that I buy on iTunes?
If you use different iTunes Store accounts, then definitely not, but if you use the same account to for both iPhones then maybe.
Read this :-
http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/appstore.html
Specifically read the bit headed "Stay up to date." which says :-
"Buy an application from the App Store and you always have access to the latest version. iPhone tells you whenever an application update is available. When a red number appears on the App Store icon, you know how many updates are ready to download."
Thanks for this.
I have a question. My wife and I will both be getting the iPhone 3G when it comes out, and I'm planning to try out many of these apps. My question is, if I buy am app that is 9.99 for my iPhone, does my wife have to also pay 9.99 bucks for her own copy on her iPhone? Or could my copy be shared like the music that I buy on iTunes?
I would guess it's based on activation. If I understand how that works correctly, you can activate music from two people in the same iTunes library without an issue, which would then sync to your iPhones, just like your music (I'm assuming your music is under two different accounts). I seem to recall reading that you could authorize up to five different accounts on a single iPod/iTunes. But since I only have one, I have no idea.
Since the apps are fairplay "encoded", this should work the same as with music.
BTW, do you think Apple is using Fairplay encoding as proof that the app was bought through the store, and not just loaded manually? Or are they handling that in another manner? Because, as we know, the iPhone is, first and foremost, a phone (which explains why the phone part of it was so completely ignored during the keynote) and so people shouldn't be able to load up any apps they want to it.
everything will always be priced one cent or one dollar BELOW an even number. it's psychological. even though we SEE $2.99 and SAY three bucks, our instinctual "blink" process sees $2.99 as much cheaper than $3.00, or a car that's $19,999 as much cheaper than $20,000.
everyone set's a price limit that they're not going to go above, and it's always a nice even number - because it's easier on our stupid little brains. nobody thinks "i'm not going to spend $203.23 on a phone", they would say "i'm not spending two hundred bucks on a phone" well good news! $199.99 happens to be lower than $200.
the loss of one cent of revenue is worth the larger perceived price difference.
There's also a practical aspect to it. Retailers don't make any extra money by charging a penny more, because they will be taxed an extra penny at that price point. So rather than give it to the government, they let you keep it by charging a penny less. Pennies were actually worth something a long time ago, but the principle still remains.